For US politics and election threads

Mengy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,273
Not a conspiracy guy, but kinda makes you wonder why the right isn't capitalizing more….might be cause as some joked Trump might have done too well and don't want Biden dropping

Trump knows if its him vs Biden in November then Trump will likely win and be re-elected. The best strategy for Trump to follow now is to NOT attack Biden and hope he stays in the race, sadly its Trumps best path to victory. That's likely why he and the Rep party have been mostly quiet since the debate.
 

B-Dubs

That's some catch, that catch-22
General Manager
Oct 25, 2017
35,479
Not a conspiracy guy, but kinda makes you wonder why the right isn't capitalizing more….might be cause as some joked Trump might have done too well and don't want Biden dropping
If they got involved then it becomes simple to paint it as partisan bullshit. When your opponent is tearing themselves to pieces you just stand back and let it happen, if you wade in you risk them turning on you and unifying. It's that simple. Trump and the GOP are idiots, but they're not stupid. The media and parts of the democratic party are doing what they'd be doing, so there's no need to get involved.
 

Netherscourge

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,819
Not a conspiracy guy, but kinda makes you wonder why the right isn't capitalizing more….might be cause as some joked Trump might have done too well and don't want Biden dropping

I think the "Black & Hispanic jobs" comments, along with the "all legal scholars on both sides wanted Roe v Wade overturned," which he made during the debate were actually VERY damning and letting the media run away with the Biden stuff to sweep it under the rug is the only way to avoid having to answer for those comments.

If you examine the things Trump said, his debate performance was actually really really bad. It was all lies or horrendous comments.
 

Xorus

Member
May 27, 2024
436
Just because he is popular amongst his cult and can win in no way makes him a a legitimate candidate for office.

Im not interested in semantics here Im in no way talking about the election, I am talking about a person being suited for the job. My statement wasnt about winning a popularity contest its about running a branch of government. Of course I understand who lives here, this country sucks

I mean - if we are speaking about pure legitimacy of candidates and who is fit for the office - most candidates aren't. That is a metric, by design, meant to be vague and incalculable.

Biden isn't either at this point - and his claim to fame is the ability to win the popularity contest against a cult like candidate.
 
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May 21, 2018
2,317
Trump knows if its him vs Biden in November then Trump will likely win and be re-elected. The best strategy for Trump to follow now is to NOT attack Biden and hope he stays in the race, sadly its Trumps best path to victory. That's likely why he and the Rep party have been mostly quiet since the debate.

They're just following the often-cited and very true strategy of don't interrupt your enemy when they're making a mistake.

The media is doing all the attacking for them.
 

Nola

Member
Oct 29, 2017
9,463
Move on? Its july, it's not going to happen. Its obvious not everyone agrees with me however it doesnt mean I shouldnt stress my perspective on this.

If Biden was considering dropping out Obama wouldnt have come out in support of him during these comments since the debate.

You dont have to want an authoritarian future, you just have to underestimate how discussion against our only hope in stopping that weakens our cause.

Unless of course anyone here actually still believes Biden can lose and Trump wont be the end our democracy and the start of the worst era in modern human history. If you do believe Trump represents the end our democracy then I dont understand how anyone can think these discussions are helping



Just because he is popular amongst his cult and can win in no way makes him a a legitimate candidate for office.

Im not interested in semantics here Im in no way talking about the election, I am talking about a person being suited for the job. My statement wasnt about winning a popularity contest its about running a branch of government. Of course I understand who lives here, this country sucks
I don't really think our little pocket of the internet is going shape the landscape of US politics tbh.

I do have to question the notion that what weakens the cause of beating Trump is openly and honestly discussing vital electoral concerns and deliberating amongst ourselves the pros and cons of those options.

I'd argue that party leaders and voters not honestly forcing deliberations on these issues 6 months, 12 months, and 2 years ago is what has weakened the party and the cause of beating Trump.

And that continuing to collectively put our heads into the sand every time the consequences of those failures of deliberation occur and stir a crisis, is not going to suddenly strengthen the chance at beating Trump.


EDIT: to all the responses on my admitted hot take, good points. Not tethered to that passing thought but just found the relative calm interesting as well. Probably a bit of A, B, and C there
 
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Xorus

Member
May 27, 2024
436
I don't really think our little pocket of the internet is going shape the landscape of US politics tbh.

I do have to question the notion that what weakens the cause of beating Trump is openly and honestly discussing vital electoral concerns and deliberating amongst ourselves the pros and cons of those options.

I'd argue that party leaders and voters not honestly forcing deliberations on these issues 6 months, 12 months, and 2 years ago is what has weakened the party and the cause of beating Trump.

And that continuing to collectively put our heads into the sand every time the consequences of those failures of deliberation occur and stir a crisis, is not going to suddenly strengthen the chance at beating Trump.

Ironically enough, not discussing honestly enough Biden's ability to handle a debate by his campaign is precisely what has landed us in this mess.

That raises a great idea - let's just continue to not discuss things. Nothing bad could possibly happen from now until the election if we just stopped talking about it.
 

julian

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,752
I think the "Black & Hispanic jobs" comments, along with the "all legal scholars on both sides wanted Roe v Wade overturned," which he made during the debate were actually VERY damning and letting the media run away with the Biden stuff to sweep it under the rug is the only way to avoid having to answer for those comments.

If you examine the things Trump said, his debate performance was actually really really bad. It was all lies or horrendous comments.
I heard Anderson Cooper counter how that focus group with Latinos said they all liked Biden more by saying they actually were listening to translators for both candidates. It was an interesting gotcha because it did explain why a whole group of people could listen to the debates and none of them thought Trump sounded better, but it also made it clear that despite Biden's issues the things he was saying still made more sense.
Damn, the media has been harder on Biden this week than they were on Trump following January 6th.
No disagreement there. Though really it's Senate republicans they should have been shaming. For years. They should be shamed for ever letting Trump become their nominee because of their cowardice.
 

Ensorcell

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,986
I think the "Black & Hispanic jobs" comments, along with the "all legal scholars on both sides wanted Roe v Wade overturned," which he made during the debate were actually VERY damning and letting the media run away with the Biden stuff to sweep it under the rug is the only way to avoid having to answer for those comments.

If you examine the things Trump said, his debate performance was actually really really bad. It was all lies or horrendous comments.
It was objectively as awful as it gets, but you think the media gives a shit about any of that? Go look at all the headlines. All they care about is stirring the pot for more advertising dollars. Even if that means the end of the country.
 

345

Member
Oct 30, 2017
8,166
I absolutely believe anyone discussing replacing Biden ad a real option is playing into that very hand


When staring down the barrel of an authoritarian future there are no legitimate concerns other than that.

If we cant make our entire focus stopping the enemy then we will not win this. There is no path to another candidate that time has passed.

Obviously people here think we have room for nuance, I believe our own failure to cheerlead and unify behind our candidate however flawed is our greatest weakness. It's why we will lose to what should be the weakest, worst most illegitimate candidate in history.

If we cant stop picking our own wounds the GoP doesnt have to beat us we are just defeating ourselves.

it's extremely important that the democrats have a competent candidate in five months' time. the people in biden's camp saying everything is fine are the same people who thought it was a good idea for him to debate. why would you trust them rather than treat this as a matter of urgency?
 

NullPointer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,479
Mars
fJTW60h.jpeg
 

Maxim726x

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
13,757
If someone like Raskin is going on national TV to say that the party will rally around whomever the party chooses, it's a pretty clear indication that there are some serious conversations within the party.

There is a real chance that he gets dropped from atop the ticket.
 

Gavalanche

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 21, 2021
21,131
If someone like Raskin is going on national TV to say that the party will rally around whomever the party chooses, it's a pretty clear indication that there are some serious conversations within the party.

There is a real chance that he gets dropped from atop the ticket.

Yeah people just have their head in the sand if they think there isn't serious discussions happening right now amongst the Democratic Party.
 

JABEE

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,123
Why is the Justice/Intelligence Correspondent tweeting info about meetings that aren't about either?

And if it was his colleagues that were told this, why are they not the ones reporting on it?
I guess he has good sources.

www.politico.com

Ken Dilanian sent CIA drafts of stories

<p>Ken Dilanian routinely sent drafts of his stories to and closely worked with members of the CIA press office on direction of his stories prior to publication while he was a reporter at the Los Angeles Times, <a...

The past week has been a battle through the press.
 

jstevenson

Developer at Insomniac Games
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
2,213
Burbank CA
the reality is that the first 10 minutes of that debate, with Biden shuffling out, speaking nearly unintelligibly and hoarsely, and then losing his train of thought and Trump dropping the hammer on him, set off a nuclear bomb within the party.

The media is just covering it. Yes - 24 hour news will always make it seem like a sport to keep your eyes glued. But the reality is it's taking advantage of the insane fallout that is very very real, and very on-going.

And on top of that the media would be derelict in their job not to dig in and try to find the truth of Biden's status and capability, and whether or not his inner circle has been misleading the party and the general public.

You can be mad about the monster that is the 24 hour news channels, but this is one of the most remarkable and dramatic Democratic political situations to occur in the lifetime of most of these reporters.
 

Shizuo-Kun

Member
Sep 30, 2023
437
Republicans are following the old saying. "Never interrupt your enemy while he's making a mistake; it's bad manners."
Worst of all, they didn't even have to do anything to cause this damage. Biden and hubris of the Democrats (potentially) ruined their chances at reelection. Imagine what would happen if Trump disagreed to a second debate. Even if it was "just a cold", Americans would be left with a last negative impression of Biden (in an unscripted, uncontrolled situation).
 

Gavalanche

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 21, 2021
21,131
Worst of all, they didn't even have to do anything to cause this damage. Biden and hubris of the Democrats (potentially) ruined their chances at reelection. Imagine what would happen if Trump disagreed to a second debate. Even if it was "just a cold", Americans would be left with a last negative impression of Biden (in an unscripted, uncontrolled situation).

Yeah as I have posted before, it was a self inflicted wound. Trump basically didn't do anything. The Democrats are great at these self inflicted wounds.
 

Kensation

The Enlightened "this guy are sick"
The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
7,400
I don't trust the Democratic party to handle replacing Biden in an intelligent manner. Even if Harris takes over the ticket, there will be a lot of infighting.
 

Auto Pilot

Member
May 9, 2024
27
I think the "Black & Hispanic jobs" comments, along with the "all legal scholars on both sides wanted Roe v Wade overturned," which he made during the debate were actually VERY damning and letting the media run away with the Biden stuff to sweep it under the rug is the only way to avoid having to answer for those comments.

If you examine the things Trump said, his debate performance was actually really really bad. It was all lies or horrendous comments.
This, and if Biden wasn't an issue and was capable of campaigning how he needs to, he could've destroyed Trump on it. He's not up for it.

The fact they don't have wall to wall media appearances since then says a lot.
 

Dyno

AVALANCHE
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
14,515
Damn, the media has been harder on Biden this week than they were on Trump following January 6th.
Working as intended then. I think it's easy to forget that the media have only one ally and that's profit. They couldn't care less who wins outside of who will make them money. Right now they're getting money off the Biden stories. If Trump gets in they'll make bank hand over fist due to the amount of headlines he generates by being an unhinged lunatic, so of course they want him back. Right now their goals are just aligning nicely
 

Royalan

Not actually the youngest mod — AP Fact Check
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
14,746
You don't think it's telling it is even being said at all?

Here's the full clip this quote is selectively pulled from:


View: https://x.com/msnbc/status/1808182359805620573?s=46&t=lciEJNueTTtjz6py_1e4Tw

IN the full clip, you see the question he's responding to is "How would you feel if there is a decision for him to step down?"

He then reaffirms his unequivocal support for Harris in that event.

But he ends his answer with, "I want this ticket to continue to be Biden-Harris."

Whew y'all are making me work for it this week!
 

Scuffed

Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,659
I don't trust the Democratic party to handle replacing Biden in an intelligent manner. Even if Harris takes over the ticket, there will be a lot of infighting.

If it happens it has to be Harris imo. I mean if it gets to that point then that would be Biden admitting he can't run again. Now depending on the reason he gives, it could mean him having to step down for health reasons. At that point Harris becomes President until the election right? They can't have her do that then boost someone else. As President she will be in the spotlight and by the time the election comes she will have been President for a little bit AND she will be way more known than any other candidate. In that scenario you can't have a chosen candidate campaigning while Harris is running the country.

In a world where he decides not to run again, the reason he gives is so important as to how everything would play out. Whatever the scenario I think Harris is best.
 

danm999

Member
Oct 29, 2017
18,416
Sydney
If it happens it has to be Harris imo. I mean if it gets to that point then that would be Biden admitting he can't run again. Now depending on the reason he gives, it could mean him having to step down for health reasons. At that point Harris becomes President until the election right? They can't have her do that then boost someone else. As President she will be in the spotlight and by the time the election comes she will have been President for a little bit AND she will be way more known than any other candidate. In that scenario you can't have a chosen candidate campaigning while Harris is running the country.

In a world where he decides not to run again, the reason he gives is so important as to how everything would play out. Whatever the scenario I think Harris is best.

i don't see how you thread the needle otherwise if Biden isn't running

if it isn't Harris so many awkward questions come up
 

Royalan

Not actually the youngest mod — AP Fact Check
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
14,746
I would like to know the context for Clyburn's comment.

Edit: Context was added in the above post. It's a nothing statement.

Right.

And the thing that this should illustrate for everyone in this thread is that Clyburn was completely unambiguous in his answer. When you listen to his full answer (and the clip is less than a minute long), he is absolutely clear in his position. He supports Harris no matter what, in this election or the next one, but the ticket needs to remain Biden-Harris. In no way can his answer be honestly construed as waffling, especially when taking in how the question itself was worded.

So that means we're now at the point where people are chopping up sentences to pull things out of context to further a narrative. That's not honest, that's not above-board reporting, it is absolutely motivated.

And y'all need to do your due diligence.
 

Watershed

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,053
If it happens it has to be Harris imo. I mean if it gets to that point then that would be Biden admitting he can't run again. Now depending on the reason he gives, it could mean him having to step down for health reasons. At that point Harris becomes President until the election right? They can't have her do that then boost someone else. As President she will be in the spotlight and by the time the election comes she will have been President for a little bit AND she will be way more known than any other candidate. In that scenario you can't have a chosen candidate campaigning while Harris is running the country.

In a world where he decides not to run again, the reason he gives is so important as to how everything would play out. Whatever the scenario I think Harris is best.
All the chatter is about Biden ending his campaign for re-election, not resigning as President. No one has said that. Democrats are worried about Biden's ability to beat Trump in November, not his ability to govern. Harris would not become President. Biden would not resign from the Presidency, he would simply withdraw as the democratic nominee for President. He would finish his term, but not seek a 2nd term.
 

Scuffed

Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,659
All the chatter is about Biden ending his campaign for re-election, not resigning as President. No one has said that.

It just all depends on his reason. If he cites mental capacity then there is no way he can stay in. If he finds a different excuse that doesn't prompt concern then he stays in.
 

danm999

Member
Oct 29, 2017
18,416
Sydney
All the chatter is about Biden ending his campaign for re-election, not resigning as President. No one has said that. Democrats are worried about Biden's ability to beat Trump in November, not his ability to govern. Harris would not become President. Biden would not resign from the Presidency, he would simply withdraw as the democratic nominee for President. He would finish his term, but not seek a 2nd term.

It depends what reason he gives for ending his campaign.
 

Calamari41

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,423
the reality is that the first 10 minutes of that debate, with Biden shuffling out, speaking nearly unintelligibly and hoarsely, and then losing his train of thought and Trump dropping the hammer on him, set off a nuclear bomb within the party.

The media is just covering it. Yes - 24 hour news will always make it seem like a sport to keep your eyes glued. But the reality is it's taking advantage of the insane fallout that is very very real, and very on-going.

And on top of that the media would be derelict in their job not to dig in and try to find the truth of Biden's status and capability, and whether or not his inner circle has been misleading the party and the general public.

You can be mad about the monster that is the 24 hour news channels, but this is one of the most remarkable and dramatic Democratic political situations to occur in the lifetime of most of these reporters.

You're totally right.

I mean, this was huge. All-time huge. We learned in history class all about how Nixon was sweating and looking a little antsy in a debate. It's in every textbook.

This shit that we witnessed the other day blows that out of the water. Of course the media is going to gnaw on it.
 

Jarmel

The Jackrabbit Always Wins
Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,892
New York
Biden resigning as president is an absolute automatic loss. That would be complete insanity. Anybody seriously suggesting that is not a serious person.
 
Oct 25, 2017
14,047
i don't see how you thread the needle otherwise if Biden isn't running

if it isn't Harris so many awkward questions come up

For me it's as simple as the person that should be in the ticket is whoever can win, if Harris has the numbers then cool, if not then look for someone else.

But then again, like everyone has asked all week... who else? and we're only 4 months away from the elections, there's no time.

I'd personally be thrilled to see a black woman be president of the USA(I'm from Mexico, we just elected our first woman President in history which is cool), but I just don't see Kamala winning but I'm not going to act like I'm an expert about this at all and like I have seen data about her chances. I just feel like she'd do equal or worse than Biden.

If I had to say what will probably happen... and this is on the Dem's fault 100%, I'd say that there's no time left or alternative candidate and that right now Trump would win which is absolutely disastrous and it's basically game over for democracy in the USA.

I should probably disconnect from social media/news and just don't think about this as much as I can, because jfc it's depressing. I really REALLY hope I'm wrong and Dems somehow win because I can't even believe that Trump has a chance to win.
 

danm999

Member
Oct 29, 2017
18,416
Sydney
You're totally right.

I mean, this was huge. All-time huge. We learned in history class all about how Nixon was sweating and looking a little antsy in a debate. It's in every textbook.

This shit that we witnessed the other day blows that out of the water. Of course the media is going to gnaw on it.

I remember when I was a very little kid it made the news internationally that George H W Bush checked his watch during a debate
 

GillianSeed79

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,552
Biden resigning as president is an absolute automatic loss. That would be complete insanity.
This 100 percent. As much as I dislike Biden and think he's a piss poor candidate given the stakes of this election, it's ride or die with him. This imaginary scenario where a new candidate is picked at the convention is a fantasy, and even if Dems agreed on a new nominee, they would automatically lose. You can't change horses this late in the race. So basically we need historic voter turnout in favor of Biden. Yay.
 

cnorwood

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,557
Yeah as I have posted before, it was a self inflicted wound. Trump basically didn't do anything. The Democrats are great at these self inflicted wounds.
Yeah people also aren't bringing up that the Biden admin set up the debate and the parameters. This is a much earlier than usual debate. The Biden admin set this up to remind the country that Biden isn't a lost old man, while showing Trump has degraded. This is like missing a wide open layup you set up by tripping on your own shoelaces and chipping your tooth.
 

Jarmel

The Jackrabbit Always Wins
Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,892
New York
Harris is going to be labeled as a black liberal elite woman from California and the Midwest is going to go poof. There is no obvious answer to this.

Always expect the worst from the general American populace. It's best to assume most Americans are racist and make decisions from there.
 
May 21, 2018
2,317
Harris is going to be labeled as a black liberal elite woman from California and the Midwest is going to go poof. There is no obvious answer to this.

Always expect the worst from the general American populace. It's best to assume most Americans are racist and make decisions from there.

I want to add onto this and talk about the polls showing that Democratic voters' main concern regarding Biden is his age. If that was true, then why do I hear so many anecdotes of people thinking of switching to Trump? The latter has all the same age problems.

I don't believe these people are concerned about Biden's age. They're just using it as an acceptable reason to vote Trump instead. If we put up Harris or someone else, they'll find a different reason to vote Trump.

I feel some users here are making the mistake of projecting their sincerity onto independent voters.
 

Ventrue

Member
Oct 27, 2017
280
I want to add onto this and talk about the polls showing that Democratic voters' main concern regarding Biden is his age. If that was true, then why do I hear so many anecdotes of people thinking of switching to Trump? The latter has all the same age problems.

He doesn't have the same age problems, because he's not (yet) visibly declining to the same extent that Biden is. The contrast was night and day on the debate stage (or at least, night and dusk).