I haven't played in a while but why? What has changed that made it bad?
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Kotaku: "Overwatch Players Want Blizzard To Rework Mercy, But Can't Agree On How"
- Thread starter NeoRaider
- Start date
I haven't played in a while but why? What has changed that made it bad?
that's dazzle's shallow grave and i could see that working
or something like wraith king's aghs ult where allies that die in range of WK get revived as ghosts for a few seconds before disappearing
Pretty much.
Casual Mercy fans want the ability to get play of the game while being fairly useless for the rest of the match. The rework still made her absurdly good with good players using her, so she got nerfed. So now you're in this weird spot of appealing to the casual fanbase and the competitive fanbase with a character that'll somehow piss off both regardless of what Blizzard does.
Blizzard don't even know what they wanna do with their game, how can you expect a fans to know.
yes but set the hp of everyone she revives to 25
also they can be killed while in that yellow state where they cant move
(no, dont bring that ult back)
The thing is you can say the same thing about a lot of the ults. It feels like the problem here is how game changing ults can be in general. Mercy's primary function is (or was supposed to be) as a pure healer so it makes sense that she should be the most picked in that role just as it wouldn't be surprising to see Rein highly selected as a must pick tank. DPS players are going to rightfully be frustrated by an OP Mercy because in her old state she can essentially erase an entire push worth of work in one ult but it's no less frustrating as a healer to level off your entire team only to have all that erased in an instant by a flanking McCree or Pharah ult. Mercy just attracted a hell of a lot more hatred when she was in her old state as healers just aren't as respected in the game as the DPS roles are.
It's not inherently bad unless most of the people playing the game have terrible ideas. The rapid feedback loop of community suggestions and patches has done wonders for a lot of smaller games so it might work in the AAA space as well.
Players are at least good at knowing there's a problem, even if they're not always good at finding the fix. And knowing that there's a problem is half the battle.
The original one was broken as fuck & promoted the "hide & res/die on the point" play-style, which wasn't fun for the enemy or for Mercy.
She has chain heal, chain damage boost, and can fucking fly when she's in Valk. How is this useless? More to the point, Mercy is the purest support in the game and I think many people dislike the fact that she's not as offensively inclined as the other supports. Which, to me, is fine. She's a specific type of support.
You are drunk.
Valk basically is a hard stop for any push. It is SUPER good, as long as the team stays together.
Current Mercy is fine. All the supports right now are in a good place. Mercy may be a stronger pick now more than ever now that Ashe can pair with a mccree for super crazy mid to long range damage.
Tanks need to be looked out before Mercy.
I see what you did there.
It would logically be the opposite, choked maps are detrimental to fast classes because there's not as much room to evade or flank. If you look like an Overwatch-esque TF2 map like Dustbowl, Scout is pretty useless. Tracer and the other "dive" characters still being really great has more to do with the character balance and is largely in spite of the map design.
TF2 meta was two scouts, two soldiers, a demo, and a medic. All of them but the medic are pretty fast, though I don't know if I'd say it was comparable to dive specifically.
nah that's a load of crap. there's 3 main healers in the game and for months 1 was picked at a far higher rate than the other two, which is a clear balance problem when the entire idea behind your game is pick flexibility and different synergistic compositions. mercy post-rework was the best pick in every conceivable situation and picking ana or moira as main healer was tantamount to throwing.
a flanking mccree or pharah ult solo wiping your team means your team sucks shit and deserves to lose. you can win fights with those ults but it requires coordination and multiple abilities, never just one DPS going behind and pressing q.
and a good healer is easily more valuable than a good dps. hell the league MVP of OWL season 1 was a zen/ana player.
The big rez ult only really affected low tier play, anything above that would just save ults for rez and win the fight anyway
The sentiment when valk was somehow worse than the old rez is actual insanity
I say change her back so that she may fall into irrelevancy again (who knows with how team comps are these days it can prolly work way better)
Game won't be entirely fixed until supports stop having as much power as they have anyway
The sentiment when valk was somehow worse than the old rez is actual insanity
I say change her back so that she may fall into irrelevancy again (who knows with how team comps are these days it can prolly work way better)
Game won't be entirely fixed until supports stop having as much power as they have anyway
It's not as bad as it used to be but yeah it's rotten to the core in this regard
yeah but tracer and scout aren't exactly the same in playstyle besides being fast and having burst damage. tracer having triple blink means she's faster over short distances since she can essentially teleport on top of you, so tighter maps help since she doesn't have to be in the open much. in a map like king's row or blizzard world she can instantly reach the back lines from around a corner at any point, scout can't do that.
They won't be happy until she's broken as fuck again. Can't accept that she's actually balanced for once.
I started playing the game in February of 2018 and loved playing her until the August nerf. Since then it was just brutal and I've essentially given up. Felt like I couldn't keep up and contribute enough in comp and my SR plummeted. I know I'm not a great player but man it was just depressing and not fun anymore.
The problem with Mercy's original ult was that there was no way to counter it. As long as she's sitting on it, there's nothing you can do outside of killing her ahead of time, which can be hard sometimes as you can just sit and a corner and pop it.
If they had a window where you could kill her in the process, it would be fine. However, if I'm remembering correctly, they patched it from having a small delay, to no delay.
If they had a window where you could kill her in the process, it would be fine. However, if I'm remembering correctly, they patched it from having a small delay, to no delay.
Should have left her alone to begin with, at least not such a drastic redesign. Half of the problems in Overwatch are solved by rolling back to 2016.
Other half are solved by content updates, god fucking forbid, though, right? Just keep shitting out lootbox holidays.
Other half are solved by content updates, god fucking forbid, though, right? Just keep shitting out lootbox holidays.
That's more the core of what I'm getting at, which is that Tracer's mobility is based on what's essentially a teleport function on cooldown. It takes skill to utilize it at a professional level but mechanically it's so easy to use that even the newest player can effortlessly bypass a choke point, which is why it has to be balanced with stuns and such. If her mobility were more "natural" and skill-indexed it wouldn't be necessary for every other character to have a stun specifically to counter Tracer.
It was bizarre her ult was changed to begin with since she never had the sort of high end representation compared to someone like Lucio . It seemed to me as if the reason for the change wasn't for balancing but rather to satisfy a particular section of the community who dislike any sort of strategy or alterations to traditional deathmatch shootouts. It was never as if walking behind a wall to find their Mercy was difficult, it was just they didn't like doing it since it meant taking their finger off the trigger for a few seconds and doing some actual scouting and strategising.
It would be nice for Blizzard to admit they made a mistake on this and revert Valkyrie back to Mass Ress and make Mercy feel special again.
It would be nice for Blizzard to admit they made a mistake on this and revert Valkyrie back to Mass Ress and make Mercy feel special again.
Nah, bunch of low skilled players wanting the lowest skill bar character to return. Mercy prior to the rework was shit. Hide and wait. Mercy after the rework was literally god. She wasn't fun to play or play against in either scenario, outside of individuals who only wanted to play just her. She's in a good spot now, because to use her, you actually have to make adjustments to your play.
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I really encourage you to look back at OW events from before her ult was reworked because you're not at all remembering what actually went down with her at high levels(it went down at all levels of play).
I would be happy with some rework.
I do believe she is balanced now, but she is just not much fun to play...
But the "all team ressurect" should not make a comeback!
I do believe she is balanced now, but she is just not much fun to play...
But the "all team ressurect" should not make a comeback!
I mean if your team runs no tanks and has the game sense of a potato that can happen, but what your desribing here is "my enitre team got bodied by the weakest flanking ults in the game and i want to be able to correct all their mistakes instantly". Its incredibly easy to block both of these ults especially if you have any sense of what is going on (especially mcree, because he has no mobility, is super loud, and glows red while he's charging it up).
I've played a lot of mercy poat super nerfs to 50 hps and I gotta say she's still a lot more fun to me then ana, basically only because of the Guardian angle cancel that can let you zip ariund the entire map and juke everyone.
I'm basing that on a video from Aria Rose (who the thread is about) from Mercy's pick rate and tiers through the seasons.
Honestly, no. She was always viable, but Zenyatta (and Mercy at the time) were too strong and dictated the entire game. Healing through teammates is a godsend though.
Overwatch has a lot of problems fundamentally. Ultimates are way too impactful, some heroes do too much or have been buffed significantly to the point they are borderline overpowered (even if they aren't meta), and the lack of hero bans or role limits means you are going to play against some busted composition most of the time. Hero bans in a competitive environment would combat a lot of overpowered comps and would actually make the heroes at play more diverse. Role limits might seem like an overstep, but it would make balancing individual heroes much easier since now they only have to compete with the other heroes in their role.
Mercy needs to be designed similar to other supports in my opinion. Ana could be considered primarily a healer, but she can actually kill people and because she has to aim at teammates to heal this gives the player satisfaction. Mercy is a healer who cannot deal damage reliably, her only focus is support her allies with her heal and damage boost, occasionally resurrecting someone. Then you get her ultimate and nothing changes, but your beam now chains and you can fly. Mercy needs some engaging abilities, but I definitely agree I would not just address Mercy.
The major Mercy rework happened because of the opposite; at the top levels Mercy was irrelevant outside of tiny amount of situations (and since she's one of the lower skill-ceiling characters no-one really cared outside of getting a Mercy main making games much harder), but mass-res was brokenly good at lower levels where people didn't mitigate it's effect or exploit the flaws a Mercy comp had vs better healers, so most of the whining came from the lower tiers. Then the initial rework made her the hands-down best hero in the game at all levels, and she's only just starting to approach being somewhat balanced again now.
As someone who gravitated towards becoming a pseudo-Mercy main after the rework (like a lot of flex/support players) I actually unironically enjoy playing her now (even if I still mostly prefer to play the alternatives), so I'm fine with her staying how she is with some tweaks here and there as things develop *cough* GOATS goes away *cough* and metas that naturally play to her strengths more come back.
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Her original ult was really bad. Often it led to Mercy hiding while the enemy team did their push with, after which she would float in to resurrect the team. That wasn't fun, if your team sucked with their placement and you had to fiddle your location to get the most revives as well as Mercy being extremely vulnerable in that moment. Not fun. I don't think current Mercy is bad, she does healing well and her ult is great. I would like more healing, or the damage boost to have more visible impact. Maybe an ability on cooldown to boost heals or damage in a small radius (like a mini Lucio), because flipping through teammates can also be tiring and annoying.
Fuuuuuuuuuck no.
I can't believe how many think Mercy is weak or overly nerfed. You folks know she still has Damage Amp right? That ability is amazing, and with Ashe and the newly buffed Mcree she enables them beautifully.
Ana is on top for supports right now but all of the healers are perfectly viable and powerful.
I don't get the jump from Mercy being boring to play now to wanting mass rez back. That was awful, where she had less utility and options on top of literally hiding in corners, telling your team to die faster was a better than being out in the fight healing people. That was a truly awful meta for anyone playing Mercy.
People always talk about how low skill Mercy is, but that just reveals how unfamiliar they are with the character. At the actually low skill levels of play, your tanks do not protect your healers at all and Mercy has the most challenging toolset when it comes to survivability of any of the supports, barring perhaps Zenyatta. If you're actually playing among low skill players, keeping alive as Mercy actually is a challenge. If you're amongst high skill players than presumably you have the ability and just prefer her play style.
It seriously feels like sometimes people are arguing that Mercy should stay broken because people who play her aren't "good enough" to deserve a fun experience. Not only weirdly spiteful, but honestly uninformed about the dynamics of healing at low levels.
It seriously feels like sometimes people are arguing that Mercy should stay broken because people who play her aren't "good enough" to deserve a fun experience. Not only weirdly spiteful, but honestly uninformed about the dynamics of healing at low levels.
Blizzard literally had everyone tell them not to change mercy and just like that they did and killed her with it.
This is honestly misunderstanding the original Mercy Problem.
There was a particular strategy employed by many Mercy players at that was rewarded by the game's skill rating system. This strategy — hiding from your team to resurrect them after they all die — is not a very good strategy. It was likely quite effective at low levels of the game, but as reflected by Mercy's low tier rating and the typical Mercy's sub-40% win rate it isn't that great beyond that, to the extent that at higher levels there was a perception that Mercy players of this kind were making games harder to win for the rest of their team. The SR system favored these mass rezes so much that players who pulled them off would be given boatloads of SR if they won and lose practically nothing if they lost.
And it wasn't really a secret that she benefited disproportionately from the SR system. That made Mercy ubiquitous in high level games even if she wasn't necessarily all that popular at lower levels. This wouldn't normally be a problem, but Mercy requires so few conventional FPS skills that experience with her doesn't provide you with the skills necessary to play other heroes. This is a big problem if there are two Mercy mains on the same team since one of them will be forced to play something else and they probably won't be very good at it. This is a really big problem when you're playing in the highest matchmaking tier and you've got four Mercy players on your team that have dramatically climbed in a short period of time who, on top of probably not being very good Mercy players, almost certainly can't play any other character at a level appropriate for the game they've been matched into. So there was that, but maybe they've fixed the SR system by now.
She also was completely broken on some maps. I remember all the 2CP maps were pretty much unplayable because the maps were small enough that Mercy could literally resurrect her entire team from spawn.
I hope she never gets her old ult back, that shit was just straight up annoying and frustrating.
and at low levels your divers go fight tanks and ignore the healers for whatever reason. that was the main problem with ther mass rez, she was always alive at the end of a teamfight