OP
OP
Stuart444

Stuart444

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,074
==== DAY 2 VOTES ====
Day Start

Verelios (1 votes)
Fantomas - #489

Not voting: turmoil7, Stantastic, Ketkat, Zippedpinhead, Maolfunction, Soneji, Verelios, 언이라브, TheChuggernaut

Post Counts:
Fantomas: 5 Verelios: 3 TheChuggernaut: 3 언이라브: 1

Current Countdown:
38tik6id1v


Click here to go to the Vote Tool!
 

브라이언

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
3,174
I do disagree with your reasoning as well, yes. Nothing about those posts from Turmoil felt scummy to me, it seemed to me like you were prepping for a Turmoil vote for a while, and then went through with it, it felt like a forced progression and not very natural to me.
Also no offence Vere, I'm not targeting you rn or anything but doesn't you staying alive for Day 2 increase your chances of being scum considering you've always got lynched off or something has happened in previous games? Might be too much of a stretch.
 
Oct 25, 2017
23,242
Yeah, I would maybe replace Ket with Mao though. I want to get some more out of Mao today hopefully, and my current view of how Ket was playing yesterday puts her more on the "why would Scum stick out their neck and be this brazen on D1" line of thinking personally. Any thoughts on that?

I might have to go reread her and see tbh. I wouldn't mind killing Mao at some point, but I would rather not today.

I'll just hop on the Vere train with you.

Vote: Verelios
 
Oct 25, 2017
23,242
Also no offence Vere, I'm not targeting you rn or anything but doesn't you staying alive for Day 2 increase your chances of being scum considering you've always got lynched off or something has happened in previous games? Might be too much of a stretch.

It's usually him just being night killed lol. And one time he was scum
 

Verelios

Member
Oct 26, 2017
14,879
I do disagree with your reasoning as well, yes. Nothing about those posts from Turmoil felt scummy to me, it seemed to me like you were prepping for a Turmoil vote for a while, and then went through with it, it felt like a forced progression and not very natural to me.
In what way? From what I saw Turmoil hadn't done anything of value, so from what you're saying that would be the wrong.
 

Verelios

Member
Oct 26, 2017
14,879
Also no offence Vere, I'm not targeting you rn or anything but doesn't you staying alive for Day 2 increase your chances of being scum considering you've always got lynched off or something has happened in previous games? Might be too much of a stretch.
I do have bad luck getting shot early on. Otherwise I usually live pretty long, ha.
 

Fanto

Is this tag ok?
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,863
In what way? From what I saw Turmoil hadn't done anything of value, so from what you're saying that would be the wrong.
Turmoil did plenty of value in my eyes. He was throwing his vote around, trying not to fall for low hanging fruit, looking to get wagons started. Those are all things we would want to see on D1, no? I personally enjoy having voting data to look back on and see how wagons were formed, when/if they fell apart, who moved votes where and when, etc.
 

브라이언

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
3,174
Why is Chugg not scum in your eyes?

Chugg was suspicious and voted for Reki a few pages back, I decided if Reki died or if Chugg died one of the other would be innocent considering how Chugg was coherently explaining his reasoning for voting for him. I only voted for Chugg because I didn't have any other suspects at the time and he was memeing around even though he told others not to, but I wasn't sure how he played considering it's my first time playing with him.
 

Verelios

Member
Oct 26, 2017
14,879
Turmoil did plenty of value in my eyes. He was throwing his vote around, trying not to fall for low hanging fruit, looking to get wagons started. Those are all things we would want to see on D1, no? I personally enjoy having voting data to look back on and see how wagons were formed, when/if they fell apart, who moved votes where and when, etc.
Literally what. I don't even think you believe that. Turmoil basically did busywork all day yesterday and didn't care about the response. In a single page he changed votes twice, and then started spectating.

What posts, exactly, are you saying Turmoil did yesterday.
 

Fanto

Is this tag ok?
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,863
Literally what. I don't even think you believe that. Turmoil basically did busywork all day yesterday and didn't care about the response. In a single page he changed votes twice, and then started spectating.

What posts, exactly, are you saying Turmoil did yesterday.
What's wrong with changing votes when most people only have one or two votes on them at the most?

If you want some quotes just looking back quick, posts like these from Turmoil towards EoD showed me that he was observing the game and trying to find Town and Scum:
A lot of people say chuggs may not be the correct lunch but I don't see many votes settling for an alternative or creating a new one

Maybe because the folks with one vote are scum??

VOTE:Alexem
I got that no one is moving their votes so they were happy with the situation
Chuggs and fanto defending each other so strongly is frankly weird, I don't think they are scummates here but I do think one of them is using the other for a easy strong town read
Dang Kets going off-wagon instead of self defense against a wagon feels godamned townie

OTOH I fall for this every-single-time

VOTE:Fantomas
He's speculating about how the day was going, where votes were being placed, how people were placing votes and when, and then shifting his vote around accordingly. What is it about Turmoil's play that you considered to be busy work? Asking people if they were going to vote?
 
Oct 25, 2017
23,242
Turmoil doing some sketch shit is exactly why I think he's town.

Let's pretend Turmoil is scum. He hopped on a train for Vere 10 minutes before the day ended for what reason exactly? To protect townie Exodus? Why? There's no reason to draw attention to yourself like that if you're scum
 

Verelios

Member
Oct 26, 2017
14,879
What's wrong with changing votes when most people only have one or two votes on them at the most?

If you want some quotes just looking back quick, posts like these from Turmoil towards EoD showed me that he was observing the game and trying to find Town and Scum:




He's speculating about how the day was going, where votes were being placed, how people were placing votes and when, and then shifting his vote around accordingly. What is it about Turmoil's play that you considered to be busy work? Asking people if they were going to vote?
That seems exactly like busywork. What about those series of posts seem townie to you? The general observations of the day? The vote switching without wanting a reaction? And I have no idea where you got that his votes were being shifted accordingly. Accordingly to what?
 

Zippedpinhead

Fallen Guardian
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,817
I'm 99% sure that alexem didn't pull the trigger on Reki, that move doesn't line up right in my head.

im not sure who did either kill, but alexem killing reki I can't square in my head.
 

Zippedpinhead

Fallen Guardian
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,817
I guess to weigh in on verelios:
I still like the verelios votes, especially in such a small game. Notready to throw mine down yet though.
 

Fanto

Is this tag ok?
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,863
That seems exactly like busywork. What about those series of posts seem townie to you? The general observations of the day? The vote switching without wanting a reaction? And I have no idea where you got that his votes were being shifted accordingly. Accordingly to what?
According to what he was saying?

I feel like I'm being forced to play defense for Turmoil right now, when really this is about how I felt about your vote on him. I pointed out that you were winding up to go there for a while, ignoring other people in the room, not giving thoughts on the top wagons. You didn't even mention Exodus yesterday even after he became the top choice, you just went with your Turmoil vote and called it good. That's what sticks out to me as being odd behavior.
 

turmoil7

Community Resettler - Shinra Employee
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,186
Let's pretend Turmoil is scum. He hopped on a train for Vere 10 minutes before the day ended for what reason exactly? To protect townie Exodus? Why? There's no reason to draw attention to yourself like that if you're scum
There is no reason to think this is necessarily townie, specially if Vere turns out to be townie

TvT allows scum to take any position

Fantomas was who chosed Vere as wagon there(and Zipped and me jumped), that's something to point out, although rn I feel Fanto is townie to me

Who can be scum there if Vere is town? I think I would lean Zipped over Fanto
 

Ketkat

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,727
Fanto, Zipped, and Turmoil are probably all town.

There is no reason for scum to pull that shit especially because we know Exodus was town

Yeah, I agree with Turmoil on this one. None of these people should be considered town based on that one train that developed. If both Verelios and Exodus are town, then it could have just been for fun or to sow chaos or any other number of things.
 

Verelios

Member
Oct 26, 2017
14,879
According to what he was saying?

I feel like I'm being forced to play defense for Turmoil right now, when really this is about how I felt about your vote on him. I pointed out that you were winding up to go there for a while, ignoring other people in the room, not giving thoughts on the top wagons. You didn't even mention Exodus yesterday even after he became the top choice, you just went with your Turmoil vote and called it good. That's what sticks out to me as being odd behavior.
Garbage, this entire conversation was about your read list so of course you need to defend it. As for my vote, my posts happened in a short window of time so what was pre-meditated? And I told the thread I'd be busy that day if you remember, it was just more so than I thought. I didn't expect to miss day end but I did.
 

Fanto

Is this tag ok?
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,863
Who can be scum there if Vere is town?
Zipped is a good possibility in that scenario.

Any thoughts on the only other remaining Exodus voter besides yourself, which woiuld be Mao? That's one thing that stuck out to me when I saw that Alexem and Reki got killed.

The other votes that stick out to me are Stan's vote on Chugg, and then I guess Soneji's vote on Mao, but that one felt like it had a pretty natural progression since he had mentioned Mao earlier and then explained how his thoughts on myself and you changed over the course of the day.

Vere is still my top Scum suspect coming into today though.
Garbage, this entire conversation was about your read list so of course you need to defend it. As for my vote, my posts happened in a short window of time so what was pre-meditated? And I told the thread I'd be busy that day if you remember, it was just more so than I thought. I didn't expect to miss day end but I did.
Your first post where you questioned Turmoil about doing busy work was around 6 hours before EoD, with your vote on him coming in about 40 minutes before EoD, that's not what I would call a short window of time.
 

Fanto

Is this tag ok?
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,863
Verelios, who are you looking at here today as possible Scum? You still think Turmoil is likely? Any other reads or thoughts to share?
 

Verelios

Member
Oct 26, 2017
14,879
Zipped is a good possibility in that scenario.

Any thoughts on the only other remaining Exodus voter besides yourself, which woiuld be Mao? That's one thing that stuck out to me when I saw that Alexem and Reki got killed.

The other votes that stick out to me are Stan's vote on Chugg, and then I guess Soneji's vote on Mao, but that one felt like it had a pretty natural progression since he had mentioned Mao earlier and then explained how his thoughts on myself and you changed over the course of the day.

Vere is still my top Scum suspect coming into today though.

Your first post where you questioned Turmoil about doing busy work was around 6 hours before EoD, with your vote on him coming in about 40 minutes before EoD, that's not what I would call a short window of time.
Now you're being purposefully disingenuous, because if you had time to read the time stamp, you had time to read the post. When I first got into the thread I asked turmoil why he wasn't going after his prod votes. Then at 2-3 pm EST, I made my post and votes because he didn't change his approach at all. That's a short window of time.
 

Fanto

Is this tag ok?
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,863
I would like to see read lists from anyone else as well, or vote analysis, or any kinds of opinions/thoughts on how D1 went down in hindsight, I don't mean to take up all the room here with my own reads, I do want to talk to others about theirs as well.
 

Fanto

Is this tag ok?
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,863
Now you're being purposefully disingenuous, because if you had time to read the time stamp, you had time to read the post. When I first got into the thread I asked turmoil why he wasn't going after his prod votes. Then at 2-3 pm EST, I made my post and votes because he didn't change his approach at all. That's a short window of time.
Then at the very least we are not seeing eye to eye on this topic, I suppose that's all I can say. I see it the way I've explained, you have a different explanation.

Can you tell me why you didn't comment on any of the other top wagons on D1? Not a word about Exodus for example?
 

Fanto

Is this tag ok?
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,863
I'm going to take a break here to play some more Death Stranding for a bit. Still hoping to see some other reads/opinions put down, feel free to ask me anything about my own and I'll get back to you.
 

turmoil7

Community Resettler - Shinra Employee
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,186
Any thoughts on the only other remaining Exodus voter besides yourself, which woiuld be Mao? That's one thing that stuck out to me when I saw that Alexem and Reki got killed.
That's a hard read for me, my guts read is that maol is town, but then he is the only alive player from a townie lunch and my vote analysis tool throws red flags everywhere. I have to go back to see his positions on alternatives and if he was open to them
 

turmoil7

Community Resettler - Shinra Employee
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,186
Can you tell me why you didn't comment on any of the other top wagons on D1? Not a word about Exodus for example?
This my problem with Vere too

He comes, throws a vote at me when I was at no risk whatsoever instead of jumping on wagon

It feels like if he was trying to secure town went to sleep with exodus lunched
 

turmoil7

Community Resettler - Shinra Employee
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,186
This my problem with Vere too

He comes, throws a vote at me when I was at no risk whatsoever instead of jumping on wagon

It feels like if he was trying to secure town went to sleep with exodus lunched
Without actually taking a stand and voting for him
 

Zippedpinhead

Fallen Guardian
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,817
Zipped is a good possibility in that scenario.

Any thoughts on the only other remaining Exodus voter besides yourself, which woiuld be Mao? That's one thing that stuck out to me when I saw that Alexem and Reki got killed.

The other votes that stick out to me are Stan's vote on Chugg, and then I guess Soneji's vote on Mao, but that one felt like it had a pretty natural progression since he had mentioned Mao earlier and then explained how his thoughts on myself and you changed over the course of the day.

Vere is still my top Scum suspect coming into today though.

Your first post where you questioned Turmoil about doing busy work was around 6 hours before EoD, with your vote on him coming in about 40 minutes before EoD, that's not what I would call a short window of time.

hem. All three of us started the verelios Switch within 1 minute of each other, And look at the turn of events. Me and you came up with vere at the same time


I could see myself switching to Vere if we want to get wild.
He feels kind of like he did on D1 in HvV2 when he was Scum, is my meta reasoning with no time to explain.
where did verelios go? Are they excused or on a timezone that means they aren't here at day end?
its like you read my mind...
 

Verelios

Member
Oct 26, 2017
14,879
Verelios, who are you looking at here today as possible Scum? You still think Turmoil is likely? Any other reads or thoughts to share?
To be honest, I don't think scum turmoil would jump on my train with what could be seen as an OMGUS vote yesterday. It's bad optics.

And while I know this is going to come across as OMGUS myself, if we're saying who has the possibility of being scum, I'd put you and Zipped together as an either/or package.

Your defense of Chuggs and Turmoil does seem like a pocket attempt, and while you're usually reaching all over the place, you don't usually ignore actual facts. Like when Chuggs was being weird, but it took you over a series of posts to admit so while batting away everyone saying otherwise. That's odd.

As for Zipped, it's how he was pushing the safe lunch of Exo which, fair to say Sparks also wanted, and then chose the even more safe lunch of following onto a bandwagon with Fanto. I can think of three excuses off the top of my head for when I or Exo flipped town, ranging from D1 stats, subbed in late and didn't read.
 

Verelios

Member
Oct 26, 2017
14,879
Then at the very least we are not seeing eye to eye on this topic, I suppose that's all I can say. I see it the way I've explained, you have a different explanation.

Can you tell me why you didn't comment on any of the other top wagons on D1? Not a word about Exodus for example?
I didn't feel like they were a good lunch just based off of activity but I also didn't feel like taking the time to defend them. I had hoped to make a case for Turmoil but I wasn't able to make it.
 

Verelios

Member
Oct 26, 2017
14,879
This my problem with Vere too

He comes, throws a vote at me when I was at no risk whatsoever instead of jumping on wagon

It feels like if he was trying to secure town went to sleep with exodus lunched
That's weird, how would that go with a 3-2-2 vote train? Unless you're saying that all three of top contenders are town.
 

Zippedpinhead

Fallen Guardian
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,817
we have what, 10 people left?

i haven't played mini mafia before, are we looking at two or three scum buddies/lassies?
 

turmoil7

Community Resettler - Shinra Employee
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,186
That's weird, how would that go with a 3-2-2 vote train? Unless you're saying that all three of top contenders are town.
All wagons but exodus' felt lethargic for a long time, EoD1 felt like a hopeless affair for anything but Exodus until your train

I liked your Sparks/Zipped observation, I think I have to reread that slot

Chuggs and Fanto scumming together on broad daylight unnerves me a little too, but maybe they are to meta and want to work together for the time being and see how things go
 

turmoil7

Community Resettler - Shinra Employee
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,186
What I thought remarkable of Sparks/Zipped D1

Sparks:

-shitposts
-prods fantomas, stan, says maol tunnels hard, not sure if that counts as a scum read lol
-boruto:scum, taco trucks:town
-further interaction with maol(massclaim jokes back and forth)
-follows me voting for Chuggs
-finds interesting no one defends Chuggs, Fantomas takes the torch and defends Chuggs, immediately unvotes Chuggs
-prods exodus

When he subs out everyone had around one vote, generally low stakes in play

Here comes Zipped
When he subs in:
Player with two votes on: Kets, Fanto, Chuggs
With one vote on: Exodus, Alexem, Soneji

(he was still catching up while interacting)

-asks me why I prod vote everyone
-Suggests to maol he should vote for Soneji
-Comes back 18 minutes before day end and seems open to every option
- Says exodus is the safe d1 lunch, Kets going off wagon could be town or meta play, Votes Exodus
-Says we can go crazy if we want
-Almost at the same time than Fanto thinks of going after Vere
-The three of us vote for Vere

Having a read on them is hard, my meta read is that Sparks would avoid strong intractions with scummates if he is scum. OTOH Zipped can go with any situation. One observation here: He didn't vote for Kets and didn't mention votinf for Chuggs when he did vote for exodus

If Zipped is scum maybe Kets and/or Chuggs are partners? Chuggs less likely due to Sparks vote for him. Obviously Vere would be very likely town in a scum zipped world
 

turmoil7

Community Resettler - Shinra Employee
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,186
Serial killer just seems weird for a game of this size, but if does seem weird that Alex killed Reki
Google the C9++ setup this game is, there is always a 50% of getting a SK in the game

And I agree, seems out of character for Alexem to shot on N1 but it's not worth following now as it could had been him YOLOing anyways
 

Fanto

Is this tag ok?
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,863
To be honest, I don't think scum turmoil would jump on my train with what could be seen as an OMGUS vote yesterday. It's bad optics.

And while I know this is going to come across as OMGUS myself, if we're saying who has the possibility of being scum, I'd put you and Zipped together as an either/or package.

Your defense of Chuggs and Turmoil does seem like a pocket attempt, and while you're usually reaching all over the place, you don't usually ignore actual facts. Like when Chuggs was being weird, but it took you over a series of posts to admit so while batting away everyone saying otherwise. That's odd.

As for Zipped, it's how he was pushing the safe lunch of Exo which, fair to say Sparks also wanted, and then chose the even more safe lunch of following onto a bandwagon with Fanto. I can think of three excuses off the top of my head for when I or Exo flipped town, ranging from D1 stats, subbed in late and didn't read.
Call it a defense, whatever, I see them as my biggest Town leans here. You seem to agree that Turmoil seems Townie now, where are your thoughts on Chugg then?

Other than Zipped and myself, you don't have any one else you're looking at today? Thoughts on Mao? Stan?
I didn't feel like they were a good lunch just based off of activity but I also didn't feel like taking the time to defend them. I had hoped to make a case for Turmoil but I wasn't able to make it.
It wasn't just based off of activity though, the content of the posts was cited in all of the votes except for Zipped's. As for "not taking the time to defend them", sorry but that just sounds Scummy to me lol. Like, if the player with the most votes going into EoD is someone who I think isn't a good idea to lunch, there is no way I don't comment on them at all when I vote somewhere else. Also, why not pick a different wagon to try to ensure this person who you think is a bad lunch does not get lunched rather than throwing your vote to the side and not taking any stance on the outcome of the day? How am I supposed to read this other than being at least kind of Scummy?
 

Stantastic

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,493
So i agree with the point that i wouldnt rush to town confirm those on tge late vere train, theres nothing stopping scum ftom being opportunistic at that kind of scenario,
and while its uncommon for scum to stick thier head out like that its by no means unheard if, wifoms a hell of a drug.

But on that note i am really the only one finding so much around chuggs so weird?
Thr reki thing wasnt much sure, but reki and fanto catapaulting themselves ti his ardent defense with what felt like a weaker defense than justifued thier certainty, fanto aparently scum reading me for it even, and now he immediately town reads the vere push despite the obvious counter argument to it.
Like, i dont even scum read any of this, we know reki is town now so that certainly helps, but its not adding up to me at all. And no ones commenting on it?
Is it just me, confirmation bias? Am i just nuts?
Is thus whole game actually just an excessively elaborate prank played on me as payback for angrily/drunkenly shitting up every game im in?

Oh thats it isnt it! Your all in on it! Im the only sane one here!


Or y'know im just reading to much into it.
Could be that to.
 

Stantastic

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,493
I feel like that bojack horseman joke where bojacks the only one that recognises the two kids in a trench coat, and like its not a bad thing its just confusing that everyone else doesnt see it
 

Stantastic

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,493
It probably doesnt help that im pretty damn hungover today.

Why do people drink absinthe? It tastes like cough medicine and mouthwash, looks like it to.
 

turmoil7

Community Resettler - Shinra Employee
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,186
Never had that one, will make sure to never have it