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JJ Abrams' Editor: "It was The Last Jedi the one that undid everything in the previous film"
- Thread starter Fj0823
- Start date
We are talking about the same guy who cast Benedict Cumberbatch as Khan. Another asinine rehash of a legendary villain. JJ is simply a hack.
The top executive at Lucasfilm (his name is right there in the company logo) did have a plan for the trilogy. He said something about "Whills" and the "Force Microverse" and was talking about redeeming himself and proving everyone wrong about that much-maligned thing he once said about "Midiclorians", and then Disney pressed him out the door while saying "OK boomer."
And then we got Rise of Skywalker.
Uh no it doesn't. Literal babies are able to move things with the force in this franchise. Baby Yoda straight up choked somebody. A baby. The reason Luke struggled was because he didn't believe in himself or the force. Rey did. How did she use a mind trick? Because Kylo taught her. How did she learn to move things with the force? Because Kylo taught her. Everything she does is something explicitly shown to her first and she inadvertently follows Yoda's mantra. "Do or do not."
Which character in the narrative is curious about who Snoke is? For exposition to not feel like the author talking to you and revealing all of the background lore so that a wiki entry can neatly be filled out, characters themselves have to be invested in the information being given. Because those characters are surrogates for the audience. It's the difference between learning about the clone wars and Vader falling to darkness, something Luke inquired about, and, well, literally every single character backstory in Death Stranding.
Second, this trilogy was about Kylo. Kylo was more interesting than Snoke based on the premise of his character alone. RJ knew that. Hence we learn way more about Kylo over the course of two films then we ever did Vader, Yoda, the emperor, combined.
Lucas would have just shitposted the entire ST.The top executive at Lucasfilm (his name is right there in the company logo) did have a plan for the trilogy. He said something about "Whills" and the "Force Microverse" and was talking about redeeming himself and proving everyone wrong about that much-maligned thing he once said about "Midiclorians", and then Disney pressed him out the door while saying "OK boomer."
And then we got Rise of Skywalker.
And it would have been glorious.
The top executive at Lucasfilm (his name is right there in the company logo) did have a plan for the trilogy. He said something about "Whills" and the "Force Microverse" and was talking about redeeming himself and proving everyone wrong about that much-maligned thing he once said about "Midiclorians", and then Disney pressed him out the door while saying "OK boomer."
And then we got Rise of Skywalker.
Lucas would've fucked it up, let's not kid ourselves...
Counterpoint: TLJ is the best film in the entire series and TROS is the worst.
I really tried to continue to believe AOTC is the worst one. I did. It's not. TROS is the worst SW movie. JJ's editor doesn't know jack shit about anything.
I liked TLJ but at the end of the day, this trilogy should have been directed entirely by JJ or with JJ as a strong behind the scenes influence.
The idea of having these top name directors come in to a 'sandbox' in the middle of the trilogy was a mistake.
It's fascinating watching nerdom turn into the worst kind of gossip rag with recriminations and finger pointing, when I don't think the behidn the scenes drama between JJ and Rian is probably all that interesting and this could all have been solved if JJ was immediately given half a billion dollars to helm #8 and 9 after TFA.
As much as I hate to say it, LucasFilm dropped the ball.
The idea of having these top name directors come in to a 'sandbox' in the middle of the trilogy was a mistake.
It's fascinating watching nerdom turn into the worst kind of gossip rag with recriminations and finger pointing, when I don't think the behidn the scenes drama between JJ and Rian is probably all that interesting and this could all have been solved if JJ was immediately given half a billion dollars to helm #8 and 9 after TFA.
As much as I hate to say it, LucasFilm dropped the ball.
if he directed and wrote it himself yeah. If he was able to delegate those duties like he did for the OT and Clone Wars I would've been fine.
Though regardless I think a follow up to ROTJ is always doomed cause that ending was too perfect.
I absolutely love The Last Jedi, but with 1 out of 3, the ST we got is pretty lame.The top executive at Lucasfilm (his name is right there in the company logo) did have a plan for the trilogy. He said something about "Whills" and the "Force Microverse" and was talking about redeeming himself and proving everyone wrong about that much-maligned thing he once said about "Midiclorians", and then Disney pressed him out the door while saying "OK boomer."
And then we got Rise of Skywalker.
I doubt Lucas would have been able to make a single good movie, but letting him go totally crazy on the Whills shit might have made for some really crazy sci-fi flicks. Hell, keep Lucas away from writing the dialogue, and it could have been halfway decent.
Yes, but it would have been planned garbage. It would've had some sense of consistency.
And hey, theoretically speaking, with talented directors and screenwriters providing a filter for George's creative madness, it might have actually been good, and it might have actually redeemed the Prequels.
At least a general overall idea that every director had to follow. This make it up Completely as you go is why I dislike the latest trilogy
I finally saw the shitfest that was Rise of Skywalker recently when it became available to rent. I refused to watch it in the theater or buy it on demand. What a steaming pile of garbage it was. I hated TLJ but it was Citizen Kane compared to Rise of Skywalker. When factoring in the ip, budget, cast of what used to be likeable characters, it is one of the worst failures I have ever seen.
It was boring muddled and frankly annoying to watch. It was dreadful and the worst movie I have seen in a really long time. I know this isn't a review thread but I never weighed in and I just recently saw it.
It was boring muddled and frankly annoying to watch. It was dreadful and the worst movie I have seen in a really long time. I know this isn't a review thread but I never weighed in and I just recently saw it.
Would it though? The PT was the most "planned out" trilogy out of the three and managed to be the most incoherent.
The top executive at Lucasfilm (his name is right there in the company logo) did have a plan for the trilogy. He said something about "Whills" and the "Force Microverse" and was talking about redeeming himself and proving everyone wrong about that much-maligned thing he once said about "Midiclorians", and then Disney pressed him out the door while saying "OK boomer."
And then we got Rise of Skywalker.
Nobody cares about George Lucas. LucasFilm after it was purchased by Disney, announced a new trilogy. They didn't plan the trilogy at all! The result was three movies that are in conflict with each other!
The only way TLJ undoes stuff in TFA is if you wanted a film as woefully derivative as TROS was. TLJ not answering the fan theories crafted over two years with the "right" answers always seems to be the "flaw" at the end of the day. RJ got SW because SW has always been at it's best when it's not predictable. No one expected Empire Strikes Back's plotline and reveals. No one expected TLJ. The best part of ROTJ is the part that they didn't advertise, i.e., the part where Luke redeems Vader compared to us knowing about bikini Leia and rescuing Han. And arguably the best bit of TROS is the force dyad as everyone expected that the door would be closed, now that Kylo and Rey could literally fight across time and space.
I used to be in the 'LFL screwed up by not planning ahead' camp, but having recently rewatched TFA and TLJ... honestly, a great Episode IX was still very much possible. There's a ton of promising unresolved stuff left to riff on, and the characters are still interesting and fun. I also don't think TLJ feels all that inconsistent with TFA, except maybe in the vague sense that it rightly abandons a few threads that were going nowhere. But it creates plenty of new ones, chief among them Kylo's rise as supreme leader and the 'democratization' of the Force.
Of course, JJ couldn't let go of his preconceived notions and therefore may well have been the worst possible choice for IX (even if the Trevorrow draft isn't great either).
Of course, JJ couldn't let go of his preconceived notions and therefore may well have been the worst possible choice for IX (even if the Trevorrow draft isn't great either).
I did hate The Last Jedi for that very reason.
Butwater under the bridge and now it's hands down the best movie of the three.
Butwater under the bridge and now it's hands down the best movie of the three.
Yep. And I like Johnson's other works. He isn't completely to blame. He was in over his head. He's better with low budget character pieces. Sw was a bit too much for him
This, so much this.
Regarding the bolded: I kept on expecting this to become the theme of the new trilogy, and TLJ was even teeing it up, but it just never happened. Like, the title of the first installment even sets up that expectation! "The Force Awakens" makes it sound like something new is happening in the Force. The title was not The Force Is Awakening In This One Specific Person Who Is Secretly Related To Known Force-User Palpatine.
Exactly. I remember thinking that after seeing TLJ: "Oh that's what The Force Awakens must mean! That's kind of genius!" Very disappointing how that turned out, perhaps my single biggest gripe with TROS.
I always said TLJ was the ME3 of the star wars movies. It's so polarising that whatever discussion around it's strength and weaknesses will devolve into either militant bashing or verhmently worshipping it.
Can we just agree that the entire trilogy was a waste of time and move on?
Can we just agree that the entire trilogy was a waste of time and move on?
Totally agree. TLJ was garbage. Rise of Skywalker wasn't any better but TLJ threw all of Force Awakens' setups and mysteries in the trash.
who vehemently worships ME3? That game is far more weighted to everyone bashing it.
but yes as a whole I don't like the trilogy and don't care to see anything from it ever again. If they tried to do something set atfer TROS I know that the second I hear the words Rey Skywalker again I'm gonna quit.
Ummm even you must be aware how awful this argument is, baby yoda is estimated to be decades old within the show. If your going use that argument at least use something other than that.
Dammit, such a shame that he didn't get a chance to reveal that the Snoke Monster was actually 17th century philosopher John Locke. Rian, look what blessed storytelling bounties you have taken from us, you befowled hellion
Okay, so maybe "undoing" is a wrong way to put it, but I feel like TLJ has very contrarian and pretentious attitude towards it's predecessor that kinda rubs me in the wrong way. In a way it feels like a teenager calling his younger brother a twerp for watching Power Rangers or something.
"Enough of this kiddy shit, It's time to put big boy pants and talk about Military Industrial Complex, animal abuse, classism and dozen other things!" says the movie, while being completely disinterested in any mythological aspects of the franchise, and treating setups from TFA as something it has to deal with out of obligation. And I know that lots of people like it particulary because of that atitude, but for me TLJ feels kinda ashamed about being about space wizards with laser swords, and in particular ashamed about being a sequel to TFA.
I think the problem is that JJ's take on Star Wars is incredibly childish. It's basically just JJ going "this is the sequel I wanted to see when I was 12" despite the fact that he's a grown man.
OP
OP
What? TLJ had the most visually and narritvely interesting scenes regarding the force in live action. It was full of mistycism.
The problem is that ultimately all those "Mystery Boxes" where just there to say "well isn't this mysterious"
Anakin's Skywalker? What answer makes any sense? Was Maz Kanata just hanging out at Cloud City and it bonked her on the head? The force somehow moved the lightsaber to Maz Kanata?
Snoke? A dramatic reveal only works if the reveal means something to the audience. Revealing that Snoke was some Sith being from the unknown regions means nothing, and only a few people have seen the spinoff animated series like Clone Wars and Rebels.
Luke's disappearance? Rian Johnson answered this in a way that makes sense. Simply having Luke be Yoda makes no sense for the character, Having Rey be Luke's daughter is lazy and once again brings up why Luke would have left his daughter behind.
When you create a mystery box the creator has to know what's in the box or chances are people are going to be disappointed by what the answer eventually becomes.
Anakin's Skywalker? What answer makes any sense? Was Maz Kanata just hanging out at Cloud City and it bonked her on the head? The force somehow moved the lightsaber to Maz Kanata?
Snoke? A dramatic reveal only works if the reveal means something to the audience. Revealing that Snoke was some Sith being from the unknown regions means nothing, and only a few people have seen the spinoff animated series like Clone Wars and Rebels.
Luke's disappearance? Rian Johnson answered this in a way that makes sense. Simply having Luke be Yoda makes no sense for the character, Having Rey be Luke's daughter is lazy and once again brings up why Luke would have left his daughter behind.
When you create a mystery box the creator has to know what's in the box or chances are people are going to be disappointed by what the answer eventually becomes.