This is not satisfactory and he needs to be asked about whether or not he was pressured to end his investigation before he was completely finished.
Justice Department releases redacted Mueller report (See Threadmarks for Summaries)
- Thread starter GK86
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All of these examples are illegal, yes. Ignorance of the law is not exculpatory, and if you act in furtherance of a crime, even if that crime isn't ultimately committed, it's still illegal. Impeachment nowwwww
Yeah im still floored the Mueller himself opted to no prosecute on a few of these. Like I understand their stance with regards to punting to Congress on Trump but giving Don Jr and the other cronies a pass?!?
What the fuck!
If anything itll cause a rally the flag moment like 9/11 and Bush.
No I mean a launch by Trump against some place on American soil. Just a catastrophically stupid and unignorable mistake.
Any foreign action would galvanize support for him, I agree.
People would be grieving their dead family members while starving in the grey nuclear winter, and still call it Fake News.
Its entirely possible one of those 12 other investigations could be related to Don Jr and Kushner and thus is part of the redacted info. It just happens that he didn't feel that particular piece of evidence was enough to hold up in court, he likely needed more for intent.
So what is the current thinking on the Steele Dossier? Was any of it investigated? Was it discounted as a purely political document? Or as something irrelevant or impossible to substantiate? Didn't Fusion GPS stand behind it and provide thousands of backing documents to the investigation?
I was hoping that by today we'd know something solid one way or another regarding the infamous dossier, but I'm not seeing it.
I was hoping that by today we'd know something solid one way or another regarding the infamous dossier, but I'm not seeing it.
Sen. Richard Burr fed info to Trump's team
If anything it seems like Steele was on the fucking money on just about everything short of the pee pee tape being a fabrication
I really want to have someone speak to Mark Warner today regarding the information from the investigation. It suddenly makes sense one of the redactions being about ongoing investigation and the worry of leaks. Burr is one of the gang of 8 for gods sake and he literally told Trump what the FBI was investigating about him as intel chair. Besides Barr he is now the next person that needs to be reprimanded immediately.
Isn't that covered in the report?
Perhaps the tape exists- they just couldn't find it.
Yeah seriously
We have a looott of work to do and Burr needs to get hit hard for this shit
OP
OP
I'm so glad I voted for her in the primary. The freshman class are something great.
That information could likely come from testimony to a House Committee. Something that's likely coming.
I was just browsing through the report, and like two pages and a half is nothing but redactions when Corsi and Wiki leaks is mentioned in the same sentence. They've got some major dirt on him.
Yes. The report also plainly states that whether any obstruction was committed is the decision of Congress. Congress has already decided, and according to Congress, there was no obstruction. So, there was no obstruction. Any other conclusion is fantasy. It's garbage. It's also reality.
But that's exactly what these investigations will do, except without having to give Trump an enormous victory in a battle over impeachment. It isn't about swaying independents...
... it's about dominating voter enthusiasm.
Well, first of all, somehow throughout all of this Trump still seems to be able to fluctuate as high as mid-40s from the standard low/mid-30s, so as insane as it sounds (to me as much as you), there's more than two years of documented evidence of a significant number of people with the memory of gnats being swayed by the notable wins and losses of the administration.
But anyway, more important is voter enthusiasm, people turning out to vote, and people not turning out to vote. If Trump won at all, he won on voter enthusiasm. You need to sap that energy from his base and give everyone else the motivation to turn out against him. Intentionally losing an impeachment battle does the opposite of that. It pushes down the opposition, and bolsters his support. Look at how many people packed it in after the Barr summary came out. Look at how his numbers went up, how 85% of the media immediately capitulated, and how motivated his supporters were. A failed impeachment would have a thousand times the effect.
What will drive people away from him, what always has and always will drive people away from him and against him, is the fact that he's a criminal. Now that the Mueller report is out and we're not sitting here twiddling our thumbs anymore trying to evaluate the importance of every single amorphous news story, we have the means and opportunity to carve that shit into stone. Lock it in, it's not a daytime news SPECIAL REPORT anymore, it's real life criminal charges. It's all going to come out, and none of it requires impeachment. None of it requires putting Trump on stage against someone he beat in an impeachment fight.
The name I'm waiting for is Allen Weisselberg, who literally has all of the receipts. I was extremely surprised when the SCO announced the investigation was wrapping up and his name hadn't been in any capacity. There's going to be a mountain of indisputable evidence regarding tax evasion, insurance fraud, campaign finance violations, and probably a ton more.
People live to push back. You try to tear Trump out of office with a not-obstruction charge and a failed impeachment and you're just going to shore up his support. I don't know if he'd win, but there's no way it'd lessen his chances. Put that criminal stink on him for two years though, and that 8-12% of whothefuckaretheseswingpeople are just going to stay home.
There's nothing to be gained from impeachment beyond another opportunity to point out to non-Republicans that Republicans are hypocrites, and if you think there's still value in that, you're about 6 years behind the times.
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Yup. Also I'm of the opinion that it speaks damning volumes of the GOP that our congressional leaders and the public have accepted, despite all of this evidence even in a redacted and "watered" down report, that the republican held Senate will not do their job to impeach Trump. That should be a damning point to drive home for all those democrats more worried about the presidential race and their careers.
I think it was something along the lines of some Russian construction group (linked to the Kremlin, duh) informed Cohen that they would make sure the tapes didn't get out. It didn't specify what was on the tapes, though.
Essentially that they wish to gather more information before starting the process.
Among other things, getting as much of the unredacted report as possible, having Mueller testify, and attempting to have more hyper specific investigations on certain matters, likely the obstruction charges, would take priority.
It would be admitting that a single political party can take full control of the government, with no accountability, and any representation otherwise is useless. All you can do is hope your favored party gets a chance at it, assuming the deck isn't so stacked that it becomes basically impossible.
I'm ok with this strategy for now
But this shit cannot be left to rot for too long
Impeachment proceedings have to happen or they should just scrap the power all together
I think this is what they'll do either way. But if at the end they don't start the process, I don't know what message they could come up with.
Mueller handled it in a way that it's up to Congress to decide if there was obstruction or not. If they don't try to impeach him this will mean what Trump did wasn't that bad.
White old male and rich and has connections to a GOP member. Recorded on camera.
People who want to see it that way will see it that way. What it really would mean is that Congress is corrupt and broken. It is literally their job to do something about this. Checks and balances is officially over and our government no longer represents the people if Barr gets away with putting this thing away for Trump.
I can only dream within dreams that the government can reorient itself to prevent situations like this in the future, without relying on good faith again.
For now, I'll settle on leveraging the info to put as many of his appointees on their ass when his presidency is eventually found to be illegitimate.
Impeachment the way I see it has a specific endgame that you're attempting to get at. You don't need to start the impeachment process to gather the kinds of information that we'd like to see brought out into public light. Therefore, this story stays in the news and continues to be a black cloud over the White House. Impeachment proceedings going forward therefore comes out to be more of a symbolic gesture than anything concrete. If the impeachment fails then that further stymies investigations since then the conversation shifts to why we're still investigating if the Senate has already voted to acquit Trump of whatever charge he's brought up on. The way you keep this going is not impeaching Trump and instead furthering investigations while leaving impeachment as a constant threat.
That's not really true. If you're not going to impeach him immediately on the grounds that you're still attempting to build the case for it then that's not absolving Trump. You're still investigating him for the charges of obstruction and trying to make the case as air tight as possible. Gather soundbites. Get something that's easily digestible to the public. Continue letting Trump explode at every new revelation or testimony. Keep this going as long as you possibly can, because if you go for impeachment and it fails, that's pretty much it at least as it relates to the Mueller Report.
These are good answers they would face if they don't act, I don't know what they could respond to that.
yeah, he'll resign...TO A BIGGER HOUSE.
oops i said the quiet part loud and the loud part quiet
I do agree with you. I'm not talking about the message if they decide to wait before they start the process. I'm talking about the message if they decide to not impeach him at all.
Its feels like some seriously scary foreshadowing for the future of this country
If we aren't willing to hold those in power accountable then what the fuck was the point of founding this nation in the first place
Might as well go back to a Monarchy
This is what Trump and Carlson are running on at this very moment. Look at it long and good because this is what essentially what they will be running on if you don't go for it.
Don't doubt for a second that there will be people dumb enough to believe it.
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New laws need to be written because some of the stuff can't be procecuted because Intent can't be claimed
The report only just came out today, with redactions.
Mueller is going to testify before Congress at some point, and the full unredacted report still needs to be seen.
This stuff doesn't happen that fast, let's wait for at least one of the above to happen first before further action from Dems.
Yes, it should happen now, but going for the jugular once you have everything and it's even more damning is still a good move.
Fair enough.
It's just as I've seen it people are taking statements like Hoyer's and immediately jumping to the conclusion that they're not going to ever vote for impeachment which isn't how I'm reading it. It's just that people jump to that conclusion and people want to, understandably, jump to the endgame of impeachment. The problem is it doesn't serve the interests of the Democrats or the American people for them to jump immediately to voting on articles of impeachment, because when it inevitably fails then realistically we lose the Mueller Report as a talking point since then the President is truly exonerated so long as he's still in office. The most recent impeachment attempt of a president took about 2 months. I don't think we'd want to lose the Mueller Report as a talking point starting in Mid-June/Late July of this year with still about 15 months to go before the next election.
Its just incredible... how this machine operates. Its so organized and fucked up. Every conservative is willing to lie and ignore the words on the paper... and pretend this is all ok and he did nothing wrong
Its fucking dystopia
The people who are buying this are the people who've fallen for the Trump narrative that the Mueller Report was a single issue investigation: collusion.
Unfortunately since they failed to gather enough evidence to support going ahead with an indictment or at the very least the suggestion that beyond a reasonable doubt the Trump Campaign was directly working with the Russians with full knowledge of wrongdoing, they're going to continue running with this idea and then throwing in that obstruction was never out-and-out declared, despite the fact that the reasoning for that has nothing to do with Trump's perceived guilt but that if the report straight up said Trump committed a crime they would have to indict the President, something that the DOJ doesn't believe it can do, hence why it's punted to Congress. That's a big qualifier that requires some explanation that the most hardened of Trump supporters aren't going to care about so long as at the end of the day they can rest on the headline of "Mueller doesn't conclude collusion or obstruction."