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Chettlar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,604
I think that had Forza Horizon 2 been developed soley for the Xbox One, it could have looked/performed better.

Right but I'm just saying it doesn't mean Scarlett won't be powerful. We could get a decent looking game on Xbox One at 900p60 and 4K60 and then way better textures, particals, better detail models etc. on Scarlett. Heck maybe an unlocked framerate with freesync/hdmi 2.1 that goes above 60 at 4K.

Besides, a lot of early gen games often look like last gen games upressed.
 

Hudsoniscool

Banned
Jun 5, 2018
1,495
I'm surprised mutant year zero isn't getting more attention. It's made by a company in Sweden Called The Bearded Ladies Consulting. LinkedIn says they are only 15 people. Anyway the game comes out dec 4th launching day one on gamepass. It looks really good. I got my eye on this game and the developer as well.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OiMlqDn-NFI
Here's a video.
 

Chettlar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,604
If memory serves, the 360 build was from a different developer - Sumo Digital, I believe.

Also worth noting that the XB1 version has more features.

Also worth noting that FH2 looks arguably worse than FH1 on 360 due to being a paired down port from XB1 rather than ground up for the 360. I've been playing through the 360 version after I 2000/2000G'd the Xbox one version a couple years ago, just for fun and achievements. The 360 version looks almost nothing like the One version. I know it's been a couple years, but I can only recognize certain land marks by large specific structures because it looks very different.

Thing is, I imagine it could still technically have been crossplay if it weren't for some online and weather and other features on the One.
 

Redesigned83

Member
Jul 9, 2018
761
I am not a huge fan of Raymond, but even if I was, I don't think it makes a ton of sense. It's much, much more difficult and expensive to create a new studio from scratch than it is to acquire one. Microsoft is much better off acquiring existing studios with dynamic leadership in place.

An acquired studio can hit the ground running, but starting a new studio could take up to 18 months to get everything in place and then the first project will likely take longer because there is no processes or workflows in place. I firmly expect The Initiative's first game is at least four more years out.
Under most circumstances I would agree, but with talent like Raymond, Staten and Casey (because he was mentioned) I think it's worth it to pursue that avenue if those individuals are interested. You're better having them represent your 1st party as opposed to your competitors.
 

Kasey

Member
Nov 1, 2017
10,822
Boise
Y'all think the Flood is coming back for Infinite? I mean we had Flood DLC in HW2, and the Flood infested MCC. I would like to see what 343i does with them (in a FPS title).

Covenant+Brutes+Prometheans+Flood+whatever dangerous wildlife on the Halo and we've got quite an enemy selection for Infinite.
 

Chettlar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,604
100% the flood are coming back. So are the Brutes. They teased it way too much with Halo Wars. I think there's a reason they brought those up.

You know... that's honestly what they should do. Ditch the prometheans. Reinvent the flood completely. Refine Brutes. I think there's a lot they could do there.
 

SpinierBlakeD

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt account
Banned
Oct 28, 2018
1,353
Compare an R7 260 to an RX 580 and say it's not a huge leap.
I don't know what that means. I just use the eye test. SD to HD, that's a huge leap. 30 fps to 60 is what I would qualify as a minor upgrade. I find it funny in Digital Foundry videos when they slow the footage down to 25% speed, zoom in like 200% and count the pixels on a shadow off in the distance then say it's a huge difference. If I look at two side by side screenshots of a game running on different hardware and can't tell which is which inside of 5 seconds, I wouldn't call it a big difference.
 

SpinierBlakeD

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt account
Banned
Oct 28, 2018
1,353
Right but I'm just saying it doesn't mean Scarlett won't be powerful. We could get a decent looking game on Xbox One at 900p60 and 4K60 and then way better textures, particals, better detail models etc. on Scarlett. Heck maybe an unlocked framerate with freesync/hdmi 2.1 that goes above 60 at 4K.

Besides, a lot of early gen games often look like last gen games upressed.
True true
 

OneBadMutha

Member
Nov 2, 2017
6,059
I'm surprised mutant year zero isn't getting more attention. It's made by a company in Sweden Called The Bearded Ladies Consulting. LinkedIn says they are only 15 people. Anyway the game comes out dec 4th launching day one on gamepass. It looks really good. I got my eye on this game and the developer as well.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OiMlqDn-NFI
Here's a video.

I'm very much looking forward to it. I'm a big fan of Xcom 2. Also a fan of Mutant Year Zero's weirdness.
 

Hudsoniscool

Banned
Jun 5, 2018
1,495
100% the flood are coming back. So are the Brutes. They teased it way too much with Halo Wars. I think there's a reason they brought those up.

You know... that's honestly what they should do. Ditch the prometheans. Reinvent the flood completely. Refine Brutes. I think there's a lot they could do there.
Agree 100%. Also atriox is the best villain halo has ever had so it would be a travesty to not have him go head to head against cheif.
 

ContraWars

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,517
Canada
I don't know what that means. I just use the eye test. SD to HD, that's a huge leap. 30 fps to 60 is what I would qualify as a minor upgrade. I find it funny in Digital Foundry videos when they slow the footage down to 25% speed, zoom in like 200% and count the pixels on a shadow off in the distance then say it's a huge difference. If I look at two side by side screenshots of a game running on different hardware and can't tell which is which inside of 5 seconds, I wouldn't call it a big difference.

The 580 based Scorpio super samples everything and gives you a smoother, higher quality 1080p image than older One and One S on standard HDTVs limited to 1080p. It also throws 4K without choking to death, and would be "VR ready" for the big PC headsets, Rift and Vive, if Microsoft would allow or enable it.

It is a big difference. Screenshot comparison threads already exist to show this.
 

Hawk269

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,053
The "X" is such a good machine that I would love a "X" Elite with a Ryzen CPU. I think the 6tf, memory, memory bandwidth that they put into the unit is pretty amazing. If they paired a Ryzen CPU and made and Elite I think we would be seeing some games perform extremely well.
 

Trup1aya

Literally a train safety expert
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,411
An OG Xbox couldn't run Halo 3 or Mass Effect. If I can play Scarlett games on my Xbox One without melting the machine the paste, I think the Scarlett will be underpowered.

This is a bad take. If the engine is flexible, and the game systems scalable, then it can be a solid cross Gen title. it probably won't come close to maxing out what Scarlet is capable of, though.
 

Rami Seb

Banned
Sep 28, 2018
886
Well, we shall see. If it happens or not, doesn't matter to me... I just know what he has said numerous times and it really doesn't matter now because he isn't in financial trouble from what we know and they aren't getting bought anytime soon.

The flawed promise is you stating "Yeah, they most likely will" be acquired when there is not the tiniest bit of evidence that the studio even wants to be acquired. At best, you think they will.

Most likely doesn't mean that they for sure 100% will which is what I've said numerous times, on the other hand what you stated ruled it out 100%

The only thing I ever implied was that a developer saying they love their independence means jack shit because we've heard it numerous times from similar developers. Everyone loves their independence until it comes time to foot the bills and keep the lights on.

Obsidian and InXile could of had similar deals with MS where they wouldn't get bought out but that they'd get their games 100% bankrolled

Also Maher did say that Ori and the Blind Forest did have some strain with the budget/resources at E3.
 

OneBadMutha

Member
Nov 2, 2017
6,059
This is a bad take. If the engine is flexible, and the game systems scalable, then it can be a solid cross Gen title. it probably won't come close to maxing out what Scarlet is capable of, though.

This! It will take 3 years minimum before anything gets close to maxing either platform. Anything that releases in the first 2 years of a new generation spent the majority of its development on the previous gen tech.

Gamers today also grossly underrating how much more scalable game engines are now and overrate the impact of new tech. We're at a point of diminishing returns. That GTA3 and Halo CE "wow" factor moving to PS2 and OG Xbox or Gears of War and Oblivion "wow" factor on the 360 are a thing of the past. Quadruple the power doesn't get us to game changing thresholds like it used to.
 

OneBadMutha

Member
Nov 2, 2017
6,059
I doubt it. Unreal Engine seems to be used for most of the 1st party.
The last thing I was is MS to push an engine on its devs like EA did with Frostbite..... that was terrible.

Frostbite is pretty but not versatile. Unreal is versatile. Let's not forget that Unreal engine was originally shown off with Unreal Tournament.

I've long not understood why Microsoft hasn't invested in a flexible state of the art game engine. They have far more resources than Epic. They should beat the shit out of Unreal and Unity. Sony has proprietary stuff that is kicking ass. Software and dev tools should be Microsoft's wheelhouse.

All this debate about who's hardware will be slightly more powerful next gen and as someone who works in technology who talks to people way smarter than me and most people in this forum...the revolution in what developers put out in the next 5 to 10 years won't be due to local hardware advances. It'll be due to advances in tools for developers.

Microsoft should have a leg up on Epic due to their core business investing so heavily in AI and machine learning. They own Havok. They should be building a monster tool warehouse for their developers. I have suspicions they are.
 

Chettlar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,604
I don't know what that means. I just use the eye test. SD to HD, that's a huge leap. 30 fps to 60 is what I would qualify as a minor upgrade. I find it funny in Digital Foundry videos when they slow the footage down to 25% speed, zoom in like 200% and count the pixels on a shadow off in the distance then say it's a huge difference. If I look at two side by side screenshots of a game running on different hardware and can't tell which is which inside of 5 seconds, I wouldn't call it a big difference.

30 to 60 is so objectively not a minor upgrade I don't know where to begin. It is so much more difficult and requires significantly more power to do.

Frostbite is pretty but not versatile. Unreal is versatile. Let's not forget that Unreal engine was originally shown off with Unreal Tournament.

I've long not understood why Microsoft hasn't invested in a flexible state of the art game engine. They have far more resources than Epic. They should beat the shit out of Unreal and Unity. Sony has proprietary stuff that is kicking ass. Software and dev tools should be Microsoft's wheelhouse.

All this debate about who's hardware will be slightly more powerful next gen and as someone who works in technology who talks to people way smarter than me and most people in this forum...the revolution in what developers put out in the next 5 to 10 years won't be due to local hardware advances. It'll be due to advances in tools for developers.

Microsoft should have a leg up on Epic due to their core business investing so heavily in AI and machine learning. They own Havok. They should be building a monster tool warehouse for their developers. I have suspicions they are.

I agree. Especially when they make DX12. It's odd.
 

Ebtesam

Self-Requested Ban
Member
Apr 1, 2018
4,638
Next-Xbox might have SSD acoourding to list jop

April of 2018, IGN posted a similar job listing for a Senior Electrical Engineer. At the time, the Xbox team was looking for an engineer experienced with DDR3, DDR5 and DRAM technologies.

Now there're New Jop Post looking to expert in SSD as well as HDD



and there's also Jop for Next-Gen Accessories

The Senior Electrical Engineer job post invites candidates to "Come be part of what's next." Candidates selected for this role will be working on upcoming Xbox Accessories and will "lead the electrical development of our next generation accessories.

Full artical here
 

Chettlar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,604
Please be SSD man. Please.

Also, ffs, let me replace the hard drive. I hate having to ad a USB hard drive. So tacky.
 

Chettlar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,604

This is an NVMe SSD:

uk-960-evo-nvme-m-2-ssd-mz-v6e1t0bw-front-61519750


Here is an NVMe drive next to your standard SATA SSD. Main difference is mainly size lol, but also look at the connector:

450_x_241_1100_ssd.png


"SATA" is the normal interface that connects hard drives to computers. They made some upgrades to it to make use of the speed of SSDs, and make no mistake, normal SATA SSDs are very fast. But NVMe are faster, and smaller, and needed a new connector, to make things simple.

NVMes are obviously more expensive, but an option would be really cool to have I agree. Just a slot for it, if people wanted to.

Regardless, some how, some way, I want an option to upgrade internal storage.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,595
This is an NVMe SSD:

uk-960-evo-nvme-m-2-ssd-mz-v6e1t0bw-front-61519750


Here is an NVMe drive next to your standard SATA SSD. Main difference is mainly size lol, but also look at the connector:

450_x_241_1100_ssd.png


"SATA" is the normal interface that connects hard drives to computers. They made some upgrades to it to make use of the speed of SSDs, and make no mistake, normal SATA SSDs are very fast. But NVMe are faster, and smaller, and needed a new connector, to make things simple.

NVMes are obviously more expensive, but an option would be really cool to have I agree. Just a slot for it, if people wanted to.

Regardless, some how, some way, I want an option to upgrade internal storage.

giphy.gif


Like 360 or Mac Mini:
457068e3-55a9-426f-adb0-ffc89087232c.PNG

mac-mini-bottom-cover-opened-ifixit.jpg


Easy access, plug and play :)
 

SublimeAnarky

Member
Oct 27, 2017
811
Copenhagen, Denmark
This is an NVMe SSD:

uk-960-evo-nvme-m-2-ssd-mz-v6e1t0bw-front-61519750


Here is an NVMe drive next to your standard SATA SSD. Main difference is mainly size lol, but also look at the connector:

450_x_241_1100_ssd.png


"SATA" is the normal interface that connects hard drives to computers. They made some upgrades to it to make use of the speed of SSDs, and make no mistake, normal SATA SSDs are very fast. But NVMe are faster, and smaller, and needed a new connector, to make things simple.

NVMes are obviously more expensive, but an option would be really cool to have I agree. Just a slot for it, if people wanted to.

Regardless, some how, some way, I want an option to upgrade internal storage.

I had no idea. Thanks!

From a console design perspective then, NVMe would allow a smaller form factor? I imagine that if this is indeed the storage of the future and if consoles are expected to 'loss leaders' in their life cycles - it would be a likely choice.

That said, is the step up from SSD to NVMe in pure storage/speed terms so significant the the difference in cost is nullified? I guess that sensitivity/trade off would be the final driver.
 

Dimple

Member
Jan 10, 2018
8,591
Frostbite is pretty but not versatile. Unreal is versatile. Let's not forget that Unreal engine was originally shown off with Unreal Tournament.

I've long not understood why Microsoft hasn't invested in a flexible state of the art game engine. They have far more resources than Epic. They should beat the shit out of Unreal and Unity. Sony has proprietary stuff that is kicking ass. Software and dev tools should be Microsoft's wheelhouse.

All this debate about who's hardware will be slightly more powerful next gen and as someone who works in technology who talks to people way smarter than me and most people in this forum...the revolution in what developers put out in the next 5 to 10 years won't be due to local hardware advances. It'll be due to advances in tools for developers.

Microsoft should have a leg up on Epic due to their core business investing so heavily in AI and machine learning. They own Havok. They should be building a monster tool warehouse for their developers. I have suspicions they are.

Probably the same reason as all the other aspects of the Xbox/gaming division, lack of funding, I'm sure at times Phil has pushed for it but I imagine trying to justify a new game engine to someone like Mattrick or Myerson would be an uphill battle.
 

zedox

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,215
Based on what I saw in the game engine, it looks very dynamic.
You saw a video and all of a sudden you think it's a very dynamic engine?
You haven't seen any code let alone gameplay of said engine to make that claim.
Nonsense.

Frostbite is pretty but not versatile. Unreal is versatile. Let's not forget that Unreal engine was originally shown off with Unreal Tournament.

I've long not understood why Microsoft hasn't invested in a flexible state of the art game engine. They have far more resources than Epic. They should beat the shit out of Unreal and Unity. Sony has proprietary stuff that is kicking ass. Software and dev tools should be Microsoft's wheelhouse.

All this debate about who's hardware will be slightly more powerful next gen and as someone who works in technology who talks to people way smarter than me and most people in this forum...the revolution in what developers put out in the next 5 to 10 years won't be due to local hardware advances. It'll be due to advances in tools for developers.

Microsoft should have a leg up on Epic due to their core business investing so heavily in AI and machine learning. They own Havok. They should be building a monster tool warehouse for their developers. I have suspicions they are.
Just because Microsoft has resources doesn't mean that they want to commit those resources to making a "universal" game engine. Not when there are already third party engines out there and then competing with Epic for Unreal Engine...thatll be tough. I could only see them buying an engine like Unity.
 

hmqgg

Member
Nov 1, 2017
221
NVMe makes it much faster to boot system. But AFAIK, in game loading, it doesn't make a big difference between SATA SSD.
And it's very expensive, 1TB NVMe M.2 SSD like Samsung 960 Pro will cost 400 USD at least for customers.

In Scorpio's DevKit, there is a NVMe slot for booting. Next Gen DevKit (which doesn't exist now) will also get one.
 

matimeo

UI/UX Game Industry Veteran
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
979
Probably the same reason as all the other aspects of the Xbox/gaming division, lack of funding, I'm sure at times Phil has pushed for it but I imagine trying to justify a new game engine to someone like Mattrick or Myerson would be an uphill battle.

Find it interesting the blame placed on Mattrick and Myerson. Often misplaced imo.

For centralized tech it means you need a centralized technology team. During Mattrick's Era there was a centralized group for gaming where something like this could work. However centralized teams were disbanded as he lost the corporate war games.

The other issue with centralized tech is good luck getting all the engineering directors on board. Don't think people realize the full autonomy MS studios get especially when it comes to technology stacks. MS is an engineering first company so engineers tend to lead the way and enjoy making those decisions.

On top of the fact that would be seen as a very long term investment something Xbox really only got with hardware. It's bigger than acquisitions which can be written off if need be, you're talking about tying your content to a propiatery engine you must keep up to date, train new people on (easier to just hire those with popular engine experience), maintain a new centralized team,etc.

I doubt Meyerson or Mattrick affect this as it would have never gotten to them as no one internally wanted it. It's also super hard for centralized teams to demonstrate business impact within the MS culture so they tend to not last these days.
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,018
Florida
Yeah NVMe is not happening in consumer Scarlet unless there is some incredible technological breakthrough that's going to significantly lower prices. It also wont come with a 3d printer. Dev kits are very possible.
 

Kasey

Member
Nov 1, 2017
10,822
Boise
Don't see the point of pushing proprietary engines on multiple teams. Unreal 4 is widely used in the industry so it's very convienient to ask for UE4 experience from perspective hires and not have to train them on internally developed tech. Every MS team is growing right now, so it'll definitely save some headaches to stick with majority UE4 projects.
 

NippleViking

Member
May 2, 2018
4,496
I am so stupidly excited to see Halo Infinite gameplay. Gaming just isn't the same without new Halo content on the horizon.
 

SuikerBrood

Member
Jan 21, 2018
15,491
Unreal Engine 4 is well suited for Microsofts plans in my opinion. It scales very well, which makes building games for all kinds of devices much easier.
 

OneBadMutha

Member
Nov 2, 2017
6,059
Don't see the point of pushing proprietary engines on multiple teams. Unreal 4 is widely used in the industry so it's very convienient to ask for UE4 experience from perspective hires and not have to train them on internally developed tech. Every MS team is growing right now, so it'll definitely save some headaches to stick with majority UE4 projects.

Just don't see stuff on Unreal pushing any boundaries. Unreal and Unity are familiar but they don't compete for top tier visuals. I'd argue Coalition pushes the engine more than any dev and Gears graphics don't compare to top tier stuff on PlayStation. Sony's teams figured out how to push tech and share their game engines amongst each other. As long as this goes against Microsoft's strategy, expect the best looking stuff to always be on PlayStation even if the next Xbox is more powerful.

Microsoft is conceding the graphics crown for the foreseeable future if they rely on Unreal.
 
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zedox

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,215
Just don't see stuff on Unreal pushing any boundaries. Unreal and Unity are familiar but they don't compete for top tier visuals. I'd argue Coalition pushes the engine more than any dev and Gears graphics don't compare to top tier stuff on PlayStation. Sony's teams figured out how to push tech and share their game engines amongst each other. As long as this goes against Microsoft's strategy, expect the best looking stuff to always be on PlayStation even if the next Xbox is more powerful.

Microsoft is conceding the graphics crown for the foreseeable future. if they rely on Unreal.
Gears doesn't look as good? Alright. I'll come back at a different subject.
 

Deleted member 48991

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 24, 2018
753
Unreal Engine 4 is still being updated regularly by Epic Games and game developers themselves can also modify / extend it. Gears V will be an interesting showcase of how much more milage the engine has.
 

christocolus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,932
Just don't see stuff on Unreal pushing any boundaries. Unreal and Unity are familiar but they don't compete for top tier visuals. I'd argue Coalition pushes the engine more than any dev and Gears graphics don't compare to top tier stuff on PlayStation. Sony's teams figured out how to push tech and share their game engines amongst each other. As long as this goes against Microsoft's strategy, expect the best looking stuff to always be on PlayStation even if the next Xbox is more powerful.

Microsoft is conceding the graphics crown for the foreseeable future. if they rely on Unreal.
I agree with this too. MS relies heavily on UE4. Some of their devs do some good work with UE but they need an engine built from the ground up to take advantage of Scarlett next gen. They can't keep using UE with the hopes of creating the best looking titles next gen. 343i knows what's up. They are building their own engine... It would be really cool if Rare, NT, Obsidian, PGG, TC and TI all built their own engines and the smaller devs i.e CG and UL could work with any of these engines. Most of the best looking games out there are built on custom engines..
 
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SuikerBrood

Member
Jan 21, 2018
15,491
Just don't see stuff on Unreal pushing any boundaries. Unreal and Unity are familiar but they don't compete for top tier visuals. I'd argue Coalition pushes the engine more than any dev and Gears graphics don't compare to top tier stuff on PlayStation. Sony's teams figured out how to push tech and share their game engines amongst each other. As long as this goes against Microsoft's strategy, expect the best looking stuff to always be on PlayStation even if the next Xbox is more powerful.

Microsoft is conceding the graphics crown for the foreseeable future if they rely on Unreal.

I do think Gears looks better than what we've seen from Infinite. Wasn't that impressed with the 'tech demo' to be honest.
 
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