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Nov 18, 2017
2,932
This thread is repeating what hs already been stated before in similar threads.

Regardless of whether 16-18 is legal in your country, it's widely considered gross (or illegal) for a mature man to pursue that kind of sexual relationship.

18-19 there is still a potentially abusive power dynamic at play, but everybody over the age of 18 is a legal adult capable of making their own choices. A 35 year old going out with an 18 year old will be likely be socially and culturally frowned upon for a variety of reasons regardless of the legality.

20 and above, age gaps are not an issue. They might be a bad idea born out of psychological hang-ups, but they might also work for the individuals involved.
 

Euler007

Member
Jan 10, 2018
5,045
I think we have enough living pieces of shit to worry about before going back to the dead ones.
 

Barrel Cannon

It's Pronounced "Aerith"
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
9,318
Holy shit, so because he died everyone overlooked it?

What a fucking disgusting world.

^Those are some false assumptions

It was known news for a long time and people complained about it before his death as well. At the time of death many people overlook the bad and try to remember the good of people which is why it wasn't mentioned as much following his death.
 

Lurcharound

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,069
UK
You really think everything "enforceable" in a society has to come via handcuffs and jail sentences?

Speaking openly about the dislike and morality of older adults going after 16-year-olds acts as a decent deterrent in a society to show we largely think, as a collective, it's not acceptable even if legal. Maybe you're hanging about some dodgy high schools, but for the rest of us we don't tend to see many adults who could pass as teenagers dads picking them up, in a relationship, from high school.

Society does not a bad job of socially setting "boundaries" we think are reasonable even if they aren't codified precisely in law. What doesn't help is posters in this topic telling everyone to be quiet and stop speaking because it's just "outrage" or see the below, "too close to my daughter is dating a black man".



You're really going to play the black man card in this topic in order to contrast that to your hypothetical 16 year old daughter dating a 35 year old?
Historically society has often done a terrifically bad job at setting boundaries and to be blunt unless it's enforceable it will be ignored in current society. Do you actually think that an older guy who wants to date younger women won't because some will frown on it? People who want to do that aren't going to give a damn. Check on Seinfeld, etc. They don't care.

Sure in the past people tended to avoid anything frowned upon that could harm them but today? Forget it. It's not the case in Western society. Unless it's illegal it's going to happen.

You're trying to apply social diapers and it doesn't work and it's never really worked. The evidence is against you.

For the record as noted I don't myself think that kind of age gap where the guy is older and the woman is a young teenager is advisable, not because of any social mores (I give a fuck about those as much as eating with the right fork) but because the chance of abuse and misuse of experience is high. But that's neither here nor there in terms of impact on anyone's behavior.

And TBH as per my original reply to the question in the OP: the reason there isn't some huge issue or backlash is because the majority actually don't view it that way or deem it worth concern without evidence of actual abuse.

Keep arguing if you wish but realize I'm merely noting the facts as they exist today. Beyond frowns this behavior doesn't get nor legally warrant further response and as with the current lack of interest or outrage that will continue to be the case. I'm done though. I've stated why - as is observably the case - there isn't some outcry in this case (or similar cases) in current society, I've noted certain age gaps can be a cause for concern hence they're not necessarily advisable, and I'm leaving it at that.

One last thing though, if you think this is somehow about dodgy locations and uneducated folks you're sorely mistaken. This happens at all levels of Western society to varying degrees which is part of why it's accepted. Final example. Friend of mine who's a (now) a senior director at a large company's young daughter (17 at time) rebels, leaves home and shacks up with an older guy (around 33 at time) for six years until she's 23. My friend's not happy, his wife isn't happy, but you know what? Nothing to be done. She's of age of consent, it's her choice even if my friend believes it to be poorly thought out and immature. Our social circle felt it was a case for concern in principle: but there was clearly nothing that crossed legal boundaries and to be fair to the older guy there was never any hint of abuse at all. Now I mention this example specifically because the girl involved is now 31 and I know her well socially as an adult via my friend and talking to her I know that there was never any abuse or other issue with the relationship whatsoever. She wanted to shack up with someone older. She wanted to annoy her father at the time. And she is of the view as a mature adult she had a good fun time and gained experience and life lessons faster than her peers who were dating 19, 20 and 21 year olds and she's perfectly happy with the decision she made at 17. Now honestly, what real position are you or I or anyone to prevent this and effectively impose what we want on to her and force her to not do something she wanted to do. At the end of the day you set an age of consent, you set rules for abuse and other behavior and so long as those aren't triggered then that's that. This happens and it's not uncommon and it's not just older guys taking advantage either. A percentage of younger women actively seek older men because they want that relationship. Sometimes it goes wrong and sometimes it's fine but either way it's realistically impossible to police which is why it isn't and it's also why, today as we seek to have more equality and diversity and after generations of rebelling youth you're not going to see much outrage if any at all just because an older guy (Walker in this case) dated some very young women without crossing any legal lines.
 

Trey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,088
"My daughter is dating a 35 year old?!" is just a bit too close to "My daughter is dating a black man?!" and "My daughter is gay?!" It reeks of outrage born from disgust, rather than outrage born from genuine concern for the younger person's safety. It seems alarmingly... conservative in its psychological roots.

Nah, this ain't it my guy.
 

TheZynster

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,287
I am 40 and girls and boys that age look like children to me.

Attraction is a weird ass thing but I doubt it will ever be socially acceptable for old people to hook up with teenagers. Even if it is legal people are going to give you the stink eye.


to me when you say back in my day to your SO..............your age might be to far apart especially if that SO is under the drinking age
 

Thurston Last

Banned
Jul 26, 2018
1,350
This thread is repeating what hs already been stated before in similar threads.

Regardless of whether 16-18 is legal in your country, it's widely considered gross (or illegal) for a mature man to pursue that kind of sexual relationship.

18-19 there is still a potentially abusive power dynamic at play, but everybody over the age of 18 is a legal adult capable of making their own choices. A 35 year old going out with an 18 year old will be likely be socially and culturally frowned upon for a variety of reasons regardless of the legality.

20 and above, age gaps are not an issue. They might be a bad idea born out of psychological hang-ups, but they might also work for the individuals involved.

It's still kind of subjective though. Like why not 21 instead of 20, or 19 instead of 20 is there such a huge difference between those ages?

Say we change the age of consent to 20, well then we will call 35 year olds who creep on 20 year olds creeps for targeting the youngest "legal" girls. Is that really significantly different than targeting an 18 year old?

I think wherever we decide to draw the line, anyone dating girls right at the line, that is ~10 years older is going to be considered suspect. And with good reason, but treating them with suspicion is not the same as accusing them of being a pedo, which is how this thread started out.

People in their 40s and 50s still make poor relationship decisions, and can be victims of abuse. But we understand at some point people are adults and need to be given the right to make decisions.
 
Nov 9, 2017
3,777
It isn't illegal to be a white nationalist either. Doesn't mean that if you are one that society shouldn't shun you and let you know your behavior is unacceptable.
 

Deleted member 888

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
14,361
Historically society has often done a terrifically bad job at setting boundaries and to be blunt unless it's enforceable it will be ignored in current society. Do you actually think that an older guy who wants to date younger women won't because some will frown on it? People who want to do that aren't going to give a damn. Check on Seinfeld, etc. They don't care.

Yes, because of social exclusion, people criticizing you and possibly even your friends and family calling you out are powerful consequences that aid in sculpting people. Most parents of 16 year olds will probably also attempt to beat your ass if you're a 35-year-old man trying to have sex with their daughter. Although it's clear some potential to be fathers in this topic seem to be suggesting they'll be like "yes dear, you go with that 40-year-old man if you want, it's legal!".

Whenever you go to movie stars, pop singers or others in powerful positions like that there can be more open abuse/"less" people talking about it. On the latter, it's sometimes just because those speaking out get drowned out by rabid fans going mental if someone dares say something about their idols.
 

Deleted member 15326

User requested account closure
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Oct 27, 2017
4,219
If we change that age to 18 (as 16 is typically illegal here), even though I find the idea of huge age gaps icky, there's something about this stance that I instinctively dislike.

"My daughter is dating a 35 year old?!" is just a bit too close to "My daughter is dating a black man?!" and "My daughter is gay?!" It reeks of outrage born from disgust, rather than outrage born from genuine concern for the younger person's safety. It seems alarmingly... conservative in its psychological roots.

No

No middle aged man is interested in a teenager for a healthy relationship and your analogy is terrible
 
Nov 18, 2017
2,932
It's still kind of subjective though. Like why not 21 instead of 20, or 19 instead of 20 is there such a huge difference between those ages?

Say we change the age of consent to 20, well then we will call 35 year olds who creep on 20 year olds creeps for targeting the youngest "legal" girls. Is that really significantly different than targeting an 18 year old?

Honestly there probably isn't a massive difference morally between 18-20, it's more practically in the way our higher education system works there's a ton of development in those years that are formative, in addition the level of interpersonal and financial dependence is greater for an 18 year old compared to the average 20-21 year old.

From my mid-20's I never considered dating anyone below the age of 21. Not morality, but because I generally found them really annoying.
 
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GameShrink

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
2,680
No

No middle aged man is interested in a teenager for a healthy relationship and your analogy is terrible
Nah, this ain't it my guy.
It's ageism. By definition, it is a prejudice similar in concept to racism and homophobia.

While it's obviously less harmful to society at large, saying "I don't want my 18-year-old daughter to date a 35-year-old because I find it morally wrong!" is bigotry. Anyone who tries to force their morals onto law-abiding people who did not ask for their input is in the wrong.
 

Deleted member 888

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
14,361
It's ageism. By definition, it is a prejudice similar in concept to racism and homophobia.

While it's obviously less harmful to society at large, saying "I don't want my 18-year-old daughter to date a 35-year-old because I find it morally wrong!" is bigotry. Anyone who tries to force their morals onto law-abiding people who did not ask for their input is in the wrong.

No, it's not. I'll explain it to you yet again

No one decides their skin colour at birth and thanks to the last 30~50 years of research and understanding we could confirm no one chooses their sexual orientation either. I'm sure you're aware people used to think "the gays" were just choosing to be homosexual, and homosexuality used to be treated as a medical condition. Trying to use skin colour and sexual orientation as a parallel in your argument is in poor taste.

A 35-year-old trying to sleep with/date a 16-year-old is a choice. It's a choice that society judges under the lens of ethics/morality, responsibility, maturity, puberty and often, power. So yes, society, at large, will continue to judge and comment on men of such an age trying to bed barely legal teens.
 
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Dynamite Cop

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,002
California
He was young-looking enough, white and made Hollywood a lot of money. Of course people game him a pass. But as others have said, that would've changed, though, if he had been alive during #metoo
 

Deleted member 15326

User requested account closure
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Oct 27, 2017
4,219
It's ageism. By definition, it is a prejudice similar in concept to racism and homophobia.

While it's obviously less harmful to society at large, saying "I don't want my 18-year-old daughter to date a 35-year-old because I find it morally wrong!" is bigotry. Anyone who tries to force their morals onto law-abiding people who did not ask for their input is in the wrong.

Man, shut the fuck up.

It's not ageism, it's realizing that a teenager has nothing to offer a middle aged man in terms of a relationship other than sex and that it's not healthy. I doubt these motherfuckers bond over common interests seeing as how the girls didn't exist when these dudes were thinking about which colleges to apply to.

You must be a straight white dude
 

riotous

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,364
Seattle
It's ageism. By definition, it is a prejudice similar in concept to racism and homophobia.

While it's obviously less harmful to society at large, saying "I don't want my 18-year-old daughter to date a 35-year-old because I find it morally wrong!" is bigotry. Anyone who tries to force their morals onto law-abiding people who did not ask for their input is in the wrong.
By that definition it's "ageism" to frown on a 30 year old dating a 9 year old too.

Yes, people do not respect the decisions of teenagers as much as they respect the decisions of someone who is 30, so therefor they are protective over teenagers more than they are protective over 30 year olds. It's the exaxt same concept as why they are protective over 9 year olds too, would you call that bigotry and in the wrong?

So, in the end.. using your "well technically that's ageism" definition makes zero sense; it's a term that should be reserved for harmful age discrimination, not every single instance of treating someone different because of their age.
 

Fallout-NL

Member
Oct 30, 2017
6,752
No one decides their skin colour at birth and thanks to the last 30~50 years of research and understanding we could confirm no one chooses their sexual orientation either.

I can't quite discern this from your post, but you would also agree that a pedophile is born with that sexual orientation, right? His or her acting on something they know is wrong is where choice comes in.
 
Nov 9, 2017
3,777
So many gross replies in here I feel like I need to take a shower. Thankfully most teens would be utterly disgusted by these older predators who lust after them in such a creepy fashion.
 

Deleted member 888

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
14,361
I can't quite discern this from your post, but you would also agree that a pedophile is born with that sexual orientation, right? His or her acting on something they know is wrong is where choice comes in.

Sexual orientation as in attracted to the same sex, opposite sex or both sexes (or none). Paedophilia is not sexual orientation.
 

GameShrink

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
2,680
Man, shut the fuck up.

It's not ageism, it's realizing that a teenager has nothing to offer a middle aged man in terms of a relationship other than sex and that it's not healthy. I doubt these motherfuckers bond over common interests seeing as how the girls didn't exist when these dudes were thinking about which colleges to apply to.

You must be a straight white dude
Cool, got it.

I thought 18-year-old women had autonomy that deserved to be respected, thanks for setting me straight. I'll leave this topic now.
 

Fallout-NL

Member
Oct 30, 2017
6,752
Sexual orientation as in attracted to the same sex, opposite sex or both sexes (or none). Paedophilia is not sexual orientation.

We'll probably need another 30 years of research before people start coming around to that point of view then.

Think about it, do you really think anyone would want to be a pedophile given the choice? It's absurd to even think that imho.

To clarify. The label should probably be some kind of disorder. Not a 'normal' sexual orientation.
 

The Grizz

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,458
Coming in late to this topic and was not at all aware of this. Disgusting and really changes how I feel about him. I thought he was a decent, down to earth guy. Turns out the opposite.

On a site note; what are people's thoughts on Hugh Hefner? Was he gross? I never heard this kind of backlash against him and he was sleeping around with people 1/4 of his age.
 

Deleted member 888

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
14,361
We'll probably need another 30 years of research before people start coming around to that point of view then.

Think about it, do you really think anyone would want to a pedophile given the choice? It's absurd to even think that imho.

No, we don't, paedophilia is not recognised as sexual orientation. In the DSM-5

Pedophilia is termed pedophilic disorder in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5), and the manual defines it as a paraphilia involving intense and recurrent sexual urges towards and fantasiesabout prepubescent children that have either been acted upon or which cause the person with the attraction distress or interpersonal difficulty.[4] The International Classification of Diseases (ICD-11) defines it as a "sustained, focused, and intense pattern of sexual arousal—as manifested by persistent sexual thoughts, fantasies, urges, or behaviours—involving pre-pubertal children."[6]

Whether you want to point to how research is ongoing in trying to pinpoint all reasonings behind it or not, which the fields involved in studying state there are potentially many causes, don't argue it's a sexual orientation. It isn't and never will be. Sexual orientation is defined as I stated it above.

People misuse the sexual orientation tag to throw paedophilia into the mix to try and normalize it or incorrectly state what it is.

edit: Seen your edit. At the moment it is routinely referred to as a psychiatric disorder, but it's never been referred to as a sexual orientation and never will be.
 

riotous

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,364
Seattle
Cool, got it.

I thought 18-year-old women had autonomy that deserved to be respected, thanks for setting me straight. I'll leave this topic now.
You can't just draw a line and say "frowning on older people dating someone at THIS age is fine, frowning on people dating someone this other slightly higher age is AGEISM AND BIGOTRY!"

Is one definition of "agemsim" "treating people different because of their age"? Sure.. but that's not the definition you should be throwing around comparisons to homophobia and racism. Treating people different because of age is a basic tenant of our society, how we raise children, and is the basis for the very laws that set things like age of consent. It's not bigotry always that's ridiculous.
 

RedMercury

Blue Venus
Member
Dec 24, 2017
17,694
We'll probably need another 30 years of research before people start coming around to that point of view then.
I think we're good where we're at.
Think about it, do you really think anyone would want to be a pedophile given the choice? It's absurd to even think that imho.
Of course, I'm sure there are a ton of sickos who love the thought of being in a perverted position of power over someone younger and using that to initiate a relationship.
To clarify. The label should probably be some kind of disorder. Not a 'normal' sexual orientation.
There might be some messed up neural pathways but the fact is nobody forces them to groom or molest or seek out images or any of that so it's really a moot point.
 

Deleted member 11093

User requested account closure
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Oct 27, 2017
9,095
Jesus Christ, I did not know this at all and I kept up with social media on reddit, GAF and twitter at the time. Gross how people tried sweeping this under the carpet.
 

GameShrink

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
2,680
You can't just draw a line and say "frowning on older people dating someone at THIS age is fine, frowning on people dating someone this other slightly higher age is AGEISM AND BIGOTRY!"

Is one definition of "agemsim" "treating people different because of their age"? Sure.. but that's not the definition you should be throwing around comparisons to homophobia and racism. Treating people different because of age is a basic tenant of our society, how we raise children, and is the basis for the very laws that set things like age of consent. It's not bigotry always that's ridiculous.

You can when one is legal and the other isn't.

Our legal system has drawn that line, and I'm fine with the line they've drawn. It's when other people start drawing their own lines based on subjective morality that I object. Especially when it undermines the autonomy of those involved.
 

riotous

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,364
Seattle
You can when one is legal and the other isn't.

Our legal system has drawn that line, and I'm fine with the line they've drawn. It's when other people start drawing their own lines based on subjective morality that I object. Especially when it undermines the autonomy of those involved.
I'm talking about drawing a line and calling something bigotry; the legal system does not define what is bigotry or not.

Otherwise in one country frowning on dating 16 year olds is bigotry, in another it's not since the law says 18.. that's not how that works.

You can object all you want; learn how to express that without comparing people to racists and homophobes though. You believe we should allow 18 year olds to date whomever they want when it comes to age, without judgment. That's one way to look at things and I don't necessarily disagree. That's totally different than calling anyone who doesn't think that way a bigot.
 

Deleted member 15326

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,219
You can when one is legal and the other isn't.

Our legal system has drawn that line, and I'm fine with the line they've drawn. It's when other people start drawing their own lines based on subjective morality that I object. Especially when it undermines the autonomy of those involved.

Lol knew you weren't actually leaving
 

Baji Boxer

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,383
It's ageism. By definition, it is a prejudice similar in concept to racism and homophobia.

While it's obviously less harmful to society at large, saying "I don't want my 18-year-old daughter to date a 35-year-old because I find it morally wrong!" is bigotry. Anyone who tries to force their morals onto law-abiding people who did not ask for their input is in the wrong.
No it's not, it's recognition of a fact of human development. You clearly have no real understanding of bigotry. And your statement about morals and the law is just ridiculous. First you're conflating a strong opinion with "force", and secondly there is nothing inherently immoral about telling someone what you think they should do, or whether or not they're wrong. An example given above is white supremecy, and there's numerous other instances that make sense to be very loud and persistant in how someone should behave regardless of legality.
 
Oct 25, 2017
13,704
"My daughter is dating a 35 year old?!" is just a bit too close to "My daughter is dating a black man?!" and "My daughter is gay?!" It reeks of outrage born from disgust, rather than outrage born from genuine concern for the younger person's safety. It seems alarmingly... conservative in its psychological roots.
.

Lmao, stay woke
 

Skelepuzzle

Member
Apr 17, 2018
6,119
You know how some of the most anti-LGBT people are actually closeted gays trying to cover it up or hide their self guilt?

Makes you think...

If we change that age to 18 (as 16 is typically illegal here), even though I find the idea of huge age gaps icky, there's something about this stance that I instinctively dislike.

"My daughter is dating a 35 year old?!" is just a bit too close to "My daughter is dating a black man?!" and "My daughter is gay?!" It reeks of outrage born from disgust, rather than outrage born from genuine concern for the younger person's safety. It seems alarmingly... conservative in its psychological roots.

If my daughter was dating a 35-year-old guy who was respectful, supportive and nurturing, I'd be fine with it. If she was dating a misogynistic sleazeball her own age, I'd be deeply concerned.

"If you think this is gross then YOU'RE the real monster!"

This thread is starting to look really familiar. Please nuke it from orbit.
 

Vern

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
5,097
Man, shut the fuck up.

It's not ageism, it's realizing that a teenager has nothing to offer a middle aged man in terms of a relationship other than sex and that it's not healthy. I doubt these motherfuckers bond over common interests seeing as how the girls didn't exist when these dudes were thinking about which colleges to apply to.

You must be a straight white dude


Leaving aside the age difference you two are discussing, let's say two adults of similar ages want a relationship that is strictly physical is that not ok? Is that unhealthy? Seems that's what you are saying, which is obviously pretty dumb, but I don't wanna assume.
 

Ascenion

Prophet of Truth - One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,151
Mecklenburg-Strelitz
The more fucked up thing is that in the US age of consent is 16 in most places. This is generally for Romeo and Juliet laws but some sick fucks exploit it to "open up their options". Fucking disgusting.
 

adamsappel

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,503
We're about three posts away from someone posting pictures of Walker's girlfriends and apparently it will be okay to say, "I'd hit it. It's totally legal where I'm from." Thread needs to be locked, but not before mods explain why being pedantic rates a one-month ban, but outright stating you're cool with older men fucking 16-year-olds is copacetic.
 

CopperPuppy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,636
"My daughter is dating a 35 year old?!" is just a bit too close to "My daughter is dating a black man?!" and "My daughter is gay?!" It reeks of outrage born from disgust, rather than outrage born from genuine concern for the younger person's safety. It seems alarmingly... conservative in its psychological roots.
What the fuck did I just stumble in to
 

Deleted member 888

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
14,361
What the fuck did I just stumble in to

XFeqQ7M.png
 

Fixed

Member
Oct 27, 2017
60
We're about three posts away from someone posting pictures of Walker's girlfriends and apparently it will be okay to say, "I'd hit it. It's totally legal where I'm from." Thread needs to be locked, but not before mods explain why being pedantic rates a one-month ban, but outright stating you're cool with older men fucking 16-year-olds is copacetic.

There's some messed up shit in here but the moding is out to fucking lunch, shocked at some of the bans and lengths (and non bans). Par for the course...
 
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