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ZeroNoir_

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,734
Yeah my reach is the reachest of reaches but you have enablers. I have edited my post though

People have already dunked on you for this, but I feel like it's still worth pointing out that the real reason this is a bad comparison is because this isn't a systemic issue like those are. It's also worth mentioning that this is really a separate issue from sexual harassment in gaming/Smash; it's a manifesto painting an unhinged outside-of-reality narrative created by one person. Anyone could have done this in any type of community. Hell, I could write a manifesto about some random Era user right now, I'd get banned for it, but so will Hax.

Hopefully this Hax person is barred from any event. Gootecks, Filipino and Lowtiergod had enablers with him so the top dogs of the community must speak now
 

Truno

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Jan 16, 2020
4,864
Hax inspired me to play pink Captain Falcon, this is so disappointing. I hope he gets the help he clearly needs

Leffen used to be really toxic back in the day but he's really grown up turnt things around and seems like a decent dude the last 2+ years.

Hopefully he does not get harrassment from this.

He's still a dick, but this is on another level. Nobody deserves this kind of obsession.

Also the generalizations in this thread are gross
 

Cdammen

Member
Oct 27, 2017
522
Sweden
That's a lotta crazy. Accusing someone of "red flags" when their entire point of view is just a massive row of the same, it would shame the European Commission building's flags.
 

collige

Member
Oct 31, 2017
12,772
Man what is this?

The community is very messy that's true but comparing them to bigots and cops? This is not it.

IMO the biggest "icons" of the community needs to get together and make some "rules". This way people like the one in the OP can understand that this is not acceptable.

It is hard I know as there is no "leader" but something has to be done. I know I said I can't blame Nintendo for not intrefering but now that I think about it they should 100% get involved.
I agree, but with respect to the bolded this is clearly not a case of understanding being the issue. Everyone in their right mind understands that making a manifesto like this isn't acceptable, the problem is that hax$ isn't in his right mind.
 

Dust

C H A O S
Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,347
My Master's Thesis was 116 pages long...
giphy.gif
 
Jan 10, 2018
6,927
This is the first time I'm reading anything about the Smash community. What an introduction...

It's kinda hard to swallow that this harmless goofy game about Nintendo characters punching eachother would be the root of all evil.
 

WindUp

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,396
I don't see how you can watch / read about this and not be extremely concerned about the creator's safety. He seems seriously detached from reality and I really hope this is a sign to the people around him that he needs a much more significant support system than whatever he currently has. It seems like Leffen is going to take the necessary precautions to ensure his own safety and security, which is definitely a relief.

Some posts in this thread have felt a bit in poor taste and while this is certainly some insane shit I think it's important to remember that it's coming from an actual person who is clearly in a very bad (and likely lonely) place right now.
 

Jebusman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,090
Halifax, NS

This is sort of the problem though. Without some sort of organization at the top to put the foot down and ensure people like this can't have any involvement with the pro scene, it's up to individual players/tournaments to deal with it, a patchwork of inconsistent rules and people enforcing them that leaves people (like Leffen) wondering how safe he actually is at these pro events.

Capcom may not be able to actively control who plays Street Fighter V in general, but they "can" control who can/can't play in their tournament series, and enforce a consistent code of conduct for it's participants and spectators. And by proxy, any smaller tournament that wishes to be included as part of the grander Capcom Pro Tour would need to follow those same rules.

Smash "needs" some sort of unified organizing body at the top, I don't see how else they are going to continuously deal with these kinds of issues.
 
Jan 10, 2018
6,927
So at the beginning he's talking about his contribution to the community, which of course is to validate himself as someone to be taken seriously. But is his contributions also part of his delusion or has he actually played a big part in transforming Smash?
 
Oct 27, 2017
39,148
This is sort of the problem though. Without some sort of organization at the top to put the foot down and ensure people like this can't have any involvement with the pro scene, it's up to individual players/tournaments to deal with it, a patchwork of inconsistent rules and people enforcing them that leaves people (like Leffen) wondering how safe he actually is at these pro events.

Capcom may not be able to actively control who plays Street Fighter V in general, but they "can" control who can/can't play in their tournament series, and enforce a consistent code of conduct for it's participants and spectators. And by proxy, any smaller tournament that wishes to be included as part of the grander Capcom Pro Tour would need to follow those same rules.

Smash "needs" some sort of unified organizing body at the top, I don't see how else they are going to continuously deal with these kinds of issues.
giphy.gif


This has gone for long enough. It is time for change.
 

Deleted member 46948

Account closed at user request
Banned
Aug 22, 2018
8,852
That's classic confirmation bias, the stories that are going to break out of the focused bubble are inevitably going to be mostly focused on the most negative events. If you're not tuned in you're not likely to hear anything about the good things the people in the community do, such as raising thousands for charity. It really isn't healthy to make such generalizations based on incomplete information, let alone based off of the actions of someone who clearly needs professional help, if you wanted to you could say the exact same thing about this site using similarly incomplete information.

I mean, sure, BUT I don't recall seeing so many threads about Fortnite community, Minecraft community or FIFA community.

So blind hate. Maybe you should go and research

Uhh, okay? "Blind hate"? Are you alright?
 

Matthias

alt account
Banned
Mar 10, 2021
341
As punishment I propose that they from now on must play all matches on a random stage with items on.
 

GamerJM

Member
Nov 8, 2017
15,659
I mean, sure, BUT I don't recall seeing so many threads about Fortnite community, Minecraft community or FIFA community.

I'm not going to argue any of these communities are better or worse, since I don't know much about them, but I have read plenty of bad shit about MineCraft. IIRC there were multiple YouTubers who were found to be pedophiles? I think part of the reason can at least just be attributed to Era having more people who play Smash.
 

collige

Member
Oct 31, 2017
12,772
So at the beginning he's talking about his contribution to the community, which of course is to validate himself as someone to be taken seriously. But is his contributions also part of his delusion or has he actually played a big part in transforming Smash?
He has. He was an up and coming player until he had a career-ending hand injury and then helped design a tournament-legal alternative ergonomic controller. There's a movement technique he pioneered that's named after him too (haxdashing).
 

Neki

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,793
I mean, sure, BUT I don't recall seeing so many threads about Fortnite community, Minecraft community or FIFA community.



Uhh, okay? "Blind hate"? Are you alright?

All of those communities have the benefit of being able to maintain itself entirely through an online community presence. The online presence of Smash is abysmal due to the poor netcode meaning if you want to play with other like-minded people, you need to personally be there at locals and tournaments to get real practice in. It's much easier to protect people when they're behind computers and not having to potentially dealing with creeps in real life. A lot of the shady stuff that happens in smash community happens at the after-parties or hang outs that occur after tournaments or locals where some bad faith actors are willing to test the limits of what they can get away with. It's much harder to do that with purely online meet ups.
 

Layell

One Winged Slayer
Member
Apr 16, 2018
1,982
This is sort of the problem though. Without some sort of organization at the top to put the foot down and ensure people like this can't have any involvement with the pro scene, it's up to individual players/tournaments to deal with it, a patchwork of inconsistent rules and people enforcing them that leaves people (like Leffen) wondering how safe he actually is at these pro events.

Capcom may not be able to actively control who plays Street Fighter V in general, but they "can" control who can/can't play in their tournament series, and enforce a consistent code of conduct for it's participants and spectators. And by proxy, any smaller tournament that wishes to be included as part of the grander Capcom Pro Tour would need to follow those same rules.

Smash "needs" some sort of unified organizing body at the top, I don't see how else they are going to continuously deal with these kinds of issues.

This is a fantastic point, but nobody is going to engage with this because it's easier for some people to justify the status quo, rather than focus on reform and matters that could help from the top-down.
 

lunarworks

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,195
Toronto
Just seeing screenshots of this video, and damn, it'd be funny if I wasn't convinced this guy was a real danger to others. I feel bad for the folks who actually watched all TWO AND A HALF HOURS of this shit.

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E3F5GAPXMAI-1iM
I've seen this kind of thinking/behaviour up close and personal, and trust me when I say it's only going to get worse, at an accelerating pace, if he doesn't get some help.

The most difficult aspect is that he needs to realize he needs help.
 
Oct 29, 2017
6,267
And this right here is why Nintendo will not (and should never) work alongside competitive Smash. The last twelve months alone are proof in of itself that they can't be professional and will corrupt anything that they touch. Nintendo was wise to steer clear of them and this latest incident only makes it more clear.

I honestly wouldn't blame them if they never allowed any Smash tournaments outside of their direct control again. That's one case where their iron grip on their IP would be fully justified.

The Smash scene is a fucking cesspool.
 

Man God

Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,331
As someone who loves watching Flat Earth and Q related conspiracies and video games this is, well, exactly what I expected from a two and a half hour video about saving smash bros from "an evil god of the new world"

Among the first five sentences we have a Hitler quote.
 

entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
Member
Oct 26, 2017
60,279
This is sort of the problem though. Without some sort of organization at the top to put the foot down and ensure people like this can't have any involvement with the pro scene, it's up to individual players/tournaments to deal with it, a patchwork of inconsistent rules and people enforcing them that leaves people (like Leffen) wondering how safe he actually is at these pro events.

Capcom may not be able to actively control who plays Street Fighter V in general, but they "can" control who can/can't play in their tournament series, and enforce a consistent code of conduct for it's participants and spectators. And by proxy, any smaller tournament that wishes to be included as part of the grander Capcom Pro Tour would need to follow those same rules.

Smash "needs" some sort of unified organizing body at the top, I don't see how else they are going to continuously deal with these kinds of issues.
Capcom is really the only company that supports their own scene, though.

They can because their games basically built the old scene and the ProTour was an extension of this. And this only happened this generation with SFV.
 

jett

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,666
edit: clearly this dude needs help but leffen also needs to take action to protect himself in some way. Just...what a weird situation. There always seems to be some kind of drama brewing in the Smash community for some reason.
 
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Dyle

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
29,968
I mean, sure, BUT I don't recall seeing so many threads about Fortnite community, Minecraft community or FIFA community.
Fortnite and FIFA both have had their fair share of issues but both are heavily regulated by the games' publishers which strongly discourages bad behavior and has stronger punishment for whatever happens. Fortnite is 100% online only, which greatly reduces the possibility for abuse, and FIFA is very heavily tilted towards online play and community building. There is no singular Minecraft community, there are many small communities around Minecraft but no all encompassing, competitive one. Most of the Minecraft communities that do exist are either completely online or moderated in part by Microsoft with the understanding that interest in the game skews younger than gaming at large which has resulted in them taking steps to ensure player safety. That is not the case with Nintendo who uses community members for an occasional marketing bit but nothing more. You also have the confirmation bias issue where fewer people on a site like this are heavily invested into those games so less about them will be posted here.

Smash is unfortunately a community which has every single disadvantage for the fostering of toxicity you could imagine. It overwhelmingly takes place in person, entirely at grassroots events that barely scrape by financially with no centralized authority for creating or enforcing rules, it is generally younger than most which means that many players tend to be more vulnerable to abuse (or in some circumstances more likely to commit it), and so many people within the community rely on it for their income, whether it's through tournament winnings, stream subscriptions, merch sales, etc. and thus place particularly high importance on continuing to be able to play it. Yet despite all of that things are slowly but steadily improving as awareness of these problems is becoming more widespread and people are being more motivated to ensure it's as safe for everyone as possible. Making harsh generalizations based on limited, anecdotal data helps no one and only makes it harder for the people trying to make things better.
 

Beedig

Member
Feb 10, 2018
1,268
im so old i dont even understand why there's a "scene" or community around a videogame (and i love games), so thinking there's gamers issuing long videos and manifestos against each other is just... indescribably odd.

and a Smash beat em up game of all games? what in the world...? is it that amazing?

im so old i feel like giving up trying to understand the world around me, its hopeless lol.
I don't think your age has anything to do with this. Have you ever been in a arcade in the 80s or 90s? Video games have always had a competitive scene especially with fighting games.
 

DWarriorSN

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,136
PA
You know the more i think of it the more i feel bad for Hax and the more i think people are letting Leffen act a little too much like an innocent "victim".

Honestly if you cut out all the university thesis psychology conspiracy bullshit it just comes of as a harrased individual mad that his bully gets to live free of consequences.

At the very least i feel like framing Hax as a stalker is little excessive considering how much Leffen spent trying to personally undermine him and actively shitting on him.

Idk i feel like the whole thing is weird, i feel like if Era knew how much of douche Leffen really was and the video wasn't so clearly written in such a loaded absurd manner the conversation would be different.
 

Kingpin Rogers

HILF
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,459
This is a weird situation and Hax clearly needs help which hopefully he'll get. I don't understand the people using this to criticize the smash community though, there's been a ton of fucked up things involved with the community in the past but one player acting crazy doesn't really seem like it's indicative of the community at all. It's just one person who genuinely might need help.

Hand them a bar of soap and watch the confusion.
That's just a dickish thing to say and uncalled for.
 

Deleted member 5491

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,249
Okay... he started off with quoiting FUCKING Hitler, claimed he studies psychology and history.
He then goes off and calls other Smashers having somewhat of a beef with Leffen being whistleblower and that, once you got in terms with
Leffen you're only scarred of his influence and not because you have grown up and realized you have beef because of a fucking video game.
He calls Leffen a disease, compares him to Totalitarianism and that him blocking idiots on his personal twitter is proof of that...

AND THIS ALL JUST ON THE FIRST 10 PAGES OF HIS PDF

WHAT THE FUCK!?
 

Dyle

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
29,968
You know the more i think of it the more i feel bad for Hax and the more i think people are letting Leffen act a little too much like an innocent "victim".

Honestly if you cut out all the university thesis psychology conspiracy bullshit it just comes of as a harrased individual mad that his bully gets to live free of consequences.

At the very least i feel like framing Hax as a stalker is little excessive considering how much Leffen spent trying to personally undermine him and actively shitting on him.

Idk i feel like the whole thing is weird, i feel like if Era knew how much of douche Leffen really was and the video wasn't so clearly written in such a loaded absurd manner the conversation would be different.
This isn't it. The only legitimate problems Hax has with Leffen are upwards of 5 years old, some almost 10 years old, and all of it is stuff that Leffen has apologized for many times over. Leffen can be a dick but none of it is so serious as to justify anything Hax has put forward here. Hax clearly needs help and it does not make sense to lay any of that on the innocuous actions of another person.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,391
Hope Hax can get some actual help, that shit is scary and these delusions can be very dangerous.

This type of stuff happens way more than people realize to streamers, especially female streamers, so many scary stalker situations out there.
 

speedomodel

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,168
4EHG0FT.gif

I feel like every time I hear something about this community it's something like this. Killed any interest for me.
 

Paroni

Member
Dec 17, 2020
3,433
While people definitely have a point in saying that this should not become dunking on Smash community, it should also be kept in mind that competitive gaming/content creation/streaming cultures in general contain elements of idolization, putting pros on pedestals and straight up celebrity worship, which is an environment that can be detrimental for people who are already struggling with mental health, and lead to obsessions and unhealthy actions. Those cultures should change and the way they are now is definitely fueling insanity like this.
 
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