Men Have No Friends and Women Bear the Burden (Harper's Bazaar)

[devilhawk]

Can't say I agree with what the article is advocating. The average guy has plenty of male friends. I'm not going to dispute the fact that guys don't emotionally open up to their male friends in the same way that women do their female friends. But that isn't really a contentious point. I could see a study saying the average girl has more male friends than the other direction, though.

 

[NineConsonants]

Can't say I agree with what the article is advocating. The average guy has plenty of male friends. I'm not going to dispute the fact that guys don't emotionally open up to their male friends in the same way that women do their female friends. But that isn't really a contentious point. I could see a study saying the average girl has more male friends than the other direction, though.

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I guess the argument is that is somebody a true friend if you cannot open up to them emotionally?

 

[SpinierBlakeD]

Anecdotal, but I have tons of male friends. I used to hang out with a lot of women, but I just didn't have anything in common with them.

 

[Penguin]

Can't say I agree with what the article is advocating. The average guy has plenty of male friends. I'm not going to dispute the fact that guys don't emotionally open up to their male friends in the same way that women do their female friends. But that isn't really a contentious point. I could see a study saying the average girl has more male friends than the other direction, though.

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So... you agree with what the article is saying then?

I feel like people took the "have no friends" to be literal. Article even mentions a lot of the same social situations folks keep mentioning in this thread, getting together for sports or drinks and stuff.

But really not communicating on a level beyond shared interest/shared experiences.

 

[Prolepro]

And it isnt because? Because you said "no, it isnt"? It doesnt work like that

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"Sexism against men" amounts to little more than personal evaluations on men who have the luxury of being considered as people before the shortcomings attatched to their gender, whereas sexism against women is ingrained into our social DNA and puts women into predesignated boxes that become inseparable from their identity.

It's like arguing that racism against white people exists... in that, even if it does, it amounts to very little compared to the actual systemic racism against minorities that much of society is built on.

 

[Deleted member 19066]

That's what I wanna know. I need that secret.

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You lose contact with them after you develop into a generally well rounded(-ish) person. Sorry, bud.

If it's any consolation, it looks like we all end up as emotional wrecks in the end! :p

 

[SpinierBlakeD]

Maybe this is just a regional thing but a lot of women where I'm from don't want men to be more gentle or sensitive any more than the men themselves do. They find the idea of a vulnerable guy unattractive and pretty much enjoy the stereotypical machismo.

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This has been my experience as well. There's a reason Jason Mamoa is seen as a sex symbol as Tom Hanks isn't.

 

[Aiustis]

My so has far more friends, but most his friends are women or not heteronormative

 

[entremet]

This has been my experience as well. There's a reason Jason Mamoa is seen as a sex symbol as Tom Hanks isn't.

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I mean, Jason is way more attractive than Tom Hanks. Come on lol. Tom Hanks is near 62 too.

 

[SpinierBlakeD]

I mean, Jason is way more attractive than Tom Hanks. Come on lol. Tom Hanks is near 62 too.

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That's true (though Tom Hanks is still my guy). But I think Mamoa's rugged masculinity plays a role in why people find him attractive.

 

[Knight in Shining Armani]

You lose contact with them after you develop into a generally well rounded(-ish) person. Sorry, bud.

If it's any consolation, it looks like we all end up as emotional wrecks in the end! :p

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Then what happens if you break up? You rekindle with your friends until you get another girlfriend?

 

[carlsojo]

All my friends are back in Ohio.

My wife is my only friend out here in SF. I keep signing up for MeetUps and chickening out because I have a lot of social anxiety.

 

[The Albatross]

I think the point is that men should be able to open up emotionally to other men too. It's healthy.

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Yeah, it is healthy, but there's a strong social pressure (promulgated by both women and men) on men to not open up emotionally. Men are often expected to be "the fixer" or "the pragmatist" in a relationship, and as they age, they fall into these norms because the social pressure of it is very strong, and then they end up contributing to that social norm.

It's difficult going up against hundreds and thousands of years of social norms, but society has changed so dramatically in just the last ~100 years, that a lot of those social norms are pushing people to their limits.

My wife and I have sort of different relationship than described in the OP because I usually don't open up to her about my insecurities or things I'm uncomfortable with, because I'm usually the therapist in our relationship. I'm not comfortable opening up to her about those things, except if I absolutely have to, and I always feel like if I do, then I feel like I need "to act" on them. Like, I'm so used to my role in society/relationships being a "fixer" or a "solver" or something, that if I describe a problem to my wife, then I feel like that means that I have to work to start solving that problem or come up with a solution for it, when really, I just want to talk about a problem existing. So instead of even recognizing a problem with something or airing it, I'd rather not say anything about it because recognizing that there's a problem with something suggests -- to me (and I think to others) -- that I'm working on a solution for it or have a solution for it.

 

[subpar spatula]

This has been my experience as well. There's a reason Jason Mamoa is seen as a sex symbol as Tom Hanks isn't.

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you think tom mother fucking hanks doesnt have thirsty women lurking around him? every a list star does. fucking ed sheeran is a sex symbol. that goofy fucking irish guy probably has way more thirsty eyes directed his way than jason mamoa gets.

 

[Bob Beat]

Being in therapy, working on communication, I do realize the superficial nature of relationships with guys. It's frustrating and I don't want to pursue deeper relationships. Unfortunately, there are a ton of inputs. We spent our youth calling each other 'gay' instead of having any meaningful discussions.

 

[Odrion]

I really don't want my friends to open up emotionally to me, tbh. Life is hard, playing psuedo-therapist is a toll on my own emotions, and that's not my responsibility.

 

[NinjaBoiX]

Most of my friends these days are girls, I've gone through a number of bar jobs and now run a service industry business since I moved cities a couple of years ago.

It's no bad thing that the people I spend most of my leisure time with come at life from a different angle and are inherently more pleasant, attractive people to be around.

The term "toxic masculinity" needs to die in a fire though. I fucking hate that term, it's so "millennial".

 

[Deleted member 54292]

Most of my friends these days are girls, I've gone through a number of bar jobs and now run a service industry business since I moved cities a couple of years ago.

It's no bad thing that the people I spend most of my leisure time with come at life from a different angle and are inherently more pleasant, attractive people to be around.

The term "toxic masculinity" needs to die in a fire though. I fucking hate that term, it's so "millennial".

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Why is toxic masculinity a term you "fucking hate?"

 

[NinjaBoiX]

Why is toxic masculinity a term you "fucking hate?"

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Because like most things in modern life it's been co-opted from it's original, well-intentioned meaning to become yet another term to pin on those that aren't quite as progressive as you'd like, it's yet another label to deride what is often pretty normal, human behaviour. A lot of people have taken the ball and run with it, right out of the park, across oncoming traffic and right into crazy town.

Obviously when it manifests as nonchalant rape culture and such then it's gone too far, but as usual people have often chosen the option to crack a walnut with a sledgehammer.

 

[Cromat]

I skimmed the article because I found it kind of mean-spirited (imagine an article written by a dude about how offering emotional support to his needy girlfriend is exhausting). Does it have any hard data about men's friendships?

In any case it doesn't conform to my personal experience at all. I have mostly male friends and we do talk about real feelings, hopes and fears all the time.

 

[Dalek]

My wife does voice this complaint about me.

When I was younger I had a lot of friends. We all worked together, hung out all the time, had no responsibilities and did lots of things together. Then I moved further away when I got married. I found myself maturing in a lot of ways and changing my mind politically - and those friends I had seem to have remained "stuck" in that college mentality. They haven't moved on or matured in the same way that I have. So I feel in a lot of ways those friends are part of a relationship that I've moved on from. I still value them and the time we spent-but frankly, they've become angry conservative people in many ways and aren't open minded about the things that I am-and I don't want to be around that.

Then, as others have said-I feel like my life is just constant work, then come home and enjoy some time with my wife and daughter and do other family responsibilities. I don't know where I would have the time to foster a new relationship. When I get a rare break with no work, errands, household responsibilities, etc-I just want a moment to myself for fucks sake-so I can stare at a wall for 10 minutes without someone needing something from me, or something being picked up or delivered, not having to call or schedule something or take something in for repair. I just want to do nothing with no one for once in my life.

 

[CaptNink]

My wife is my best friend - I don't need anyone else.

But I guess I'm doing her a disservice?

 

[JetSetSoul]

Imagine feeling burdened by your spouse.

My wife really only has a few friends but I don't feel burdened based on getting nearly all the attn of that. Try having kids and see how burdened you all. Sorry daughter, you've burdened me, and now I must go to the hospital.

 

[Fisty]

That anecdote in the article sounds like co-dependency. Not exactly a new phenomenon.

 

[Deleted member 19066]

Then what happens if you break up? You rekindle with your friends until you get another girlfriend?

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Or bourbon.

 

[Deleted member 23158]

Huh. So weird. In my experience it's been the opposite.

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Same here. I never assumed it was a gender thing though. Some people just aren't good at making friends, unwilling or haven't met the right people.

I do side eye people who say that they don't have friends with their own gender though. I feel like the problem almost always seems to lie with them rather than with "men" or "women".

 

[Z-Beat]

Then what happens if you break up? You rekindle with your friends until you get another girlfriend?

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Yeah, actually. That's usually how it goes.

 

[jb1234]

It's not surprising to me. I had a couple of friends basically vanish from my life after they got married. I wonder where they'll be if they get a divorce. Relying on one person for emotional support is deeply unwise.

I have three men in my life who are basically brothers. We talk every day in some format or another (long distance, unfortunately). Two of them are very comfortable discussing their emotions and what they're going through although I secretly wonder if it's because I'm gay. There's definitely a stigma against two straight men being vulnerable with each other.

 

[larrybud]

I lost all contact with my male friends because I always felt way shittier around them than not. the lizard brain superior/inferior games are endless. I am not closed off to male friendships, but my discomfort with them outweighs the benefits.

 

[larrybud]

my only question is.........how do these guys able to get a girlfriend in the first place?

kinda bonkers going by what's being described.

How does a guy confess his feelings to a girl and asked for her hand if he's 'too afraid of admitting having any emotion'?

Seems like an oxymoronic situation.

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because they watched movies and tv, and so did women. what is a confession of feelings? it can be totally scripted. you know the lines.

"I love you babe. I can't imagine living without you."

"You make me feel whole."

"I've finally found my place in the world, and it's with you."

"I love you so much. Will you marry me?"

we all know the lines.

we respond to them in kind because...well, because what else is there? words can only be arranged palatably in so many ways.

language is inherently deceptive. to get even close to the truth of a thing means having to hack through a jungle of dangerous, stupid language. and even then, it's impossible to know if what you've come across is a jewel or just another shabby counterfeit. the Universe isn't telling.

 

[littleredcatcher]

The title really doesn't help the understanding of the article. The problem is that a lot of miserable men rely on their wives or girlfriends to single handedly save them from their shitty lives. Women are more likely to seek medical help, therapy and the advice of another human being they are not in a relationship with. Sexism makes men ashamed of being weak and they might put a lot of emotional baggage on their SO because of that.

 

[Dabanton]

Sadly there is a feeling of too much vulnerability revealing your emotional side to another man.

Women do not have that problem as much, there female support networks prides itself on getting it all out and sharing pain and disappointment.

Hence if a couple breaks up for instance, it's usually the woman who gets the better support.

It's very marked that I have closer relationships with women friends than I do with men. I find men harder to read and no man wants to be thought of as 'weak' so many just keep to surface conversations.