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MA Democratic Congressional Candidate Alex Morse has been accused of inappropriate conduct with students Up: Accusations Possibly Orchestrated
- Thread starter jack_package_200
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https://theintercept.com/2020/08/12/alex-morse-college-democrats-chats/
hmmm this seems like it might raise some additional questions
hmmm this seems like it might raise some additional questions
OP
OP
Congrats on falling for a homophobic smear campaign, y'all. We did it!
Sure, but I'm not sure how much that would help with this scenario. Female educators taking advantage of their students is not a rare occurrence either.
any sort of relationship between a professor and a student is typically frowned upon, it definitely shows some serious lack of judgement even if it was technically not illegal or against school policy.
god damn, he met students through college Democrat events and added them and then DM'ed.
the college democrats group said he had numerous inappropriate contacts and used apps to reach out to students as young as 18.
College Democrats allege inappropriate behavior between Holyoke Mayor Alex Morse and college students
“I want to be clear that every relationship I’ve had has been consensual. However, I also recognize that I have to be cognizant of my position of power,” Morse said in the statement.
dailycollegian.com
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college dems saying they were not used by the Neal group to release this information.
Justice Democrats still backing Holyoke mayor despite accusation of inappropriate relationships
The progressive political action committee endorsed Morse against Rep. Richard Neal a year ago.
www.masslive.com
Congrats on falling for a homophobic smear campaign, y'all. We did it!
Their events director claims he was not involved in writing the letter, as Grim originally alledged
(@MassDems State Committee member and @CollegeDemsOfMA events director. Organizing for @EdMarkey and @Becca_Rausch)
The student Grim attacks did not, in fact, have ANYTHING to do with writing the letter. Also, that student is a real person with real feelings. I wonder if people have considered the effect their attacks are having on him.
I don't trust anything coming out of the Intercept on this issue at this point, all of the "reporting" from Grim on this has been discovering facts about what things "were like over there" but very little actual information on the sequence of events in question
And honestly?
Morse should not have been dating students
no, considering they did actual journalism here it's an exclusive
that's traditionally how this works
This is not journalism, its gossipmongering. What they have established is that some members of the leadership liked Neal, and some of them didn't like Morse, and that at least two of them saw an opportunity to release a claim that Morse was inappropriate to the press. Notice how that's not what happened, and how other members of the org are saying that Ennis at least wasn't involved in the letter.
it doesn't seem like you read the article carefully enough, i'd recommend going back and look at the part where it deals with the incident this letter was ostensibly motivated by.
No I read the piece. Its that ostensibly that's doing all the work here. There's a big gaping hole between Ennis being a dick with those DMs and talking about how he's going to "leak them to the press" and the leadership team composing a letter disinviting him from future events, especially when other members of the leadership team claim Ennis wasn't involved and Morse has admitted to having relationships with students back when he was an adjunct. There's too many missing pieces here for Grim to smugly say "ah hah I have unmasked the hit job, it was those scheming students all along"
OP
OP
Let's assume those texts in the Intercept article are legit and this Ennis person is a fraud.
Why on earth was Morse sliding into the dms of students?
Why on earth was Morse sliding into the dms of students?
I don't vote in MA-1, and while I'd probably support Neal, I find Morses statement genuine. Are there any allegations that these relationships weren't consensual, or is the understanding here that because he was a professor and they were students (whether his students or not) they can't be consensual? I find the comment that because he grew up in Holyoke when he came out he was eager for relationships kind of disingenuous. Sure, Holyoke is a small town, but it's a very, very progressive town, home to My Holyoke one of the most progressive communities in America, next door to Amherst another one of the most progressive schools in the country, and of course borders the town of Amherst, Hadley, Northampton, etc, which are all very progressive, welcoming towns, even when I was college age 10 years before him.
I worked in higher Ed and met my wife, who was a grad student, though I wasn't a professor or relevant administrator for any of her academics. I don't think that dating students as a professor should disqualify someone from office. I think it's a shitty things to do if you are dating students in your class that you teach, there's clearly perverse incentives there for the professor and student. I think as a matter of academic behavior that is wrong, and professors who do that (... There are many, sadly. You work in higher ed long enough you end up knowing a dozen profs who have dated or married students, and vice versa) should receive some academic punishment.
But I don't think it should disqualify a candidate from office, unless these relationships aren't consensual. Still I'd probably support Neal if I voted in MA-1, largely because he's been the most progressive member of the House Ways and Means, chaired the committee, and he's a committed liberal in the house and arguably the most powerful progressive on economic policy in the country. If I voted in MA-1 that gives an outsized influence to a fairly underserved community (Springfield and surrounding towns are fairly routinely forgotten in MA politics which is Boston heavy).
And still leave it to the Intercept to just stoop so low and drag in ridiculous what-aboutism of Buttigieg and his husband. It's like... Just make the case why it's not consequential, instead of bringing up someone who isn't at all relevant to the MA-1 House race, a mayor of a town halfway across the country that is like a quarter of the size of MA-1.
If it's his own students then I think that shifts the power dynamics. I don't think it becomes non-consenting, but bad form as a professor for that student and the other students In class. Still, it's common and sometimes these come up in faculty reviews and the professors can be punished for it, though I wouldn't say that's necessarily often either. Again I know too many professors who slept with, had relationships with, and occasionally married students (and vice versa)....some of whom were probably when they had a professor/student relationships. Still, I think that's wrong from a point of view of academic credibility. It's risky behavior for the professor as well who could end up teaching one of those students in the future, even if they're not teaching them that semester.
I worked in higher Ed and met my wife, who was a grad student, though I wasn't a professor or relevant administrator for any of her academics. I don't think that dating students as a professor should disqualify someone from office. I think it's a shitty things to do if you are dating students in your class that you teach, there's clearly perverse incentives there for the professor and student. I think as a matter of academic behavior that is wrong, and professors who do that (... There are many, sadly. You work in higher ed long enough you end up knowing a dozen profs who have dated or married students, and vice versa) should receive some academic punishment.
But I don't think it should disqualify a candidate from office, unless these relationships aren't consensual. Still I'd probably support Neal if I voted in MA-1, largely because he's been the most progressive member of the House Ways and Means, chaired the committee, and he's a committed liberal in the house and arguably the most powerful progressive on economic policy in the country. If I voted in MA-1 that gives an outsized influence to a fairly underserved community (Springfield and surrounding towns are fairly routinely forgotten in MA politics which is Boston heavy).
And still leave it to the Intercept to just stoop so low and drag in ridiculous what-aboutism of Buttigieg and his husband. It's like... Just make the case why it's not consequential, instead of bringing up someone who isn't at all relevant to the MA-1 House race, a mayor of a town halfway across the country that is like a quarter of the size of MA-1.
If it's his own students then I think that shifts the power dynamics. I don't think it becomes non-consenting, but bad form as a professor for that student and the other students In class. Still, it's common and sometimes these come up in faculty reviews and the professors can be punished for it, though I wouldn't say that's necessarily often either. Again I know too many professors who slept with, had relationships with, and occasionally married students (and vice versa)....some of whom were probably when they had a professor/student relationships. Still, I think that's wrong from a point of view of academic credibility. It's risky behavior for the professor as well who could end up teaching one of those students in the future, even if they're not teaching them that semester.
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Honestly? No, depending on how Morse handles it it absolutely doesn't need to be disqualifying from office. It's not like he's accused of assaulting anyone, although I do think that it's a serious lapse in judgement to sleep with anyone you have any sort of power or mentor relationship over. I don't even think I've seen that many people calling for him to drop out or anything. The only reason I'm even aware of this is because when it came out a ton of people seemingly lost their shit at the implication that he had done anything wrong or had anything to apologize for, seemingly aghast at the idea that a relationship between a teacher and student, or a political figure and students with political ambitions, might even be slightly inappropriate. There's a version of events where Morse owns this, apologizes, speaks truthfully about learning about boundaries as he's gotten older and maybe the election isn't affected all that much. My perception of this is that it got Streisand-effected way out of scale and ironically not by Morse himself but by some incredibly loud people online
I'm not pissed off because Morse isn't in jail or anything stupid like that. I'm pissed off because he did screw up, seriously, seemingly repeatedly over the course of many years if his own statements about sleeping with students as an adjunct are correct, and the response from everyone involved in defending him has been the absolute wrong move at like every turn
The Intercept is a legitimate news source that did all the legwork on the reporting here. Denying the story because you don't like the ideology of the outlet it came from is embarassing
The left needs to learn the long history of gay men and black men being oppressed through false allegations and make note that it can still happen.
Fuck the notion that asking to spend time with someone in a non-sexual way is a gross sexual harassment just because it comes from an icky gay man or a scary black man.
We can believe victims and be on the lookout for these harmful stereotypes at the same time. We just really need to have more information than that manipulatively worded letter gave us to act. I think it any pulling back from him because of this letter was a mistake that shouldn't have needed this intercept article to catch.
Fuck the notion that asking to spend time with someone in a non-sexual way is a gross sexual harassment just because it comes from an icky gay man or a scary black man.
We can believe victims and be on the lookout for these harmful stereotypes at the same time. We just really need to have more information than that manipulatively worded letter gave us to act. I think it any pulling back from him because of this letter was a mistake that shouldn't have needed this intercept article to catch.
Sure seems like it. To continue this thread based on what appears to be a homophobic smear attempt sure is a bummer. A mod should update the OP.
This whole thing reeks of homophobia that cishet ppl are all too happy to engage in. This pedophile homo driving around campus in an ice cream truck with his dick in his hands, oh no!
OP
OP
100% agreed, the article is not sufficient as an exoneration
I have issues with the outlet from the way it has conducted itself previously. They unnecessarily burned the leaker Reality Winner who is now in prison. They published Christine Blassy Ford's allegation when her original intention was for the allegation not to go public. She didn't want the spotlight and the abuse that came from it.
i think the OP trying to double down on this homophobic dog-whistle bullshit that is nothing more than a gotcha attempt to smear and attack the left flank of the party with deeply queerphobic undertones and it's shameful beyond belief. we get it: you hate the left and you're willing to use the right-wing's anti-LGBT smear tactics to try and take them down. as a queer person i'm disgusted and this only further stigmatizes the use of these dating apps and resources which are a lifeline for the gay community that has historically always been excluded from spaces for "traditional" dating. glad to see this bullshit backfire and people calling it out for what it is
We live in a time of purity. God forbid any potential candidate has a Compuserve dating application.
The Intercept is barely above The National Enquirer (who broke the John Edwards scandal). Don't confuse getting some news-worthy content sometimes with "being legitimate." I guess they don't publish many things quite as absurd as "Michael Jackson is an alien from the 7th planet orbiting a supermassive black hole and was recently spotted in Hawaii!" but they should definitely be a banned source. Their news reporters stand so firmly behind their work that as soon as things don't go their way, they delete any mentions of those stories from their social media and pretend like they never happened.
The intercept is above the national enquirer, that's not a good comparison They've done reporting that is generally very very good and dangerous reporting on really risky subjects that would make their journalists targets for assassination.
But the intercept has also been willing to be co-opted by foreign intelligence services in order to get a story out that they can't independently verify is true or not, and they run them anyway because they *sound true.* Greenwald in particular seems to have a blindspot for stories that are planted by foreign intelligence services, and because the nature of a major intelligence scoop is hard to verify, he runs them anyway. They also signal boost stories and perspectives by sundry characters because they build into a wider narrative that the intercept thinks is anti-imperialism, but ultimately ends up enabling dictators and autocrats who coopt the intercept by acting anti-imperialist.
But the intercept has also been willing to be co-opted by foreign intelligence services in order to get a story out that they can't independently verify is true or not, and they run them anyway because they *sound true.* Greenwald in particular seems to have a blindspot for stories that are planted by foreign intelligence services, and because the nature of a major intelligence scoop is hard to verify, he runs them anyway. They also signal boost stories and perspectives by sundry characters because they build into a wider narrative that the intercept thinks is anti-imperialism, but ultimately ends up enabling dictators and autocrats who coopt the intercept by acting anti-imperialist.
I think the reason this thread has so few replies is because
- it's generally accepted that college students are adults that have sexual agency
- relationships between undergraduate students, grad students, postdocs, and staff are not uncommon, and depending on circumstances might not involve a substantial age gap
- most university guidelines state exactly what the UMASS handbook says - don't get involved with people whose grades or careers are in your hands because of the potential conflict of interest and power dynamics
In the realm of political scandals, a single guy in his late 20s dating people in their early 20s doesn't really move the needle.
I'd love some examples of them being barely above the National Enquier
i think you're taking the bait by allowing the subject to be changed to a general conversation about The Intercept. there is nothing about the reporting in this instance that's under question— this is simply a brazen attempt to change the subject to avoid taking accountability for engaging in a coordinated smear campaign with deeply homophobic undertones
Personally I think professors dating any undergrads is unethical. Professors dating staff, postdocs, or grad students from another department? Generally not a problem. But undergrads? Especially like 18-19 year old undergrads? That's unethical, not illegal, but unethical.
Now if this turns out not to be true, that's an entirely different matter. Pretty fucked up if this is actually just a smear campaign.
I don't care about taking bait or leaving it.
This isn't some argument I'm trying to win or lose like a Twitter shouting match. Someone said the Intercept is on the same level as the National Enquirer, and while I'm typically critical of the Intercept and Greenwald in particular, I disagree with that characterization so I'm going to post why I disagree with that.
Whether that helps or hurts an argument you're trying to win or not is irrelevant to why I'd challenge the statement that The intercept is on par with the national enquirer.
Ryan Grim's Tara Reade stuff (including his social media that he deleted with the quickness) was pure bush league tbh.
by the way, the gall you must have to go after The Intercept's reporting (which has now been shared and highlighted by several reporters from larger media outlets including NYT, WaPo) while signal boosting a story that was passed over by multiple mainstream media outlets (wapo, etc.) because of how shaky and questionable it was
And the new revelation that the accusations of impropriety may have been engineered specifically to derail his political career?
kinda wish a lot of the folks who were defending him from the get go on twitter had waited until it was revealed to be a sting instead of spending a solid week arguing that the faculty member attending a student group's events and treating it as a meet market was perfectly fine and cool, especially when the initial letter was literally wasn't even like... asking him to resign from his faculty position or his mayoral position or even drop out of the race, it was literally just "hey dude who is a member of the faculty here don't come to our student organization events if you're gonna come and hit on students."
idk like "it was a smear, he wasn't actually doing the thing he was accused of doing" is a much better position to be in and argue from than "it was a smear, he did the things they're accusing him of but those things are perfectly fine" imo
he probably should stop fucking students at the college he is employed at though tbh
idk like "it was a smear, he wasn't actually doing the thing he was accused of doing" is a much better position to be in and argue from than "it was a smear, he did the things they're accusing him of but those things are perfectly fine" imo
he probably should stop fucking students at the college he is employed at though tbh
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OP
OP
1. I admit fault. I was wrong on this, even if I have issues with ethical decisions of the Intercept, I should not have been so dismissive
2. I have requested a temp ban to take time away and reflect on myself
2. I have requested a temp ban to take time away and reflect on myself
Okay, great. I think you should also reflect on why you continuously attack leftists. That's why this thread was made. Not because you were concerned with power dynamics. Not because you were concerned with predatory behavior. But because the person you made the thread about was a leftist.
Definitely... I get that punching left is often easier, but it's absolutely destructive and politically unproductive in comparison to facing up to our real enemies.
This is not the left. This is straight liberalism/centrism. There is a very real history of liberalism attacking the left, especially on this forum.
Maybe on here, but I absolutely saw Leftists on Twitter very concerned about consensual sexual relationships between two legal adults.
While I don't know the particulars of his appointment, I do think there is a noticeable difference between an adjunct professor and a full time professor.
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