• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.

Veelk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,720
51gytew6oAL.jpg


Poor wittle baby Ben didnt destroy the temple! It was Palpy! Or Snoke...or his subconcious maybe, its vague but he didn't mean to! Everyone just keeps blaming him! Look what THEY made him do!
The-Rise-of-Kylo-Ren-1.jpg


The entire comic frames Kylo Ren as everyone not bothering to listen to him, blaming him, and then finally breaking down enough to kill one (1) Padawan that followed him seeking revenge for what he didn't do.

And don't you even try that "but he can used the lightning subconciously so he caused it all!" because that makes it all a terrible accident and removes all responsibility from his actions, much unlike what TLJ states.
I was clearly responding to Winny's implication that the Luke-Ben scene in TLJ was written for the purpose of absolving Ben.

If we're talking EU bullshit and TRoS, then I agree, yeah, and they suck for it. But TLJ obviously doesn't do this and I've never seen a real argument from anyone who thinks it did.
 

Einchy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
42,659
even if Veelk was not talking exlusively about TLJ

i dont know how what you just posted makes it "blameless" and "removes al responsibility"
Yeah, the darkside in him destroys the temple, even if he didn't do it purposely, but then he 100% jumps into that side of him by the end.

ltpkDd3.jpg
sI87KOO.jpg


By the end of the comic you can see that it starts in a place where he can be redeemed if he pushes the dark away but he doesn't. Like Kylo in TFA and TLJ, he does not want redemption and does everything he can to make himself as blameful as possible.

I agree that it's different than the school shooter we thought he was back before the comic but I also don't think this makes him seem blameless or that he's actually good all along, quite the opposite.
 

Fj0823

Legendary Duelist
Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,688
Costa Rica
I sincerely hope they erase that Rise of Kylo Ren comic from canon at some point. Some of the worst canon content to date.

I agree, let me be the first to say that comics have been incredibly solid even when they try crazy stuff.

But TROKR is some BS that pushes the toxic "Look what YOU made me do" mentality I sincerely hope it gets some major reworks.

Back on topic, I can't be the only one that feels variety reporting on this is kinda iffy. Like how in the world is twitter drama making headlines?
 

krazen

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,242
Gentrified Brooklyn
For sure, there's something especially toxic about the SW fan base for whatever reason. There's hugely sexist elements in every fandom for a big mainstream thing but there's something about SW that makes people latch onto even the smallest gripe with a film and feel the need to either harass people who worked on the film about it or at least bring it up every time even the most loosely related SW discussion happens. And it works for trolling the people who did like the thing these people don't like and the TLJ discourse and harassment just repeats over and over because toxic "fans" love to be toxic and not just accept that it's fine that they didn't like a thing other people liked and move on.

Yup. They built an identity on hating the films, there's no love there, just a place where they can tunnel in their dark urges so its not surprising it slides into your normal internet cesspools of bigoted thought.

You have to understand that Luke was my childhood, he helped me survive a decade as a homeless orphan. I used to sneak into the warm cinemas to watch his adventures. When Owen and Beru died, I could see myself in Luke. I was Luke, Luke was me. Yoda was the mentor I never had, Han was the rebel I wish I could be, Leia the sister I wish I could f.. never mind. Star Wars taught me to follow the light side, a life lesson nobody else could teach me.

What happened in The Mandalorian was something I had waited 30 years to see: Luke destroying bionicles. To see his face again, my face again! A charismatic young man coming to get a baby version of Yoda from a silver Boba Fett. I had lost all hope after TLJ, but dreams do come true!
Fucking fantastic
 

HeavenlyOne

The Fallen
Nov 30, 2017
2,366
Your heart
You have to understand that Luke was my childhood, he helped me survive a decade as a homeless orphan. I used to sneak into the warm cinemas to watch his adventures. When Owen and Beru died, I could see myself in Luke. I was Luke, Luke was me. Yoda was the mentor I never had, Han was the rebel I wish I could be, Leia the sister I wish I could f..

200.gif
 

CloudWolf

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,673
Everything about this is silly.

Yeah, the darkside in him destroys the temple, even if he didn't do it purposely, but then he 100% jumps into that side of him by the end.

ltpkDd3.jpg
sI87KOO.jpg


By the end of the comic you can see that it starts in a place where he can be redeemed if he pushes the dark away but he doesn't. Like Kylo in TFA and TLJ, he does not want redemption and does everything he can to make himself as blameful as possible.

I agree that it's different than the school shooter we thought he was back before the comic but I also don't think this makes him seem blameless or that he's actually good all along, quite the opposite.
Good lord, that second panel has some awful art.
 

Veelk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,720
Yeah, the darkside in him destroys the temple, even if he didn't do it purposely, but then he 100% jumps into that side of him by the end.

ltpkDd3.jpg
sI87KOO.jpg


By the end of the comic you can see that it starts in a place where he can be redeemed if he pushes the dark away but he doesn't. Like Kylo in TFA and TLJ, he does not want redemption and does everything he can to make himself as blameful as possible.

I agree that it's different than the school shooter we thought he was back before the comic but I also don't think this makes him seem blameless or that he's actually good all along, quite the opposite.
It's...less bad that the comic doesn't do a full retcon of the scene like it's popularly known to be, but it still justifies me not wanting to read EU stuff. Writers tend ways of overcomplicating and making these story beats less elegant without meaningfully adding to them. I don't get why this comic exists. What do we gain that we wouldn't have by seeing the precise steps that Kylo Ren falls to the dark side as opposed to just taking the visual implications we see in TLJ? It seems so pointless to me.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,081
Geez. I was completely unaware of st theory guy before a couple months ago, started watching some videos for mandalorian news while I did chores, and soon as he made some comments about Kathleen Kennedy's remarks about wanting to have more diverse and female-driven directors do Star Wars being problematic (the usual "it's about merit" argument) I immediately realized what nonsense it was all a part of.
 

Yukari

Member
Mar 28, 2018
11,735
Thailand
The rise of Kylo Ren's story is one of many things that JJ retcon from TLJ.

In TLJ, Luke was said that Ben Bring the other students to go with him.
 

PeskyToaster

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,316
Personally I don't pay attention to anything in the comics or novelizations. I still structure it like the old EU. The movies (and I guess TV shows) are canon. Everything else can ignored or taken as canon if it's good, which it probably won't be.
 

Garlador

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
14,131
It's also a little weird to cry over a show about space wizards, yet here we are
I won't be a hypocrite here, because I think EVERYONE has something that they're passionate about that is, ultimately, just entertainment or performance. People get emotionally invested in stories - even (or especially) works of fiction. Some of the most influential works in human history were works of fiction - from 1984 to Fahrenheit 451 to The Jungle, etc. We've had comics for centuries and theater performances that have moved and astonished the public. Movies that resonate with people are worth talking about... but it's the negative reactions that are also worth discussing. People get invested in sports and going wild when their team plays, etc.

I just have to remember to try stick to the "constructive criticism" or general discourse of a work and refrain from falling into a pointless diatribe or personal attacks. There are certain works I'm not exactly fond of. I legitimately am not that fond of The Last Jedi, but it doesn't bother me that it exists. I respect what it attempted to do, while disagreeing with the execution and final result. There are things I legitimately HATE - from Metroid: Other M to Spider-Man: One More Day - but even then I try and refrain from holding one single individual responsible nor do I wish to seek out those involved and shame them or harass them.

Because so much of these things are collaborative works. Small armies bring these things to life, and it's a miracle anytime anything actually gets made. I remember reading about a studio executive who would always applaud at the end of a film - even bad ones - because he knew how hard it was to get it made; from concept pitches to script drafts to budgeting to casting to scene scouting to scheduling to filming to editing to score composing, etc. He believed that even the worst film had redeeming elements in them.

This is a long-winded way of saying we all have our "shows about space wizards" blind spots. I'm passionate about fantastical stuff - from comics to games to movies to cartoons.

It's not immature to like these things. It's not immature to be upset with these things. It's not immature to cry about these things.

It's only immature to take that disappointment and not digest it in a healthy way, and to instead lash out at those that made it in ways that aren't constructive and are solely fueled by spite and hate.
 

Fj0823

Legendary Duelist
Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,688
Costa Rica
Personally I don't pay attention to anything in the comics or novelizations. I still structure it like the old EU. The movies (and I guess TV shows) are canon. Everything else can ignored or taken as canon if it's good, which it probably won't be.

Hey, operation cinder is canon, came from comics and it was pretty cool....until TROS made it the dumbest move Palpy ever made
 
Oct 30, 2017
614
I don't understand why Lucasfilm or anyone there even acknowledged this type of crybaby nonsense.

What is the guy gonna do? Stop watching Star Wars? Organize a boycott? Like these weirdos could stay away.

Would've been smarter to just ignore. Shouldn't have given it any oxygen.
 

Inyourprime

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,233
I don't understand why Lucasfilm or anyone there even acknowledged this type of crybaby nonsense.

What is the guy gonna do? Stop watching Star Wars? Organize a boycott? Like these weirdos could stay away.

Would've been smarter to just ignore. Shouldn't have given it any oxygen.

Doubt that would've been possible with this guy and his 2m subscribers.
 

lunarworks

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,242
Toronto
I don't understand why Lucasfilm or anyone there even acknowledged this type of crybaby nonsense.

What is the guy gonna do? Stop watching Star Wars? Organize a boycott? Like these weirdos could stay away.

Would've been smarter to just ignore. Shouldn't have given it any oxygen.
After the fan outrage fiasco that bombed Ghostbusters (2016), and the years-long whinefest after TLJ, studio execs are very shy of upsetting the fanbase too much. It's pathetic, but it's the reality. Especially in this current state of affairs where you can't rely on the box office.
 
Oct 30, 2017
614
After the fan outrage fiasco that bombed Ghostbusters (2016), and the years-long whinefest after TLJ, studio execs are very shy of upsetting the fanbase too much. It's pathetic, but it's the reality. Especially in this current state of affairs where you can't rely on the box office.

Star Wars was slowly dying because it was for old people. Mando brought it back to a newer, younger, and wider audience - it revived it. Lucas would be best served to ignore that old toxic audience and focus on the new audience they have started to build.

The old hardcore audience actively hurts bringing new people in - who the hell wants to be associated with that? It's an insular whine fest.
 

Dekuman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,028
Okay but what are he and his 2M+ army gonna do? Destroy Star Wars?
They are gonna harass no matter what. There's no satisfying them. Engaging this toxicity only emboldens them. Should have just ignored them / laughed about how juvenile these morons are.
They won't do shit. As I pointed out, he rides the line between super fan and toxic fan hard and despite flirting with and giving voice to the toxic elements of his fan base, he and his fans are too much of a fan to disown Disney era content. They will be there day 1 for the next SW TV show looking for barbs to use against Kathleen Kennedy and their perceived enemies at Lucasfilm.
 

RSTEIN

Member
Nov 13, 2017
1,876
It's also a little weird to cry over a show about space wizards, yet here we are

This is a really bad take. I don't think you should mock anyone who has managed to find a bit of joy in this world, whether it be in poetry, relationships, family, video games, art, cinema, or even space wizards. Think about how tough, cruel and miserable the world can be at times. Then think about how many things make you truly elated to the point of an intense emotional response. You could probably count them on one hand. For this person that thing is Star Wars. And that's great. You don't get it, which is fine, but nobody should be mocked for finding joy.
 

MarcelloF

"This guy are sick"
Member
Dec 9, 2020
7,507
SWT: How can I milk this more?


I couldn't bother watching past one minute of that video, but I checked out the description since the title told me to:
Let me ask you something...If a girl was crying over Ahsoka's return, let's say, then everyone would be calling her brave for showing her emotions.
I rolled my eyes. Who would think a little girl crying over Ahsoka is "brave" specifically? I'd think "Awww" and chuckle, because it'd be cute to see a little kid so happy over something. Bravery wouldn't be the first thought in my mind.

I don't have a problem with crying over movies or TV. Hell, just a few days ago Soul made me cry. I don't really think this scene warrants crying, but if it makes you happy, whatever. I do think he's putting on a show for attention, though.
 

lunarworks

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,242
Toronto
Star Wars was slowly dying because it was for old people. Mando brought it back to a newer, younger, and wider audience - it revived it. Lucas would be best served to ignore that old toxic audience and focus on the new audience they have started to build.

The old hardcore audience actively hurts bringing new people in - who the hell wants to be associated with that? It's an insular whine fest.
But that's what I'm saying. Studio execs are terrified of that old fanbase, and that's what's holding everything back. Imagine where things could be today if everything didn't have to explicitly revolve around 9 characters from 40 years ago.
 
Oct 30, 2017
614
But that's what I'm saying. Studio execs are terrified of that old fanbase, and that's what's holding everything back. Imagine where things could be today if everything didn't have to explicitly revolve around 9 characters from 40 years ago.

Totally get it.

They just have nothing to be terrified of. Maybe it's because all the execs are from an older generation and take social media to seriously. They just don't understand how trivial social media actually is.
 

Fj0823

Legendary Duelist
Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,688
Costa Rica
The Lego holiday special?

I will not allow any slander to that Masterpiece

But that's what I'm saying. Studio execs are terrified of that old fanbase, and that's what's holding everything back. Imagine where things could be today if everything didn't have to explicitly revolve around 9 characters from 40 years ago.

I'll say it, they kind of sealed their fate in the lead up to TFA by appealing to these assholes. Their entire marketing reeked of "YOU the TRUE fans get the STAR WARS you want just like YOU remembered!" and stoked the flames thinking they could control it.

I mean look at this shit:



Tell me they weren't speaking directly to the idiots making these memes back in '12:
68857ece2d44643012cc6825e982f841.jpg


In hindsight, it's clear they really were afraid of getting the "Plinkett" treatment, and in the end their insistence on pleasing these assholes made the reaction to their trilogy not only worse, but they basically let those "fans" write the final entry in the saga lmao

They should've taken a page from George Lucas's book of not giving a single fuck.
 
Last edited:

AnimaRize

Banned
Nov 7, 2020
3,483
After the fan outrage fiasco that bombed Ghostbusters (2016), and the years-long whinefest after TLJ, studio execs are very shy of upsetting the fanbase too much. It's pathetic, but it's the reality. Especially in this current state of affairs where you can't rely on the box office.
Well star wars fans do actually vote with their wallets, and there is enough that do that which causes disney to take notice of the criticism and try to fix whatever the problem is. Disney has been on course correct mode for the sequel trilogy.

There is a reason why there is very few new sequel trilogy merch, like they are going to release dark Rey and that is about it. It's mostly mandalorian merch going forward because that sells.

And again all of this is moot this wouldn't be happening if pablo hidalgo didn't make a "men shouldn't have emotions" joke from the word go. He should know better given his position. He should know better that wasn't okay under any circumstance but did it anyway, especially towards this fanbase. The backlash was obvious, and sarcastic or not it was going to be taken the wrong way.
 

lunarworks

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,242
Toronto
Totally get it.

They just have nothing to be terrified of. Maybe it's because all the execs are from an older generation and take social media to seriously. They just don't understand how trivial social media actually is.
I can have an effect, though. The avalanche of negative reviews and impressions of Ghostbusters (2016), by manbabies who hadn't even seen it yet, did sour the public's impression of the film, turning a significant amount of the casual audience away from it.
 

ultracal31

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,620
I do think he's putting on a show for attention, though

At this point it is despite the fact the video being labeled "the final word" I get the feeling he'll make another as it is probably the most attention he's got in a while for his channel which equals clicks

I'm peeved he's a local too but that's another topic
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
116,157
I find it kind of hilarious that people are acting like the Mandalorian is some kind of "bringing Star Wars to a new generation" thing, when all it is is just more Dave Filoni continuity porn with one of the blandest protagonists of all time.

The fact of the matter is that Filoni is just BETTER at doing what JJ Abrams is bad at - tickling people's nostalgia nerves in the right way rather than a stupid way. Of course people respond to it better than garbage like Rise of Skywalker.
 
Oct 30, 2017
614
I can have an effect, though. The avalanche of negative reviews and impressions of Ghostbusters (2016), by manbabies who hadn't even seen it yet, did sour the public's impression of the film, turning a significant amount of the casual audience away from it.

If Star Wars is relying on box office numbers from an aging fan base going forward they are in for a world of hurt.

Ghostbusters was a bad movie that's what hurt it most of all. Plus is there really some massive Ghostbusters fan base? Felt like a hail mary reboot.
 

lunarworks

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,242
Toronto
I'll say it, they kind of sealed in the lead up to TFA by appealing to these asshole. Their entire marketing reeked of "YOU the TRUE fans get the STAR WARS you want just like YOU remembered!" and stoke the flames thinking they could control it.

In hindsight, it's clear they really were afraid of getting the "Plinkett" treatment, and in the end their insistence on pleasing these assholes made the reaction to their trilogy not only worse, but they basically let those "fans" write the final entry in the saga lmao

They should've taken a page from George Lucas's book of not giving a single fuck.
The PT was a badly written/directed mess, but I will give Geroge Lucas credit for trying new things and expanding the scope of the series.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,292
Why in God's name would seeing deepfake RoTJ Luke, literally just swinging a lightsaber for 2 minutes as Deus ex machina make you cry? That Star Theory guy is a joke and belongs in the glut of crap like Midnight's Edge, or Robothead who literally just make content every week bitching about Kathleen Kennedy, not shutting the fuck up about Rian Johnson, their childhood being tainted, and producing endless fake content like "Disney's gonna decanonize the sequel trilogy!". They're toxic and give a bad name to star wars fans cause they act their conduits to the greater fandom when they just represent the worst of internet pessimism within it. Fuck 'em.
 

Veelk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,720
I'll say it, they kind of sealed in the lead up to TFA by appealing to these asshole. Their entire marketing reeked of "YOU the TRUE fans get the STAR WARS you want just like YOU remembered!" and stoke the flames thinking they could control it.

I mean look at this shit:


In hindsight, it's clear they really were afraid of getting the "Plinkett" treatment, and in the end their insistence on pleasing these assholes made the reaction to their trilogy not only worse, but they basically let those "fans" write the final entry in the saga lmao

They should've taken a page from George Lucas's book of not giving a single fuck.

I do remember that when TFA came out, it basically read like JJ sat down and watched Plinkett's videos and basically took notes on everything to avoid and what not to do and made a SW movie from there.

And honestly, I still feel like TFA is worth defending. I now realize that JJ Abrams was never making an incisive meta-Star Wars fandom movie, it just kind of ended up being that as he remixed the OT, but the fact is that the ST as a meta-story was locked in on the first movie and TLJ kind of had to continue the trend.

And I legit wonder what the ST would have been about if a creator that legit wanted to see SW do something new and had the ability to pull it off would do.
 

lunarworks

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,242
Toronto
If Star Wars is relying on box office numbers from an aging fan base going forward they are in for a world of hurt.

Ghostbusters was a bad movie that's what hurt it most of all. Plus is there really some massive Ghostbusters fan base? Felt like a hail mary reboot.
The Ghostbusters fanbase is much, much smaller, but it overlapped with and pulled in the whole "destroyed my '80s childhood!" crowd, and vocal MRAs and incels looking for a cause, causing quite a ruckus.

Whether it is good or not is subjective, a strong majority of reviews said it was good, an opinion I share, but for people looking for a movie to see on the weekend, if all they see are a flood of negative impressions of it, that will affect their decision.
 

AnimaRize

Banned
Nov 7, 2020
3,483
If Star Wars is relying on box office numbers from an aging fan base going forward they are in for a world of hurt.

Ghostbusters was a bad movie that's what hurt it most of all. Plus is there really some massive Ghostbusters fan base? Felt like a hail mary reboot.
They aren't, they literally don't care about box office numbers, they only care about merchandise sales, star wars could have one of the highest grossing movies of all time in ticket sales but that doesn't matter if the toys don't sell. Why do you think TLJ was course corrected despite still having amazing ticket sales the toys didn't sell. That is the truth enough new and old fans didn't like the way it went and they didn't buy the toys, the shirts, the memorabilia. And that what disney cares about. You could be one of the biggest autur movie of the last decade but if you are from a toy franchise and don't sell those toys well you won't get another movie unless it's in your contract.

Why is this so hard to understand?
 

Pilgrimzero

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,129
Why in God's name would seeing deepfake RoTJ Luke, literally just swinging a lightsaber for 2 minutes as Deus ex machina make you cry? That Star Theory guy is a joke and belongs in the glut of crap like Midnight's Edge, or Robothead who literally just make content every week bitching about Kathleen Kennedy, not shutting the fuck up about Rian Johnson, their childhood being tainted, and producing endless fake content like "Disney's gonna decanonize the sequel trilogy!". They're toxic and give a bad name to star wars fans cause they act their conduits to the greater fandom when they just represent the worst of internet pessimism within it. Fuck 'em.

My childhood hero is onscreen again after 40 years and being awesome (instead of being shit on like in the sequels)? Is that really hard to understand?
 

Tomasoares

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,599
God damnit, fuck SW fandom.
It was a private tweet and it didn't even meant what the fanboy thought it meant.

Anyway, I hope someday Disney retcons The Rise of Skywalker or declares the Holiday Special as the official Ep 9 lol
 

Fj0823

Legendary Duelist
Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,688
Costa Rica
I do remember that when TFA came out, it basically read like JJ sat down and watched Plinkett's videos and basically took notes on everything to avoid and what not to do and made a SW movie from there.

And honestly, I still feel like TFA is worth defending. I now realize that JJ Abrams was never making an incisive meta-Star Wars fandom movie, it just kind of ended up being that as he remixed the OT, but the fact is that the ST as a meta-story was locked in on the first movie and TLJ kind of had to continue the trend.

And I legit wonder what the ST would have been about if a creator that legit wanted to see SW do something new and had the ability to pull it off would do.

My main problem is not in the movie per se (I consider it aggressively mediocre and hate its reset)

But that it validated these idiots, now they truly believe they have the power over the franchise they DESERVE and George DENIED them (Cue shit like "The People vs George Lucas").

They have literally shaped the franchise twice already with TFA and TROS. What's that if not validating them and encouraging them?
 

rashbeep

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,489
I find it kind of hilarious that people are acting like the Mandalorian is some kind of "bringing Star Wars to a new generation" thing, when all it is is just more Dave Filoni continuity porn with one of the blandest protagonists of all time.

The fact of the matter is that Filoni is just BETTER at doing what JJ Abrams is bad at - tickling people's nostalgia nerves in the right way rather than a stupid way. Of course people respond to it better than garbage like Rise of Skywalker.

100%
 

Fj0823

Legendary Duelist
Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,688
Costa Rica