Delusibeta

Prophet of Truth
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
5,648
What problem does this solve for kickstarter? How do consumers/developers benefit from this switch?
So, for 'protocol' read 'cryptocurrency' (that's basically what the article defining the word that Kickstarter linked says). So yeah, speculating on the value of the KScoin and all the "alternative economic activity" (read: fraud and crime) that it and all the other cryptocurrenies enable.
 
Nov 30, 2017
2,750
I don't think you actually read this article because it says "VISA isn't perfectly representative for the global financial system. But even a comparison with the average non-cash transaction in the regular financial system still reveals that an average Bitcoin transaction requires several thousands of times more energy."

So you might want to back off the claim that it's more efficient than Visa.

lol like I said all you did is read that one article claim to your biases and didn't bother reading the other one which is not bitcoin.

bitcoin doesn't handle anything g other than peer to peer transactions. There are no smart contracts or NFT's on it
 

shacklesmcgee

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,715
here's the bitcoin vs Visa article

digiconomist.net

Bitcoin Energy Consumption Index - Digiconomist

The Bitcoin Energy Consumption Index provides the latest estimate of the total energy consumption of the Bitcoin network.

And here's a report on Solana

solana.com

Solana’s Energy Use Report: November 2021

The average Solana transaction takes less energy than many other common household activities.

Oh c'mon, you can't talk about articles/sites being biased against crypto then link Solanas own website as a source

lol like I said all you did is read that one article claim to your biases and didn't bother reading the other one which is not bitcoin.

bitcoin doesn't handle anything g other than peer to peer transactions. There are no smart contracts or NFT's on it

The second link isn't an "article", it's marketing/PR.
 

Pharaun

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,060
lol like I said all you did is read that one article claim to your biases and didn't bother reading the other one which is not bitcoin.

bitcoin doesn't handle anything g other than peer to peer transactions. There are no smart contracts or NFT's on it

Oh I read the other one too, but the claims are dubious. There's nothing in there detailing how that network actually verified it's energy usage. It appears to just be guesswork from what I can see.
 

Rune Walsh

Too many boners
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,100
Oh c'mon, you can't talk about articles/sites being biased against crypto then link Solanas own website as a source



The second link isn't an "article", it's marketing/PR.

What cracks me up is that Solana represents a lot of worst aspects of crypto. It's not decentralized in the least, was hacked, and still managed to increase its price by 11,000% in the last year. It's only plus is that it's proof-of-stake.
 

Delusibeta

Prophet of Truth
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
5,648
Oh I read the other one too, but the claims are dubious. There's nothing in there detailing how that network actually verified it's energy usage. It appears to just be guesswork from what I can see.
As I understand it, the Solana blockchain is wholly hosted on Google Cloud. Which on the one hand does make the environmental impact Google's problem, on the other hand it makes an utter mockery of the notion of decentralisation. See also the Vice article a couple of pages ago about dYdX, a cryptocurrency exchange, getting knocked offline due to the AWS outage.
 
Nov 30, 2017
2,750
Oh I read the other one too, but the claims are dubious. There's nothing in there detailing how that network actually verified it's energy usage. It appears to just be guesswork from what I can see.

so how far do you think they are off from their guesswork. Let's say it's off by double. It still uses equal energy to a google search. Let's say they are off 4 fold. Then it uses as much energy as two google searches.
Irregardless this claim that blockchain tech is energy intensive isn't relevant to newer blockchain tech.
 
Nov 30, 2017
2,750
What cracks me up is that Solana represents a lot of worst aspects of crypto. It's not decentralized in the least, was hacked, and still managed to increase its price by 11,000% in the last year. It's only plus is that it's proof-of-stake.

So we are moving goalposts from environment destroying now.

also BTC had a bug in its code in its early stages had to hard fork.

ETH was exploited in its early stages and hard forked as well. Also both were centralized before becoming decentralized.

which is how every blockchain starts
 

Delusibeta

Prophet of Truth
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
5,648
So we are moving goalposts from environment destroying now.

also BTC had a bug in its code in its early stages had to hard fork.

ETH was exploited in its early stages and hard forked as well. Also both were centralized before becoming decentralized.

which is how every blockchain starts
I mean, it's not exactly goalpost moving when it's pointed out that the only thing cryptocurrenices do better than fiat is enabling crime.
 
Nov 30, 2017
2,750
Oh c'mon, you can't talk about articles/sites being biased against crypto then link Solanas own website as a source



The second link isn't an "article", it's marketing/PR.

www.google.com

Report claims each Solana TX uses less energy than 2 Google searches

According to a new report from Solana, the network is more eco-friendly than both ETH and XRP.

www.google.com

One Solana transaction uses as little energy as two Google searches

Solana has revealed its network energy consumption statistics for November show a standard SOL transaction now only consumes 1,837 Joules of energy – fewer than two Google searches.

www.google.com

Solana claims 1 transaction on its network consumes less energy than 2 Google searches

A single transaction on Solana network uses 0.00051 kilowatt-hour (kWh), or 1,836 Joules, of energy, while an average Google search uses 0.0003 kWh or 1,080 Joules of energy.
 

reKon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,939
this place is going to be kicking and screaming about anything blockchain related for a long ass time even if the underlying tech is significant

on a basic level, we're talking about something that could replace the entire audit function from a transactional level (double-entry accounting), which has major implications for the entire practice from the largest accounting firms (EY, PwC, etc)

the whole Robinhood trading mess with them, citadel, and the clearing house wouldn't have been an issue if were running on blockchain technology (would need to be a blockchain that can process it everything fast enough - not all are the same). There would be no need for an intermediary.
 

Rune Walsh

Too many boners
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,100
So we are moving goalposts from environment destroying now.

also BTC had a bug in its code in its early stages had to hard fork.

ETH was exploited in its early stages and hard forked as well. Also both were centralized before becoming decentralized.

which is how every blockchain starts

Like I said before, I'm pro-crypto. I just think it was a poor example when you could go with ADA or ONE, but if we're plugging our favorites... well... *wink wink*
 

Delusibeta

Prophet of Truth
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
5,648
three links to articles copying and pasting the previously linked solana.com article
Repeating yourself won't make you any more convincing.

Side note: proof-of-stake has a theoretical flaw of rogue validators joining the chain despite having staked zero crypto and attempting to record false transactions to the blockchain. It's not something I'm aware of happening in practice, but I would fully expect a large quantity of money will be put into attacking Ethereum 2.0 once that enters production, it's far too juicy of a target to ignore.
 

shacklesmcgee

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,715
www.google.com

Report claims each Solana TX uses less energy than 2 Google searches

According to a new report from Solana, the network is more eco-friendly than both ETH and XRP.

www.google.com

One Solana transaction uses as little energy as two Google searches

Solana has revealed its network energy consumption statistics for November show a standard SOL transaction now only consumes 1,837 Joules of energy – fewer than two Google searches.

www.google.com

Solana claims 1 transaction on its network consumes less energy than 2 Google searches

A single transaction on Solana network uses 0.00051 kilowatt-hour (kWh), or 1,836 Joules, of energy, while an average Google search uses 0.0003 kWh or 1,080 Joules of energy.

Those articles are just rewriting that exact same Solona "report"
 

Delusibeta

Prophet of Truth
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
5,648
the whole Robinhood trading mess with them, citadel, and the clearing house wouldn't have been an issue if were running on blockchain technology (would need to be a blockchain that can process it everything fast enough - not all are the same). There would be no need for an intermediary.
I mean, from the one hand I've seen plenty of exchanges completely shit the bed when demand gets too high (usually during sudden price falls as everyone tries to get their money out). On the other hand, expecting zero intermediaries is going to lead to disappointment. I think that's a large part of why there's so much venture capital being dumped into crypto companies at the moment, they want to own the next YouTube-style functional monopoly
 

Deleted member 22002

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
478
Consider I only back tabletop gaming projects, I guess this is Gamefound's best day ever.

Obviously I will never use Kickstarter again until they change their minds.
 

Delusibeta

Prophet of Truth
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
5,648
Is blockchain quantum computer proof?
Eh. The big thing that crypto-advocates completely ignore is that while blockchains are good at recording that a transaction happened, it does nothing to verify that all parties involved in that transaction gave their authorization for said transaction. Practical example: you click on a dodgy link that masquerades Arbitrary Crypto Exchange, and give the dodgy site your username and password. Dodgy site then uses these credentials to log into your account and send all your crypto assets you have on the exchange to a wallet they control. As far as the blockchain is concerned, this is a valid transaction. Meanwhile, all your cryptoassets are gone, and there's no way to reverse the transaction.
 

jman2050

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
5,871
this place is going to be kicking and screaming about anything blockchain related for a long ass time even if the underlying tech is significant

on a basic level, we're talking about something that could replace the entire audit function from a transactional level (double-entry accounting), which has major implications for the entire practice from the largest accounting firms (EY, PwC, etc)

the whole Robinhood trading mess with them, citadel, and the clearing house wouldn't have been an issue if were running on blockchain technology (would need to be a blockchain that can process it everything fast enough - not all are the same). There would be no need for an intermediary.

That does not and probably will never exist.
 

Alucrid

Chicken Photographer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,524
i guess they see the kickstarter model losing relevance. instead of being the company that funds projects they're going to be the company that sells the tools to others who want to build a platform to fund projects.
 

Delusibeta

Prophet of Truth
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
5,648
i guess they see the kickstarter model losing relevance. instead of being the company that funds projects they're going to be the company that sells the tools to others who want to build a platform to fund projects.
But Square* already exists. And I think you (and Kickstarter, to be fair) underestimate how important having a centralised, long-established platform in generating end-user confidence, especially considering we're talking about effectively pitches to do a thing in exchange for advance money, and there's very little to prevent people taking the money and running. With Kickstarter, there's at least a perception that they'd do *something* even if it's just banning the runner from the plstform. With PleaseCrowdfundMyCoolProjektdoteth, there's nothing.

*other payment providers are available.
 

Stooge

Member
Oct 29, 2017
11,505
the whole Robinhood trading mess with them, citadel, and the clearing house wouldn't have been an issue if were running on blockchain technology (would need to be a blockchain that can process it everything fast enough - not all are the same). There would be no need for an intermediary.

I'm sorry - please explain how the blockchain would have fixed the problem. I'm extremely curious both to what the issue was in your opinion and how the blockchain could fix it?
 

Delusibeta

Prophet of Truth
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
5,648
Should Resetera move its forum posts to blockchain?
Hot take: I'm genuinely surprised nobody's attempted to duct tape phpBB to a blockchain and try to promote it as a decentralised alternative* to Discord.

*insert joke about IRC and Mumble already existing here
 

H.Cornerstone

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,825
So question, I am confused, is KS completely getting rid of Cash transactions, or setting up a seperate site that will handle bitcoin? IE they'll still have classic KS that will do cash and then this new KS that will be bitcoin?
 

Delusibeta

Prophet of Truth
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
5,648
So question, I am confused, is KS completely getting rid of Cash transactions, or setting up a seperate site that will handle bitcoin? IE they'll still have classic KS that will do cash and then this new KS that will be bitcoin?
Nobody knows. I'd like to think they'd have enough wit to not require all transactions to be made in cryptocurrency, but then again if they had that much wit they would realise announcing this we go down like a lead balloon amongst its userbase, so I won't rule out them being that dumb.
 

Alucrid

Chicken Photographer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,524
But Square* already exists. And I think you (and Kickstarter, to be fair) underestimate how important having a centralised, long-established platform in generating end-user confidence, especially considering we're talking about effectively pitches to do a thing in exchange for advance money, and there's very little to prevent people taking the money and running. With Kickstarter, there's at least a perception that they'd do *something* even if it's just banning the runner from the plstform. With PleaseCrowdfundMyCoolProjektdoteth, there's nothing.

*other payment providers are available.

so? it's not like the audience who wants to hear "blockchain technology" is likely to be risk adverse. they still have kickstarter as a platform, but this way if a competitor blows up and it's built of their platform they still win.

So question, I am confused, is KS completely getting rid of Cash transactions, or setting up a seperate site that will handle bitcoin? IE they'll still have classic KS that will do cash and then this new KS that will be bitcoin?

they're building a platform that will let anyone use their tools and infrastructure to make their own crowdsourcing site. kickstarter will be migrated to this platform when it's done but nothing from the end user experience of kickstarter will change. they'll still accept credit cards because why wouldn't they?
 
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RetroRunner

Member
Dec 6, 2020
4,997
so how far do you think they are off from their guesswork. Let's say it's off by double. It still uses equal energy to a google search. Let's say they are off 4 fold. Then it uses as much energy as two google searches.
Irregardless this claim that blockchain tech is energy intensive isn't relevant to newer blockchain tech.
I claim they are off by 3 orders of magnitude, prove me wrong!
 
Nov 30, 2017
2,750
I claim they are off by 3 orders of magnitude, prove me wrong!



But it doesn't matter once the narrative of destroying the environment doesn't have a leg to stand on the argument will shift to something else.

I'm just glad people in third world countries are able to make a living off of playing video games and defi now. Where they wouldn't have had those opportunities.
 

ConfusingJazz

Not the Ron Paul Texas Fan.
Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,965
China
So I guess the crowdfunding well is drying and the CEO is trying raise more capital for some reason?
 

spam musubi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,406

But it doesn't matter once the narrative of destroying the environment doesn't have a leg to stand on the argument will shift to something else.

I'm just glad people in third world countries are able to make a living off of playing video games and defi now. Where they wouldn't have had those opportunities.

hilarious argument (assuming you actually care and it's not just for the sake of winning a forum argument), but taking in at face value, just out of curiosity, whose money are they making? as in, since they are making money, where is that money coming from? and of course, would love to see more details on what you're actually talking about. Is it axie infinity, where you have to buy in for like $600 to be able to play? and the money is made not through the actual labor but just because crypto is a hilariously unstable speculative asset so some people win (and some people lose)? because if so, acting like anything inherently valuable to crypto is the reason for the gains and not the speculative gambling would be a funny piece of cognitive dissonance. people in third world countries can live off winning the lottery too.
 
Nov 30, 2017
2,750
hilarious argument (assuming you actually care and it's not just for the sake of winning a forum argument), but taking in at face value, just out of curiosity, whose money are they making? as in, since they are making money, where is that money coming from? and of course, would love to see more details on what you're actually talking about. Is it axie infinity, where you have to buy in for like $600 to be able to play? and the money is made not through the actual labor but just because crypto is a hilariously unstable speculative asset so some people win (and some people lose)? because if so, acting like anything inherently valuable to crypto is the reason for the gains and not the speculative gambling would be a funny piece of cognitive dissonance. people in third world countries can live off winning the lottery too.

you've basically summed up all of capitalism good job you deserve a treat.

also there are 100's of games out there not one blockchain game. And they all don't have the same entry to play. Some of them are free to play even.

But give yourself a pat in the back. While you support corporations getting richer, the little guy has a chance of making some extra money in a sector of capitalism that doesn't require you or any other traditional gamer to take part in.
 

Grug

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,653
The weird ass ResetERA reaction to this stuff continues. This isn't a big deal (though, big development) and is just an improvement/long term play to how their infrastructure functions.

Anything thread that is even tangentially blockchain related basically devolves into The Two Minute Hate here. It's absolutely ridiculous.
 

Billfisto

Member
Oct 30, 2017
15,322
Canada
I'm just glad people in third world countries are able to make a living off of playing video games and defi now. Where they wouldn't have had those opportunities.

Dude, you were just ranting about being okay with slave labor earlier.

Granted, though, with the extent that they need to play the games to actually make money, it's not so much "playing video games" as "working ridiculous hours at a really shitty job".

But give yourself a pat in the back. While you support corporations getting richer, the little guy has a chance of making some extra money in a uni he industry that doesn't require you to take part in.

What are some examples? Other than Axie, whose whole model basically just makes others work to make the already-rich even richer.

Never mind that any success stories are a very small percentage of actual cases and the whole system isn't sustainable or scalable in any way.
 

spineduke

Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
8,796
hilarious argument (assuming you actually care and it's not just for the sake of winning a forum argument), but taking in at face value, just out of curiosity, whose money are they making? as in, since they are making money, where is that money coming from? and of course, would love to see more details on what you're actually talking about. Is it axie infinity, where you have to buy in for like $600 to be able to play? and the money is made not through the actual labor but just because crypto is a hilariously unstable speculative asset so some people win (and some people lose)? because if so, acting like anything inherently valuable to crypto is the reason for the gains and not the speculative gambling would be a funny piece of cognitive dissonance. people in third world countries can live off winning the lottery too.

You're wasting your time, don't expect anything but FUD, and they know it too.
 

ConfusingJazz

Not the Ron Paul Texas Fan.
Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,965
China
Pretty much my take. Plus, gives them a chance to get tech bros and crypto fans onto crowdfunding. They will announce that they "natively" support crowdfunding crypto or something like that.

Like, literally every benefit listed in here is already done. I don't understand this as anything other than "We want that crypto bro grift!"
 

Mechaplum

Enlightened
Member
Oct 26, 2017
19,027
JP
you've basically summed up all of capitalism good job you deserve a treat.

also there are 100's of games out there not one blockchain game. And they all don't have the same entry to play. Some of them are free to play even.

But give yourself a pat in the back. While you support corporations getting richer, the little guy has a chance of making some extra money in a sector of capitalism that doesn't require you or any other traditional gamer to take part in.

How is the little guy making money? ELI5 please.
 
Oct 25, 2017
20,268
the whole Robinhood trading mess with them, citadel, and the clearing house wouldn't have been an issue if were running on blockchain technology (would need to be a blockchain that can process it everything fast enough - not all are the same). There would be no need for an intermediary.

People love to say this but it's really based in wide eyed utopian dreams. Anytime large sums of money are involved and trading is happening like that either A. Regulation is around the corner or B. The money power players are already in and continuing their greed

Blockchain would have 100% not solved the Citadel problem. It's not like Citadels dealing are entirely hidden. It was clearly traceable if people identified what was happening.
 
Nov 30, 2017
2,750
I don't think these problems should be solved by throwing more (and worse) capitalism at them.

Right now this is the solution. Until there's a better one that gets pushed trough, some of us will do anything possible to get ahead in life.

To tell you the truth using blockchain isn't any worse to me than any of the capitalism going on now.

blockchain is a code. The only labor that's involved is the development of the code. But that labor is incentivized and maintaining the blockchain incentivized.

no one is forced to work in sweat shops or slave labor to make other people rich.
 

spineduke

Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
8,796
no one is forced to work in sweat shops or slave labor to make other people rich.

Right you just consume huge amounts of energy to create nothing of value. You just contribute exponentially to the climate change issue, so your wallet can get fatter. You're the little guy. You can't hurt anyone with this. Is that where this is all going? All these little guys, fucking up the planet because capitalism?

I have no respect for this grift, nor for the people who advocate for it. Pure unadulterated selfishness in its rawest form.
 
Nov 30, 2017
2,750
How is the little guy making money? ELI5 please.

there's tons of ways. There's a first person shooter game where if you develop a map and everytime people play on it you get paid.

you can create digital items that you can sell like in metaverse.

there's a company working on ways to make it cross chain or cross game.

you can play games gather xrp points which can be traded for the the game's tokens that can be sold on the market.

you can run nodes for video game companies to help keep the game running and get paid for doing it.

etc…