I think people want Mindy is be the Issa Rae for South Asian female writers/creators, who evolved from her roots of Awkward Black Girl to Insecure to where she is now, and she might not be it
-
For our US members, be sure to check on your voter registration status and if you are not registered it will only take a second to do so!
Looks like brown folks, especially brown women, are getting tired Mindy Kaling's character writing.
- Thread starter entremet
- Start date
It's been a few years but wasn't that someone that his parents foisted upon him as a love interest?
The thing I notice about Mindy Kaling's writing of Indian characters is that they are consistently written thru the lens of how they are perceived by white people and white culture. Having watched many of their projects, it seems to be a reflection of her own upbringing. Her voice as a writer is very white-culture-centric, and that becomes especially evident when it comes to how women of color are portrayed. I noticed it a lot in her series about 3 high school age girls of color.
Yeah that would be a bad idea because Issa is more clued in the social issues aspects and there is more variety to her talents than just acting and writing, whereas Mindy's strengths are in producing and writing. There just needs to be more talent. There has not been an age of Indian sitcoms, dramas, films etc in the Western realm that can be built on the back of like there has been for black media for decades. We are not yet out of the tropey realm for Western South Asian media.
YMMV??
Not sure how many "losers" she's actually writing. Mindy Project had her as an OB/GYN making great money in an important field. Sex Lives of College Girls has 4 mains (it's obvious obvious which funny girl the self-insert is, but the character again isn't a loser). The Office had her as a ditz, but whatever, she was funny. But like half of all TV shows are written from loser/outcast angles because, big shock, a lot of people can relate to being a dork.
I can kinda relate to Mindy's angle because she (and I) were born in North America to foreign parents. She's writing to a big cohort of people who have this background, I think. The fact her shows show a lot of struggle between identities and generational pressure from parents feels like the point (and yes, it ruffles feathers; my parents are always pressuring me to be closer to the "homeland" and I think they get annoyed that I "adopted video games" instead lol). I really don't see her as hating her culture if she references it in most of the projects she's attached to; and the characters she writes, like herself, navigate identities (both social and cultural, local and inherited).
I can appreciate the complaint where she keeps having her characters ultimately hook up with white guys. That could be studio, that could be her. Pretty sure she's heard the criticism since they seem to be divvying up the pool; The Mindy Project was obnoxious for this, and Devi I guess, but now might fall into the rom-com trope of "first guy you have belligerent sexual tension with wins" (but she's paired up with three very different guys at this point).
I'll say she's not a perfect writer, but I"m just not really sure I agree with all the points being raised.
Well put!
Last edited:
I'm surprised there wasn't more upset that the actress isn't even desi.
Yea this is all stuff I've gradually noticed myself, she has a big enough body of work for people to compare and what not, where she clearly has a preference in the type of leads she writes
Interesting seeing the perspectives of other brown folk, particularly women
Interesting seeing the perspectives of other brown folk, particularly women
But the thread isn't specifically about Velma but rather Kaling's writing as a whole and given how most of the complaints about her brown female characters come from the Desi community I imagine there's merit in the complaint. And I'm not one to say they're just whining bc if it's something that's noticeable to them then who am I a non-Desi to tell them they're just wrong or haters?
As far as Velma, she's been signaled as Lesbian far before Kaling put pen to paper to write this show. Props to Kaling for sticking with that.
To be fair, Mindy Kaling isn't the first or last person to have non-white protagonists have white love interests and get flack for it. Black folks have been critiquing not only that but also the colourism where lighter-skinned characters get all the love. Would it be nice in white predom countries to have shows/films where same-race/heritage relations flourish romantically? Yes, absolutely. But I would rather have all the mediocrity that will hopefully lead to greatness than leaving up representation to white showrunners/directors/heads.
To be honest, I think her issue is very similar to Kenya Barris: people see the pattern, and the problematic aspects of it, and it's gone on for too long.
It's why I stopped watching his stuff too.
RE: Big Sick, three issues
1) Putting down Pakistani girls "because his parents sent them to him" to prop up white love interest
2) The well known "laughing at us" thing (cultural self loathing)
3) Casting non-brown actress to play as a Pakistani woman, bad accent included. (Vella Lovell)
It's why I stopped watching his stuff too.
RE: Big Sick, three issues
1) Putting down Pakistani girls "because his parents sent them to him" to prop up white love interest
2) The well known "laughing at us" thing (cultural self loathing)
3) Casting non-brown actress to play as a Pakistani woman, bad accent included. (Vella Lovell)
The Big Sick is a shallow, terrible movie that imo reflects very poorly on the creator.
Desi girl BAD
White girl GOOD
Typical self hating pandering to white people
These are not uncommon criticisms. I do find it funny when white people defend it though
Yo, what?? While this overall discussion does seem productive, why are we using a site like this as a source for discussion?
Damn, guess I missed all of this when I watched. Granted I'm a black dude so I don't have the cultural background to have picked up on a lot of those elements. I looked up criticism of the movie and it seems like in a recent interview he's said he regrets their depiction now.
Holy shit, even looking at her pictures I wouldn't have guessed if I didn't see her name or was told
She was on Crazy Ex-Girlfriend at the same time, and her parents there were black and white.
Kumail exploited the "subservient Indian woman" stereotype to a detrimental effect. All the desi girls in the movie were stereotypes and he made fun of girls who are shy, modest, etc. He goes for the white girl in the end. Needless to say, the movie was lauded by white critics but hated by desis, especially women. I understand it's an autobiographical account, but he could have done so without stereotype. These people are not our allies.
There was a huge outcry but it was snuffed from all the clapping Kumail got from white people.
That's the thing. He shoot his shot, claimed fame, and regrets stereotyping women from his own fucking background. Grown ass dude who was yuk yuking at his women from his own ethnic background. Sorry but the "regret" thing is hollow.
"So, I shaved my head, trimmed my long Indian eyelashes, and applied to medical school as a black man,"
Mindy Kaling's brother: I faked being black to get into medical school | CNN
Actress Mindy Kaling's brother, Vijay Chokal-Ingam, says he posed as black to get into medical school. He's trying to pitch a book deal on the experience.
www.cnn.com
dying at that quote
Im surprised about Aziz and Kumail. I'm not too in depth familiar with their work but is there any specific roles they've played that does terrible for South Asians?
Wasn't Master of None a critical success due to being pretty realistic regarding Aziz's life as a South Asian?
OP
OP
don't all comedians do self-deprecating jokes though? like Larry David does jewish jokes all the time, Curb and Seinfeld is full of them. obviously if they're hacks than that's boring, but i don't think it's a comedian's role to JUST be an ally
It's not the same. For example, Russel Peters has a joke about how Indian girls are hairy. That is a super sore spot for many woman who don't fit into white beauty standards.
The TikTok someone posted noted tat one of the reasons Dave Chappelle quit his show (iirc?) is because he noticed a white guy laughing a little to hard at his jokes about Black people. It's kind of like that. It's not always funny inside jokes people of that group can also laugh at.
I don't know about articles that sight things like TikTok videos or tweets. People on the internet complain about everything, I don't know what the point even is. Hardly hart hitting journalism to say the least.
Holy shit. That's cringe. This is exactly what I'm talking about.
Hopefully she is able to write nuanced, confident desi characters in future.
Same goes for Kumail.
Mindy Kaling's brother: I faked being black to get into medical school | CNN
Actress Mindy Kaling's brother, Vijay Chokal-Ingam, says he posed as black to get into medical school. He's trying to pitch a book deal on the experience.
www.cnn.com
They both internalized white supremacy, it just manifests in different ways
People dont watch Larry David solely for his Jewish jokes. People go to Russell Peters shows just to laugh at his jokes at the expense of Indian people.
I think there's a huge difference between self depracating (making fun of yourself) versus making fun of your culture for cheap laughs. Sure there is room for making fun of things from your culture, but without punching down. For example, I think Hasan Minhaj is an excellent comedian and has touched upon real issues, while also taking harmless shots at his own background. The whole thing boils down to whether you're punching up or punching down and the people I listed seem like they're punching down (inadvertently or not, I don't know). But if you're a minority with a sizeable platform, you have to be responsible. We already do not have representation as is. The most famous Indian guy on TV was played by white guy for 2 decades, and growing up, being called Apu or being told Thank You Please Come Again for giggles, it is great to see actual representation. But when the representation simply speaks to how your background is inferior to white culture, or you must blend in for societal acceptance, or being brown is just like being white plus added baggage from home, it looks like we didn't make any progress since Apu.
that's fair, Peters did always seem more hacky and played the stereotypes for an easy laugh
You have a mental fuckery ledger, you keep receipts. I am the same way
Wtf...what is that from? That is so terrible lol
(Note that I havent really seen anything else from Mindy Kaling aside from Velma lol)
Of course its on Netflix....of course I wouldnt know lol
I must be like the only person who's never subbed to Netflix.
Ewww wtf is this? This is like so self hating. Ugh
Also, anyone also offended that they don't even have Scooby Doo in the show even though it has every other single character?
That and the fact that every character is based on some shitty Reddit/4chan trope
Scooby got Scrappy'd lol
jk
(I think there was mention that Scooby would appear in a future episode)?
(I think there was mention that Scooby would appear in a future episode)?
But ya , as a big Scooby Doo fan, I was disappointed.
I thought it was gonna be a Scooby Doo type of show but they dialed up all the bad aspects/tropes of the other characters and removed Scooby lol.
The sad thing is it felt like it was obvious how the show SHOULD have gone down. It should have been about the regular Scooby gang, and a new character comes in played by a Mindy Kaling stand-in who is the audience voice and comments on how weird and wild the mystery gang is. "You... uh... share food with your dog Shaggy and sleep next to him? Why do you wear escots Fred, isn't that like from the 50s? Am I the first non white friend you guys have ever had? Why do you guys think ghosts are real when every time you find out its a scam?"
Just running commentary on all the insane things the gang does and their mysteries, and it would have been well liked by all.
but instead I have no idea what her goal was and its been kinda funny how its almost universally hated by groups that normally disagree on everything. 2023, when almost everyone in America agreed Velma sucks.
Just running commentary on all the insane things the gang does and their mysteries, and it would have been well liked by all.
but instead I have no idea what her goal was and its been kinda funny how its almost universally hated by groups that normally disagree on everything. 2023, when almost everyone in America agreed Velma sucks.
Everyone keeps quoting this and agreeing but the clip cuts out the part where the guy tells her why she's wrong?
As an autobiographical show it's fine. Like I'm not calling for a ban or prohibition. People can make whatever they want, they can be sellouts, authentic, whatever. But his show does nothing for representation, and in fact punches down many times. It is heavily filtered for the white gaze. Everything seems to pass the checkmark of what makes white audience happy. There was an episode where he comes out as an atheist, makes his relative eat pork, and then they skip over Eid celebration and go to a BBQ fest. The relative is like, wow I have been missing out on good stuff. It is a trope at best. Letting go of your identity to become "enlightened" westerner. If that was his experience, then sure it's a funny story. But it comes at the expense of others who do celebrate Eid. Where is the representation where people are actually proud of their roots, tradition, culture? People are left with thinking that Aziz character is the one that got out from the barbarism of his background. The enlightened one. And in doing so he has become free. There's more criticism to be found in the show. Also Aziz himself is a creep but that is a different story.
Lol thank you, I was gonna quote and ask about what exactly happens with this character because it looks like that view is a part of an arc for her exactly due to what the guy said.
This is why it's better to just ignore out of context snippet criticism, but yeah, it's a losing battle, it's simply easier to to make an assumption based off 10 seconds and run with it.
I was just about to say the same after finally watching the clip. Not to mention what they're both saying is pretty true to a lot of people's experiences.