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Oct 29, 2017
909
I can agree with that. But can we agree that a term like communism still carries weight of the past and is not simply a political ideal? People here seem to think its fine to do that with fascism but not communism, and that has me perplexed.
You didn't seem to get stuck on the other mention in the video, about Nazis being socialists, and why is that? According to what you're saying, that too wouldn't be simply a political ideal, right? But you didn't get stuck on it because you knew better. It's the same case with you getting stuck on communism. You're confusing it with totalitarianism. You probably have a preconception causing you to be shocked by her honesty when you shouldn't really be.
 

Deleted member 15440

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,191
I can agree with that. But can we agree that a term like communism still carries weight of the past and is not simply a political ideal? People here seem to think its fine to do that with fascism but not communism, and that has me perplexed.
because fascism is inherently genocidal and authoritarian while communism isn't?

e. if she said she were stalinist then you might have a point
 

-shadow-

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,110
I mean... You can be a supporter of the Republican party and not support Nazis.

But arresting over literal spilled milk? That seems really excessive. Curious how the case will be handled.
 

BAN PUNCHER

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
4,945
Lock her up. For wasting perfectly good choclety milk.
548.png
 
Oct 26, 2017
10,499
UK

Have you ever had something spilled on you and called the cops? I'm just asking because I've been subject to both verbal and physical assault that I'd consider to be more dangerous than this utterly unprovoked and have never pressed charges because I'm an adult who knows how to diffuse situation or ignore them because they're not worth the effort.
 

Alandrus Sun

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
390
She's living my dream. People promoting these ideas really should get an ear full every once in a while. Probably should've kept the milk tho. It's still a little warm down here
 

Vilix

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,055
Texas
Wait, she was arrested for spilling milk on someone? Well, I guess the taxpayers of that county got their money's worth. smh
 

Heshinsi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,094
I don't understand the responses in this thread.

Why are people condoning the actions of throwing liquid on someone? And what makes these Republican students Nazi pigs, did they say something that I missed in the video?

While I believe what she did was wrong, I wouldn't have pressed charges on her. People from both sides love to bring up videos like this to bring about more division and point fingers, which is sad.

If you lay with dogs, you get up with fleas. The Republican Party is at minimum a hate group at this point. There's no way around that. From their efforts to disenfranchise minorities and women, to how they are a big tent for various right wing hate and white supremacy groups.

On a side note, just how stupid do you have to be to state that the Nazis were socialists with a straight face? Fucking idiots.
 

Strike

Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,378
It's just milk. I highly doubt any of those smug assholes were actually traumatized by the event. Probably not the best thing to do in that situation, but I don't blame her. I hope the charges don't stick.
 

sphagnum

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,058
I can agree with that. But can we agree that a term like communism still carries weight of the past and is not simply a political ideal? People here seem to think its fine to do that with fascism but not communism, and that has me perplexed.

The problem here is that your perception of communism is being colored by the specific forms taken by states proclaiming adherence to it as a doctrine in the 20th century. The USSR, PRC, etc. developed as they did for specific historical reasons very much in opposition to the basic foundational elements of Marxist theory. For example, Marx believed that socialism would emerge in the most advanced western capitalist states first, because it was precisely there that the class struggle between the proletariat and the bourgeoisie would be the most heightened. The very struggle between the classes is what would solidify the proletariat as an organized bloc fighting for its own interests. However, since the capitalist countries a.) gave in to various reforms on behalf of unions and b.) developed overall higher living standards due to super-exploitation of third world colonies, this stunted revolutionary fervor.

This did not happen in the less advanced countries. The Bolsheviks and other socialists successfully obtained the allegiance of the proletariat (though much smaller than in the western European countries) in the Russian Empire, but the civil war obliterated the entire class and infrastructure. Russia started off from a zero point, with a largely backwards peasant population, and no longer in any way resembled the kind of society that could achieve socialism, because socialism develops as a result of capitalism. Convinced that the capitalist powers would try to intervene (again) in the USSR, the Bolsheviks - who had already clamped down on power due to the revolution and war - instituted the NEP to try to rebuild society via state capitalism before a transition to socialism proper could begin. Once Lenin died, Trotsky, Stalin, and Bukharin all led various factions to figure out how to proceed and due to various circumstances (obviously often bad ones) Stalin won and proceeded to reshape the USSR.

Every other socialist state followed that model because the USSR was the predominant socialist world power, despite the fact that it had veered way off course from the actual underpinning tenets of socialism. Most of these states were underdeveloped due to colonialism and were seeking a path to quick development (think of the PRC for example, whose class war does not follow traditional Marxist proletariat-bourgeoisie-conflict theory at all but was basically a huge peasant uprising). In other words, while Marx proposed that socialism emerges because of class conflict between worker and owner, in the 20th century what we saw was political parties inserting themselves in the role of the proletariat in its absence.

And even then not one of these nations or parties claimed to have achieved communism.

To put it shortly, Communism is not communism, and the history of the 20th century Communist movement is littered with failures because the material conditions were not yet at a point where socialism could happen.

Meanwhile, fascism was and is literally always what it claimed to be.
 
OP
OP
A Syrian Communist
Oct 25, 2017
4,466
The problem here is that your perception of communism is being colored by the specific forms taken by states proclaiming adherence to it as a doctrine in the 20th century. The USSR, PRC, etc. developed as they did for specific historical reasons very much in opposition to the basic foundational elements of Marxist theory. For example, Marx believed that socialism would emerge in the most advanced western capitalist states first, because it was precisely there that the class struggle between the proletariat and the bourgeoisie would be the most heightened. The very struggle between the classes is what would solidify the proletariat as an organized bloc fighting for its own interests. However, since the capitalist countries a.) gave in to various reforms on behalf of unions and b.) developed overall higher living standards due to super-exploitation of third world colonies, this stunted revolutionary fervor.

This did not happen in the less advanced countries. The Bolsheviks and other socialists successfully obtained the allegiance of the proletariat (though much smaller than in the western European countries) in the Russian Empire, but the civil war obliterated the entire class and infrastructure. Russia started off from a zero point, with a largely backwards peasant population, and no longer in any way resembled the kind of society that could achieve socialism, because socialism develops as a result of capitalism. Convinced that the capitalist powers would try to intervene (again) in the USSR, the Bolsheviks - who had already clamped down on power due to the revolution and war - instituted the NEP to try to rebuild society via state capitalism before a transition to socialism proper could begin. Once Lenin died, Trotsky, Stalin, and Bukharin all led various factions to figure out how to proceed and due to various circumstances (obviously often bad ones) Stalin won and proceeded to reshape the USSR.

Every other socialist state followed that model because the USSR was the predominant socialist world power, despite the fact that it had veered way off course from the actual underpinning tenets of socialism. Most of these states were underdeveloped due to colonialism and were seeking a path to quick development (think of the PRC for example, whose class war does not follow traditional Marxist proletariat-bourgeoisie-conflict theory at all but was basically a huge peasant uprising). In other words, while Marx proposed that socialism emerges because of class conflict between worker and owner, in the 20th century what we saw was political parties inserting themselves in the role of the proletariat in its absence.

And even then not one of these nations or parties claimed to have achieved communism.

To put it shortly, Communism is not communism, and the history of the 20th century Communist movement is littered with failures because the material conditions were not yet at a point where socialism could happen.

Meanwhile, fascism was and is literally always what it claimed to be.
This is a great post. Thanks
 

Inuhanyou

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,214
New Jersey
I aint gonna cry for right wing idiots getting milk spilt on them. But if you gonna do it, be best prepared for the legal fees later, that comes with the territory.
 

Zem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,972
United Kingdom
The young republicans and Tories over here really are little cunts. You have to be a real shit to grow up nowadays and still think those policies and views from the right are what you want to endorse, even worse in the US right now. Everyone of them deserves a slap.
 
Oct 28, 2017
159

The "values" of some political parties require actual counteraction ("violence") because what they value is global, generational immiseration and destruction. I'd rather have milk thrown my way every day than read that kind of freedom of speech hogwash even once more. Folding the embracement of the ravagers of millions upon millions into the concept of diversity is grotesque.
 

Gobias-Ind

Member
Nov 22, 2017
4,026
She lives in the state where George Zimmerman got off after stalking a black teenager through a neighborhood at night and murdering him and Republicans think she should be punished for milk lmao snowflakes

As a Jewish woman in this climate she's constantly within her rights to Stand Her Ground and the chud idiot Desantis supporter should be thankful they got off with a slight bit of sticky wetness.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
57,060
I don't understand the responses in this thread.

Why are people condoning the actions of throwing liquid on someone? And what makes these Republican students Nazi pigs, did they say something that I missed in the video?

While I believe what she did was wrong, I wouldn't have pressed charges on her. People from both sides love to bring up videos like this to bring about more division and point fingers, which is sad.

Every single person supporting Trump and the current admin is complicit in the terrible things that are happening.

Throwing chocolate milk Vs the harm this person does with their support?
 

Poj

Banned
Nov 4, 2017
427
User Banned (permanent): History of fear-mongering surrounding race and gender; history of advocating violence

Subpar Scrub

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,576
But arresting over literal spilled milk? That seems really excessive. Curious how the case will be handled.

Wasn't spilled, was poured over them. I remember seeing a video a while ago where a lady threw tea or something over a cyclist and a cop who saw it said it was a battery, so I guess it's valid?

In any case, fuck those "conservative" shits. They deserve to be mocked and humiliated, but unfortunately if you're going to physically act against them in a setting like this, gotta be ready for the repercussions.

Without context, it's virtually impossible to tell the difference between this post and a far right bullshit post.

I know, it's unsettling as fuck. One would wonder how someone who frequents Era could ever rationalise it as a war based on skin colour rather than ideology, politics and values, yet here we are.

If I were American I'd be against republicans 100%, but I guess I'd also be against non-whites based on that post? Weird, probably not worth paying it any further mind.