I really agree. Highjack their message and turn it into a campaign supporting diversity isn't a bad idea.
"It's ok to all races" might be best, actually, just to flip all lives matter
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"It's Okay to be White": A campaign on college campuses in USA
- Thread starter weemadarthur
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I really agree. Highjack their message and turn it into a campaign supporting diversity isn't a bad idea.
"It's ok to all races" might be best, actually, just to flip all lives matter
And Black Lives Matter while we're at it..its too hard to understand. Why don't white lives matter?
I think the best retort I've seen is too print out various "It's ok to be___" papers and just plaster them all around the original flyers; essentially 'AlllLives Mattering' it. Other than that there's no question that these flyers were posted with bad intent, you can look up the engineers of the slogan's lengthy-ass dissertations of why they did this on 4chan right now. People aren't mad about the claim "It's ok to be white" they're clearly mad about the intent behind it, which is well recorded on public boards.
Literally nothing you just said means white privilege is wrong as a concept.
Are there white liberals who talk about white privilege to virtue signal, deflecting their own participation in the system onto a nebulous society without criticizing themselves? Sure. Is that the case for everyone? No. Can we understand and analyze large scale societal and cultural trends only through an individualistic lens? No. Society is us. We are not separate from it nor is it separate from us; we ought to be and need to be critical of ourselves as well as the collective. There is room for both because both situations are true.
I don't care what reactionaries are reacting to. They'll always react. That's why they're reactionaries! If you try to shift the language to being about "boy, us individual whites sure are assholes to blacks" they'll just say "see, liberals admit it - they hate black people!" Their purpose is to troll. No amount of switching up your discourse will change that. If your concern is that the phrase "white privilege" drives white people over to their side, telling them directly "hey you're an asshole to black people" isn't going to fare any better. For poor whites who don't get the concept we need to be better at explaining it.
And there can be no discussion about the problems minorities face in America without discussing white people, because white supremacy (oops! maybe that's too offensive) is a primary source of their problems. We can discuss the problem from both angles.
You have a bizarrely hostile (and as far as I can tell totally unprovoked tone) about this.
Let's not pretend this isn't all the same type of people.
http://jacksonville.com/news/public...ing-rumors-and-social-media-images-prompt-unf
Dude is ex-military
Printing out counter-flyers is more effort than these people are worth. That energy would be better spent on student outreach and minority safety programs
I don't really see where anyone has been using privilege here to absolve themselves of responsibility as an individual to try and correct a societal issue or construct.
So I don't know what required some long winded clap trap rant at people doing that.
So I don't know what required some long winded clap trap rant at people doing that.
Let's not pretend Christmas ain't the most important. Happy Birthday Jesus! #BoycottStarbucks
I completely forgot about the Starbucks thing.
It's hard to keep track of all these terrible campaigns that has happened this year. Probably because they all meant nothing in the end.
Obviously this comes from a sense of marginalization among these people because of their race. But this primarily extends from them misinterpretting attitudes towards white people and their heritage. Of course, there are will always be people who will actively try to shame a person, in this case, a white person, because of his or her race. But that behavior is, and should be, largely looked down upon by society. There's nothing wrong with being white. There's nothing wrong with taking pride in the ancestry of your race. What the problem stems from is people either totally ignoring the bad parts of their heritage, or choosing to embrace them and act like they are justified.
It is ok to be white.
But it's not ok to pretend that you are being victimized in order to continue marginalizing others.
But it's not ok to pretend that you are being victimized in order to continue marginalizing others.
I mean, it is okay to be white... but imagining the angry-at-nothing-yet-everything, thin-skinned right-wing snowflakes who feel it needs to be a statement when people of most other groups face real injustices daily almost makes me want to disagree just to spite them.
You're probably right. I was hostile because I see the term white privilege mostly used as ammunition by the right but that's probably just because I live in a conservative area. Trying to get reactionaries to change by reacting to them and not using terms they don't like is pretty stupid I guess. My perspective was too individualistic.
Sorry.
The problem is, I think, that any term we use is going to get instantly turned around on us into a sarcastic dismissal of a real issue.
I understand that it's a very difficult concept. I'm aware of it, and even then I go by completely oblivious to it sometimes.
Like, just this past weekend I met a black woman who on hearing where I lived, said that she had tried really hard to buy a house there, but that none of the realtors would follow up with her. She lives a town over now, even though she works here.
I was shocked but also annoyed at myself for having missed it. See, while my town votes democrat year in and year out, it's also lilly white. More than 97.5% white. The neighboring town she lives in, literally a minute from where I live, is a little under 85% white.
I knew this, but it never occurred to me that people intentionally kept it that way, and that being able to buy a house here was a lot easier if you were white than not.
That's white privilege in a nut shell.
If they really want to feel victimized they should move somewhere where they're an actual minority, at least. Still wouldn't be the same but I imagine it would be somewhat eye opening.
No problem, criticism and self criticism only lead to better understanding. If there was a better term that got people to grasp the concept without immediately putting them on the defensive ("But I'm not privileged, I'm not rich!") I'd be all in favor of it. I don't think anyone has developed such a term yet though.
Bankers throughout the entirety of the 20th century made sure black people stayed in their lanes
The concept of white privilege is a hard sell in poor, all/mostly white communities. The town where I grew up was in rural Kentucky and 93% white and also mostly below the poverty line. When everyone is poor and white, who exactly you're supposedly privileged over isn't clear, and if you're so privileged why did the businesses leave and everyone you know is dying (of meth when I lived there, opioids now)?
Until I moved to an urban area for school, I didn't have the world experience to even begin to comprehend white privilege. When I go home or engage on Facebook, whatever, I have to be careful not to mock my old classmates as fragile white snowflakes because that can only drive them into the arms of white supremacists.
Until I moved to an urban area for school, I didn't have the world experience to even begin to comprehend white privilege. When I go home or engage on Facebook, whatever, I have to be careful not to mock my old classmates as fragile white snowflakes because that can only drive them into the arms of white supremacists.
Is it okey to be orange too?, asking for an extremely insecure (and old) orange mollusk, who wears a wig and who really isn't qualified to be in the power position that he is in.
Anyway on the topic of white privilege the best way to show its existence is not in material proofs anyway. But in actual contemporary examples. And they are simple. Explain that being white has somehow become the default. Ask them if you even have wondered if they were hired for a job simply or primarily because they were white? Or if they feel they me have been given undue credit or none at all due to their race. White privilege can easily be made real by explaning how easy it is to go through a single day of life without questioning a racial element to it but how difficult it is for a POC to do the same.
User was banned for this post: There's a mile of difference with not self-loathing and going full "white pride". Additionally GAF-complaining. Duration: 3 days.
I dont support it, but get where the idea stems from..
A large majority of progressives self loath.
Its almost like a huge bullet point for "White Allies" to hate their race, and if male sex.
Remember when Trump won?
Some of yall (if still here from the other place) were like "Ahhhh WHITE PEOPLE WE SUCK!!"
Shit..I remember (in the old place) a post stuck around for 3 days that said "Fuck White women"
Like some people would prob let others shit in their cereal and say "I deserve this, as punishment for my privilege and vile races history."
I dont get white supremacist or MRA types...but I can honestly say I fucking LOVE being a white male lol
Is it ok to be "White Proud" or "Male Proud"?
Cause that shit is awesome sauce! Haha.
A large majority of progressives self loath.
Its almost like a huge bullet point for "White Allies" to hate their race, and if male sex.
Remember when Trump won?
Some of yall (if still here from the other place) were like "Ahhhh WHITE PEOPLE WE SUCK!!"
Shit..I remember (in the old place) a post stuck around for 3 days that said "Fuck White women"
Like some people would prob let others shit in their cereal and say "I deserve this, as punishment for my privilege and vile races history."
I dont get white supremacist or MRA types...but I can honestly say I fucking LOVE being a white male lol
Is it ok to be "White Proud" or "Male Proud"?
Cause that shit is awesome sauce! Haha.
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Ah yes. This is a 4chan trolling campaign. Basically, the idea is to "trigger SJWs" by spreading this dogwhistle that can be perceived as innocent by the unaware. The people who realize it's a dog whistle will speak out on it and the messengers will claim innocence because what's wrong with being white? Then they'll circlejerk about how all these SJWs getting triggered over this innocent sounding message proving that there is an anti-white narrative in the SJW community with the hope that more young white people get converted to their cause.
They got caught doing this in Toronto a few weeks ago, dead on camera. Names revealed and everything: http://www.blogto.com/city/2017/11/its-ok-to-be-white-posters-toronto/
The guys in question were Winston Smith who is an actual white nationalist who believes in a white ethnostate and Devon Huxtable who is "not alt right but is a libertarian who believes in free speech" - yeah.
They got caught doing this in Toronto a few weeks ago, dead on camera. Names revealed and everything: http://www.blogto.com/city/2017/11/its-ok-to-be-white-posters-toronto/
The guys in question were Winston Smith who is an actual white nationalist who believes in a white ethnostate and Devon Huxtable who is "not alt right but is a libertarian who believes in free speech" - yeah.
Sometimes I feel shame about being white. If that's the worst thing my skin colour gets me, I'm really goddamn fortunate. You know? I don't think I need to be told that it's okay to be white. I don't think it's a harmful thing in this scenario. No one is doing this to me. It's just... I guess... perspective.
As a visible minority myself, part of me feels like this is the intended effect of this poster to basically to get people angry over what should be a tame, innocuous phrase.
It is okay to be white . . . it is not okay to be a racist, punching-down, asshole that refuses to recognize white privilege.
Why would you ever feel shame?
Is it cause you cant dance? Have a small penis? Say things like "Oh golly gee!"...
Lol
Haha, what other race feels shame due to what others of their race have done or do?
I'd guess anyone with a little empathy for people different to them. Maybe I'm wrong though.
The only reason the GOP exists/wins is because of the level of support they get from white voters
This is a really good post. Bolded what I think is a especially good point.
That's the crux of the whole thing. White people in America feel upset that they are being asked to talk about privilege and about race relations beyond anything nuanced - a cross-burning event is clearly racist, obviously, how terrible; police brutality and state-sanctioned murder? "well, he committed tiny crime x, so..." They feel put out. And lurking beneath that is a fear of a possible loss. Many can't quantify what they might lose, or what, because that would mean confronting privilege. And thanks to our shitty educational system, plenty of white Americans wouldn't even know how to begin confronting these issues in a real way. "It's okay to be white!" is easier. Makes them feel good. Hooray.
Fliers are how they get to rallies.
Yep. I think we need to just keep having the hard conversations. But there's something to be said, perhaps, for not co-opting mocking language. As much as I want to call people outraged about outrage snowflakes, I try to avoid it. Things like that. Keep doggedly pursuing reason* when reason might have any impact. This labor shouldn't just fall on the marginalized; white allies need to confronting white people all the time.
*this is not always the best solution. I'm not saying punch Nazis but you know sometimes you might have to punch a Nazi
This is so true and it's what gets us to intersectionality. Race/class/gender/etc in America is a weird matrix of factors but there are still levels of privilege. "Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack" needs an update but it's still a helpful tool here, I think.
I think the crux of white privilege is that as a white person I will never experience what it is to deal with the issues that another ethnic group go through. I could argue that white people face much of the same hardships of the system as other ethnic groups, but we definitely don't face all the issues as other ethnic groups.
For a lot people that is a hard thing to do. To put yourself in another persons shoes to deal with something as intrinsic as ethnicity. We all can say how we could be be a better ref while watching a football game. What no one ever says is that they could be a better Black/White/Asian/X Ref. While race shouldn't function in a ref ability to do their job, in context there are reasons it could. A white ref doesn't have to deal with racist fans as much as a black ref will have to. It's not to say that it doesn't happen, but ethnicity that isn't white is going to have to face more of this than the white one will.
Putting yourself in another persons shoes is tough. Doing it about something so core to your identity such as ethnicity is even tougher.
The fact that I don't consider being white a core part of my identity is essentially white privilege. Society is set up in such a way that it doesn't matter that I'm white. That's why it's important to try and put yourself in another persons shoes on this matter. Because it helps you recognise where the disparity in our culture lies.
The people starting this movement, I'm not going to call them bigots, are ignorant. They either haven't thought about this topic in depth or attempted to really think about being in another ethnicity shoes. The Twilight Zone has a great episode about a racist white man that gets transported throughout history to experience the oppression face by other minorities. It's a little ham fisted at times, but these morality tales are important in helping people think about the topic of racial integration society.
The problem is that a lot of people are responding to attempts to level the playing field as attempts to bring the playing field down. A lot of white people see affirmative action and racial hiring practices as racist, because it takes jobs from white people. They think this is all about pay back against the white race. Make them consider their race as an important part of themselves, when that's not the point at all.
Everyone wants a day when like me, they don't want to have to consider their race as an important part of who they are. Where everyone enjoys the same freedoms as everyone else. There is no privilege because no one sees race as important to identity anymore, because society has evolved to a point it no longer matters.
People posting this "It's okay to be white" are doing this because they think white people are under attack, when really this is the other ethnicity pulling themselves up to the same level playing field that white people already enjoy. I seriously think a lot of people in movements like these are going to look back in 10 years and regret it.
For a lot people that is a hard thing to do. To put yourself in another persons shoes to deal with something as intrinsic as ethnicity. We all can say how we could be be a better ref while watching a football game. What no one ever says is that they could be a better Black/White/Asian/X Ref. While race shouldn't function in a ref ability to do their job, in context there are reasons it could. A white ref doesn't have to deal with racist fans as much as a black ref will have to. It's not to say that it doesn't happen, but ethnicity that isn't white is going to have to face more of this than the white one will.
Putting yourself in another persons shoes is tough. Doing it about something so core to your identity such as ethnicity is even tougher.
The fact that I don't consider being white a core part of my identity is essentially white privilege. Society is set up in such a way that it doesn't matter that I'm white. That's why it's important to try and put yourself in another persons shoes on this matter. Because it helps you recognise where the disparity in our culture lies.
The people starting this movement, I'm not going to call them bigots, are ignorant. They either haven't thought about this topic in depth or attempted to really think about being in another ethnicity shoes. The Twilight Zone has a great episode about a racist white man that gets transported throughout history to experience the oppression face by other minorities. It's a little ham fisted at times, but these morality tales are important in helping people think about the topic of racial integration society.
The problem is that a lot of people are responding to attempts to level the playing field as attempts to bring the playing field down. A lot of white people see affirmative action and racial hiring practices as racist, because it takes jobs from white people. They think this is all about pay back against the white race. Make them consider their race as an important part of themselves, when that's not the point at all.
Everyone wants a day when like me, they don't want to have to consider their race as an important part of who they are. Where everyone enjoys the same freedoms as everyone else. There is no privilege because no one sees race as important to identity anymore, because society has evolved to a point it no longer matters.
People posting this "It's okay to be white" are doing this because they think white people are under attack, when really this is the other ethnicity pulling themselves up to the same level playing field that white people already enjoy. I seriously think a lot of people in movements like these are going to look back in 10 years and regret it.
Just sounds like a bunch of white people who felt they haven't had enough attention these past few years. Sad, insensitive and pathetic.
Its not that. The problem is that alot of the 'isms' (racism/sexism) exist not because of the ride or die haters, but because those on that side don't care.
Take something like BLM; we wouldn't have reached this point if in the initial spate of media coverage mainstreet America was like, "Hey, its fucked up. We need police reform, what if it was my kid". Local municipalities feel pressure, bad cop gets prosecuted snd convicted, done, we move on and watch our CTE football games in peace, lol.
Reason why that didn't happen was because of a lack of empathy. We can make the argument that all the pieces involved aren't cardholding KKK racist, including the killer cop. But it wasn't hard for them to effectively subconciously toe the party line that the POC was dangerous because the cop pulled em over and they are always right(as if they never got a bullshit ticket) they aren't racist because they like rap music, etc.
I look at it like being a man, I will talk to my girl friends and they will make a blanket statement that 'all men suck' and I don't take it personal but I know what they mean. Being a man is awesome, but its not hard to see how the game can be rigged in our favor. That requires some self reflection and it doesn't have to go directly to guilt. Problem is that when people feel that guilt itch they get defensive and we are back to the beginning again.
At the end of the day the reason much of the evil exists in the world isnt because of moustache twirling victims but because we generally stick our heads in the sand, which is why confrontation is unfortunately a good counter even if it offends.
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