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It's not looking good for male same sex romantic supports in FE: Three Houses, and that's not acceptable. (Support Spoilers)
- Thread starter Hours Left
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An entire article about how marriages are there to help the player connect with the play character. Not a single mention from the journalist about LGBT options.
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lmao not only do they have Alois have an S rank (implying he is a romance option), you also get to give him a ring to express your love only to end up married to someone else
I don't even know what to think at this point except int systems and nintendo maybe don't know queer people exist and play video games??
I don't even know what to think at this point except int systems and nintendo maybe don't know queer people exist and play video games??
I wish Nintendo would be as good as Sony with LGBT representation in their games. I feel like they're trailing behind Microsoft and SEGA as well. The weird thing is that Nintendo seems to have a larger LGBT player base than their competitors (although I could be wrong about this).
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I would like to speak to the Ombudsman of Games, personally. 😔
This game looks like a lot of fun! It's a shame to feel so excluded from an aspect designed to satisfy most players. (if you're straight and reading this thread and don't think it's a big deal... alright! weird! life is a rich tapestry)
Byleth: *gets down on one knee and presents ring* Will you be my-
Alois: Father?! Yes, yes, a thousand times yes! I'll cherish this no homo ring forever, son. Btw have I mentioned I know just the girl for you!
Byleth: -_- *sacrifices Alois in battle*
Wow, Alois's platonic S rank still haves you giving him your parents' wedding ring as a symbol of your love and then pulls that shit anyway?
Anyone still want to try and argue this doesn't have even a hint of malice from the devs?
Anyone still want to try and argue this doesn't have even a hint of malice from the devs?
So here's a thought I had. Alois and Gilbert aren't the first platonic S-ranks in the series as Lucina and Owain in Awakening and a large chunk of the child characters' S-ranks in Fates were platonic too (for one reason or another) but only in the English version. In the Japanese version, these were all completely romantic.
My point is that there's a very small likelihood that Alois and Gilbert are indeed romantic supports in the Japanese version but were changed to platonic for the English localization. I honestly doubt this is the case but it's worth looking into at least.
My point is that there's a very small likelihood that Alois and Gilbert are indeed romantic supports in the Japanese version but were changed to platonic for the English localization. I honestly doubt this is the case but it's worth looking into at least.
That'd be a wild twist and I don't know why the localization team would make that choice, especially if
My understanding is that these games are generally localized to be less homophobic than the Japanese releases.
Does anyone have Rhea's and Sothis's s-rank convos handy?
Sothis's s-rank is in fact romantic. A crossgen relationship with a longtime family friend too much?
Does anyone have Rhea's and Sothis's s-rank convos handy?
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it's really hard to not view it as intentional
like... really? really???
I've been kinda rooting against this series after the brainwashing thing they attempted to do. This is atlus level shit
Like, even if you give them the benefit of the doubt that this was written out of pure ignorance rather than with the intention to queerbait and then pull the rug out from under gay players, this is Fire Emblem's first worldwide release, which would have required Treehouse to work closely with the devs throughout development. Treehouse has already had to clean up Fire Emblem's mess before with the gay conversion shit in Fates, so I have no doubt they warned IS this was a bad idea. There's simply no way this made it into the final game without them knowing exactly what they were doing, and on top of that Nintendo made two statements to press saying they wouldn't reveal who the same-sex romance options were so as not to spoil the surprise (even though they made a statement ahead of Fates confirming who that game's same-sex romances were). Gee, it sure is a great fucking surprise to be forced into a marriage with a nameless woman after S ranking with a dude.
Yeah I know. The "for one reason or another" was directed at the children in Fates.
Did only the english script leak? Can't someone verify that right now on the Japanese script?
In Fire Emblem, are you really disadvantaged if you don't romance a different sex characters or none of your characters have babies? I remember hearing something about this during Fates but reading the comments in those Tweets I'm seeing them again?
As far as I know, the script we have now is from a datamined English ROM. I don't know if the Japanese script is out but if it has it hasn't been translated.
This was true in Fates. If you went with the same-sex options, you wouldn't get access to the protag's child unit, Kana. Most children in Fates are tied to their fathers, so a male protag who married Niles would also lose out on his daughter Nina.
Wasn't it because some were literal children like the Kanas?
You'd think but they all do still have romantic supports, just not as many as the Japanese version.
Wow that really sucks.
Is Awakening or the Advanced era games any better?
Fates was the first game to have any real LGBT rep period.
Same-sex relationships did not exist in any games before Fates.
The closest thing the series got to that with with Ike & Soren, but that is essentially all subtext.
Holy moly, that's some next level bullshit lmao
Definitely. It's as strongly implied as Ike and Soren... there's little room for alternative reading, short of obtuseness. (Legault is clearly bisexual as well, but not in a relationship.) Then there's Marty and Dagdar which, while not too substantive, is pretty clear-cut.
For f/f, Lyn and Florina is similarly implied.
I would say Raven and Lucius has even stronger implications because that is Raven's only paired ending
Basically Ike and Soren/Ranulf
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There's also Gerik and Joshua. Their paired ending is very reminiscent of other subtext endings in the series. Forsyth and Python too.
They also hint that Kamui might be interested in Leon.
So much baiting. :/
They also hint that Kamui might be interested in Leon.
So much baiting. :/
So I'm a cis straight guy, who, while disappointed that there aren't more options to date guys, is still getting and is excited for the game, so if the following comes as offensive, just lemme know and I'll delete it.
So, as I said, I am disappointed there aren't more male options, but I was watching a breakdown of the students and noted that 2/3 of the female options, and the only male option, being a part of the Black Eagles. The only other female option is in the Blue Lions, but her family was a noble house, but has since declined in status.
Now, while I'm not saying it is the best reason for this, but I can personally (again, as someone not part of the LGBTQ+ community) say it would have been really cool to see the game tackle the issue of homophobia, and "justifying" their decision to limit options like this. The Black Eagles would be more sympathetic to same sex relationships, given the future head of the nation is bi herself. The only non-Black Eagle now finding her family stripped of their status due to her not "conforming" to the "acceptable" state of her nation.
I doubt they've actually done this, but I think it would have been one way to go about this.
Again, I'm not saying this justifies their decision to not allow male options, that should be the standard. But if they did have to be homophobic, they should make it a part of the story.
So, as I said, I am disappointed there aren't more male options, but I was watching a breakdown of the students and noted that 2/3 of the female options, and the only male option, being a part of the Black Eagles. The only other female option is in the Blue Lions, but her family was a noble house, but has since declined in status.
Now, while I'm not saying it is the best reason for this, but I can personally (again, as someone not part of the LGBTQ+ community) say it would have been really cool to see the game tackle the issue of homophobia, and "justifying" their decision to limit options like this. The Black Eagles would be more sympathetic to same sex relationships, given the future head of the nation is bi herself. The only non-Black Eagle now finding her family stripped of their status due to her not "conforming" to the "acceptable" state of her nation.
I doubt they've actually done this, but I think it would have been one way to go about this.
Again, I'm not saying this justifies their decision to not allow male options, that should be the standard. But if they did have to be homophobic, they should make it a part of the story.
I'm really not interested in a game having more homophobia if, particularly gay male, players still have so few choices. If queer guys had the same one romantic option, two misleading s-ranks, I wouldn't be happier if IS took some more time to explore how much it can suck to be gay while still providing straight players with a pretty silly fantasy of romantic choice.
I wouldn't mind it if options were more equal at all. In two of my favorite games that handle this, Stardew Valley and Dragon Age II, characters, I think specifically some crotchety older male relatives, can be a bit homophobic about your relationships. (believe this was patched out in SV) I personally didn't mind because, sure, it's realistic, and I could still put a queer relationship at the center of my game.
This journalist is saying the spouse's gender is unspecified in Alois's ending. That would be better than the information from data mining if true, but, like, not enough for me to buy the game. (I would buy the game at full price, again, if the one queer guy had more appealing haircuts. I'm not that proud!) Certainly doesn't change the fact that queer guys alone not only have one romantic choice but are misled by the S-Ranks in the only two cases where they aren't a bit horny.
I wouldn't mind it if options were more equal at all. In two of my favorite games that handle this, Stardew Valley and Dragon Age II, characters, I think specifically some crotchety older male relatives, can be a bit homophobic about your relationships. (believe this was patched out in SV) I personally didn't mind because, sure, it's realistic, and I could still put a queer relationship at the center of my game.
This journalist is saying the spouse's gender is unspecified in Alois's ending. That would be better than the information from data mining if true, but, like, not enough for me to buy the game. (I would buy the game at full price, again, if the one queer guy had more appealing haircuts. I'm not that proud!) Certainly doesn't change the fact that queer guys alone not only have one romantic choice but are misled by the S-Ranks in the only two cases where they aren't a bit horny.
This game would be ridiculous even if the one guy was my dream guy (tho I'd tap Lindhart irl yeah)
Oh, I agree. I'm just saying it wouldn't have been that hard to pry 85 dollars from me!
I can't say I'm surprised that Nintendo got this wrong, but it's still disappointing.
While Intelligent Systems probably doesn't have any out gay employees , if they actually cared they could hire gay manga artists or ask Treehouse staff to help with it.
While Intelligent Systems probably doesn't have any out gay employees , if they actually cared they could hire gay manga artists or ask Treehouse staff to help with it.
while I would prefer to have characters with confirmed, canon sexualities, just going the Stardew route and having everyone be down to be with the player regardless of their gender would be an acceptable compromise
in regards to development power, it likely wouldn't require a whole lot more than pronoun swaps and adjustments for lines referencing the player character's gender or appearance
in regards to development power, it likely wouldn't require a whole lot more than pronoun swaps and adjustments for lines referencing the player character's gender or appearance
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We're trying, but without some help from the media and large demographics, it's hard to break through.
Try sending this to the tip email at Kotaku or to one of the head editors.
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I messaged Jason Schreier about it on Twitter, and tagged him in this topic, but got no reply from either. :/
I think it's because the representation that is there isn't outrageously offensive. Perhaps it's easier to respond to the presence of something bad than the lack of something good. It's not like FE3H is a beacon of representation in every other way (isn't the cast overwhelmingly white?), so it's also easy to say, "Well, what about...?" and "Why did you expect it?" That's all my speculation, at least. If I ran a website, I'd have an article about this pinned to the front page. :P
If the issue itself isn't seen as important enough, a big enough response from fans could become the headline, so maybe we could aim for that.
My hope right now is that we could at least a question about this to pop up in the next interviews that Intelligent System agrees to about the series.
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Jason is on leave from Kotaku at the moment while he works on his next book. You may want to try other Kotaku writers like Gita Jackson, Heather Alexandra, etc.
Waypoint's Austin Walker also brought up the issue in his review (and even linked this thread) and went in more depth on today's episode of Waypoint Radio, talking about how his frustration isn't necessarily over the lack of M/M options in the endgame (though of course he agrees it's a problem) and more with how the game is exceedingly heternormative to the point that the few queer romances there are stick out like a sore thumb. He and Patrick Klepek also put the issue in the greater context of the series (discussing how Ike/Soren was pretty much accepted by canon by the fanbase, for instance.)
I don't know if any of these outlets are working on a bigger piece or essay about the topic. I know in Austin's case he was up front that at time of writing/recording he hadn't been able to get to the end of the game and see how things played out with his own eyes (he was going for Alois) and that informed how he discussed the issue. It's possible outlets are waiting until the game's been out a little longer and reviewers/writers can see things like the supports themselves. (Hell, I was thinking about pitching a piece about the situation and how it sits in relation to the rest of FE, but I'm swamped with day job stuff at the moment and know I won't have anywhere near enough time to investigate this stuff for myself.)
"Yeah but have you seen our pride-ified Twitter avatar yet??"
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I hope they are. I was expecting something by now from a few certain journos, but nothing yet.
Corporate Pride is generally meaningless unless they are held to account, sadly.