LTTP: Black Panther | Not THAT amazing

[Deleted member 4247]

I've been working my way through all the MCU movies (had only seen the Iron Man trilogy and a few others before), and tonight I reached Black Panther. And I've gotta say I'm a bit disappointed after all the praise I'd heard.

Don't get me wrong, it's a good movie, I liked it, but at release many were calling it one of the best movies ever made (I think some were even calling it THE best movie ever), and that to me is honestly ridiculous. I would place it somewhere in the middle of the MCU, or maybe a tad higher. It's better than many of the movies, but there are also quite a few I think are better than it. It has pretty cool action (but bad CG), good acting, etc, but the story is nothing special at all. Guy becomes king and a superhero, is challenged and loses, then wins, decides his country should help the world, the end. It certainly isn't anywhere near being an all-time great (nothing in the MCU is IMO).

I understand this was an important movie for the black community (which I'm not part of, so I can't fully understand that aspect), so did that cloud some people's judgement and make them overrate it? Being an important movie doesn't automatically mean it's a great one.

Of course, you're welcome to tell me I'm wrong, and please explain why if so!

 

[Nepenthe]

I understand this was an important movie for the black community (which I'm not part of, so I can't fully understand that aspect), so did that cloud some people's judgement and make them overrate it?

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You completely missed all the sociopolitical subtext about African-American loneliness and the legacy of white colonialism in your summary, but then again you say you're not black. xP

 

[Deleted member 8860]

You completely missed all the sociopolitical subtext about African-American loneliness and the legacy of white colonialism in your summary, but then again you say you're not black. xP

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.

 

[Blader]

I'm not sure anyone seriously believes Black Panther is the greatest movie of all time. But that aside, when people try to divorce its artistic importance from its merits as a film, I always think... no. You can't. They're inseparable!

BP is a good, fun blockbuster on its own, putting aside everything else. But it's also the rare blockbuster that is not only helmed by a predominantly black cast and crew, but actually makes that perspective an integral part of the story. If you want to take an extremely surface-level view of the plot alone, then yeah it's protagonist is challenged, overcomes obstacles, returns to fight antagonist and wins. But themes of colonialism, racial oppression, isolationism, et al. run deep underneath that plot. How many mainstream blockbusters do you know even broach the idea of what an African nation could look like if their potential hadn't exploited by centuries of white colonizers? Hell, how many mainstream blockbusters even talk about white colonizers (let alone make jokes about them), period? You can't talk about why the movie's important as if it's a separate part of what the movie is, because they're one and the same.

Black Panther was a collective piece of work of black filmmakers to put black culture, and discussions of themes and subjects relevant to black history (past, present, future), into mainstream movie theaters, in front of a mainstream audience that sure as hell had a lot of non-black viewers. And it made over a billion dollars.

 

[Deleted member 4247]

You completely missed all the sociopolitical subtext about African-American loneliness and the legacy of white colonialism in your summary, but then again you say you're not black. xP

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I did understand that part of the movie and what it references, but I don't think that makes it an amazing movie. It's still not a very interesting story that's being told IMO, in and of itself. But it's entirely possible that I didn't think enough about it! Like I said, I'm not black, so I don't think I can fully "appreciate" that aspect the same way others probably can. I can try, but it's not part of my history, so it's harder to directly relate to (I'm also not American, so I don't have any direct relationship with black slavery).

I guess to me it was just an action movie with some interesting themes. A good one, but not an amazing one.

 

[TrailerParkRanger]

For me, it was Killmonger.

Dude loses his father, and his only connection to a people/culture/history he doesn't know and doesn't really understand having been raised outside of it. Finds out that the person who killed his father, is in fact his uncle, AND his uncle is the king? Becomes an elite soldier, and returns to the country that abandoned him to stake his rightful claim to the throne and use his power to help oppressed people.

That's a hero narrative. And why Killmonger is such a good villain.

Yes, the movie had issues. Like the CGI fights were really weird to me. Like PS3 Mortal Kombat looking fights. The Tolkein White Guys, Skar I think makes a better villain and I was kinda bummed to see him die. Also, Bilbo is an intelligence operative for a foreign government, and you're just gonna let him run around?

High point: Lupita N'yongo's Korean was on point. The pronunciation wasn't as great, but her cadence and everything was wonderful.

 

[Doggg]

I thought it was a good solid film, but yeah, not amazing.

 

[Mona]

im glad that the film resonated with people, but it just didn't touch me the same way

Into The Spider Verse however, now thats a fucking movie, incredible stuff

 

[BossAttack]

I did understand that part of the movie and what it references, but I don't think that makes it an amazing movie. It's still not a very interesting story that's being told IMO.

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[X] Doubt.

You can critique a lot about Black Panther, like how the third act abandons all its interesting questions and themes in favor of a poor CG battle. But, to say the story and its themes "aren't interesting" is some nonsense.

 

[Nepenthe]

I did understand that part of the movie and what it references, but I don't think that makes it an amazing movie. It's still not a very interesting story that's being told IMO.

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You don't think an African superpower being confronted by the consequences of its own neglect of the slave trade is an interesting story?

 

[WiZaRdOuS]

You completely missed all the sociopolitical subtext about African-American loneliness and the legacy of white colonialism in your summary, but then again you say you're not black. xP

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This and THIS. Everybody keeps assuming the praise the movie gets is because of the product, its bigger than that.

 

[Deleted member 4247]

[X] Doubt.

You can critique a lot about Black Panther, like how the third act abandons all its interesting questions and themes in favor of a poor CG battle. But, to say the story and its themes "aren't interesting" is some nonsense.

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You don't think an African superpower being confronted by the consequences of its own neglect of the slave trade is an interesting story?

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I edited my post to expand upon my thoughts on that. There are interesting themes, yes, but the movie really only tangentially touches upon them. The main story is about T'challa, and it's not a very interesting one.

So I guess maybe the IDEA of the movie is better than the movie itself? I really just watched it as a movie, and as that it didn't blow me away like it seems to have others.

 

[ReiGun]

I'm not sure anyone seriously believes Black Panther is the greatest movie of all time. But that aside, when people try to divorce its artistic importance from its merits as a film, I always think... no. You can't. They're inseparable!

BP is a good, fun blockbuster on its own, putting aside everything else. But it's also the rare blockbuster that is not only helmed by a predominantly black cast and crew, but actually makes that perspective an integral part of the story. If you want to take an extremely surface-level view of the plot alone, then yeah it's protagonist is challenged, overcomes obstacles, returns to fight antagonist and wins. But themes of colonialism, racial oppression, isolationism, et al. run deep underneath that plot. How many mainstream blockbusters do you know even broach the idea of what an African nation could look like if their potential hadn't exploited by centuries of white colonizers? Hell, how many mainstream blockbusters even talk about white colonizers (let alone make jokes about them), period? You can't talk about why the movie's important as if it's a separate part of what the movie is, because they're one and the same.

Black Panther was a collective piece of work of black filmmakers to put black culture, and discussions of themes and subjects relevant to black history (past, present, future), into mainstream movie theaters, in front of a mainstream audience that sure as hell had a lot of non-black viewers. And it made over a billion dollars.

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I don't like to just write "This" when I agree with a post. But...........This.

I've been working my way through all the MCU movies (had only seen the Iron Man trilogy and a few others before), and tonight I reached Black Panther. And I've gotta say I'm a bit disappointed after all the praise I'd heard.

Don't get me wrong, it's a good movie, I liked it, but at release many were calling it one of the best movies ever made (I think some were even calling it THE best movie ever), and that to me is honestly ridiculous. I would place it somewhere in the middle of the MCU, or maybe a tad higher. It's better than many of the movies, but there are also quite a few I think are better than it. It has pretty cool action (but bad CG), good acting, etc, but the story is nothing special at all. Guy becomes king and a superhero, is challenged and loses, then wins, decides his country should help the world, the end. It certainly isn't anywhere near being an all-time great (nothing in the MCU is IMO).

I understand this was an important movie for the black community (which I'm not part of, so I can't fully understand that aspect), so did that cloud some people's judgement and make them overrate it? Being an important movie doesn't automatically mean it's a great one.

Of course, you're welcome to tell me I'm wrong, and please explain why if so!

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I'm curious: what should they have rated it?

As much as we try to make it one, film is not an objective discussion for the most part. If the movie didn't resonate with you, that's fine. However, it clearly resonated with others in a very strong and real way that makes it a great film to them.

 

[WiZaRdOuS]

I did understand that part of the movie and what it references, but...

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Naaaah Colonizer, you did not...lol
We will agree it went over your head, I guess?

 

[Manmademan]

What is this, terrible hot take day?

 

[Nepenthe]

I edited my post to expand upon my thoughts on that. There are interesting themes, yes, but the movie really only tangentially touches upon them. The main story is about T'challa, and it's not a very interesting one.

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... The main villain is the personification of the rage most black folks feel at some point in their lives, and he gets T'Challa to change. It's not tangential. You literally didn't get it.

 

[subpar spatula]

It's a solid movie but nothing amazing. I think it would be better if it wasn't attached to a super hero.

 

[Deleted member 4247]

Naaaah Colonizer, you did not...lol
We will agree it went over your head, I guess?

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Now I'm a colonizer because I didn't find this movie to be a revolutionary masterpiece, lol...

 

[More_Badass]

I've been working my way through all the MCU movies (had only seen the Iron Man trilogy and a few others before), and tonight I reached Black Panther. And I've gotta say I'm a bit disappointed after all the praise I'd heard.

Don't get me wrong, it's a good movie, I liked it, but at release many were calling it one of the best movies ever made (I think some were even calling it THE best movie ever), and that to me is honestly ridiculous. I would place it somewhere in the middle of the MCU, or maybe a tad higher. It's better than many of the movies, but there are also quite a few I think are better than it. It has pretty cool action (but bad CG), good acting, etc, but the story is nothing special at all. Guy becomes king and a superhero, is challenged and loses, then wins, decides his country should help the world, the end. It certainly isn't anywhere near being an all-time great (nothing in the MCU is IMO).

I understand this was an important movie for the black community (which I'm not part of, so I can't fully understand that aspect), so did that cloud some people's judgement and make them overrate it? Being an important movie doesn't automatically mean it's a great one.

Of course, you're welcome to tell me I'm wrong, and please explain why if so!

Click to shrink...

You liking something less than other people doesn't mean the other people "overrated" it

 

[Manmademan]

Now I'm a colonizer because I didn't find this movie to be a revolutionary masterpiece, lol...

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Hard to believe you actually watched the movie with these responses.

 

[Nepenthe]

Not thinking it's a masterpiece is one thing. Thinking it's not revolutionary is, like, literally wrong.

 

[Deleted member 4247]

... The main villain is the personification of the rage most black folks feel at some point in their lives, and he gets T'Challa to change. It's not tangential. You literally didn't get it.

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Yes, I already said several times that I don't think I CAN fully get that aspect, being a white Swede. I also said that even if that makes the movie important, it doesn't automatically make it one of the best movies ever made.

 

[Deleted member 4247]

Hard to believe you actually watched the movie with these responses.

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What? He called me a colonizer. I've never colonized anything. It's irrelevant to the discussion.

 

[WiZaRdOuS]

Now I'm a colonizer because I didn't find this movie to be a revolutionary masterpiece, lol...

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Naaaah by no means not for that..lol

Look above and all the posts being quoted with THIS.

 

[HStallion]

The movie is a lot more than the final product. It touched a nerve in the best possible way and for many it was an event. You can certainly criticize its issues like the rather lack luster CG and the third acting going into the usual Marvel conclusion but its a lot more than the sum of its parts for many people. They don't care about those things I mentioned because they got to see a movie by black film makers with a black cast dealing directly with black issues. That alone means far more than good CG to many many people.

 

[xxracerxx]

Now I'm a colonizer because I didn't find this movie to be a revolutionary masterpiece, lol...

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Did you even watch the movie?

 

[Takyon]

I was disappointed because I enjoyed Creed so much.
it will be cool if Coogler and Marvel could build upon the first BP's strengths and fix the failings for the sequel.
Overall, it's good.

 

[Nepenthe]

Yes, I already said several times that I don't think I CAN fully get that aspect, being a white Swede.

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Then it will be near impossible to actually make the argument of their film's merits. None of the stuff that matters is relevant to you.

 

[WiZaRdOuS]

Did you even watch the movie?

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Naaaaah man. By that alone...lol...I deadass text my boy to confirm I was quoting the right flick hahahaha

 

[Deleted member 4247]

Did you even watch the movie?

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Yes.

 

[BluePigGanon]

It's a great and incredibly significant movie with some really solid (and important) elements, but I do think the execution is pretty clumsy and it's "only" one of the better - not the best - Marvel movies. Talk of it being a Best Picture nominee or whatever seems silly to me.

I'm looking forward to the sequel though! I'm hoping for an Empire Strikes Back style follow up in the sense it takes all the good elements, trims the weak ones and raises the bar.

 

[mordecaii83]

Now I'm a colonizer because I didn't find this movie to be a revolutionary masterpiece, lol...

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That's a reference from the movie...

Anyway, as many other people have said the importance of the movie is a big part of what changes it from a very good movie to being a huge deal.

 

[Nepenthe]

Yes.

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Do you not remember the colonizer joke?

 

[S-Wind]

Yes, I already said several times that I don't think I CAN fully get that aspect, being a white Swede. I also said that even if that makes the movie important, it doesn't automatically make it one of the best movies ever made.

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Yeah, it's clear enough that you're unlikely to ever get it based on what you're writing.

So why bother argue a subject matter that's beyond your depth of understanding?

 

[Lundren]

The funniest thing about Black Panther is how it compels white dudes to come out of the woodwork with "I don't think it's THAT good or important" hot takes.

 

[Seductivpancakes]

You completely missed all the sociopolitical subtext about African-American loneliness and the legacy of white colonialism in your summary, but then again you say you're not black. xP

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This.

And I am also not part of the black community so I don't understand how you miss this point.

 

[Deleted member 4247]

Then it will be near impossible to actually make the argument of their film's merits. None of the stuff that matters is relevant to you.

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I wouldn't say it's not relevant, just that I can't hope to ever personally relate to it the same way people with other backgrounds can. So to me it's more of "just a movie" in that way, I guess. I get what you're saying, but I don't think I can ever truly GET IT. Not because I don't want to, it just is what it is.

 

[RochHoch]

I really wasn't impressed with it that much either. Killmonger was cool, but the rest wasn't spectacular or anything. T'challa came of as pretty meh in his own movie.

 

[WiZaRdOuS]

OP should've googled before creating the thread.

The funniest thing about Black Panther is how it compels white dudes to come out of the woodwork with "I don't think it's THAT good or important" hot takes.

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FAXXX. Not just dudes tho

 

[Deleted member 4247]

The funniest thing about Black Panther is how it compels white dudes to come out of the woodwork with "I don't think it's THAT good or important" hot takes.

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So white dudes aren't allowed to have opinions about this movie? And I didn't say it wasn't important, you made that up. In fact I said the opposite, only that important != amazing as a movie.

 

[Spidey]

It's a great movie, top 5 in the MCU or thereabouts, it's just unfortunate that this is a year where it's the third best Marvel movie, the second best movie involving the character of Black Panther and the second best superhero movie with a black lead. Disney are trying to hold it up with Oscar consideration as something truly special and it is in many ways but framed around the other movies, it's going to be hard for its legacy not to be seen as overrated in some way.

 

[Seductivpancakes]

The funniest thing about Black Panther is how it compels white dudes to come out of the woodwork with "I don't think it's THAT good or important" hot takes.

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Or being offended for that one colonizer line and proceed to claim its racism towards white people.

 

[Lundren]

So white dudes aren't allowed to have opinions about this movie? And I didn't say it wasn't important, you made that up.

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You're allowed to have opinions. You're allowed to do a lot of things.

You just seem to be compelled to make sure everyone knows how you felt, about this specific movie.

The word or was in that sentence, btw.

 

[Elegant Weapon]

What? He called me a colonizer. I've never colonized anything. It's irrelevant to the discussion.

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I like how the most truly oblivious people are so intent on telling us how/why we rate something that they don't even bother to try to understand

The funniest thing about Black Panther is how it compels white dudes to come out of the woodwork with "I don't think it's THAT good or important" hot takes.

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exactly

 

[HStallion]

So white dudes aren't allowed to have opinions about this movie? And I didn't say it wasn't important, you made that up. In fact I said the opposite, only that important != amazing as a movie.

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You realize you're just kind of repeating yourself right? How many times are you gonna say you won't get it and just... leave it at that? The movie is more than the sum of its parts for a lot of people for very obvious reasons and that's why it stands out.

 

[Deleted member 4247]

Or being offended for that one colonizer line and proceed to claim its racism towards white people.

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I claimed racism? Where? But yes, I did miss that reference, I didn't remember every line in the movie.

 

[Manmademan]

It's a great movie, top 5 in the MCU or thereabouts, it's just unfortunate that this is a year where it's the third best Marvel movie, the second best movie involving the character of Black Panther and the second best superhero movie with a black lead. Disney are trying to hold it up with Oscar consideration as something truly special and it is in many ways but framed around the other movies, it's going to be hard for its legacy not to be seen as overrated in some way.

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I was about to holler until i realize you included Spider-Verse as a Marvel Movie.

Im on the fence as to whether BP or Infinity War was the better movie, could go either way. Spider Verse is a better film than both though.

 

[The Watcher]

It's a solid movie but nothing amazing. I think it would be better if it wasn't attached to a super hero.

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I agree that most of the themes should be dug into more thoroughly in more, I hesitate to say, "mature" films. But I think that it defeats the purpose. The mere fact that these themes were not only explored in a superhero film, but a Marvel film headed by a black director and mainly black cast and crew speaks volumes. The fact that this movie was seen by millions of people world wide and has resonated with some is phenomenal. Black Panther was more better thematically than it had to be and it gives me hope that the sequel will be more so.

 

[Slim]

It's a decent movie. Definitely not the best movie ever, as it's not even the best MCU movie.

 

[Htown]

I understand this was an important movie for the black community (which I'm not part of, so I can't fully understand that aspect), so did that cloud some people's judgement and make them overrate it? Being an important movie doesn't automatically mean it's a great one.

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Alternatively, maybe you lack empathy and your inability to relate to black people made you underrate it.