It's unreal how awkward and fucking weird the FF8 twist is presented (obvious spoilers)

[fourfourfun]

Yeah, because I spent time doing side stuff, reading at my desk in garden, talking to people in the world, I completely got how the GF's had affected people, and also Irvine doing a Tifa. Things like monsters falling from the moon become reconcilable once you understand the mechanics of the world.

If you belt through from set piece to set piece, you will not be able to trust the application of the world's logic once it thrusts itself upon you in a pivotal fashion.

 

[HK-47]

are we talking about ff8 or ff6 here

you're kinda unclear right now

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Probably would have said 25 years if that was the case

 

[Professor Beef]

Probably would have said 25 years if that was the case

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to be fair when i played ff6 it felt like years were being taken away from my lifespan because it was so boring

 

[Deleted member 426]

I think the GF thing could have been handled better, it was mentioned but more light could have been shone on it. But it's not as bad as people say. For me the whole 'you need to go to space' 'space? Yeah okay' thing was worse.

 

[Wazzy]

Eh it's okay.

The awkward and weird stuff is Squall doing a 180 from caring about nobody else to being completely fixated on saving Rinoa, and how everyone nonchalantly accepts that to see Ellone they have to go into space. I really like where disc 3 goes, but the first half of it is pretty jarring.

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*I don't have the images but this entire scene has Squall thinking about Rinoa's comments.

Sorry I wasn't aware FFVIII's story had a defense force I needed to worry about.

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Tbh I didn't even know you were giving away a copy.

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You entered the giveaway in my thread which means you read my OP.

side-eyed a person who was saying they liked the remaster's fast forward feature because they were only playing it for the story. This is weird to me because most of the fun of FFVIII is in abusing the game's junction system (and playing Triple Triad

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It's almost like people enjoy different things than you???

There is plenty of people who think the Junction system is shit.

 

[aspiegamer]

I think the GF thing could have been handled better, it was mentioned but more light could have been shone on it. But it's not as bad as people say. For me the whole 'you need to go to space' 'space? Yeah okay' thing was worse.

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Indeed, everyone was amazingly chill about it, despite coming up out of nowhere and still (I'd assume) being in massive culture shock mode from finding a nation generations of technology ahead of anything they'd ever seen.

I'd really have loved more story on the "GFs are basically CTE," though. Someone screams that Cid would never do something like that, then they never freaking ask Cid! In fact, he disappears entirely to hang out with his like-seriously-half-his-age wife after disc 2 and gives up on the garden entirely, leaving a bunch of goddamn teenagers to run the joint with seemingly no adult supervision.

 

[AgentLampshade]

It's really not that bad. It could have been foreshadowed a bit clearer, but it isn't nearly as bad as people make it out to be.

 

[Wazzy]

Indeed, everyone was amazingly chill about it, despite coming up out of nowhere and still (I'd assume) being in massive culture shock mode from finding a nation generations of technology ahead of anything they'd ever seen.

I'd really have loved more story on the "GFs are basically CTE," though. Someone screams that Cid would never do something like that, then they never freaking ask Cid! In fact, he disappears entirely to hang out with his like-seriously-half-his-age wife after disc 2 and gives up on the garden entirely, leaving a bunch of goddamn teenagers to run the joint with seemingly no adult supervision.

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Cid is a massive asshole. He also abandons them when the battle happens because he didn't want to fight Edea.

 

[Nakenorm]

FFVIII has lots of little details like that. Another example is the reason Seifer so desperately wants to be a "sorceress knight" is because his favorite film is the one where Laguna was playing a medieval knight saving a princess from a Red Dragon. Laguna even uses the same battle stance as the one Seifer later adopts.

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Ok. THIS I Didn't know. Damn I love FVIII

 

[Kittens McMittens]

This scene is basically the beating core of why FFVIII has probably the dumbest plot of any of the mainline FF games. It's just so obtuse and stupid. Overall I still like FF VIII, but man is it some dumb anime shit.

 

[JahIthBer]

FF8's story is just a mess in general, they wanted to jump on FF7's mind fuckery bandwagon, but didn't understand why it worked.
It's still a good game don't get me wrong, but damn the story if it ever gets a remake, needs some changes here & there.

 

[Carn]

It's probably the worst plot point in any of the mainline FF games and one of the reasons it's the weakest of the PS1 trilogy.

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agreed. took me out of the game hard, and as a result FF8 is one of the few mainline Final Fantasy games I never finished.

 

[Kilbane65]

Most Final Fantasy games have absolute nonsensical stories that would make a teenager that writes Twilight fan fiction feel like they're William fucking Shakespeare... but FF8 is special, in the sense that not only its storytelling is inconceivable, convoluted tripe but the world building feels like it was made using a blender full of bad ideas.
Still a fun game though, have fond memories of playing it.

 

[Gush]

Probably the dumbest possible direction an already dumb as rocks game could've taken at that point.

I get that there's a reason for the revelation but its so contrived, so sloppy and so unearned that no amount of deep lore and 5D time travel chess can make up for how groan inducing that entire scene and story beat is. If they had planned that twist from the start they did the worst possible job executing on it.

 

[Cugel]

Love that game

 

[GarudaSmiles]

The twist isn't great, but I think the level of hatred towards it is a bit overblown. It's a fun game with a few dopey moments and a a few underdeveloped characters. So basically the same as every other FF.

 

[Taruranto]

JME I can agree is probably the only thing I think is poorly thought out and explained in VIII. It's basically just stealing Ellones powers and using them with the machine but they don't go into why Ellone has her powers or how Odine even managed to create something like but it's time travel and 90% of the it will never make sense.

What exactly is wrong with the Assassination Attempt? It was obviously going to fail. Cid sent rookies because he thought Squall was guaranteed to succeed no matter what. It's kind of the whole point where Cid is a useless asshole?

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The whole plan is poorly thought, there was no reason trap the witch between the arc because 1) It would just alert her (Which happens, she just pops an energy shield on the bullet) 2) The parade is traveling incredibly slowly, Irvine is suppose to be a master sniper but can't hit a moving target on a giant float.... moving incredibly slowly... Even if the plan was incredibly flawed on purpose because the other Garden wanted them to fail (iirc) I find bizarre that no one in the party thought "Hey, maybe we shouldn't alert out target of this secret assassination mission?" Like, have some party members express some doubts on the whole thing, or whatever.

Then there is Quistis, who decides the best time to apologize to a teenager is in the middle of a mission deciding the fate of their world. Even if you want to argue it's a character flaw, these people are suppose to be elite agents (Also, she just needed to push a lever, just go back alone and leave the other two there). The whole sequence is just there to insert a dungeon obviously, but it makes everyone involved looking like a moron.

 

[FF Seraphim]

i pooped in everyones beds

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God damn summons made me forget about the nightmare of your existence!

 

[Oreiller]

My favorite thing about this scene is that another JRPG released around the same time had a very similar twist but its execution was much better.

FF8 has a lot of interesting story stuff but its storytelling is pretty poor.

 

[Cup O' Tea?]

Probably the dumbest possible direction an already dumb as rocks game could've taken at that point.

I get that there's a reason for the revelation but its so contrived, so sloppy and so unearned that no amount of deep lore and 5D time travel chess can make up for how groan inducing that entire scene and story beat is. If they had planned that twist from the start they did the worst possible job executing on it.

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I don't think it was planned. The supposed "clues" they give you about the GF amnesia thing felt very tacked on. It's like they needed a plot twist and pulled this out of their asses at the last second.

 

[Cup O' Tea?]

You entered the giveaway in my thread which means you read my OP.


It's almost like people enjoy different things than you???

There is plenty of people who think the Junction system is shit.

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I didn't read your OP and couldn't care less about a giveaway for a remaster that is largely reviled.

The junction system is shit btw. It's clear the game needed more time in the oven. I just had a lot of fun abusing the hell out of it's broken systems.

 

[BassForever]

I've been playing through this the past week or so, and yeah the twist comes out at an entirely random moment. Having not played this in 15+ years I'd entirely forgotten how bad it is. I will say, however, that the game is more fun than I remember it being, though that might be because I was doing a deliberately low-level run via fleeing all random encounters.

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A low level run doesn't mean much in FFVIII enemies scale to your level. Your stats largely come from junctioning which is you know what you're doing will comically break the game very early in disc 1. When you can refine like a tent into 20 curaga, junction it to health and have like +4,000 hp the idea of ff8 being difficult goes out the window. A no junction/no refine run would be a much better challenge then a low level run.

And yes the story of ff8 has always been awful and nonsensical

 

[Kyougar]

https://www.popsci.com/blog-network/kinderlab/birth-memory-why-kids-forget-what-happened-age-7/

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/when-do-children-start-making-long-term-memories/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Childhood_amnesia

It is very unlikely that you remember things that happened when you ware under 7 years old. Especially with people that you were out of contact for 10 years.
You are 16-17, you have no photos, no contact, no mention of your friends from 10 years ago, I challange you to remember and pick out of a crowd that friend from when you were 6 or 7.

 

[Dreamboum]

https://www.popsci.com/blog-network/kinderlab/birth-memory-why-kids-forget-what-happened-age-7/

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/when-do-children-start-making-long-term-memories/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Childhood_amnesia

It is very unlikely that you remember things that happened when you ware under 7 years old. Especially with people that you were out of contact for 10 years.
You are 16-17, you have no photos, no contact, no mention of your friends from 10 years ago, I challange you to remember and pick out of a crowd that friend from when you were 6 or 7.

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They lived together

 

[Kyougar]

They lived together

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doesn't mean anything. Children under 6 forget their birth parents and don't remember that they were adopted.

 

[Barrel Cannon]

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You're the best looking dog on era

 

[Calliope]

When I first played VIII many years ago, I remember reaching this scene, watching it unfold, then angrily putting my controller down and walking away, feeling like someone had just insulted me lol. The scene ended up tarnishing my overall feelings on VIII and it's characters from that point forward.

But I'm playing the remaster now, and maybe with age I've learned to relax and not take it so seriously. It's just not worth it to hate on something from a series I love, and other FFs have pulled worse offenses than VIII's poor writing tbh. Also knowing that this reveal is coming does help to pick up on the foreshadowing of it, although the hints are almost too subtle to stick for someone playing for their first time. I can't fault anyone for being bothered by the orphanage scene, but it's been a better experience for me knowing about it going in.

being fucking weird is FF8's greatest strength

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I read this article just yesterday and laughed my way through it. I just can't hate anything this bonkers.

 

[WellbornWarrior]

It wouldn't be such a problem if GFs would have gotten any kind of explanation. There just there and their whole existence makes no sense and they tied it to the story by giving them another unexplained property, namely the memory erasure thing.

 

[jett]

My brain eliminated nearly every bit of this game's story, characters and locations.

Except for the orphanage shit.

For better or for worse, it's FF8's most memorable moment LOL.

 

[Boddy]

I'm honestly not sure what the point of this twist is other than having a cool sounding twist.

 

[Deleted member 426]

I didn't read your OP and couldn't care less about a giveaway for a remaster that is largely reviled.

The junction system is shit btw. It's clear the game needed more time in the oven. I just had a lot of fun abusing the hell out of it's broken systems.

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But it's still one of your top 10 favourite games ever though, right?

 

[Dyno]

It's kind of why the Rinoa is Ultimecia theory makes more sense to me. If it's some fucked up time loop of one person trying to find their way back to another by destroying time to do so then it at least makes some sort of sense how it would all be so heavily focused around their group.

 

[Pokiehl]

I finished the game yesterday, after not having played it since I was a teenager. Watching the whole story play out, I now have a greater respect for the forgotten memories/orphanage plotline - Irvine's role is the only thing that still bothers me.

But overall I realized that this story is mostly about Squall and Laguna. It worked really well for them, somewhat well for Rinoa and Edea, and not great for the rest of the team and Seifer. But if you primarily focus on Squall's development, it's one of the best FF plots.

 

[Cup O' Tea?]

But it's still one of your top 10 favourite games ever though, right?

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I don't like your purity test bullshit but I'll humour you anyway. Yes this game is easily top 10 for me. I would have played through it 3 or 4 times now. FFVIII's broken ass allows you to build some insanely strong characters if you know what you're doing. I had a lot of fun doing a no-encounter/ GF bonus point run. You can end up with +90 on all your major stats this way without resorting to cheating or glitches. There is also the soundtrack, the setting and Triple Triad to round out this game's strengths.

I'm just not going to celebrate FFVIII's story. It's really very bad and the weakest aspect of the game, which is a real shame because the game's world is pretty interesting and well designed.

 

[Leandras]

FFVIII has lots of little details like that. Another example is the reason Seifer so desperately wants to be a "sorceress knight" is because his favorite film is the one where Laguna was playing a medieval knight saving a princess from a Red Dragon. Laguna even uses the same battle stance as the one Seifer later adopts.

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Yo!!! How the hell did I connect that before? :O

 

[Mendrox]

FFVIII is a broken gameplay mess with a terrible story. That twist could have been so much better.

 

[Worldshaker]

The plot twist was my least favorite part of FF8, but it's still a fun game overall. I feel like the stories pacing was just off.

 

[Grahf]

The problem lies not with the twist itself but its execution : it's rushed and unsatisfying.
They should have distilled that in manageable bites and hype the thing a little, and it wouldn't be as reviled as it is today.

 

[Deleted member 426]

I don't like your purity test bullshit but I'll humour you anyway. Yes this game is easily top 10 for me. I would have played through it 3 or 4 times now. FFVIII's broken ass allows you to build some insanely strong characters if you know what you're doing. I had a lot of fun doing a no-encounter/ GF bonus point run. You can end up with +90 on all your major stats this way without resorting to cheating or glitches. There is also the soundtrack, the setting and Triple Triad to round out this game's strengths.

I'm just not going to celebrate FFVIII's story. It's really very bad and the weakest aspect of the game, which is a real shame because the game's world is pretty interesting and well designed.

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Hey look, if you genuinely love the game that's great. It's surprising given how many issues you have, but if that's not enough to make the game bad in your opinion then that's cool. It's also totally fine to have strong criticisms of the game (obviously) it's just it's all too common for people to have a hate boner for a game but pretend they 'like it anyway' to seem impartial, when really they just want to shit and troll. And that's not an FF8 thing, happens all the time on Era for any game. I'm glad that's not you.

 

[The Johnstruct]

I'm honestly not sure what the point of this twist is other than having a cool sounding twist.

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They already have a cool sounding twist as well Laguna is Squalls father.

 

[cairngorm]

FFVIII has lots of little details like that. Another example is the reason Seifer so desperately wants to be a "sorceress knight" is because his favorite film is the one where Laguna was playing a medieval knight saving a princess from a Red Dragon. Laguna even uses the same battle stance as the one Seifer later adopts.

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Man I really need to replay this

 

[Diablos]

The GF's made me forget to wake up on time.

But yeah. It's where the story kind of falls apart. FF8 is okay, but coming off the hype of FF7, it was kind of a buzzkill and this is one of the many reasons why.

 

[Cup O' Tea?]

Probably worth pointing out that most of FFVIII's issues stem from it being rushed in production. I've heard that Square wanted a quick turn around to capitalise on the momentum they had with FFVII. I think Final Fantasy VIII may have only been in development for somewhere between 1.5 - 2 years. It's pretty nuts they were able to churn out a game as good as this given the time they had.

 

[Wazzy]

I didn't read your OP and couldn't care less about a giveaway for a remaster that is largely reviled.

The junction system is shit btw. It's clear the game needed more time in the oven. I just had a lot of fun abusing the hell out of it's broken systems.

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You clearly cared enough to enter for a free copy. You can also stop playing dumb. You posted an entry for the Remaster which means you had to read the requirements.

"Largely reviled" because Steam babies are whining over censorship and review bombing? Yeah okay. The game was still critically reviewed well and is number one on the Eshop.

 

[Cup O' Tea?]

You clearly cared enough to enter for a free copy. You can also stop playing dumb. You posted an entry for the Remaster which means you had to read the requirements.

"Largely reviled" because Steam babies are whining over censorship and review bombing? Yeah okay. The game was still critically reviewed well and is number one on the Eshop.

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I mostly meant the technical issues. I watched that Digital Foundry video on FFVIII-R and was aghast at what I was seeing. Seems like a pretty low effort port.

 

[Woozies]

Of course you did. Easy way to get out of defending your point.

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No, I did 't cause if you read my post then ypur first statement wouldn't be "development out of nowhere. Cause I never posited that, nor suggested.

Instead of being so god damn defensive, maybe address the issue I stated? Aka, the pacing being terrible.

 

[Deleted member 13155]

The scene felt sort of ham fisted. I didn't like it much in 1999 either.

Like GF is eating away memories. I thought it was kind of weak. Then Selphie had never used GF, but then she confessed she actually did. A few orphans from the same place I would buy, but this is the entire cast bar Rinoa.

 

[Voytek]

Yeah I've never liked the orphanage thing either. FF8 is an odd game for me. I dislike a lot of things about it (characters, story, combat) but somehow still manage to really enjoy it.

 

[Wazzy]

No, I did 't cause if you read my post then ypur first statement wouldn't be "development out of nowhere. Cause I never posited that, nor suggested.

Instead of being so god damn defensive, maybe address the issue I stated? Aka, the pacing being terrible.

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I already responded to your issue and disagreed with it by posting examples. You then wrote that you ignored everything I posted because you think I ignored the first part of your post when I didn't. You can't come at me as being defensive when you literally wrote off my whole response lmao

In regards to your original post, when you exaggerate something by saying it felt like an entire disc worth of development was missing then I'm going to treat that exaggeration the same as someone saying the switch in feelings was sudden and out of nowhere.

I mostly meant the technical issues. I watched that Digital Foundry video on FFVIII-R and was aghast at what I was seeing. Seems like a pretty low effort port.

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There is issues with the Remaster that pretty much everyone can acknowledge but that doesn't make it a low effort port. The game is based off the PC port because there is no source code for PS1. They had to use a hacked up port(MIDI music, frame rate issues, glitches, same model issues as PS1, world map texture issues) and turn it into something playable across multiple platforms. They updated all character models which includes NPC's, all summons, all bosses and a huge portions of enemies that looked off with the new models. They added the PS1 music back in(Only The Landing has an issue which is forced in the garden battle) and boosters to make things smoother for new players and old wanting to replay. The FMV's are touched up compared to PS1 and the backgrounds are touched up but blurred so it looks bad with the new models in some areas.

 

[Sadist]

Yeah, the Seifer stance is something I did not know. Thats cool!

In regards to the OP's story, he's not wrong. I played the game several times and while I saw the allusions to the reveal after those multiple playthroughs, it still made the game a bit of a bummer due to the reveal.

It just felt so random and convenient; hell, not convenient, but it came completely out of left field.