What is there to gloss over? She "admitted" to accidentally running over cats and being upset about it.I love how this thread has turned into a debate about whether or not the cats should be kept inside... we're all just glossing over the fact that she admitted to running them over?
I'm not saying you're anti-science for letting your cats outside. I'm saying dismissing scientific takes outright as "appeals to authority" is an anti-scientific stance to take. Saying that people aren't citing scientists because they are citing articles derived from scientific findings is also an anti-science handwave. When you try to explain yourself you just reiterate that. We can drop the discussion here because it's not going anywhere.You keep telling me what i'm saying. You're not trying to understand what i am saying. I already told you what i'm saying 3 times now. For the 4th time, i do not like appeal to authority type arguments. To me it is dismissive and cuts off any discussion, well "scientist say" keep your cats indoors which is what some people are doing in here so you are anti science if you say allow your animals to go outside. That is even besides the fact that you are allowed as a thinking human being to question science, because science is inherently made to be question when other evidence is presented, no this is not me saying question everything and don't believe in science. Nobody has cited any scientist in here, just a few pages on websites and a science podcast that talks about the the effects of cats on domestic wildlife, an entire problem of our own making having millions of cats concentrated in regions without any natural predators to keep the population in control.
No. Not only do they prey upon wildlife, they breed with each other and proliferate. Urban environments are especially ripe for cats to breed in. If you want an outdoor cat, make an outdoor kennel to keep them in. Cats do not actually hunt rats as people think and prefer easier prey - this includes birds and smaller rodents. Birds in particular are hard hit by cats.
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0049369#:~:text=In summary, our data suggest,to be a significant problem.
But just like that journal says, it seems most urban cat owners are flippant about the idea of restricting their dear kitty's freedom in the name of conservation.
Quoting for a new page. Fuck your entitlement. Pet cats are a huge fucking part of the problem. Don't let them outside.
No. Not only do they prey upon wildlife, they breed with each other and proliferate. Urban environments are especially ripe for cats to breed in.
Multiple times!I love how this thread has turned into a debate about whether or not the cats should be kept inside... we're all just glossing over the fact that she admitted to running them over?
Ugh. My cat will start eating any plastic bag that someone leaves out. It's relentless.the following facts are true:
just because a cat seems to like it doesnt mean that it's safe to do so. one of our cats likes to eat plastic, it doesnt mean we let him
- pet cats want to be outside
- it is not safe for pet cats to be outside
the following facts are true:
just because a cat seems to like it doesnt mean that it's safe to do so. one of our cats likes to eat plastic, it doesnt mean we let him
- pet cats want to be outside
- it is not safe for pet cats to be outside
My neighbor's dog loves to eat plastic. I know this because every now and then i see dog poo on my lawn that has plastic in it.the following facts are true:
just because a cat seems to like it doesnt mean that it's safe to do so. one of our cats likes to eat plastic, it doesnt mean we let him
- pet cats want to be outside
- it is not safe for pet cats to be outside
That's why I don't let my pet humans outside.
Got'em king, bringing all the truth /s
Pretty hard to run over a cat if you keep it indoors. Just saying.I love how this thread has turned into a debate about whether or not the cats should be kept inside... we're all just glossing over the fact that she admitted to running them over?
No, not intentional, but " I don't want to tell you how many cats " means she couldn't be bothered to figure out a way of not running them over. It doesn't read as an accident, as much as gross negligence to me. At what point should she not be allowed to own a cat anymore?What is there to gloss over? She "admitted" to accidentally running over cats and being upset about it.
Did you read that as an intentional act?
Are some of you seriously saying cats shouldn't go outside? What?
Over here everybody let their cats out.
Quoting for a new page. Fuck your entitlement. Pet cats are a huge fucking part of the problem. Don't let them outside.
Forcing cats that are used to go outside to stay inside suddenly is obviously a bad idea, you can only do that slowly over time or in some cases not at all. Similarly if I suddenly banned my cats from entering a room they normally have access to they would get on my nerves or freak out. Cats reacting badly to suddenly losing territory isnt equivalent with cats not being happy indoors.Since you cited german sources before I assume you are german, so here is a german article reflecting my stance on it: https://www.tagesspiegel.de/berlin/tierhaltung-lasst-die-wohnungskatzen-frei/12161478.html
My grandparents had a farm with cats. I grew up in a house with a garden next to a tiny forest, we had 3 cats over the years (one was run over at the age of 8, one drank from a puddle that had some anti-freeze in it which meant the cat died within 24hours at the age of 11 and the other one died at the age of 13 because of liver failure). It was impossible to keep them inside. Even on NYE, when we always tried but never succeeded.
One of the cats once was gone for a couple of days. Then the local vet contacted us. The cat ran into a flat about 2 km away from us and the lady living there decided to keep him. 2 days in he destroyed her shit because she wouldn't let him outside. So she went to the vet with him and had the audacity to ask us to pay for the damages, the vet told her to fuck off.
I loved these cats, but I never viewed them as my toys. They are animals and deserve some autonomy.
I now live in a flat in the city. 85m2, not that small for Munich, but I'd never force a cat to live here. Everything I know cats to be is incompatible with captivity.
I'd rather not have a cat than keep one captive in my flat.
Maybe it's just different in the US?
.Cats and Birds | Are Cats Causing Bird Declines? - The RSPB
Estimates of how many birds are killed by cats each year vary. The most frequently caught birds are probably house sparrows, blue tits, blackbirds and starlingswww.rspb.org.uk
What does science show?
- No study has ever examined the impact of cats on songbirds at the population level
- Evidence shows that the recovering sparrowhawk population in the 1970-80s resulted in the decline of some songbird populations
- Cats kill around 3 times as many songbirds as sparrowhawks
- The mere presence of cats near birds' nests was found to decrease provision of food by a third while the resultant mobbing clamour from parent birds led in turn to increased nest predation by crows and magpies
- It is therefore far more likely that cats have an even greater impact on songbird populations than sparrowhawks
- The prevailing line that "there is no scientific evidence that predation by cats is having any impact on bird populations in UK" is simply no longer tenable.
RSPB accused of going soft on cats to appease donors
Research has found that cats kill 55 million birds a year
DUNCAN USHER/CORBIS
Ben Webster
Wednesday December 30 2015, 12.01am GMT, The Times
Britain's richest wildlife charity has been accused of ignoring the threat cats pose to birds because it fears losing millions of pounds in donations from cat owners.
The RSPB is deliberately underestimating the damage done by Britain's 10 million cats, which kill more than 55 million birds a year, according to Songbird Survival, a rival charity.
You think your bias is strong, I'm Australian and my dad worked in biosecurity his whole life :PBesides the risk to the actual , they are ducking awful for the environment and wildlife. Cats shouldn't be allowed out to roam as they please.
Massively irresponsible. I personally think it should be illegal to have an outdoor cat myself due to environmental impact. I am biased though and come from an island and feral domestic cats fucked our ecosystem.
Something this points out that is very underrated is that the domestic cat population is completely independent of the availability of prey and thats incredibly dangerous
Maybe it's just different in the US?
.Cats and Birds | Are Cats Causing Bird Declines? - The RSPB
Estimates of how many birds are killed by cats each year vary. The most frequently caught birds are probably house sparrows, blue tits, blackbirds and starlingswww.rspb.org.uk
Gardens may provide a breeding habitat for at least 20 per cent of the UK populations of house sparrows, starlings, greenfinches, blackbirds and song thrushes four of which are declining across the UK. For this reason it would be prudent to try to reduce cat predation as, although it is not causing the declines, some of these species are already under pressure.
Cat predation can be a problem where housing is next to scarce habitats such as heathland. It could potentially be most damaging to species with a restricted range (such as cirl buntings) or species dependent on a fragmented habitat (such as Dartford warblers on heathland).
I suppose this is the key point.Some of the divide seems to come from the fact that in Europe/The UK cats have been around so long that all the animals that can't deal with them are extinct.
Also you:As if science could examine what kinds of lives are "worth living"...
Who are you to tell me whether my cats are living a happy life or not? Here where I am in Canada it's dangerous for cats to be allowed outdoors. They are perfectly happy living inside with me getting lots of play time and snuggles. They're not being killed by raccoons or cars.Just because cats don't die when confined to a tiny space for their entire life doesn't mean this kind of life is worth living for them.
If you've seen how cats normally behave, I just don't get how you can think that having them indoors is an acceptable way of living for them.
I'm not saying it should be illegal, I'm just saying it's certainly not in the best interest of cats to function as the mere object of entertainment for humans.
I already left that apartment, so it's someone else's problem now. It was a gigantic hassle, but I couldn't exactly call the police about itHow negligent can you be that you wouldn't check for a clear driveway first? And letting pets outside...why are people so fucking selfish? Probably a climate change denier too.
They aren't just being rude, they are an active danger to the local ecosystem and a health hazard to your household. Is there nothing that can be done?
Who are you to tell me whether my cats are living a happy life or not? Here where I am in Canada it's dangerous for cats to be allowed outdoors. They are perfectly happy living inside with me getting lots of play time and snuggles. They're not being killed by raccoons or cars.
It should be law that all electric cars have to have outside facing speakers that play Jetsons car sounds whenever they move.
Right an if I would put you in a Cell for the Rest of your live you also wouldn't get hit by car or probably love much longer ;)
Quoting for a new page. Fuck your entitlement. Pet cats are a huge fucking part of the problem. Don't let them outside.
Oh yeah? Interesting.As of late last year all electric and hybrid vehicles are required to emit artificial noise for this purpose. I wouldn't be surprised if Tesla hasn't gotten around to updating vehicles yet.
Cats don't have the same romanticism about freedom that humans do.I just can't justify it for myself. Despite wanting a cat badly.
That is why we are in the state of things re: cats that we are now. Society has allowed cats to breed and hunt in the streets and otherwise with impunity and no regard for the consequences, of which we have been observing for some dozens of years. Even faced with the facts, people hold on to this vision of freedom for their cats like it's their right to go terrorize the local ecology, just because.Have cats become indoor only very recently? I can see a few rich people but most of history has cats walking about outdoors. Tons of them in Japan, probably why the crows so big out there.
In many countries in the world they are part of the eco system. I admit I am ignorant about the US as I don't live there so I was shocked people actually do keep them in doors but in many countries cats live everywhere. A lot of them even come from the deserts or jungles.Besides the risk to the actual , they are ducking awful for the environment and wildlife. Cats shouldn't be allowed out to roam as they please.
Massively irresponsible. I personally think it should be illegal to have an outdoor cat myself due to environmental impact. I am biased though and come from an island and feral domestic cats fucked our ecosystem.
It isn't just the US having problems with cat predation. This idea that cats will just naturally adapt and fit neatly into existing ecosystems is a comforting one, but not true. Cats are incredible hunters and most areas of human habitat keep larger predators away. Cats originated in the desert, but have long been domesticated and are bred for pets worldwide. With the aid of humans cats have become one of the most prolific predators in the animal kingdom. What might seem like natural habitat to them now was at one point a different ecosystem that was irreparably impacted by the introduction of cats. They are very much a part of human-induced climate change.In many countries in the world they are part of the eco system. I admit I am ignorant about the US as I don't live there so I was shocked people actually do keep them in doors but in many countries cats live everywhere. A lot of them even come from the deserts or jungles.
Same with dogs.
Sure but not every country is the same.It isn't just the US having problems with cat predation. This idea that cats will just naturally adapt and fit neatly into existing ecosystems is a comforting one, but not true. Cats are incredible hunters and most areas of human habitat keep larger predators away. Cats originated in the desert, but have long been domesticated and are bred for pets worldwide. With the aid of humans cats have become one of the most prolific predators in the animal kingdom. What might seem like natural habitat to them now was at one point a different ecosystem that was irreparably impacted by the introduction of cats. They are very much a part of human-induced climate change.
Where are domestic cats not an invasive species?Sure but not every country is the same.
A lot of countries do have cats that are a part of the eco system. They were never pets to begin with. I know because I come from such country.
In many parts in Asia (especially the levant countries) , many parts of Africa, some parts of Europe.
All domestic cats originated in Egypt. I would wager most all ecosystems where cats are present that aren't a desert have suffered the effects of them as an invasive species.Sure but not every country is the same.
A lot of countries do have cats that are a part of the eco system. They were never pets to begin with. I know because I come from such country.
I always believed this to be the case but this thread surprised me and I understood that I was wrong about it as not every country is the same.
Perhaps they did but today they have integrated themselves. Some countries are affected more than the others. Knowing how cats were new to the US I can understand they might cause a problem but in many parts of the worlds they are not an issue and them staying outside isn't dangerous.All domestic cats originated in Egypt. I would wager most all ecosystems where cats are present that aren't a desert have suffered the effects of them as an invasive species.
Okay, but we also have multiple studies from many different parts of the world where this is clearly not the case. It is most definitely not US exceptionalism at work here.Perhaps they did but today they have integrated themselves. Some countries are affected more than the others. Knowing how cats were new to the US I can understand they might cause a problem but in many parts of the worlds they are not an issue and them staying outside isn't dangerous.