Mario Odyssey‘s “Snow World” is seriously underwhelming and not cozy at all :(

[Line]

Bad levels is just a staple in 3D Mario games.

Mario 64 had plenty of awful levels like Tall tall mountain and Rainbow ride. And they also suffered from the problems in Odyssey, having a ton of filler forcing you on the same track again and again and again to get everything.
The Mario Galaxies were even worse, far worse; it's absurd how the horrendous mission design was and still is completely ignored. And most levels were just random bollocks thrown together that you would finish in two minutes and never come back to. Except for that one shitty purple star of course. The 3D Land/world are much the same. Does anyone even remember one level of those games? I don't think I do. I tried replaying 3D Land, and it was almost a brand new game for me. All the levels are just rehashed, generic Mario themed platform levels of the last 35 years.

For all its problems in gameplay and general movement, Sunshine did not suffer much from those issues; sure, everything was in the same theme, but at least every course was widely different and relatively memorable.
All the other games have a colossal identity crisis and art direction is plain missing way too often.

 

[SpokkX]

Level should have been cut - felt uninspired and lacked charm

 

[Ac30]

Yeah...it is very safe i think

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Safe? The game is a hodgepodge of out-there ideas thrown together and it works pretty well. They even built a level with actual humans in it!

 

[Joni]

I'm hoping Nintendo opts for some remakes next. Odyssey is good, but I'd rather go back to Sunshine or Galaxy on the go.

 

[SinCityAssassin]

There are certainly some takes from here on a year and a half old necro'd thread.

 

[Coztoomba]

Definitely one of my lest favourites of the game.

 

[VegiHam]

I actually like that instead of going for a cosy snow vibe like other games it goes for a harsh tundra feel. Makes it feel more like going on an adventure to the arctic.

 

[Alex840]

I'm sorry, let's stop right here.

How dare you, sir or ma'am. How. Dare. You. The Shiverians are the most adorable thing to exist in SMO.

They're cute puffballs that just want to sit by the fire and watch some idiots bound around a track.

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Came here to post this. OP says not cozy, yet these are the coziest motherfuckers in the game.

 

[Asbsand]

The snow level is one of the shallowest levels for sure. I know it sounds like I'm drumming up for war, but legitimately, I'm a little concerned since Odyssey and BoTW that Nintendo's teams on Mario and Zelda have been drizzling down on good ideas for levels and dungeons. They're some of the shallowest in each respective series in the latest iteration, and I don't think it's excused just because the overall world size of both games is probably bigger.

In fact, if that was the case, the logical thing would be to scope down a little and focus on better content.

 

[Vampirolol]

I vastly prefer the snow levels in 3D Land and 3D World. This was ok but nothing to write home about, the only surprise was the bouncing race not being actual shit.

 

[Xita]

I feel we need to be really careful with the overuse of that word. You're entitled to if you wish obviously but I just feel like slapping it on everything under the Sun just degrades the terms value.

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I don't use the word lightly either. Odyssey is a masterpiece.

 

[Jakisthe]

God so many of the levels in Odyssey let me down...

Snow: Microscopic; too much about bad racing minigame.
Cloud/Ruin: Effectively useless.
Lake: Bigger than Snow, but still super small. Swimming remains unengaging.
Mushroom: Throwback, yawn.
Cap: Still small, still not much to do. Kinda gets a pass for being the intro.

And then stuff like Luncheon, Seaside, Lost, Sand, Cascade, even Metro, like, they're fine, but still never managed to be particularly interesting. Just a few relatively flat planes of easy platforming between each, although at least Metro got rid of the first half of that complaint. The most interesting levels in the game are easily Wooded and Bowsers, and even those two only really shine in comparison. Man, the most I think about Odyssey the more I remember how "meh" I found it :/

 

[Bulebule]

Shiverians were cool but the kingdom itself was very boring. Then again most worlds were pretty underwhelming. New Donk City, Lost Kingdom and Luncheon Kingdom were pretty cool, though.

 

[klier]

I think that the tropical/forest level with the T Rex is the worst and ugliest. Snow World was ok.

 

[Jonneh]

I loved the contrast between the snow storm and the cosy town, they could have definitely gone further with the town though

Racing game was rad though, had so much fun with it

 

[klier]

Then again most worlds were pretty underwhelming.

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I agree sadly. That's why Mario is no in the Media Create sales anymore and BOTW still is. Which is pretty unheard of, Zelda selling more than Mario.....

 

[Galactor]

I agree sadly. That's why Mario is no in the Media Create sales anymore and BOTW still is. Which is pretty unheard of, Zelda selling more than Mario.....

Click to shrink...

Maybe if the keikaku for nintendo is having the same mindshare as mickey mouse in the long term, oddysey was trying to capture young gamer's imagination (and supposed short attention span and easy frustrability). But they are wrong because the youngest players also enjoy complexity and difficulty. Maybe the sequel will be a gamer's game.

 

[ZeoVGM]

Bad levels is just a staple in 3D Mario games.

Mario 64 had plenty of awful levels like Tall tall mountain and Rainbow ride. And they also suffered from the problems in Odyssey, having a ton of filler forcing you on the same track again and again and again to get everything.
The Mario Galaxies were even worse, far worse; it's absurd how the horrendous mission design was and still is completely ignored. And most levels were just random bollocks thrown together that you would finish in two minutes and never come back to. Except for that one shitty purple star of course. The 3D Land/world are much the same. Does anyone even remember one level of those games? I don't think I do. I tried replaying 3D Land, and it was almost a brand new game for me. All the levels are just rehashed, generic Mario themed platform levels of the last 35 years.

For all its problems in gameplay and general movement, Sunshine did not suffer much from those issues; sure, everything was in the same theme, but at least every course was widely different and relatively memorable.
All the other games have a colossal identity crisis and art direction is plain missing way too often.

Click to shrink...

Sometimes there are bad opinions.

This is one of them.

 

[Axe]

I agree it's one of the most bland levels in the game. There are little glimmers of potential, but overall it feels as though they ran out of time and quickly cobbled together whatever they already had.

 

[vedrua]

I'm hoping Nintendo opts for some remakes next. Odyssey is good, but I'd rather go back to Sunshine or Galaxy on the go.

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Yes. I think maybe we don't need a direct sequel to Odyssey.

Odyssey really felt like a love letter to every generations of players in the world who love or ever loved Nintendo. The ending song of the game perfectly expressed that.

I'm not a fan of how easy it is to get moons, Odyssey was probably a bit too focused on exploration and not enough on plateform, (the same way 3D World was not "opened" at all) but it's a woderful game because it's almost a profession of faith.

A Mario Sunshine HD would be great, and logical since the last remake was Mario 64 on DS.

Galaxy seems specifically created for motion controls, like Skyward Sword. But they already devlopped a remaster of Galaxy with regular controls on Nvidia Shield

 

[Fishsnot]

To each there own I guess.
Mario Odyssey is a wonderful game!

 

[Phil's Empty Chair]

Water>Ice/snow

 

[Tribal_Cult]

Now that you make me think about it, it does look like they had to fill the "snow level" quota with this one.
And the minigame is bullshit, the equivalent to Sunshine's pachinko level.
Weird since usually snow levels in Mario are pretty damn good actually.

 

[mute]

It is definitely one of a "secondary tier" of worlds that Odyssey has far too many of.

 

[Deleted member 15125]

I only got as far as Metro Kingdom in Mario Odyssey because I wasn't digging the game at all, so I decided to watch a video of Snow Kingdom to see what I missed. It really is stunning how the kingdoms in Mario Odyssey barely seem like they were designed with platforming in mind. Things seem to get better when you head down a pipe, but none of these "void" levels are even close to being as good as the ones in Mario Sunshine. You could take a Mario Kart 8 level, remove the track, shove Mario Odyssey's Mario into it, scatter a few moons around it, and it would sort of resemble a Mario Odyssey kingdom.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYrkzFLSwXA&t=20m30s

See the overpass ahead? That's actually a wonderfully designed platforming section because you can chain Mario's awesome moveset together in a ridiculously convoluted manner in order to get up... a completely stationary platform.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBs0Ulxcp_k

Look at the void levels in Mario Sunshine. Look at the completely wild idea that you can string a bunch of completely different platforms together in a fun obstacle course. Funny how a sandbox Mario has some of the best linear platforming of the series. Those Fluddless void levels in Sunshine are more intense than 95% of Super Mario 3D World.

 

[60fps]

I agree sadly. That's why Mario is no in the Media Create sales anymore and BOTW still is. Which is pretty unheard of, Zelda selling more than Mario.....

Click to shrink...

Good point. I also feel it has gotten really quiet about Mario Odyssey, especially for a game that is supposed to be so "perfect".

Maybe if the keikaku for nintendo is having the same mindshare as mickey mouse in the long term, oddysey was trying to capture young gamer's imagination (and supposed short attention span and easy frustrability). But they are wrong because the youngest players also enjoy complexity and difficulty. Maybe the sequel will be a gamer's game.

Click to shrink...

That's an interesting take, I agree.

Bad levels is just a staple in 3D Mario games.

Mario 64 had plenty of awful levels like Tall tall mountain and Rainbow ride. And they also suffered from the problems in Odyssey, having a ton of filler forcing you on the same track again and again and again to get everything.
The Mario Galaxies were even worse, far worse; it's absurd how the horrendous mission design was and still is completely ignored. And most levels were just random bollocks thrown together that you would finish in two minutes and never come back to. Except for that one shitty purple star of course. The 3D Land/world are much the same. Does anyone even remember one level of those games? I don't think I do. I tried replaying 3D Land, and it was almost a brand new game for me. All the levels are just rehashed, generic Mario themed platform levels of the last 35 years.

Click to shrink...

I have to admit, that really sums up my feelings when I played Mario Galaxies and 3D World.

The snow level is one of the shallowest levels for sure. I know it sounds like I'm drumming up for war, but legitimately, I'm a little concerned since Odyssey and BoTW that Nintendo's teams on Mario and Zelda have been drizzling down on good ideas for levels and dungeons. They're some of the shallowest in each respective series in the latest iteration, and I don't think it's excused just because the overall world size of both games is probably bigger.

In fact, if that was the case, the logical thing would be to scope down a little and focus on better content.

Click to shrink...

I don't think the problem of BotW is bad dungeons, but rather having no proper dungeons at all. They are all like puzzle rooms, including the 4 major ones. I just hope the sequel will feature actual dungeons (towns would be nice, too).

I only got as far as Metro Kingdom in Mario Odyssey because I wasn't digging the game at all, so I decided to watch a video of Snow Kingdom to see what I missed. It really is stunning how the kingdoms in Mario Odyssey barely seem like they were designed with platforming in mind. Things seem to get better when you head down a pipe, but none of these "void" levels are even close to being as good as the ones in Mario Sunshine. You could take a Mario Kart 8 level, remove the track, shove Mario Odyssey's Mario into it, scatter a few moons around it, and it would sort of resemble a Mario Odyssey kingdom.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYrkzFLSwXA&t=20m30s

See the overpass ahead? That's actually a wonderfully designed platforming section because you can chain Mario's awesome moveset together in a ridiculously convoluted manner in order to get up... a completely stationary platform.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBs0Ulxcp_k

Look at the void levels in Mario Sunshine. Look at the completely wild idea that you can string a bunch of completely different platforms together in a fun obstacle course. Funny how a sandbox Mario has some of the best linear platforming of the series. Those Fluddless void levels in Sunshine are more intense than 95% of Super Mario 3D World.

Click to shrink...

Lol, yes. Excellent take.

 

[60fps]

/Double post, sorry

 

[Asbsand]

I don't think the problem of BotW is bad dungeons, but rather having no proper dungeons at all.

Click to shrink...

Semantics. The Divine Beasts are "proper dungeons" but they aren't constructed the way previous "proper dungeons" in the franchise were, for better and for worse at the same time.

I was close-minded about them for a while after realizing how shallow the first dungeon I did was. Then I realized that while they do abandon the tried and tested formula for good zelda dungeons (comparing to the best: Snowpeak Ruins, Forest Temple, Shadow Temple) they do also take an original approach to it. There's lateral puzzle solving, that is, there's multiple ways you can reach certain heights inside a dungeon either by using the special new mechanics or by using tricks like Rivali's Gale, and none of it is cheating because Nintendo made it with all of those things intentionally. That adds nonlinearity to the dungeons and replay value, which is good.

The issue I have is that the specific dungeon-mechanics you unlock in each Divine Beast, of room-shifting proportions, are always unlocked at the very beginning and you always get the match-for-match exposition dump about "unlock that terminal, then these terminals and the master terminal to win!" and on top of the beasts all sharing the same internal decor, it gets too repetitive to be a high point of the experience.

So what I hope BoTW2 does there is, potentially keep the idea of mechanical living dungeons but vary the decor, create a longer formula for each dungeon with only the room-shifting mecahnicsms unlocked after unlocking enough rooms in the dungeon to fight a mini boss, and award the secret tool after that, because what's truly missing in BoTW is that "aha!" moment where you're facing an impossibility, until you return with the proper tool with the epiphany that you can now operate things that take you further into the dungeon, and the same tool that is the weakness for the boss.

I hope they don't over-rely on the dungeon tool like in Twilight Princess where it got too gimmicky for the boss fights. I just hope they account for it instead of using it minimally as in BoTW1.

 

[60fps]

Semantics. The Divine Beasts are "proper dungeons" but they aren't constructed the way previous "proper dungeons" in the franchise were, for better and for worse at the same time.

I was close-minded about them for a while after realizing how shallow the first dungeon I did was. Then I realized that while they do abandon the tried and tested formula for good zelda dungeons (comparing to the best: Snowpeak Ruins, Forest Temple, Shadow Temple) they do also take an original approach to it. There's lateral puzzle solving, that is, there's multiple ways you can reach certain heights inside a dungeon either by using the special new mechanics or by using tricks like Rivali's Gale, and none of it is cheating because Nintendo made it with all of those things intentionally. That adds nonlinearity to the dungeons and replay value, which is good.

The issue I have is that the specific dungeon-mechanics you unlock in each Divine Beast, of room-shifting proportions, are always unlocked at the very beginning and you always get the match-for-match exposition dump about "unlock that terminal, then these terminals and the master terminal to win!" and on top of the beasts all sharing the same internal decor, it gets too repetitive to be a high point of the experience.

So what I hope BoTW2 does there is, potentially keep the idea of mechanical living dungeons but vary the decor, create a longer formula for each dungeon with only the room-shifting mecahnicsms unlocked after unlocking enough rooms in the dungeon to fight a mini boss, and award the secret tool after that, because what's truly missing in BoTW is that "aha!" moment where you're facing an impossibility, until you return with the proper tool with the epiphany that you can now operate things that take you further into the dungeon, and the same tool that is the weakness for the boss.

I hope they don't over-rely on the dungeon tool like in Twilight Princess where it got too gimmicky for the boss fights. I just hope they account for it instead of using it minimally as in BoTW1.

Click to shrink...

They all feature the exact same bland and boring art design, and to me they don't feel like "dungeons" but like one dimensional puzzle rooms absent of any atmosphere or storytelling. To me they were the most unfun part of the game. I rather like individually themed underground caves, ruins or whatnot, that are organically integrated into the game world.

 

[Deleted member 4292]

Shows how much I remembered the level, I was thinking "what snow level?"

 

[Servbot24]

Yeah this level felt like it barely existed.