Sorry, dude. Never had a reason to in any game.
OMG let's talk about this postgame because I continue to struggle with the data question. But postgame so it doesn't impact reads or take up space.Noted. It's just that when I think without data it feels like I'm fabricating arguments out of nothing.
Okay, took a step away to remind myself to not be an asshole. I'll be here for a couple hours looking into all the boats that are just giant nulls to me currently. Ping away if you have something you want to discuss while I do my reviewing.
This is a cool role, Bear.Let me put it to you this way.
Yes, we got a green check on Ty and AB. Didn't want them to be a target for the NK.
I was "stolen" by a gossip pair last night. Just me. I was removed from Malus and I's chat last night. I could see it, but I couldn't post. I told said pair that we were checking AB and Ty so that if something happened to us, there would be someone who at least knew. We got the check off, it's green. I also full claimed to them, so they knew before I posted that we were only one shot.
I've seen your many posts on this, but I'll just quote this one. What's the angle here for scum!Bae? How does delaying the green check reveal benefit her as potential scum player?I'm not calling the gossip fabricated, it's the fact that Bae was being so elusive over what could have been explained pretty clearly from the jump. She was oddly dodgy about everything until malus came clean. As I said in the post you quoted Fanto, it's easier to cover your ass after the fact rather than claiming in the moment. Bae did the latter which made me raise an eyebrow. Maybe I'm just harping on nothing because of my feelings for Tybro, but I don't think it's unfair to question such a weird check claim.
here, finally, I can agree with you that it wasn't maybe the best use, but we don't know if they're infinite, x-shot, etc., etc.
Actually the only things that would make it more likely to be scum here for me is if they KNEW it would separate the team - then targeting Bae and malus, who had agreed to work in concert would be anti-town if they believed the claim. If they didn't, it actually makes sense.
I'm drawing a blank when trying to understand these suggestions that a pair wouldn't know how their own power worked.So you believe the most likely scenario is that a scum PR picked up on the investigator breadcrumbs and decided to snatch her into a chat even though they have no way of knowing what limitations exist on the role, got her to claim 1-shot, believed the claim enough to let her live, and then just worked her to get on her good side yet held back on actually revealing their identities? And you think that makes more sense than town towning? Okay then.
can i just ask a quick question?
when has scum ever just allowed a check to just happen?
Was casting doubt on Bae the strategy scum decided on overnight, rac?
How do you mean? There's a clear line in that post following the thread that Monkey tried to dismiss the fact that Stu and her clearly were very afraid of being lynched on D1 after the train deflated.You mention the train on them deflating but don't really go into much detail. What do you make of that in relation to your scumread of Dr. Stu?
Yes.Dude you keep going silent and hate getting called out, and known for being a nonstop talker.
rac/VA, stan/FEP, and kyan/donna. If time allows reki/xbro but I'm less concerned there compared to my boat buddy.while you do your reviewing, what are your null boats that you're reviewing?
Too lazy to trim this but to the first point that quoted me - I was saying the theoretical scum thieves wouldn't know what limitations exist on Bae's role, not their own.I'd marked at least 10 other posts to comment on during catch-up, but I'll just trim the fat. Still splitting it into more than one post.
This is a cool role, Bear.
Bae, can you give us something regarding why you so strongly believe that the thieves are town? Was it something they said in the overnight chat? Were you already townreading them before the fact? What?
Also - did they ask you who you were probably going to check overnight?
I've seen your many posts on this, but I'll just quote this one. What's the angle here for scum!Bae? How does delaying the green check reveal benefit her as potential scum player?
I understand being wary about how the claim went down while it was an ongoing thing, but at this point going on and on about this honestly seems like being suspicious of something just for the sake of it.
I'm drawing a blank when trying to understand these suggestions that a pair wouldn't know how their own power worked.
Was casting doubt on Bae the strategy scum decided on overnight, rac?
How do you mean? There's a clear line in that post following the thread that Monkey tried to dismiss the fact that Stu and her clearly were very afraid of being lynched on D1 after the train deflated.
Yes.
This is a better way to also get across what I was trying to express earlier, if it means anything to Terra. "Pointless" was definitely the wrong word, I didn't mean to imply anything personal about that.I've seen your many posts on this, but I'll just quote this one. What's the angle here for scum!Bae? How does delaying the green check reveal benefit her as potential scum player?
I understand being wary about how the claim went down while it was an ongoing thing, but at this point going on and on about this honestly seems like being suspicious of something just for the sake of it.
I probably wouldn't kill Fandorin on N1 as scum even if he was a cop who outright said he was going to check me.ah so now we know why you killed fanto
he knows your real schedule
Huh. And does that tell you something right now? Why did you bring it up? Haha.It's worth noting that, if I recall correctly, Sorian and Monkey are the only two who have deliberately brought up the amount of posts they have in their chat. This post just reminded me of that. Have it in a multi-quote, so I can't remember how relevant it is.
It's weird that you came up with this line when I directly addressed it in that post. You "stayed" on the B-Dubs/Sorian vote for only a few minutes, but you continued to echo the same argument behind it throughout the entire phase.I stayed on that vote for literally minutes. It was a joke. Come on, dude.
Getting overwhelmed by accusations and ending up having to defend yourself constantly can happen to everyone regardless of alignment, yeah.No, it was because most of the discussion was about me. That puts me between a rock and a hard place. If I only go on about that stuff, it becomes all I'm talking about. Witness the thread around that time, in a narrative that continues - people are still saying I haven't done much else and people still said all I did was "play defense" d1. You were one of them.
So is that how you would call yours' and Stu's D1? A hour-one clown show? That's pretty dramatic, as not even I would put it that way.Yeah, I mean, you can be mad about it if you want to or whatever, but if people really want to try to seriously say I'm going to reveal myself as scum within hours then I'm gonna be seriously insulted. Even when we've managed to nail scum d1 it's not usually because they put on an hour-one clownshow. It's ridiculous. I can't believe we're still talking about it.
The rest of it is not whatever, though. That D1 is still a smudge that exists in your play. When you were under pressure, you and Stu reacted very badly. It's a fact that you've improved since then, but you did so after that pressure went away and you had a phase to recollect.The rest of this is whatever. I've had dozens of posts since then and the conversation (except for Sorian lol) has moved on. Come back when you've read up. If you still hold the same opinions, let's talk about it then.
You don't get to decide that, sorry.Also for people scumreading us: Try using arguments from today instead of arguments that somehow persisted from the first few hours of D1.
You know, when I saw this post, I actually laughed a little. Here, I'll let you in a secret:First of all Stu/Dr. Monkey getting defended by SkyChuggs seems awfully suspicious to me. seems to be if they were town they'd be at each other's throats. Either they're scum or each other defenses seem key to their town roles which seems highly unlikely
totallyWas casting doubt on Bae the strategy scum decided on overnight, rac?
In addition to reading my post above, I want to remind you of this post I made directed towards you.Brazil Brother where art thou? This is less of a nudge for specific reasons, you've just been more silent than I ever recall you being, so it's hard to get a good read on where you're coming from.
Your last post of real note (#2370) has you analyzing monkey. Some of the criticisms are fair (especially the defensive nature of the pair), but I believe monkey has contributed enough to throw suspicion off of her. A fault to your analysis is that you focused mostly on the early game (to your credit you claimed to be busy so I can't fault you there too much), but I feel she's done more as the game has progressed. Agree/Disagree? Thoughts on her now that we're in the bottom half of day two?
Reviewing your other posts, S-Dubs seems like the only other pair you really vocalized disdain for. I'm guessing those thoughts haven't changed, but anyone else you noticed as far as you've read? Oh, and thoughts on Baelus and their claim from this mornin?
I would point out that Monkey's actions haven't actually changed all that much from D1. On D1 she pushed me, that didn't work, so now she's pushing Sorian (who is my partner). And now when I gave her something to work with she moves back to me.I'm feeling way better about you today than I did when I typed that post, that's for sure. The neverending back and forth between you and Sorian today, however, is so damn noisy it's really hard to grasp much from, even though I read through all of it in one go (or maybe because of it).
I did find it a little funny that you suggested just recently that others are pushing today to be a fake thunderdome between you and Sorian when both of you seem physically unable to disengage from an argument with the other, ever.
It's bringing attention to a chat of two people making a ton of posts between the two of them.Huh. And does that tell you something right now? Why did you bring it up? Haha.
You don't get to decide that, sorry.
Also, it's curious that you didn't even touch on my big post on Monkey, even though most of your activity in this game consists of posts in which you're snide at accusations thrown your way, and even though you actively asked me about what I had in mind about Monkey when I mentioned suspicions.
I guess this late post does fit the same "This argument is below me so I'll just handwave it away" shtick of yours that somehow persisted from the first few hours of D1.
You know, when I saw this post, I actually laughed a little. Here, I'll let you in a secret:
Dr. Monkey is on my list of scum reads.
All game, Dr. Monkey has been casually listing me as a town read without much explanation or justification. It has been making me wary that Dr. Monkey has been trying to win my trust.
In my game someone who was scum did it (but not as an opener). Sure scum can do it. But I've played scum with Sky and he's self conscious about it. I can't imagine Chuggs would be chill, either. Regardless, I find Chuggs down to earth and open in his posts today. I don't get anything scummy off either of them at all.
TheSkyChugger - I like Sky. He's thoughtful and he's always been lowkey one of my favorite players. Chuggs is chill, ready with his own opinions, not concerned about engaging. No reason at all to consider them today.
I don't see Chuggs fake-drunk-posting and my guess is scumChuggs would be a little more cautious. And Sky is making good observations. I'm not saying this is my end read on them, but right now, I wouldn't vote them.
You know, when I saw this post, I actually laughed a little. Here, I'll let you in a secret:
Dr. Monkey is on my list of scum reads.
All game, Dr. Monkey has been casually listing me as a town read without much explanation or justification. It has been making me wary that Dr. Monkey has been trying to win my trust.
There is also something about the interactions between Sorian and Dr. Monkey that feels forced or artificial. Take the discussion about the gossipers, for example. It seems like both sides are commited to disagreement and argument even when they apparently agree on major things.
It feels like a really dedicated bussing strategy.
It's impossible not to feel better about Monkey today. Her style clashes violently with mine in some of her posts still, but that's nothing new. So you have situations like Sorian's "Reki is the thief" vote thing, which she made some weird comments about along the way, but that I believe she handled more gracefully than Sorian himself.Brazil Brother where art thou? This is less of a nudge for specific reasons, you've just been more silent than I ever recall you being, so it's hard to get a good read on where you're coming from.
Your last post of real note (#2370) has you analyzing monkey. Some of the criticisms are fair (especially the defensive nature of the pair), but I believe monkey has contributed enough to throw suspicion off of her. A fault to your analysis is that you focused mostly on the early game (to your credit you claimed to be busy so I can't fault you there too much), but I feel she's done more as the game has progressed. Agree/Disagree? Thoughts on her now that we're in the bottom half of day two?
I wish Geno was here, as I'd made a mental note that he looked good to me on D1, but forgot which post of his actually triggered that. It felt like a good read at the moment, too, but by now it's slipping through my fingers.Reviewing your other posts, S-Dubs seems like the only other pair you really vocalized disdain for. I'm guessing those thoughts haven't changed, but anyone else you noticed as far as you've read? Oh, and thoughts on Baelus and their claim from this mornin?
You haven't voted all game. You didn't even vote here.I would point out that Monkey's actions haven't actually changed all that much from D1. On D1 she pushed me, that didn't work, so now she's pushing Sorian (who is my partner). And now when I gave her something to work with she moves back to me.
Geno looks very town. Unfortunately though he's not doing anything with that at all.I wish Geno was here, as I'd made a mental note that he looked good to me on D1, but forgot which post of his actually triggered that. It felt like a good read at the moment, too, but by now it's slipping through my fingers.
Geno looks very town. Unfortunately though he's not doing anything with that at all.
if you really doubt me that much help me lunch bae malus
if you really doubt me that much help me lunch bae malus
if they aren't scum lunch me tomorrow
It's meandering and sort of hems and haws about whether he didn't want to pick because it might cause a tie or his vote not mattering in the end (despite the vote actually being fairly close at the end).Based on our chat, I'm thinking Rac wasn't around EoD, or much of yesterday. I told him I wasn't comfortable leaving my vote on Bae with the role claim, but never heard a response one way or the other. As for me and my no vote...I couldn't make up my mind who to vote. It's easy for me to say this now, and there is no proof one way or other for all of you, but by EoD I felt that Kits and Kalor weren't scum. I'd rather put no vote down then vote on town. I was focused on Absolut/Ty though and hoping they would get more votes, but didn't want to place a vote there when things were tight in fear of causing a tie. Then it became clear my vote wouldn't matter one way or other by the end, so...I just left it a note vote :/
I'll ask rac to post his thoughts he shared with me. I don't want to copy/paste his exact post and steal his observations since I've been lying around contributing just about nothing so far.
This feels like a natural exchange referencing work rac had shared in their private chat. I find it more likely that town rac with a sick boat mate who is struggling to keep up with the thread would provide some (gasp) actual reasoning and investigation to them than I do a scum rac with x amount of teammates doing so when there would be multiple other players to help VA along. It's not a huge moment, but it was the biggest thing that stuck out to me.sigh
it's been difficult to keep myself engaged but the one thing that's stick out to me was:
when bae called out fantos vote on monkey
https://www.resetera.com/threads/lo...me-its-bearsonal.116855/page-11#post-20819276
is feeling good about monkey/stu
https://www.resetera.com/threads/lo...me-its-bearsonal.116855/page-21#post-20846972
https://www.resetera.com/threads/lo...me-its-bearsonal.116855/page-23#post-20852084
then calls out stu for almost the same reason fanto voted monkey
https://www.resetera.com/threads/lo...me-its-bearsonal.116855/page-25#post-20858193
i apologize if the links don't work
NOTE:
I'll be absent for most of today (Tuesday) due to exams. Most of that time will be when America is asleep, but in urgent cases please contact other gamerunners (Pedro, RetroMG, Fireblend or Captain Nuevo). I'll be back before day ends.
I actually haven't looked into that. I read back by ISOing Monkey's posts, so that wasn't my focus. But I should definitely do it.To the second point - I followed that bit, I more meant do you make anything of the votes on Dr. Stu suddenly dispersing? Not in relation to Dr. Stu but in relation to the players on said vote.
It seems to me that the more likely scenario is the one covered by the thieves' chat existence - she didn't want to reveal all of it without passing it by Malus first.Brazil Goes back to the transparency bit I harped on. Waiting to claim gives her more time to fold the narrative to her liking. I guess that would entail hearing more from the gossip pair themselves if they exist, but for all we know scum!Bae could have still been faking her claimed target and/or the resulting scan to fit whatever narrative she wanted to form. After all, if she was taken from her chat, she couldn't speak to her partner over night which could result in her scrambling to come up with something. Hell, as far as I can tell, without an actual gossip pair to confirm, she and her partner could be making this up for all we know. I don't see why else she couldn't just say what she did about "not wanting them nk'd" earlier.
Tl;dr the potential outcomes I see are:
1. town!Bae is telling the truth and just wasn't being transparent for whatever reasons she may have.
2. scum!Bae is telling the truth about being gossiped, but had to come up with a response earlier on the fly since she couldn't contact her partner over night. Currently standing without a gossip pair to verify, there's a lot of room for her to claim what she wants. And even if they were to verify, I'm assuming the gossip would have been broken off before she could tell them the scan reading which would make for further wiggle room.
3. scum!Bae is lying about being gossiped and god knows what happened with the scan if it even exists.
So at the end of the day, we're taking her and malus's word for their actions. Hence why I pressed Bae because I don't want to blindly rely on someone's claimed actions, particularly when I was already skeptical.
Her demeanor is and the way she's going about things is different. But you don't need to point out that her focus hasn't strayed too far from where it already was - that's pretty clear.I would point out that Monkey's actions haven't actually changed all that much from D1. On D1 she pushed me, that didn't work, so now she's pushing Sorian (who is my partner). And now when I gave her something to work with she moves back to me.
Here's the problem: you treat all suspicion as acts of aggression, even though you don't know the alignment of the people suspecting you. Instead of engaging with arguments, you just whine about them. Not only does that not help other townies figure you out, it also makes them less likely to back down from you.I do get to decide that it's quite frankly BS if you can only use a flimsy BS argument from the first few hours of D1 as reasons for scum reading. It means you have nothing solid and are just hoping something else comes along while banging the same old tired drumbeat.
And yes, it was and still is a BS argument.
My argument was framed as an analysis of D1 from the get-go. It's not a "tired old D1 argument" - it's an argument that arose overnight after D1 in hindsight. You don't get to put up an arbitrary barrier that says you don't need to engage with arguments because they're referencing the previous phase. Your alignment is still the same today as it was on D1.