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Just how bad is the lottery on Apple's laptops' keyboards?

badboy78660

badboy78660

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Oct 27, 2017
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I've got a 2011 Macbook Pro that I love, but it's on its last legs and needs replacing. I've been looking at Apple's latest offerings and can't help but feel terrified of dumping a shit-ton of money into a product that might end up costing me more (if, based on the reviews and what I've heard, will inevitably have keyboard problems) money as the years go by, in repairs. What have y'all's experiences been with their newest keyboards? I know they put that condom/membrane thing underneath the keyboards, but based on my research on other forums, reviews, input from friends, it doesn't seem like it's a significant fix. Can we actually expect Apple to come up with another permanent redesign of the keyboard in the near future to permanently address this concern?
 
Cobalt Thorium G

Cobalt Thorium G

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Dec 3, 2018
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Not sure, but my colleague just got a very nice, fully specced space grey MacBook. It's lovely, but he is so careful with it because of the keyboard issues. He has also said the keyboard isn't great to type with and looks hilarious carrying a little bag of dongles around.
 
Joule

Joule

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Nov 19, 2017
4,333
I feel you man. My summer 2012 Air is getting there. Don't know how common the keyboard issue but it's not something I'm going to deal with. I'm waiting till they fix that before buying another Macbook
 
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badboy78660

badboy78660

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Oct 27, 2017
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Lol the dongle(s) I can live with, but the keyboard issue is such a wtf thing on a computer that costs this much. What doesn't help is that the MBP I'm using right now was actually gifted to me, so this'll be my first time potentially paying over $2k for a damn laptop, out of my own pockets. But, I really dig macOS :(.
 

maxpl

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Cobalt Thorium G said:
Not sure, but my colleague just got a very nice, fully specced space grey MacBook. It's lovely, but he is so careful with it because of the keyboard issues. He has also said the keyboard isn't great to type with and looks hilarious carrying a little bag of dongles around.
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all for jon ives OCD.
 

Greatest Ever

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Aug 25, 2018
609
My MacBook 12 2017's keyboard is fine but a coworker of mine has a bad space bar on hers.

I'd still say get it though.
 
Carolina Reaper

Carolina Reaper

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Oct 27, 2017
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A co-worker has an Apple magic keyboard taped over the top of his 2018 MBP keyboard because it already failed and he can't lose the computer for a week right now to have it repaired. On the upside, he no longer has to look at that idiotic Touch Bar. Such innovation.
 
takriel

takriel

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Let no one fool you: The butterfly keyboard (even the third gen) is not good to type on. If you are someone who needs to type a lot, do NOT get the present Macbooks. Also, while they are supposed to be better protected in the third gen, some keys sometimes won't register. And this after two months of light usage.

This is unacceptable and the last time I will ever buy something from Apple.
 
Pagusas

Pagusas

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Oct 25, 2017
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Frisco, Tx
What keyboard issue? We have 8 active 2017 and 2018 MacBook Pros in our studio being used nearly 24/7 on the road or in editing, and have not had a single keyboard issue. What is the issue?
 
RDreamer

RDreamer

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Oct 25, 2017
14,116
I've got a late 2016 and it's honestly the worst fucking keyboard I've ever had the displeasure of using.

And I'm an apple fanboy pretty much.

I've broken 2 keys so far, and my space bar is completely fucked. It double spaces randomly and makes me look like I can't fucking type. I heard to fix that you had to have it out for a week but it's my work laptop so I can't. I just have to delete spaces all fucking day.
 
Atraveller

Atraveller

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Oct 25, 2017
3,308
According to Apple Insider, it's probably double the rate of old MBPs.
All data has been collected from assorted Apple Genius Bars in the U.S. that we have been working with for several years, as well as Apple-authorized third-party repair shops.

The 2014 MacBook Pro model year saw 2120 service events in the first year, with 118 related to keyboard issues necessitating an upper case replacement —5.6 percent of all MacBook Pros serviced in the first year. The 2015 has 1904 service tickets, with 114 relating to the keyboard, making 6.0 percent.

Apple released the new keyboard with the MacBook, and moved the design to the 2016 MacBook Pro. In the first year of the 2016 MacBook Pro, our data gathered 1402 warranty events, with 165 related to only the keyboard and not including the Touch Bar —11.8 percent.
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But that was gen 1 butterfly keyboard, gen3 has a silicon membrane to keep the dust out.
 
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badboy78660

badboy78660

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Oct 27, 2017
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Pagusas said:
What keyboard issue? We have 8 active 2017 and 2018 MacBook Pros in our studio being used nearly 24/7 on the road or in editing, and have not had a single keyboard issue. What is the issue?
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There are reliability issues with the "butterfly" mechanism in their newer keyboard. Apparently it's easy for minuscule particles (like hair, dust) to get under the keys and screw with the keys working the way they should.
 
Briareos

Briareos

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It's not a lottery in manufacturing, it's a lottery in how it gets exposed to debris. They've replaced my keyboard on my Macbook once, and otherwise I blow it out with compressed air every few weeks.
 
Briareos

Briareos

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badboy78660 said:
How long ago was it replaced; been working fine ever since?
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Maybe six months ago? About three months into ownership, it was somewhat annoying to have happen, but they overnighted it back and forth for repairs (the Del key had stopped working). I'd say once a month I still get a key stuck, but blowing it out fixes it. If I could get something as light with as great service as this I might consider switching but there aren't a lot of options (I also have an XPS and it's good but not great).
 

Deleted member 46493

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I'd just wait to see if they refresh the Pros this year. The newest Air's keyboard is better from what I hear.
 
Carolina Reaper

Carolina Reaper

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sotojuan said:
I'd just wait to see if they refresh the Pros this year. The newest Air's keyboard is better from what I hear.
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Doesn't appear to be an issue of dirt/dust/crumbs getting underneath the keys, but instead a problem with heat causing the metal to flex which then affects the keys. For some people what they feel is less travel all of a sudden in a grouping of keys. Others get keys that just stop working or randomly start repeating like in the video above.
 
BLEEN

BLEEN

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Oct 27, 2017
22,000
It's...bad. I wouldn't gamble personally. You can look into a laptop that supports a macOS install, alternatively and save a bunch of cash and have a working keyboard down the line. Hackintosh.
 
turbobrick

turbobrick

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Oct 25, 2017
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You could always get a refurbished 2015 macbook pro. I will be faster than what you have, but will have a better keyboard.

Or if you don't need it to be a laptop, you could always get a mac mini.

But really, even without the issues, the modern keyboards are terrible to use. I had a 2016 macbook pro for work and it was ass to type on. My 2011 macbook pro has a much nicer keyboard.
 

FantasyZone

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Oct 25, 2017
345
I'm not sure how the newest models are, but I bought a MacBook in 2017 and experienced both repeating keys and had multiple keys fall off. After enough calls and visits they eventually just sent mine in to have the whole base replaced. Definitely not buying another after all this.

Also I'm glad I bought the Apple Care as they claimed it would have cost over $800 otherwise.
 
turbobrick

turbobrick

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Carolina Reaper said:


Doesn't appear to be an issue of dirt/dust/crumbs getting underneath the keys, but instead a problem with heat causing the metal to flex which then affects the keys. For some people what they feel is less travel all of a sudden in a grouping of keys. Others get keys that just stop working or randomly start repeating like in the video above.
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If its the heat that's causing it, I wonder if adjusting the fans to make the computer run cooler would help with the issue. Macs run way too hot, and adjusting the fans to come on sooner is literally the first thing I always do on them.

BLEEN said:
It's...bad. I wouldn't gamble personally. You can look into a laptop that supports a macOS install, alternatively and save a bunch of cash and have a working keyboard down the line. Hackintosh.
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While I have a hackintosh, I don't know if I'd recommend it to the average person. A laptop build is usually harder than a desktop build as well.
 
Pagusas

Pagusas

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badboy78660 said:
There are reliability issues with the "butterfly" mechanism in their newer keyboard. Apparently it's easy for minuscule particles (like hair, dust) to get under the keys and screw with the keys working the way they should.
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Ohhh I see. We keep our studio extremely clean, so I imagine that may play a role in why we haven't experienced any issues
 
Pikachu

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I have a 2018 and haven't had any issues. After a day of using the new keyboard I tried my old Macbook Air and found the keys to be way too elevated to the point where it seemed exaggerated, and they didn't have much of a "click" to them. More a mushy feeling.

I will say the noise depends on how you type. I'm pretty calm but I have a friend who is incredibly f*cking obnoxious and BANGS every key and you can hear it from three houses down.
 

Deleted member 2226

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Oct 25, 2017
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If you're really concerned, I'd advise waiting, but I'd also point out that every new redesign of a machine tends to have its own quirks. You're inevitable almost always better off buying late in a design cycle rather than jumping on the first new one.

Based on talks with Apple Store geniuses, the keyboard and other hardware problems are nowhere near as widespread as the internet makes it out to be, but they definitely do exist (hence the repair program) and "this isn't likely to happen" isn't really a soothing answer if it happens to you.

If you really need a machine sooner rather than later buying a cheaper model and selling it before the AppleCare+ runs out is one way of recouping more money and making sure you aren't going to be paying for costly repairs.

turbobrick said:
You could always get a refurbished 2015 macbook pro. I will be faster than what you have, but will have a better keyboard.

Or if you don't need it to be a laptop, you could always get a mac mini.

But really, even without the issues, the modern keyboards are terrible to use. I had a 2016 macbook pro for work and it was ass to type on. My 2011 macbook pro has a much nicer keyboard.
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This is also a solid option. You'll get a faster machine to tide you over and will be more compatible with most people's existing setups.
 
Necromanti

Necromanti

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Oct 25, 2017
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I have a 2018 MBP and didn't have any issues with the keyboard. Though recently, I've had like one or two instances of a letter being typed twice in a row, and I'm still not sure if that's due to me accidentally pressing it twice or it getting stuck. I haven't had success recreating it.

When I first tried out a 2017 MBP butterfly keyboard in-store, I absolutely hated it. I couldn't believe how bad it felt and felt instant regret about my order. All the complaints immediately made sense when I at first didn't expect it to be that bad. Then I got my 2018 MBP and actually really loved how it felt. It felt completely different (though maybe the one in the store showed a case after prolonged use). I definitely enjoy typing on it, though I'd understand that it's not for everyone.
 

Oticon

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Oct 30, 2017
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I've owned 2 2016 MacBook pros and 1 2017 MacBook Pro. All worked fine, I haven't looked into this issue much but look into the failure rate, I'm sure someone has tried to estimate it.
 
SkimpyMcChicken

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Mar 27, 2018
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I've really fallen out of love with Apple's Mac hardware recently, but Windows 10 isn't my favorite either

So either way there's a little compromise.

But, I'm happy with my Surface Book 2, ultimately no regrets
 
entremet

entremet

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Never had an issue with mine, but I got AppleCare plus just in case.
 

Deleted member 21709

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There is no lottery, they are all prone to the issue.
However, they will gladly replace it if you experience any issues. But it will eventually happen again.

Necromanti said:
I have a 2018 MBP and didn't have any issues with the keyboard. Though recently, I've had like one or two instances of a letter being typed twice in a row, and I'm still not sure if that's due to me accidentally pressing it twice or it getting stuck. I haven't had success recreating it.
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That's the issue.

I miss the previous keyboard for the MBP. The touch bar and butterfly keys were such a bad direction.
 
PanickyFool

PanickyFool

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Oct 25, 2017
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I will never forgive Apple for introducing the chiclet style keyboard. They ruined all laptop keyboards.
 
Pixel Grotto

Pixel Grotto

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Oct 27, 2017
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I got one for work - my first Apple computer ever - and the left side of the spacebar has started sticking after 6 months.

Your mileage may vary, but generally my experience using a Macbook this half a year has been only okay at best.
 
Chan

Chan

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Oct 25, 2017
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Waiting for the 2019 models myself, going back to school online and just need something to write off, maybe I'll just get a 2019 iPad Pro.
 
Keyframe

Keyframe

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I code on my late 2016 mbp and never had an issue. As always with everything internet amplifies the actual rate of the problem as you don't see the people happily using their laptop post about it, you are only going to hear how "mine broke and it sucks!".

That said late 2016 mbp kb is trash because it is way too clicky and loud. So I wouldn't get a secondhand or refurb 2016 model. I actually love the kb on the 2018 model. It is quiet and a joy to type with.
 
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badboy78660

badboy78660

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Oct 27, 2017
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I appreciate the responses folks. I guess I'll probably just end up waiting some more :[.

The 2011 I have was "maxed out" by me last year (16GB RAM, and an ssd hdd), and while still performing admirably, is running real hot and loud these days, and on top of that I've been getting gpu hiccups indicative of those graphical failures this particular model had.
 
julia crawford

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Oct 27, 2017
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I have no idea how people deal with their new keyboards. Literally zero travel... I really can't deal with it.
 
Lord Error

Lord Error

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Oct 27, 2017
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I have had crazy number of issues with his generation of MBPs keyboard. So much so that they've replaced my 2016 model with 2017. Then the keyboard started falling apart on that one as well, so they replaced the whole case (because of course, everything is freaking crazy glued together inside, Apple style). Now I'm getting problems with that keyboard as well, but thankfully so far I've been able to remove individual key caps and clean the dust and grime inside with a wet tip of the toothpick. It's just terrible honesty. I think the 2018 mode is a little better in this respect. Oh and now I've learned about the flex cable disaster as wel. Just great.

One thing I want to warn everyone about:
DO NOT use the compressed air on MBP keyboards! It will blow the grime *under* the key membrane, where you can no longer clean it out from. I made this mistake on my 2017 keyboard once and it messed up several keys, which has made it necessary for Apple to replace whole case. Well, I guess if you want a new keyboard, case and battery, you may actually want to mess it up like that, as they are replacing it for free out of warranty...
 
Anthlenv

Anthlenv

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Oct 27, 2017
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I have a MBA 2018 and haven't noticed any issues but I don't take mine out and about. Its am couch machine haha.
 
Mars

Mars

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John Kowalski said:
I have no idea how people deal with their new keyboards. Literally zero travel... I really can't deal with it.
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This is was kills me every time I start typing. Also, after about 4 months, my esc and left shift key are already showing signs... I was thinking of picking up an actual keyboard but. I carry enough crap with me everyday.
 
Carolina Reaper

Carolina Reaper

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Oct 27, 2017
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I'm surprised TI92 hasn't arrived yet to tell you about all the evils Apple has committed.

The whole Butterfly design was born out of Apple's quest to make everything thinner and thinner. If that trend continues, I wouldn't be surprised if the next keyboard is glass with haptic feedback. The keyboard they had on the first few years of the MBP's with retina displays are unbeatable imo.
 
Lord Error

Lord Error

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Carolina Reaper said:
The keyboard they had on the first few years of the MBP's with retina displays are unbeatable imo.
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I really like the keys on their current magic keyboard. They have some click like the MBP keyboard does, but have more travel and softer bottom out, so they are more pleasant to type on. But they also don't feel rubbery like the other chiclet style keyboards.
 
Carolina Reaper

Carolina Reaper

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Lord Error said:
I really like the keys on their current magic keyboard. They have some click like the MBP keyboard does, but have more travel and softer bottom out, so they are more pleasant to type on. But they also don't feel rubbery like the other chiclet style keyboards.
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The keys are also bigger, which I like. I have one of those too. If the new MBPS and Air had a similar keyboard, I'd be very happy. Just wish it was backlit.
 
Chan

Chan

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Oct 25, 2017
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Also just a heads up, Costco has the MBP on sale for $250-330 off MSRP. If you use the Costco Citi credit card you'll get an additional 2 years of warranty for free as well.
 
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