The only way? Probably a bit more that can be done.Nobody should be using that horrible word, at all. That's the only way we can truly move on and heal centuries of racism.
The only way? Probably a bit more that can be done.Nobody should be using that horrible word, at all. That's the only way we can truly move on and heal centuries of racism.
Nobody should be using that horrible word, at all. That's the only way we can truly move on and heal centuries of racism.
Nobody should be using that horrible word, at all. That's the only way we can truly move on and heal centuries of racism against black people.
Yeah because people made it a hashtag when others disagree with a racist generalization lol. I get that often people make that disagreement at places where it's kind of tone deaf and people throw around those generalizations because something upsetting happened to PoC, but the hashtag gets thrown around at times where disagreeing with the generalizing statement is valid as well.
Seems kinda arbitrary biologically.
Bullfuckingshit. You were bitching about not being able to be a part of a conversation about whether or not black people should be saying nigga. You equated that exclusion to segregation. Think about that shit for a second. Not being invited to a discussion about whether or not black people should say nigga is segregation to you? Not everything is for you.Not telling you how you should feel about it. I'm just tired of the incredibly confrontational rhetoric on this forum. its all about getting up in someones grill and slamming them down morally.
I'm pretty sure that the vast majority of posters on this forum agree that racism & prejudice is bad. I just wish we could focus on working out how to push for progress instead of infighting when we pretty much agree 95% of the time.
i honestly didn't knew about it before, i saw dear white people and this scene happened, i found it weird honestly! asked about it on the gaf thread at the time and learned it wasn't okay...
I never said the word in my life (especially since it's not that comon in my language), but i would have excepted that in the context of a song, it was okay to say it!
And i think a lot of people will think the same... Especially outside america, tons of fans singsthe songs in english while not understanding the lyrics at all
Not defending it, i was told it was wrong so i won't do it, i respect that! Just wondering how do you prevent people from doing it? Seems like a bad idea to invite a white person on stage when the song is full of the word
Apparently.Most people in the thread are on the same page as you. There's just a couple of people who really want to defend white people's right to drop n-bombs for some reason.
Uh-huh. That's exactly what I was saying.yeah like. people are allowed to fuck up guys, if she is genuinely sorry then whats the problem?
Why do white people keep using it?
Finnish here, there's plenty of slurs for sure. But I'm not sure anything is equilevant to "nigga". "Nekru" which is very offensive is a shorthand for "Neekeri" which comes from the word negro and has been considered offensive only from late 80's to the 90's, before that it was neutral word and even something black people here sometimes adviced of using instead of the slurs they got. It was even adviced to use that word in anti-racism education. There's still people who really want to hold on to the word, "it's just a word" "it's been used in school books" etc. But it has been replaced from products that had it like a candy "Neekerin suukko" that could be translated as "Negro's kiss" is now "Brunberg's kiss". "Neekeri" is sometimes also used about people who aren't black but still with foreign background, like Middle Eastern people. Then there's of course specific slurs for Finnish Kale, Middle Eestern people, Russians but that's not for this thread. But I don't think "Neekeri" is equilevant to "Nigger" and "Nekru" isn't to "Nigga". But there's definitely been long going discussions and changes how words are used and what is considered okay. I don't ever remember seeing any talks about using the word "nigga" when Finnish though.and why is that? Lack of education to the subject matter? Surely there are racial slurs in German, Sweden, Norway, France that are equivalent.
As a European, your thoughts replicate my thoughts on the matter succinctly. I think this should be applied to all re-claimed words.Indeed. It is very hard to argue that there is a racist intent or connotation with a fan singing a song by a black musician that contains the word without removing it. Of course, singing "nigger" is not abstaining it from being racist altogether, you could, for instance, sing a song by a racist band and then it being part of the song can hardly be an excuse. But overall the sensibility that the word may be used very freely in art by the group it has been used against but needs to be censored out by other groups does not appear to be rational to me and I feel Kendrick's reaction here was rather pity, considering it was a devout fan (obviously) who was certainly, by singing the song as written originally, not intending to hurt anyone.
Overall, my point is: It is fine to be against people using a word that has been used, historically and also currently, to demean a group of people, but if you want to reserve the right to continue using it yourself (which I do not understand at all, but I see no big issue in it either), there is one instance, where from my perspective, you need to accept all people to use the word, which is, when they cite you. Singing exactly the lyrics he or his team wrote to exactly the musical track he or his team wrote counts as a citationand not as a liberal usage of the word, so it should be acceptable from my perspective. To be clear here: Just "citing the word" instead of the whole context as a crazy loophole to get to use the word in arbitrary ways, is of course inacceptable.
I do not understand this analogy. The only reason you should not say curse words in front of children is that you should not say curse words. By doing so in front of children, you do not only misbehave yourself, but work towards nurturing this kind of misbehaviour because the child may adopt you as a role model in that sense and copy your usage of it. Doubly so if the usage of the word leads to a notable reaction in the surrounding group of people. In this sense it is universally bad to use curese words, because it indicates a lack of temper and rationality, but I'd argue in principle, using curse words is only a minor offense and one not worthy talking about much. However, using them is bad in itself, not just because you are near children. Being near children only packs an extra burden on you to behave as well as you can to provide a good role model to young and learning citizens.Anyone who thinks she should have been told to censor beforehand is missing the point: it should already be a part of your societal understanding that you have to censor yourself. Anyone who thinks black people need to stop saying the n-word simply do not have the understanding and awareness as I've previously mentioned. You would never say that absolutely every human on earth has to stop saying curse words because children could pick it up. Instead, you learn in society to self censor; that you do not say curse words in front of children. This is no different. So instead of reacting against the word, the people who use it, or whether or not you can use it: step outside of your own world and learn about something that is important to a lot of other peoples' world.
No I'm quite certain that I understood the following post:Ah so you didn't actually understand my initial post, did you? What was I telling people who are not black to stay in their lane about?
to mean that non black people should refrain from talking about the use of the word amongst black people.And if you're not black, who gives a shit what you think black should or shouldn't do regarding its usage among us. Stay in your lane.
Seems kinda arbitrary biologically.
But not really my table so I'll step aside.
Nobody should be using that horrible word, at all. That's the only way we can truly move on and heal centuries of racism against black people.
I mean, not really. It's pretty simple. If you're not mixed with some kind of black then you can't say itSeems kinda arbitrary biologically.
But not really my table so I'll step aside.
Bullfuckingshit. You were bitching about not being able to be a part of a conversation about whether or not black people should be saying nigga. You equated that exclusion to segregation. Think about that shit for a second. Not being invited to a discussion about whether or not black people should say nigga is segregation to you? Not everything is for you.
and why is that? Lack of education to the subject matter? Surely there are racial slurs in German, Sweden, Norway, France that are equivalent.
and why is that? Lack of education to the subject matter? Surely there are racial slurs in German, Sweden, Norway, France that are equivalent.
That poster was obviously beeing sarcastic
*start moving on.
I say in the sense that the debates over the use of the word are the cause of a lot of frayed tension between black people and non-black, and it's usually the people who are trying to be respectful that are made to feel frustrated and sidelined.
I say that as a white person who despises the word, would never use it in any context, and fully who acknowledges the centuries of abuse black people and people of colour have suffered.
I simply cannot see how argument that 'you can't say it, but we can' will bring us closer together and heal the seismic rift (that white people are very much the cause of, may I add).
In case you want to know for several languages: The exact word "Nigger" (capitalisation because it is a noun which is capitalised in German) exists in German, with the same meaning: A strongly deragotary name for black people, used to describe them disrespectful and even in ways questioning their status as humans. There are also slightly less aggressive, yet still definitely to-be-avoided names like "Neger" or "Mohr". It is uncommon to hear black people use "Nigger" in German though, so that's definitely a difference between the English and the German word.and why is that? Lack of education to the subject matter? Surely there are racial slurs in German, Sweden, Norway, France that are equivalent.
Yea but some dude whipping out his "23&Me" test results and arguing his right to say it because of his 1/36 mix while looking like me wouldn't fly, right?I mean, not really. It's pretty simple. If you're not mixed with some kind of black then you can't say it
That brings up an important point though, is simply using a word out of context racist? If I sang along to M.A.A.D City, would saying the full lines make me racist, even though that's just the song? I personally don't think so, to be racist there has to be harmful intent behind it or at the very least a harmful implication, verbatim singing along to a harmless song shouldn't count as being racist.It's too hard to censor yourself now? Sorry guys, I can't stop being racist. It's the way I was raised, so it's a part of my personality. It's simply too hard for me to change!
If I sang along to M.A.A.D City, would saying the full lines make me racist, even though that's just the song?
Yea but some dude whipping out his "23&Me" test results and arguing his right to say it because of his 1/36 mix while looking like me wouldn't fly, right?
Where exactly did I mention other black people being okay with non-black people using it? I wrote that people need to stop thinking just because a rapper put nigga in a song doesn't mean that all black people think it is okay for non-black people to use. Also, you seem to think that because a rapper puts nigga in a song, that is somehow an endorsement of non-black people using it.No I'm quite certain that I understood the following post:to mean that non black people should refrain from talking about the use of the word amongst black people.
Did I get it right?
So let's say we accept that premise. Then, if someone raises the fact that a particular black person is ok with white people saying it, OR thinks that nobody should say it, your go-to retort is "that person isn't the arbiter of blackness"
Well who is? You?
All you've done is create a little island for your opinion whereby anybody who isn't black doesn't have a right to disagree, and anyone who is black and disagrees doesn't count because they don't represent all black people.
im not arguing for white people being abe to say it and im not arguing for black people not being able to say it. calm your shit
Then what is the segregation that you were bitching about here? It's amusing that you think I am not calm simply because I pointed out that you are full of all kinds of shit.
All of this. Thank you.A lot of people aren't thinking through their reactions in this thread.
I'm only touching on 2 examples.
1
Rappers had a ton of concerts where they were a majority of white fans.
If you try to argue this is a set up down in bad faith or a publicity stunt you aren't considering it took decades before 2 rappers finally decided to confront the issue.
As a publicity stunt it was necessary to raise awareness and foster discussion. As a set up someone is being brave enough to push back against their source of income. After what happened with the nfl you can't argue the risk didn't exist.
2
There are so many people explicitly or implicitly calling this woman a piece of shit.
You're being even more extreme than thought police or grammar nazis. You're attributing malice from repeating words.
Kendrick being a high profile public personality needed to use his popularity to raise awareness of the issue. But we aren't going to get anywhere if you argue that someone is intently evil for repeating words. The intent behind the usage is what matters.
That woman along with everyone else except Kendrick was there to have fun. Don't blo up her actions out of proportion because it only undermines what you hope to achieve.
Do you actually think someone using a curse word is misbehavior that warrants judging their character as less than anyone else? I would argue that the truth is closer to that curse words are, perhaps much more aptly, "adult words" and thus, are simply reserved for adults to use in the same way as any other adult thing. Curse words can be used in non-temper and rational fashions, whether in casual language or as emphasis, so I'd have to disagree that they're some sort of reflection of poor behavior. I'd argue that not using these adult words around children is because, well, they're not adults.I do not understand this analogy. The only reason you should not say curse words in front of children is that you should not say curse words. By doing so in front of children, you do not only misbehave yourself, but work towards nurturing this kind of misbehaviour because the child may adopt you as a role model in that sense and copy your usage of it. Doubly so if the usage of the word leads to a notable reaction in the surrounding group of people. In this sense it is universally bad to use curese words, because it indicates a lack of temper and rationality, but I'd argue in principle, using curse words is only a minor offense and one not worthy talking about much. However, using them is bad in itself, not just because you are near children. Being near children only packs an extra burden on you to behave as well as you can to provide a good role model to young and learning citizens.
World is moreso based on perception; what people see on the outside.Yea but some dude whipping out his "23&Me" test results and arguing his right to say it because of his 1/36 mix while looking like me wouldn't fly, right?
Nigga isn't a slur. That's the whole reason it got popularized because trying to reclaim the n word is a tough pill to swallow so people like yourself sanitized it. When any black American chooses to actually use the n word they use it with the actual baggage it comes with. A lot more and more black youth do not use the term nigga with that baggage which is why increasingly they will give a pass to their closest non black friends using the term.I think it's best if people such as yourself, stopped viewing rappers as being the arbiters of blackness. It may come as a shock to you, but what rappers do and say aren't representative of all black people.
Just because it's in a song doesn't mean it ceases to be a slur if you're not black.
And if you're not black, who gives a shit what you think black should or shouldn't do regarding its usage among us. Stay in your lane.
I think the best way to avoid this would be for everyone, black people included, to stop using that word, especially in music.
Because yeah, when you sing along to a song you like, you don't always think about the lyrics and just say them in rythm. So the issue will happen over and over again.
Why invite her up to rap that song then? If it's a lyric in the song then she probably assumed she was expected to rap along with him and say it. It's hard not to feel like she was baited. And if so that's not right.
How anyone can agree with kendrick is ridiculous. He was the only one being racist. They're lyrics from the song.
I mean, preventing people from saying a word in the context of a song based purely on the colour of their skin because the word is racist is pretty ironic.
I know there is a big historical backdrop in the meaning and context of the word, but as a non-American this is just an example of how crazy you are. So it's ok to write lyrics saying nigger, it's ok for the rapper saying it, but it isn't ok to sing along with the singer (except maybe?, depending of your color skin) even if you aren't calling anyone in particular nigger, it's just lyrics.
You never feel like to start pondering, and wonder at what point stuff stopped making sense?
Dude this is like, the beginning of the track:
"Man down, where you from, nigga?"
"Fuck who you know! Where you from, my nigga?"
"Where your grandma stay, huh, my nigga?"
"This m.A.A.d city I run, my nigga"
Why the fuck would you invite someone on stage to rap along who is not even allowed to do so in whole sentences?
You act like she slipped it in where it doesn't belong.
It's pretty damn clear he knew what would happen.
And that's ok I guess, he made a point. Sucks for the lady but eh.
Can't blame her cause the word is in the lyrics, quite a lot of times as well it seems. So no, we can't blame her. A fan (hard to believe I know), finally gets on stage with her big idol and can sing HIS song with him.
Could Kendrick not have told her before they started singing to not say it? You're inviting a fan on stage, theyre gonna sing along.
She's in the wrong but you cant expect white people to not say it if its in popular songs, that's just asking too much