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Beje

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,763
Yeah I hate it, if they are going to add a bunch if must play cards every other month there's not going to be an organic format, just an assortment of must play cards

Yeah, at this point I suspect the meta is going to be "the Bob deck", "the brainstorm deck", "the wurmcoil deck"... and for the money that you'll need to spend in lootboxes that don't even guarantee getting the cards you want or a good amount of wildcards, I'd rather just spend that in paper where at least I can sell the cards back.
 

f0rk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,697
Yeah, at this point I suspect the meta is going to be "the Bob deck", "the brainstorm deck", "the wurmcoil deck"... and for the money that you'll need to spend in lootboxes that don't even guarantee getting the cards you want or a good amount of wildcards, I'd rather just spend that in paper where at least I can sell the cards back.
The new cards that aren't in a standard set don't come in boosters, you get them from events and wildcards. The 45 pack bundle thing is for rotated sets.

I have no faith in their ability to manage a format that R&D won't have much to do with though, especially given the examples they used as cards to drop in. They aren't set up to be game devs in that way.
 
Feb 16, 2018
2,686

long video, but they talk about historic a fair bit

funny to see the PR do a 180 from 2 months ago when it was "our standard is soooooo great. we want historic to be like that" to trying to explain what they're trying to do now


reading between the lines (along with some of my own speculation), it seems like there are a few different motivations for this:
  • part of it seems like intentional hoops/obstacles to keep standard popular
  • part of it seems like a mechanism to get older cards and more things to purchase into arena (adding entire sets is prohibitive)
  • part of it seems like a desire among the arena devs to have some involvement with "real" game design instead of just porting the paper game to digital (beyond the silly emblems & special rules for weekend events)
  • part of it sounded like a bit of fantasizing about handling the competitive meta differently from what paper is permitted to do, mainly in terms of being able to change legality more rapidly and possibly hold it to different standards
  • part of it seems like they actually have no idea what the plans are and are just making it up as they go along

my guess is that they don't have any strong feelings about an eternal format, but are trying to establish something that will work out for various finance-adjacent goals. i couldn't really detect a clear gameplay reason or satisfy-the-masses reason why the format needed to be more than just standard+older sets. the standard sets' card pool wasn't really what people were complaining about 2 months ago with respect to historic (it was mostly not having a ladder). injecting power (if they can get away with it) makes more sense from a finance reason instead of a game reason

looks like some of the main magic game designers seem to be involved with deciding what cards to add, so maybe that'll have some positive influence on it. normally that would decrease my confidence in a format, but it might be a good thing in this instance if the main fear is how new cards would invalidate existing ones.
 
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Steve Winwood

Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,589




Completely agree with Sam. I also have zero confidence in Wizards' ability to design specifically for non-Standard formats without printing a bunch of overly pushed, obvious cards (whether curating reprints or designing original cards).
 

Schreckstoff

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,618
I think historic could turn out to have amazing gameplay and great diversity but it will be much less explorative depending on the cards they add
 

onpoint

Neon Deity Games
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
14,990
716

Deleted member 12224

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
6,113
I despise the idea of adding curated powerful cards into Historic. I'd go play those formats if I wanted to at those cards.
 

nicoga3000

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,989
Random question...

I've got a buddy who is HUGE into Commander and has been looking for 3 very specific things for his collection.

Link to site with stuff!

He's missing the V1 (Ur-Dragon) and V2 (Markov) Deck Protectors and the V1 (Ur-Dragon) Deck Box. It's 2017 stuff.

Anyone by chance have ANY way to help him track those down??
 

The Adder

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,160
I like the idea of pulling interesting cards instead of full sets. But I don't care for them pulling powerful cards instead of full sets. Their examples are bad, but if someone convinces them to choose narrow good cards instead of broadly good cards I'd be cool with that.
 

Schreckstoff

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,618
built this for fun but it's kind of been doing alright, the removal lines up really well rn. Was playing Bo3.
d9adb3ad6417d84edf7eb4099d4b5f90.jpg


0bff6749cabdf312187d53ce61430014.png
 

IceMarker

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,270
United States
My LGS started taking pre-orders for boxes and bundles for ELD today. I pre-ordered a couple and he told me apparently they are including with the Buy-a-Box promo a free collector's booster!
 

A_Dang

Member
Oct 27, 2017
262
Western New York
If you could add one color to any mono-color Commander, which would be the most broken?

A friend is planning a Commander get together with these modifications:
I was hoping that people would take a mono colored commander (that I hope you already have) and add one color to it. The commander however will cost the original mana plus one of the colored mana to play. For example, if you wanted to add red to urza, he would be 2UUR to play. Additionally, to speed games up, each person will start with the colored gate of their deck on the field untapped.

This seems like it may be misguided in the best way possible, and I'm looking for some ideas...
 
Oct 28, 2017
6,119
If you could add one color to any mono-color Commander, which would be the most broken?

A friend is planning a Commander get together with these modifications:


This seems like it may be misguided in the best way possible, and I'm looking for some ideas...

Why is there free mana ramp? That would substantially change the way you build your deck. 31-32 lands max.
 

A_Dang

Member
Oct 27, 2017
262
Western New York
Why is there free mana ramp? That would substantially change the way you build your deck. 31-32 lands max.
The gate does count in the 99, but that was the first thing I brought up too. Having one land on board for free that has both of your colors feels a bit overboard for sure.

Still trying to wrap my head around which mono color commanders could be broken with the addition of one color. There has to be some super obvious ones I'm missing...
 

Schreckstoff

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,618
it's either going to be adding U to G or G to U

Selvala #2 comes to mind as does yisan. For mono U of course Urza would benefit a ton from black but costing 5 would be stretching it. Kiki Jiki also gets a lot from another colour, Godo with white would let you do even more equipment instant win shenanigans and you could run grand arbiter at that point.
 
Magic Story - The Gathering Storm - Chapters 8-12
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SigmasonicX

SigmasonicX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,531
Well, I haven't been doing a great job recapping The Gathering Storm, so here's a speedrun before The Wildered Quest comes out tomorrow.

Chapter 8
* Ral meets Dovin Baan. He visited several worlds before determining Ravnica's Azorius fit him best. Thanks to Ral making the secret open, he doesn't bother to hide he's a planeswalker.
* Dovin is helping the Izzet build the Planar Beacon. He's been the target of pranks, such as requests for alligator sandwiches, but he always gets them done within an hour, and he finds amusement from their shocked reactions.
* The engineers report the Planar Beacon is close to completion, and soon Ral will have to set the activation code. The device is designed to never turn off once activated. Ral uses a piano piece from Elias (his first boyfriend) as the password.
* Kaya is recovering from her invasion of Orzhov HQ. A servant informs her she is now the guildmaster.
* Teysa explains that they assumed all of the Ghost Council's contracts were with Orzhov as a whole, but in fact, most of them were handled personally. When Kaya killed them, all of their contracts transferred to her. Since she has control of the majority of Orzhov's financial operations, she is the de facto guildmaster. Teysa talked the others out of killing her.
* If Kaya leaves the plane, that will be considered breaking the contracts, and they will immediately take her life as collateral.
* Bolas sneaks into Kaya's bedroom, in the form of an old man. He congratulates her on her new job. In addition to helping her with her plane, like originally promised, he'll free her from her new guildmaster position if she does something for him at the Guild Summit.
* Ral dreams of the past. Elias's poetry career has taken off greatly in the last three years. The two rose to aristocracy, with surprisingly little pushback. This was thanks to Ral's deal with Bolas.
* Ral worked as a hitman and enforcer for Bolas on Ravnica. A shakedown goes wrong and he almost kills a kid after the kid stabbed him, and he returns home only to see Elias cheating on him with another man.
* This was the event that made him spark and planeswalk away.

Chapter 9
* Lavinia is meeting with Ral openly now, since the Guild Summit is proceeding and it only makes sense she'd talk to him about it.
* The Summit is tomorrow, and they need to find Bolas's agents before then.
* Kaya takes a break during a meeting and runs into an old man. He begs her to forgive his debt, and realizing that's something she can do, she does.
* Bolas talks to Vraska in the form of a possessed shadow elf. He suspects Jace was behind Vraska turning against him.
* Vraska has her Erstwhile zombie guards attack him, but he gains control of them instead. He knows having them attack her will do nothing, but he could easily have every Erstwhile zombie attack the Golgari, causing chaos. Many would see this as an opportunity to overthrow her, leading to a civil war.
* Vraska is unsure what to do.

Chapter 10
* It's the day of the Summit. Crowds gawk at the Simic delegation arriving. Ral is shocked to see that Borborygmos actually showed up, and wonders how Niv-Mizzet did it.
* Borborygmos grumbles. A small green humanoid in a well-tailored suit interprets for him.
* Lazav arrives too. Aurelia is angry he refuses to take his true form even here.
* The guildmasters debate the threat of Bolas, many thinking he isn't worth consideration.
* Niv-Mizzet arrives and tells them that Bolas is more powerful then him, which has a lot of weight coming from him. He requests the Guildpact be amended to give him power above the other guilds, and in return he will abdicate his position in Izzet.
* Isperia calls a recess for each guild's lawmages to go over Niv-Mizzet's plan.
* Vraska goes to her assigned chamber that night, but a note under the door tells her to go to the conference chamber now.
* There, she finds Isperia alone with no guards. They talk. Vraska explains that she was the one who made her spark, thanks to an order she wrote that led to her imprisonment and torture.
* Isperia finds the execution regrettable, but her order was sound. She'd do it all over again.
* Vraska turns her to stone.
* The next morning, the guildmasters gather outside the conference chamber, which is oddly locked. Baan unlocks it, and inside they see Isperia's stone form. Vraska is gone.
* Ral assures everyone they're well protected, but everyone leaves the conference. Hekara stays with Ral. Lazav reminds Ral that he told him that he [Lazav] wasn't the one he should have mistrusted.
* Ral's mind goes back to the Implicit Maze (from the Return to Ravnica story) and he realizes there's still a way to salvage this.

Chapter 11
* Ral is focusing all of Izzet on a single project.
* Ral dreams of the past. After planeswalking, he's immediately accosted by thugs. He defeats them and steals from them instead.
* Ral sees a job listing for an apprentice at an artificer's shop. After showing off his electric powers, he's hired.
* Later, Ral has a new boyfriend, but he was just getting close to Ral to steal from his boss. Ral wants 25% of the take. He already learned everything he needed from the artificer.
* In the present, Ral reports the situation to Niv-Mizzet. Six guilds are still willing to work with them, with Azorius and Dovin Baan being the most cooperative. Dimir is cooperating, but Ral remains distrustful. Simic has gone into hiding, and Selesnya will be neutral and nothing more.
* Domri has defeated Borborygmous off screen, so I guess we'll never know how that happened.
* Vraska has disappeared off the plane.
* Ral has a plan to avoid the restrictions of the Guildpact with specially placed nodes. However, he'll need to place nodes in Golgari and Gruul territory. He suggests they take that territory by force.
* He explains the plan to the six ally guilds and they agree to help.
* Hekara is upset that Vraska turned against them, since she fought alongside them.

Chapter 12
* Teysa doesn't want Kaya involved in the battle herself, since her death could be catastrophic for Orzhov.
* Kaya considers forgiving all her contracts, but that could result in her death. For now, she forgives the debts of people who ask her in person and have debts she considers unreasonable.
* Ral is part of a Boros and Azorius joint attack on Gruul territory. They're confronted by Domri, who claims to be the new Gruul guildmaster.
* Gruul attacks with giant birds and boars.
* A huge battle erupts, with soldier fighting Gruul warrior.
* Ral's side wins and the Gruul retreat. They note they got a much stronger resistance than expected. It must be because of Bolas.

~~~

I was surprised to see the story continue on after the Guild Summit. I figured MaRo was mixed up when he said the events of Ravnica Allegiance happened after Guilds of Ravnica, since clearly WAR started after Isperia's death, but no, that isn't the case. The Gruul riots and Kaya forgiving Orzhov debts all happen after her death.

Though it isn't stated, I suspect Ral traveled to Fiora (setting of Conspiracy).
 

JustinBailey

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,596
I would much rather Arena flowed into paper than the other way around. I strongly dislike the Arena experience - and I don't think more features or sets will pull me away from paper. I'm happy they are finally getting digital somewhat right - but for me the only real upside is the GUI is like 1000x better than other iterations. For the game - the upside is learning for new players and also trying new things - which I'm happy about - but I think Wizards / Hasbro need to realize an all digital future is not the ideal, nor should they shoot for it. And they are alarmingly silent on this front - probably because $$$ and corporate bs. Just my 2 cents tho.
 
Oct 28, 2017
6,119
The gate does count in the 99, but that was the first thing I brought up too. Having one land on board for free that has both of your colors feels a bit overboard for sure.

Still trying to wrap my head around which mono color commanders could be broken with the addition of one color. There has to be some super obvious ones I'm missing...

Counting in the 99 is even better. You can cut something else and essentially run a 98 card deck.

Any deck you run should run no more than 32 lands. Possibly less.

You should have him cut that rule. It's stupid and throws off the balance.
 

Imperfected

Member
Nov 9, 2017
11,737
Yeah, I've got no idea why he would want to give you free color fixing/ramp for 2-color decks. They honestly run fine off basics.

Like, does your friend just build decks with way too greedy mana bases and needs a rule to compensate specifically for that?
 

A_Dang

Member
Oct 27, 2017
262
Western New York
it's either going to be adding U to G or G to U

Selvala #2 comes to mind as does yisan. For mono U of course Urza would benefit a ton from black but costing 5 would be stretching it. Kiki Jiki also gets a lot from another colour, Godo with white would let you do even more equipment instant win shenanigans and you could run grand arbiter at that point.
I was considering doing a Sram deck with either U or R. This is the same group that did a $20 budget Commander deck night where I built a Jhoira Historic Storm deck that generated too much value for people to keep up with. I thought going approximately the same route with Sram could work...and it would be fairly budget. Selvala #2 and Urza are too pricy for my tastes for a one off deck.

I could do a jank and budget Yisan though, that was my second thought.

Yeah, I've got no idea why he would want to give you free color fixing/ramp for 2-color decks. They honestly run fine off basics.

Like, does your friend just build decks with way too greedy mana bases and needs a rule to compensate specifically for that?
I think the idea really is just to speed up games, so more people can play more people with the decks they build for the event. I don't think he realizes how much that one change can impact deck construction. Removing that change was my first thought.
 

Imperfected

Member
Nov 9, 2017
11,737
Probably so. Like, I could see wanting to have a free dual land in play if you're in an environment where everyone's running 4- or 5-color decks, so maybe it's something he came up with when he was thinking people would playing full rainbow rather than mono-plus-one?

But yeah, it's got ridiculous potential for degeneracy. You're going to have games effectively over on Turn 2 if you aren't careful.
 

Shuckle

Member
Mar 30, 2018
414
If you could add one color to any mono-color Commander, which would be the most broken?

A friend is planning a Commander get together with these modifications:


This seems like it may be misguided in the best way possible, and I'm looking for some ideas...

Pretty weird, but I probably would do Godo with green ramp. You just need to get to 5RG + 5 for Helm of the Host and you win. Green ramp is generally pretty inexpensive and also has artifact/enchantment removal, regrowth effects to protect your combo.
 

TAFAE

Member
Aug 27, 2018
439
Michigan
Not sure if you all watched much of SCG Dallas, but Stoneforge Mystic didn't seem all that impressive there. I'm sure she'll find a home or two as people refine their decks instead of jamming her in any midrange or control deck running white. Burn doing well is never going to be a big surprise in a new meta, but it does seem like Burn poses questions that SFM should be well equipped to answer and yet there were still 3 Burn decks in the top 8 and no copies of SFM.

Also the RB Midrange brew(?) that made the top 8 was sweet. Seems like a decent place for anyone who was on Mardu Pyromancer to migrate to if the deck is well and truly dead.
 

onpoint

Neon Deity Games
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
14,990
716
Too many decks play too many answers to what SFM does, which is why it was always bonkers that it was banned for so long. I think SFM is going to eventually find a home in some sort of grindy control shell, but I don't think a dedicated SFM plan is ever going to work as a tier 1 strategy with Modern's speed and relative power level.

Someone get Caw Blade going already.
 

Hero

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,813
Burn always does well in a new meta because people haven't solved it. I expect some UWx Stoneforge deck to be a pillar before long. The format has slowed down significantly with Faithless being banned.
 
ELD - Oko, Thief of Crowns
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SigmasonicX

SigmasonicX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,531
EDj9OzGXoAEpMxQ.png

IMG-20190903-WA0001.jpg


Turns out he was just two colors, lol
Interesting card. First of all, there's the Food token. Obviously this is for breadcrumbs and other classic fairy tale food. It's probably an artifact that sacrifices for 2 life, but will have a lot of cards that interact with it. I wonder if Gingerbrute will have the Food type.

It looks like blue transforming effects now just make a creature into something, instead of exiling the creature and making a token. This means flickering / returning to hand will save it now. Maybe we'll see an overlay card for this.

And the flavor of exchanging Food for a creature or turning Food into an Elk is fun.
 

ZealousD

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,303
I don't think it makes too much sense to have an artifact that just sacs to gain life unless you're specifically looking to do something degenerate like an affinity theme. If you want a design to gain life, then just do regular ole' lifegain.

A +1/+1 counter theme seems more likely but even then i'm not super happy with that. Maybe a food token is more modular and gives you options?

Food does nothing on its own. Just a lot of payoff cards.

That sounds an awful lot like energy.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,772
People loved Clue tokens. I'm guessing Food will have similar play patterns (although I assume it doesn't sac to draw a card).
 

Schreckstoff

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,618
it can't be a strong effect, Oko is a 4 loyalty walker for 3 mana with a +2 making a food token. That limits the effect if it has one to amount to minimal value.
 

Deleted member 2809

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
25,478
I'm guessing the welcome home part is from the GY otherwise the cards suck ass for an unco imo, unless there is a big enchantment theme.
 
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SigmasonicX

SigmasonicX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,531
This is a weird one. Most likely it's a split card, one half a creature one half a sorcery.

Welcome Home is a weird name. Perhaps it's on the villains of fairy tales, and Welcome Home represents the hero returning home safely. In this case, the heroes are the bears. It's hard to imagine this name being reused, which is surprising for a highly demanded effect like creature-spell split cards.

EDIT: Actually wait, this follows similar formatting to Aftermath. It probably is cast from the graveyard, with the Welcome Home cost peeking out from your graveyard pile.
 

ZealousD

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,303
Maybe it doesn't involve the graveyard at all. Maybe you sacrifice the creature in order to put the Adventure spell on the stack?

I feel like the name "Adventure" pushes it out of the graveyard space. I think the flavor is that the creature goes away and something happens. The creature leaves to go on an adventure.
 

Deleted member 2809

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
25,478
The rate on the creature here makes me think adventure is cast after the creature is dead, either just from GY or with something else idk, but the creature just sucks major ass for it to be just a split card (+ it's not evenly split)
 

ZealousD

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,303
The limitations of putting a split card with aftermath on a creature feels more like a frame/graphic design issue than a rules issue. But they're expending the effort to create a whole new subtype for sorceries in order to do this, so I feel like it there has to be more rules baggage than just doing aftermath with a creature.
 

Schreckstoff

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,618
Cast adventures from the GY only would just be aftermath. Which would be weird to repeat such a recent mechanic in almost identical fashion
 
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SigmasonicX

SigmasonicX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,531
sigmasonicx asked:
With Oko revealed, he has an effect that has a creature or artifact "become" an Elk. Is this a general replacement for blue's "exile creature, its controller creates a token" effects?

A new way to try a transformation effect.
19 notes

Sounds like they're trying it out, but it may not go on common effects for now.

madchemist73 asked:
Will we be able to eat the delicious food tokens?

We might not have thought this through. : )
34 notes

gridnack asked:
Are food tokens artifacts or new permanent types?
They're artifact tokens.
24 notes
 
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