Jason Schreier: Stadia looks to be a "monumental flop", pre-orders are below expectations

[Hoo-doo]

How about we let BlueManifest experience the disappointment firsthand before engaging in endless arguments.

Once Cyberpunk launches on Stadia and he realize he paid 60$ for a chunky, unreliable and basically low-rent version of the game with input lag, he might realize it really wasn't worth all these posts.

Stadia gamers still need a top notch internet connection, a controller and a chromecast if they want to play on a TV. So it doesn't make sense from a monetary standpoint to me either.

Edit: this disappointment extends to people thinking of making XCloud or PSNow their primary way to play games. It's not going to be viable for the enthusiast crowd anytime soon.

 

[Mushlikeahusky]

10 dollar subs per month for 4k will not end up being cheaper than next gen consoles. Its also unclear if they will actually be able to get to 4k, unclear if they can get to 60fps, in addition to input lag, reliance on internet, and not owning the games you purchase.

I just dont see how thats competitive, or who that market is aimed at. Especially with these reviews right now.

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I said theoretically

 

[criteriondog]

So your paying to stream, and with stadia your paying to stream, just with a different selection of games

so we agree, dont see what the problem is

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On PSNow you pay monthly to stream or download games and only pay for the subscription to access the games.
Right now on Stadia, you're paying for the subscription to stream games and you have to pay $20-$60 per game. The difference is PSNow let's you only pay for the subscription and lets you select a large library of games to stream or rent, with no additional cost. Stadia does not.

 

[jviggy43]

So your paying to stream, and with stadia your paying to stream, just with a different selection of games

so we agree, dont see what the problem is

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You are unbelievable. You just ignored the entire difference between the two to focus on the one thing they have in common while seemingly forgetting where the original argument is coming from.

You do not get a selection of games to play on stadia included in the subscription. You have to pay full price for the ability to stream these games.

PS now- you pay ten dollars a month to have access to streaming over 800 games.

Knock it off. You know what youre doing. Youre not convincing anybody. And if you want to be taken serious on this forum ever again you'll reflect on this behavior and correct it. This is embarrassing.

 

[deathsaber]

This is a good point and potentially why the free tier won't be Google's savior here.
People signing up for Stadia for free will have no real investment into the platform.

Think about it, when you've spent $400-$500 on a console you've made a significant investment into that platform and you are going to be actively looking to justify that investment buy looking for games to play.

But making a free account on a platform requires no investment on the end user's part and those people are not going to be as motivated to buy games. They aren't going to be thinking that they have to justify making a free account. It's more in Google's interest to get Pro Subscribers. Pro Subscribers will have an active investment in the platform and will more actively want to justify that investment than free users.

I think ultimately the number of free users will be irrelevant and the number of Pro Subscribers will be more telling. Pro subscribers are more likely to buy games than free users.

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I basically disagree here, because I think Stadia's primary potential customer here IS the more casual consumer that isn't too concerned about the high tech end of things. They don't want to be bothered with buying a console, but maybe they wouldn't mind ala carte picking up a big game here and there without needing to buy a console, or a Live/PSN membership.

Those who are going to be really invested in getting a lot of games..they own Playstations/Switches/and Xboxes because it will give the best performance, the most fidelity, not to mention the largest game library, and have no need to want to bother with streaming games- and even if they did want to stream, they have low cost options available to them on those that offers access to a whole library of stuff to play.

 

[Lady Gaia]

You don't need to subscribe to anything to watch purchased iTunes or Amazon video content in the highest quality available. If you buy it, you can then watch it without a subscription. There are also subscription services available from the same companies that provide access to a different catalog of content you don't need to buy, but that's a completely different business from the purchasable content.

 

[BlueManifest]

You are unbelievable. You just ignored the entire difference between the two to focus on the one thing they have in common while seemingly forgetting where the original argument is coming from.

You do not get a selection of games to play on stadia included in the subscription. You have to pay full price for the ability to stream these games.

PS now- you pay ten dollars a month to have access to streaming over 800 games.

Knock it off. You know what youre doing. Youre not convincing anybody. And if you want to be taken serious on this forum ever again you'll reflect on this behavior and correct it. This is embarrassing.

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???? I'm paying to stream games on stadia through games that are in included with its pro sub or I'm paying to stream by buying them individual

PSnow I'm paying to stream games from its sub with what games are included with its sub

I'm paying to stream games on both services

 

[Meatwad]

I basically disagree here, because I think Stadia's primary potential customer here IS the more casual consumer that isn't too concerned about the high tech end of things. They don't want to be bothered with buying a console, but maybe they wouldn't mind ala carte picking up a big game here and there without needing to buy a console, or a Live/PSN membership.

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I don't think this hypothetical consumer exists in a capcity needed to make Stadia a success

 

[Precious Tritium]

Judging by what's happened to YouTube I fully expect the free version of Stadia to come with unskippable advertising.

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They're still charging full price for games they would never get away with that.

You can steam movies / tv shows / buy audio / digital books for a lot less than $60 from Google and none of those have ads.

 

[Alienous]

I don't think this hypothetical consumer exists in a capcity needed to make Stadia a success

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I'm not so sure. A $400 console has an audience, a $300 has a larger audience. Stadia is positioning itself to be a $0 console - I think there's a larger audience still, limited by the network requirements.

So I think the audience is there, especially going into next-gen.

 

[BlueManifest]

On PSNow you pay monthly to stream or download games and only pay for the subscription to access the games.
Right now on Stadia, you're paying for the subscription to stream games and you have to pay $20-$60 per game. The difference is PSNow let's you only pay for the subscription and lets you select a large library of games to stream or rent, with no additional cost. Stadia does not.

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Yea and I said next year you won't need the sub to buy games

 

[criteriondog]

Yea and I said next year you won't need the sub to buy games

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We all know that. But why would anyone want to pay $60 to stream a game? I assure you, 90% of the market who's watching watching Cyberpunk/RDR 2 ads already own a console they're going to get it for. The Stadia niche of "wow I really want to play these amazing new games, but I don't want to invest in a gaming console or PC" is very small. Also, Stadia base will be 1080p when next gen consoles are going to be 4K standard.

 

[Lothars]

I'm not so sure. A $400 console has an audience, a $300 has a larger audience. Stadia is positioning itself to be a $0 console - I think there's a larger audience still, limited by the network requirements.

So I think the audience is there, especially going into next-gen.

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The audience is very small especially now and will still be tiny compared to consoles because there's very few if any incentive to use stadia.

 

[GMT Master]

My stadia controller is waiting for me at home, buy I tried destiny 2 in the browser with a keyboard and mouse and I was impressed by how well it worked. Game loaded up immediately, controls felt fine. Maybe not perfect, but pretty damn good for some remote server.

Image quality was my big issue though. Had a perfect connection and even on a 32 inch 4k monitor, it looked slightly blurry and the image was dark. They may claim it's 4k, but it looks nothing like the game running in native 4k on your own machine.

With that said, this is the future. This version of game streaming and this specific service might fail, but a few generations from now, this will be the standard. Click a button from anywhere and the game is ready to go.

I don't think I would pay for what they are currently offering (other than the founder's edition) and I am not planning on streaming games any time soon, but overall I'm impressed by how well it performs.

 

[BIG J]

I'm not so sure. A $400 console has an audience, a $300 has a larger audience. Stadia is positioning itself to be a $0 console - I think there's a larger audience still, limited by the network requirements.

So I think the audience is there, especially going into next-gen.

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pricing something at 0$ also sets a low bar. take a $50 phone and a $500 phone. which one is someone more willing to buy. the person who buys the cheap phone, are they likely to spend more on it?

 

[BlueManifest]

We all know that. But why would anyone want to pay $60 to stream a game? I assure you, 90% of the market who's watching watching Cyberpunk/RDR 2 ads already own a console they're going to get it for. The Stadia niche of "wow I really want to play these amazing new games, but I don't want to invest in a gaming console or PC" is very small. Also, Stadia base will be 1080p when next gen consoles are going to be 4K standard.

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That wasn't point i was just saying you didn't need the sub that's all nothing else, and the pro sub isn't 4k anyway so your really only getting free game's with it anyway lol

a lot of people are still 1080p btw too going by steam stats

 

[criteriondog]

That wasn't point i was just saying you didn't need the sub that's all nothing else, and the pro sub isn't 4k anyway so your really only getting free game's with it anyway lol

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I'm getting two free game with a Stadia subscription versus getting hundreds with a PSNow subscription along with the option to download them.

 

[cmagus]

I won't lie I'm interested in the idea of Stadia the problem is the game selection is pretty small and too focused on big budget games, certainly not geared towards a casual market. I kind of wish they invested in more indie titles, titles that don't need to be 4k and can offer smaller, simpler experiences that anyone can play. I would jump all over Stadia if I could play smaller indie titles on the couch/co-op with friends and family. There is almost nothing you could sit down with a younger family member or someone who doesn't play games and have them be able to pick up the game fast and get some enjoyment out of it which is a mistake.

The other issue is not having basic out the gate and further more no demo or anything. Personally I'm not willing to spend money until I can try how well this service is gonna work. I know you can do a test on their site but my connection has it's ups and downs so without actually trying anything their test means very little. I recently participatd in a small closed Alpha for a competitors online streaming service and it ran surprisingly well despite how my connection was reading.

 

[Pryme]

I'm not so sure. A $400 console has an audience, a $300 has a larger audience. Stadia is positioning itself to be a $0 console - I think there's a larger audience still, limited by the network requirements.

So I think the audience is there, especially going into next-gen.

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$0 is misleading, since At the very least, you'd need $90 in controller and chromecast ultra hardware To stream games on your TV.

 

[BlueManifest]

I'm getting two free game with a Stadia subscription versus getting hundreds with a PSNow subscription along with the option to download them.

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Yea it's been out 5 years I hope it has more games

it also doesn't have the same game's I couldn't play destiny 2 or red dead on PSnow for example

 

[criteriondog]

Yea it's been out 5 years I hope it has more games

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Yeah, and in five years Stadia won't hand over those games all at once to new subscribers. They will just get one or two free games per month, like + or gold. The difference here is that PSNow is offering the whole library at no additional cost, to players when they subscribe. Stadia Pro users will still have to pay to stream the games, and get one or two free games a month.

Huge difference.

Edit: ahh, I see you edited your post. Still going back at the "but I can play RDR for cheap" defense? Considering the launch performance and optimization of Stadia's games, I'd prefer to pay $60 on a console version, versus one that's streamed and running at lower graphical settings.

 

[xinoart]

Yea it's been out 5 years I hope it has more games

it also doesn't have the same game's I couldn't play destiny 2 or red dead on PSnow for example

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You should probably give up. You're making yourself look bad. You're moving goalposts, using bad faith arguments and wholly ignoring posts that you can't use semantics to argue with. You're looking and sounding crazy at this point. Your veil is thinly disguised.

 

[xxracerxx]

it also doesn't have the same game's I couldn't play destiny 2 or red dead on PSnow for example

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https://www.rockstargames.com/newsw...ndead-Nightmare-Coming-December-6th-to-PS-Now

and Destiny 2 is F2P now (without a PS+ subscription).

 

[BlueManifest]

Yeah, and in five years Stadia won't hand over those games all at once to new subscribers. They will just get one or two free games per month, like + or gold. The difference here is that PSNow is offering the whole library at no additional cost, to players when they subscribe. Stadia Pro users will still have to pay to stream the games, and get one or two free games a month.

Huge difference.

Edit: ahh, I see you edited your post. Still going back at the "but I can play RDR for cheap" defense? Considering the launch performance and optimization of Stadia's games, I'd prefer to pay $60 on a console version, versus one that's streamed and running at lower graphical settings.

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We don't know what they are going to offer in 5 years the pro sub could become like PSnow once they have 100-200 games, and the only games you pay full price for will be new day 1 releases

 

[xinoart]

https://www.rockstargames.com/newsw...ndead-Nightmare-Coming-December-6th-to-PS-Now

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You know he meant RDR2!! /s

Edit: Oh shit! lol

 

[BIG J]

Yea it's been out 5 years I hope it has more games

it also doesn't have the same game's I couldn't play destiny 2 or red dead on PSnow for example

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other than destiny 2 and rdr, what recently released game can i play on stadia. and dont bring psnow or xcloud into it

 

[BlueManifest]

https://www.rockstargames.com/newsw...ndead-Nightmare-Coming-December-6th-to-PS-Now

and Destiny 2 is F2P now (without a PS+ subscription).

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You got me, i obviously meant red dead 2 since i was comparing it to stadia

 

[BlueManifest]

other than destiny 2 and rdr, what recently released game can i play on stadia. and dont bring psnow or xcloud into it

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Borderlands 3 will be out soon it came out recently, and cyberpunk and avengers and doom eternal are coming to it

 

[criteriondog]

We don't know what they are going to offer in 5 years the pro sub could become like PSnow once they have 100-200 games, and the only games you pay full price for will be new day 1 releases

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Why would anyone want to invest into a service with that kind of a risk? Google has already clarified they're not doing a "Netflix like gaming subscription", so until they clarify and change things, they won't.

 

[OuterHeaven]

shocked pikachu.mp4

 

[BlueManifest]

Why would anyone want to invest into a service with that kind of a risk? Google has already clarified they're not doing a "Netflix like gaming subscription", so until they clarify and change things, they won't.

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Yea not right now we don't know in 5 years though

 

[HebrewHammer]

Phil Harrison strikes again.

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This.

Give me his salary - I'll launch some hardware for you.

 

[defaltoption]

Yea not right now we don't know in 5 years though

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The biggest question is will it be around in 5 years because of google, regardless of how exaggerated people make it to be there's no denying that they do shut down services fast and often. That's why so many think the launch should've been pushed, it's very important for google.

 

[Kanhir]

Once Cyberpunk launches on Stadia and he realize he paid 60$ for a chunky, unreliable and basically low-rent version of the game with input lag, he might realize it really wasn't worth all these posts.

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This is so far not my Stadia experience. I can only assume you're talking from experience, so is yours clunky and unreliable with input lag?

 

[BlueManifest]

The biggest question is will it be around in 5 years because of google, regardless of how exaggerated people make it to be there's no denying that they do shut down services fast and often. That's why so many think the launch should've been pushed, it's very important for google.

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Ok if the service isnt shutdown we don't know what it's going to offer in 5 years

 

[SlipperyMoose]

Not unexpected but they have time to adjust things. Not sold only the service yet but they are baked by a company with a lot of money.

 

[defaltoption]

Ok if the service isnt shutdown we don't know what it's going to offer in 5 years

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True enough, the potential of stadia is ginormous long term, it's just not in a vacuum though, xcloud has the same if not greater trajectory chance for success. They already know the industry, have deals in place, and the same dollar for dollar punching power. I think the two biggest unknowns in the streaming space are Nvidia and Playstation. It's clear Sony is working on something with partners like a Microsoft but it's also clear they want to own the console market forever. Nvidia has the compute power but seems to have made no significant splash yet even after being one of the longest players in the game.

 

[BlueManifest]

True enough, the potential of stadia is ginormous long term, it's just not in a vacuum though, xcloud has the same if not greater trajectory chance for success. They already know the industry, have deals in place, and the same dollar for dollar punching power. I think the two biggest unknowns in the streaming space are Nvidia and Playstation. It's clear Sony is working on something with partners like a Microsoft but it's also clear they want to own the console market forever. Nvidia has the compute power but seems to have made no significant splash yet even after being one of the longest players in the game.

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None of the streaming services are making a splash yet even ones with the Netflix model that people supposedly want

PSnow only has 1 million subs in 5 years and it is the Netflix model

 

[deathsaber]

I don't think this hypothetical consumer exists in a capcity needed to make Stadia a success

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I don't either, but we will see how this plays out. I think in Googles case, they got enough funds for this to exist as a sort of small side business and it doesn't have to take over the gaming world. This isn't going to become 4th major platform in gaming (5th if you include pc)..

This service is for the dudebro with a pc/Chromebook/phone/tablet that isn't gaming ready, but maybe they want to pick up NBA 2k or something (assuming something like that becomes available on Stadia).

 

[rustymonk]

The fact that a subscription doesn't get you games is wild. Two things could really kickstart Stadia.

- They subscription needs access to games.
- And they need a free month to get people to try and get over their scepticism.

 

[Dunlop]

This is so far not my Stadia experience. I can only assume you're talking from experience, so is yours clunky and unreliable with input lag?

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Same, honestly I play d2 mostly on a PsSlim with wifi as I gave my son the PsPro and the experience on Stadia is so much better in every regard it is mind boggling. I am going to "force" my son to play on Stadia tonight to get his opinion on it vs PsPro.

The ability to also play in a browser is just an amazing bonus

 

[BlueManifest]

Same, honestly I play d2 mostly on a PsSlim with wifi as I gave my son the PsPro and the experience on Stadia is so much better in every regard it is mind boggling. I am going to "force" my son to play on Stadia tonight to get his opinion on it vs PsPro.

The ability to also play in a browser is just an amazing bonus

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Not having to download anything is nice too isn't it

 

[Dunlop]

Not having to download anything is nice too isn't it

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Never cared about downloading, I have fast internet and it is generally a one time thing. But the load time difference is insane

 

[spad3]

Same, honestly I play d2 mostly on a PsSlim with wifi as I gave my son the PsPro and the experience on Stadia is so much better in every regard it is mind boggling. I am going to "force" my son to play on Stadia tonight to get his opinion on it vs PsPro.

The ability to also play in a browser is just an amazing bonus

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Honestly, back when it was Project Stream, I was blown away that I could play a near console-quality game off of my internet browser without the need of special dedicated hardware. Stadia definitely is a step in the right direction, but there are tons of little things here and there that still need to be worked on.

 

[Dunlop]

Honestly, back when it was Project Stream, I was blown away that I could play a near console-quality game off of my internet browser without the need of special dedicated hardware. Stadia definitely is a step in the right direction, but there are tons of little things here and there that still need to be worked on.

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That was me last night, I expected it to be a lesser experience after I received the Chromecast on my 4K 65" HDR set and it was better. Letting my son play tonight as my judgement is lower as I am so used to the PsSlim on wifi (he is mistrusting me as I do not normally let him play on a school night.....).

 

[carlosrox]

So where's the Stadia PR discussing sales numbers, stats, etc?

They've gotta have something to spin!

 

[LumberPanda]

We all know that. But why would anyone want to pay $60 to stream a game? I assure you, 90% of the market who's watching watching Cyberpunk/RDR 2 ads already own a console they're going to get it for. The Stadia niche of "wow I really want to play these amazing new games, but I don't want to invest in a gaming console or PC" is very small. Also, Stadia base will be 1080p when next gen consoles are going to be 4K standard.

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For the exact same reason why someone might want to pay $60 for 1's and 0's on a harddrive to play a game. I don't think you really understand the reach those games have outside of hardcore gaming circles. Especially Rockstar's games. Even my dad knows about and wants to play RDR2 and GTAV - just not at the asking price of hundreds of dollars. He'll be fine with the "pitiful" 1080p stream.

Like imagine if we said this about any other form of media. Listening to music at home was at one time not that affordable. Imagine if someone said "y'know, nobody is going to listen to Cassette tapes, everyone interested in music already listens to open-reel which sounds better." In fact, a lot of people did say that, and they were wrong and their friends probably had a good laugh at them over some beers. Nowadays, people don't even buy dedicated music hardware unless they're an enthusiast.

 

[Godzilla's Left Toe]

How's Greg Miller Doing lol

 

[Isamu]

How's Greg Miller Doing lol

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Whats that about?

 

[Mizeris Lutz Ether Lanai]

I basically disagree here, because I think Stadia's primary potential customer here IS the more casual consumer that isn't too concerned about the high tech end of things.

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But...isn't the entire argument for its existence that it's high end PC gaming?

People who don't care about tech will keep playing mobile games or F2P stuff on their laptop.