It Was Never Real: The Rise and Fall of the DC Extended Universe, and The People Who Supported It
- Thread starter Nerdkiller
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I can't fault you for feeling that way.
Though I think it's the least of the Captain America movies overall.
Well when your competition is winter soldier and avengers 2 deluxe edition, it's gonna seem lesser
I think he means the fact that whatever you see in the DCEU, you're stuck with. You see the crummy 2003 Daredevil, but you ended up getting the high quality MCU TV show. Even now people hold out hope for the Fantastic 4 or others to return to Marvel. People were happy to see Spider-Man enter the MCU after being mishandled by Sony for years.
But everything DC, is from one company and now, one continuity (in film). There's no hope of a proper Lex Luthor, for instance, they botched him and it's what you're stuck with.
Iron Man's movies got worse and worse and Captain America's kept getting better.
It's not really about WB farming out their properties, but rather the fact that Marvel doesn't have all their characters but may get them back means they have a chance of doing a do over while the DCEU had one chance.
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The point is is that we're locked in and we have to put up with what is to offer all under the vision of one studio, which if their output is subpar and/or mismanaged, can take a very long time to course correct, either through a reboot or a gradual realignment of the existing series.
That's not true because they already said there's gonna be else world stories, Joker movie is prime example
Marvel movies are about relating/liking the people/characters... people form positive attachments to these characters/actors through good humor, and powers come second
DC characters are all freaking gods, are not relatable, and their powers are their main draw, not their personalities most of the time... so save for Batman, the rest of the Holy Trinity are so OP and unrelatable for most mainstream consumption in movie form
DC characters are all freaking gods, are not relatable, and their powers are their main draw, not their personalities most of the time... so save for Batman, the rest of the Holy Trinity are so OP and unrelatable for most mainstream consumption in movie form
The Nolan Batmans had great writing. BvS seemed like it was a bunch of hacks who wrote up the laziest most illogical script possible just to make sure they crossed all the ts and dotted the is. I think even a 8 year old could have come up with a better idea than hey let's have the bad guy kidnap Superman's mother to make him fight Batman.
I think it's time to let these people be. They've had it rough in more ways than one. If they want to like crap then let them like if. You can't fix that kind of delusion. They've gone far too deep.
Or at least keep it all in one thread. I enjoy making fun of these movies as much as anyone, but it doesn't need to spread all over the forum like delicious peanut butter(chunky style) and raspberry jam(organic) over some full grain warm toast.
Fuck, I'm hungry.
Or at least keep it all in one thread. I enjoy making fun of these movies as much as anyone, but it doesn't need to spread all over the forum like delicious peanut butter(chunky style) and raspberry jam(organic) over some full grain warm toast.
Fuck, I'm hungry.
None of that is happening
No one minds if someone likes what they enjoy
It's when a person acts like a dick that people are not fans
Lot of cold hard truths dropped in those tweets.
So naturally, we're two pages in an already we have the usual "But-but-but Iron man 3 sucked!" whataboutism posts.
So naturally, we're two pages in an already we have the usual "But-but-but Iron man 3 sucked!" whataboutism posts.
Geez those people. If you like those characters so much just go read the amazing comics DC is printing right now, play the awesome games WB is publishing, watch many fun DC tv shows on air right now, buy the damn DVDs with animated movies. Should last you long enough till decent directors's solo movies will finally start to happen. Despite the movie universe flopping, the reality is there has never been a better time to be a DC fan.
Now this is the opinion I can't get behind.
Although I never got Shane Black. All of his movies low-key bother me.
Snyder was a mistake - At least for someone like Superman. (Like, 300 was good and Watchmen was okay, but just look at Sucker Punch)
Agree with a lot of the points - they cannibalized BvS in order to make sure to get people in the seats for WW's appearance after MoS and its issues were turning people away, and in doing so took a lot of the 'tension' (that ended up being horribly setup) for the Bats vs Supes fight itself in addition to the Doomsday 'fight', not to mention the divisiveness of Batfleck's having machine guns on the batmobile and killing people, without any proper movie to set him up as being a different interpretation than Nolan's.
And then after BvS, suicide squad mostly fails to land (I know Ledger was a hard act to follow, but I didn't want to see Harley + Joker's true love, plus/minus some actual suicide squad), WW tries to revert the ship (and somewhat succeeds)....and then we hit JL, in which the Whedon edits/character changes are pretty noticeable, and it feels like two ideas that don't fully mesh, and there's no sense of urgency with the villain.
Agree with a lot of the points - they cannibalized BvS in order to make sure to get people in the seats for WW's appearance after MoS and its issues were turning people away, and in doing so took a lot of the 'tension' (that ended up being horribly setup) for the Bats vs Supes fight itself in addition to the Doomsday 'fight', not to mention the divisiveness of Batfleck's having machine guns on the batmobile and killing people, without any proper movie to set him up as being a different interpretation than Nolan's.
And then after BvS, suicide squad mostly fails to land (I know Ledger was a hard act to follow, but I didn't want to see Harley + Joker's true love, plus/minus some actual suicide squad), WW tries to revert the ship (and somewhat succeeds)....and then we hit JL, in which the Whedon edits/character changes are pretty noticeable, and it feels like two ideas that don't fully mesh, and there's no sense of urgency with the villain.
But what about cartoons and comics? We have people that would rather watch the Justice League cartoon cuz they feel they already have their version of DC characters. Doesn't that count for something?
And what's so baffling about all this is that in comic verse , DC actually far outpaces Marvel in terms of well written adult classic stories. Dark Knight Returns. Death of Superman. Crisis. Kingdom Come. There was so much classic material. If they wanted to go dark and adult, there was no shortage of stories to draw from. So how did we end up with crud like BvS?
I don't at all relate to the wealthy white man with psychological issues he needs to get over who's a little baby ass wimp
I'd say Superman is very relatable in that he's alone. Like, truly alone. His planet and his people are gone, he's not like everyone else he grew up around and people fear/respect him because of the powers he didn't even ask for. He's got a heavy burden. His actions have repercussions on a scale unlike anyone else on planet earth. His successes are great but his mistakes can be catastrophic.
That's a lot of shit to deal with.
There isn't really one. It's all very rambly, full if misinformation, and the person trying to further pull the "us vs them" nonsense.
Like, in that 5th point the person said,
There hasn't been a mainline X-Men film after X-Men Apocalypse. They leave out Deadpool and Logan because neither supports this vague thesis.
It's really weird. Person keeps harping on "Marvel fans" and "DC fans," putting himself in the former group, and fabricating this idealist revisionist history. And why it's especially weird is you don't need lies to paint a damning picture of WB's stumbles.
Damn straight!
Worst movie of Phase 2 except maybe Ant-Man.
Hated the style. The Avengers and Civil War were the best Iron Man sequels.
The DC shared universe has no appeal. They're bad interpretations of the characters (except for Wonder Woman) and they're bad movies in general (except for Wonder Woman). Coincidentally there's only one that you can consider an actual success and it's the best one. Who would've thought making a good movie first can insure success through word of mouth and positive mindshare in general.
Justice League being a unity of borderline Gods is the entire appeal and always has been. Marvel based it's entire comic existence around being the world out the window alternative.
Not everyone has to like or get behind that, but I never wanted that to change. I just wanted it to be, you know, good.
Not everyone has to like or get behind that, but I never wanted that to change. I just wanted it to be, you know, good.
No. The cold hard truth is that we are conditioned to see live action film as the height of credibility, especially since Superman '78 succeeded against all odds. It's why a theatrical animated superhero universe has never and will never be in the cards.
All those stories you mentioned? Decades of preceding history to give them weight. BVS tried to retrofit The Dark Knight Returns into its story and only ended up undermining both works.
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Hell, Superman is probably an inverse example, where we see the immigrant try to relate to those around him on his adoptive homeworld. That's probably the crux of what the Man of Steel is. Especially so given the background of the duo behind his creation.
Which makes Snyder's interpretation implicitly disturbing when you think about it.
A movie about a Norse God fighting against another Norse God just beat Justice League at the box office.
It'd be great to have a conversation about this stuff without that but on the other hand I understand to an extent since both are comic book hero movie genres.
What's the oldest lie in America?
That Lex Luthor behaving like The Joker wasn't intentional.
The entire point of the movie is to show that the Superman mythos belongs to no one and everyone at the same time. This is the historical baggage that Snyder is aware these characters carry: An endless barrage of fanboys and comic book lore since the 30's, comparison to other iconic characters, and everyone thinking they have the last word on how these characters should and would act. It's already been mentioned there's a very blatant reference to Excalibur (1981), a modern retelling of the 15th century legend Le Morte d'Arthur. It is shown on the marquee at the theater ("Coming Wednesday") on the night Bruce's parents are killed. In the end Batman slams the spear into the ground (stone). He pulls the spear out of the ground before he attacks Superman (sword from stone). After he realizes he's become the bad guy, he abandons the spear the same way Arthur did after he abused its power to defeat Lancelot. Lois is the lady of the lake, tossing the spear into the water and then having to get it back before the final fight. The fight between Batman vs Superman is similar to the fight between Lancelot and Arthur (two good guys fighting against each other due to hubris and passion, eventually reconciling to fight the main bad guy) Doomsday is Mordred. In the end Superman stabs Doomsday and gets stabbed in return, and Superman impales himself further to stab Doomsday through the back and kill him, same way the fight between Mordred and Arthur goes. Doomsday's unnatural creation also mirrors how Morgana created Mordred to some degree.
However, this movie is full to the brim with references to cartoons, mythology, religion novels, movies, pop culture, etc. Discovering this brings us one step closer to answering our question.
Superman is Christ, Moby Dick, King Arthur, Zorro, JFK, The White Rabbit/Bugs Bunny, the Classical hero.
Batman is Ahab, a vampire, Lancelot, Charles Foster Kane, Dr. Bill Hartford, John the Baptist, the tortured soul seeking redemption.
Doomsday is a fire-breathing dragon, King Kong, a falling meteorite, a nuclear holocaust, the mythical Hydra, Mordred, the monster inside oneself.
The Kryptonite spear is Excalibur, Longinus, Zeus' thunderbolt, Ahab's harpoon, Zorro's rapier, Alexander the Great's sword, dispassionate power and judgement.
Lex is The Joker, The Mad Hatter, Elmer Fudd, Oedipus, Icarus, Salome, the Tragic cynic.
I dare you to find these references I've mentioned, I promise you they're all there, and there are even more to be found.
There are many comparisons with the Nolan trilogy because this film embraces it as part of the mythos too. For instance, the Batmobile scene culminates in Batman running into Superman, while in the Nolan version he decides to spare the Joker on his motorcycle. The Gotham football team's uniform is the same color in both films. Rachel Dawes and Lois Lane are dropped from a skyscraper. The interrogation scenes of The Joker and Luthor are accentuated in one case because of its physical violence and in the other because of the lack thereof.
It's a deconstruction and analysis of the characters themselves.
Snyder playfully conversates with the audience, meticulously painting a picture that compares mythical heroes with their modern versions. There's no denying he will steal a grin from the audience, when they realize the Kryptonite in Bruce's dream was merely a box with a green light inside: the "beautiful lie" of cinema magic. This is an allusion to Pulp Fiction's glowing briefcase, the contents of which are never seen, and in later interviews was revealed to contain simply a light bulb.
Snyder is aware that the Kryptonite is merely an engine to drive the plot forward, and isn't afraid to hide it, so he gives the audience a nudge as a reminder that McGuffins will never get old.
Another scene that shows Snyder's passion for the masters of the past is ironically one of the most often ridiculed because of the set-up: the Capitol explosion.
"Take a bucket of piss and call it Granny's Peach Tea. Take a weapon of assasination and call it deterrence, you won't fool a fly or me".
That jar of piss is Lex mocking her, and she realizes that he actually took her words literally, and he plans to bomb the place as a "method of deterrence" to turn everyone against Superman. The scene is edited masterfully. There's this quick cut to Luthor's empty seat, the Senator's terrified face as she realizes what's unfolding, and finally Superman sensing something is wrong but not being able to react quick enough because he's still riddled with guilt about the deaths he feels he's responsible of, because he refuses to face the crippled man face to face.
Hitchcock tension 101, bomb under the dining room table.
The film thrives on these types of associations, like the red Jolly Rancher pushed into the senator's mouth - "it's cherry" - coming back as the blood dripped onto Zod's face, the red graffiti on Superman's monument, and his slashed cheek, not to mention the nods to internet culture and memes (4U CIA).
To explain the reference to internet culture, have a look at the teaser scene.
The banepost was intentional. Also that whole JL teaser scene is made that way to feel as if Bats, Diana, and Lex are sharing memes with one another. Post-credit scenes are basically packaged to be shared virally after all. The critique and frustration signal that those teases emotionally did their job, while also literally providing a deconstruction of those kinds of teases in general:
Half assed teases forced into the movie at the end of production. How is this not literally all post-credit scenes that have been placed literally at the end of the movies?
We had already noted a lot of the hypocrisy of the reviews of BvS, but now the shit thrown at BvS are not actually faults of the movie specifically but of our own preconceptions of comicbook superhero movies.
All the reviews read as such: "Not what i wanted it to be." "I didn't catch all the logistics, fault the movie for not picking up on it." "The fact that i'm asking questions about the movie is somehow a fault of the movie." "The precise internal mechanics of the movie and their connection with my perception of the movie in relation to the story escaped me." "The movie presents an idea that is not only valid with the movie universe but in real life as well."
The main complaint was that the teaser scene breaks continuity, it's spliced right after Superman flies off to Gotham to face Batman. Snyder basically said, "I don't care, I'm going to put this scene in the place where most people will get annoyed by it, because everyone paid just to watch Batman and Superman fight," in itself proving that these scenes are manipulative corporate garbage.
Also note how the film's title actually alludes to the legal title of lawsuits: Plaintiff v Defendant.
It's precisely this uncomfortable reevaluation and redemption of sugary pop imagery that drives the film. "Snyder intends to resolve the conflict between commerce and art," as Armond White notes. The basic thesis is that Superhero franchises are antithetical to what Superman actually stands for.
As Umberto Eco noted in his essay, The Myth of Superman: "The hero equipped with powers superior to those of the common man has been a constant of the popular imagination - from Hercules to Siegfried from Roland to Pantagruel, all the way to Peter Pan. Often the hero's virtue is humanized, and his powers, rather than being supernatural, are the extreme realization of natural endowments such as astuteness, swiftness, fighting ability, or even logical faculties and the pure spirit of observation found in Sherlock Holmes. In an industrial society, however, where man becomes a number in the realm of the organization which has usurped his decision-making role, he has no means of production and is thus deprived of his power to decide. (...) In such society the positive hero must embody to an unthinkable degree the power demands the average citizen nurtures but cannot satisfy."
The fact that not a single character behaved the way fanboys expected just proves the point that all this was intentional (for instance, Alfred isn't a butler and Lois isn't a typical lady in distress). "I'm not a lady, I'm a journalist," she proclaims, as she boldly challenges the men around her. Remember how she ambushes the Secretary of Defense, Swanwick, while he's in the men's bathroom.
Note that the film's drive isn't just what's going on superficially, because buried underneath every action and event there's subtext and subconscious meanings to be found.
Every scene can be analyzed in such manner. For example, the opening sequence. This scene deals with Bruce's mentality, remember the opening monologue.
"There was a time above, a time before. There were perfect things, diamond absolute. But things fall, and what falls remains fallen."
The theme of this scene is his fall from grace, everything from the falling shells, his parents dropping dead, the pearl slipping from Martha's hand to the gutter, and into Bruce's dream. Hell even the piano melody has a descending motif, and the funeral takes place in Fall.
'Martha' is set up in the opening scene with a Citizen Kane homage that establishes the word as Bruce Wayne's 'Rosebud'. But, as it's actually spoken by the father character, you get a complex series of associations where Bruce suddenly sees Superman as a father figure, who then - when Lois intervenes - morphs into a reflection of himself. You also have this strange fear of motherhood with Bruce as he dreams that Martha Wayne returns from the dead as a monstrous bat (that metaphorically gives birth to Batman), but then he resolves himself to saving Martha Kent - who was, of course, labeled a 'witch' for (again metaphorically) giving birth to Superman.
You have this shift from Batman falling into despair because 'he let his parents die' to turning that into a positive condition ("I failed him in life, I will not fail him in death").
The bat-symbol is fantastically reinterpreted to stand for a child being pulled from the darkness, from the perspective of someone still in it. (Of course, in the Nolan film this shot is referring to, it was Bruce's father who pulled him out. Snyder replaces the literal father with an ambivalent light, and has Bruce pushed up from beneath).
"In the dream, they took me into the light, a beautiful lie."
He specifically says that the dream was a beautiful lie because this dream represents the birth of Batman, the bats lifting him show that he found some hope in this bat image, but later became disenchanted after 20 years of fighting crime, that's the beautiful lie he's talking about. At this point in time, he believes that being Batman didn't amount to anything of value.
"You know you can't win this. It's suicide."
"I'm older now than my father ever was. This may be the only thing I do that matters."
"Twenty years of fighting criminals amounts to nothing?"
"Criminals are like weeds, Alfred. Pull one out, another grows in its place. This is about the future of the world, my legacy. You know, my father sat me down right here, and told me what Wayne Manor was built on."
"Railroads, real estates, and oil."
"First generation made their fortune trading with the French: pelts, skins. They were hunters." Hunters, there's the inescapable allusion to Moby Dick, first mentioned by Luthor, both referring to the Kryptonite and to Superman himself.
"Among the fishes, a whale!" He exclaims, as he handles a blue ball as if the whole world was at his command. There's also a brief shot of a hole in the wall during the brutal fight scene between the two namesakes of the movie. We can compare Bruce's hunter thirst for revenge and rage to Ahab.
Also, during the Capitol explosion, there's a picture of his father behind him, as he witnesses the horrors that this god has brought upon the world, so he immediately decides to steal the Kryptonite because he feels the weight of his legacy and that he should take matters into his own hands.
The Metropolis scene expands this idea of Bruce's fall from grace by showing how he lost his way (he steps into a smoke cloud and becomes disoriented, he walks past a horse walking aimlessly, hammering us with this idea of losing our way). This scene basically shows how he started hating Superman, when a cross-shaped beam (representing Gods being a danger for men) almost kills the little girl. Then he finds out she's an orphan too, so he projects himself in her, and stares at Superman with hate, basically blaming him for his parents' death which we still have fresh in our minds.
The last shot reveals Bruce's company logo torn apart beside him, his ideals and optimism have been shattered by a world that has become too big to save.
Also the whole speech at Wayne Manor reveals that he feels that he isn't living up to his parents' legacy, and that he owes them, because he hasn't accomplished anything of value by being Batman for 20 years.
Another important symbol used throughout the movie is the horse. One theme that hasn't been discussed enough though, is the importance of the horse and the carriage. As it was already mentioned, the first time it appears is when Bruce dives into the smoke cloud, and he sees a horse wandering aimlessly, symbolizing Bruce losing his way. Next comes Lex's speech about the red capes, an allusion to Paul Revere warning the citizens that the redcoats were about to attack. "One if by land, two if by air." (he imitates the horses' galloping sound with his fingers) So to Lex, the horses represent a threat to humanity (when in reality they symbolize cooperation and fraternity). The next time we see the horses is during the Capitol explosion, after it happens a horse in the entrance is startled and stands on its hind legs, announcing the start of a conflict. It's during this scene that Bruce decides that Superman has become an immediate threat to humanity so its time to take measures. The drowning horses in Jonathan Kent's story symbolize that even with good intentions harm may come to the ones we love. Supes is still coping with the guilt of the deaths from the world engine incident, and his father teaches him that the best way of dealing with the guilt is searching for the love of his kindred. Next, Superman thrusts the spear in the same way a knight would do so charging while riding a horse with a lance, and he sacrifices himself (yes, we know you're all tired of being hammered with Christ figures, but it's impossible to tell the story of one without referencing the other). Finally, in the funeral scene, two white horses walk side by side pulling Superman's casket, symbolizing that finally humanity is striving for cooperation. Also, five jets fly above the casket in a V formation (the Missing Man Formation), and one breaks formation and flies offscreen.
Another scene worth mentioning because of its buried subtext is the tub scene between Clark and Lois, which gives us an idea of their character development.
Baptism is implied in the scene, but in this moment in time they aren't being truly honest with each other. Note how when Clark arrives Lois rushes to hide the diary's bullet. Still this scene shows intimacy because Clark removes his glasses (sex is also implied by comparing an orgasm with the water splashing onto Clark's glasses), and promises her faithfulness by giving her a rose (which is juxtaposed with Bruce bringing flowers to his mother's grave).
Still they aren't cleansed yet because they are riddled with doubt about their relationship. "I don't know if it's possible (...)for you to love me and be you".
Later, at the workplace Perry White proclaims within earshot distance of both, "End of love affair with man in the sky? There's a cut to Lois giving a glance at Clark's direction, both still having doubts.
Finally, Clark keeps that promise when he hears her drowning and rushes to save her, even when the fate of the world is at peril. Still, if he hadn't rushed in to save her, he wouldn't have been able to retrieve the spear, the only thing capable of destroying evil. So the baptism is truly performed then.
He smiles at her and says: "This is my world. YOU are my world." He fulfills his promise and stays true to her, remaining by her side and protecting her from everything. Lois tries to stop him, fully understanding what he's about to do, regretting ever having doubted him.
Notice how Lex is performing blood sacrifices in a pagan temple. And he finally summons a sacrilegious deity (Steppenwolf/Baphomet). Note how being submerged in water implies baptism. He's being baptized alright, but in murky impure water.
As already mentioned, the objective of the film is to prove that Superman isn't an all-powerful god. Lex succeeds, Batman and the world finally see his humanity and vulnerable side.
Demons come from the sky: Superman flies to the top of Lex's tower to face the demon. Think about Superman's monument, it's reaching down on people from above. This causes people to fear and hate him, an all-powerful god can become a tyrant after all (this is foreshadowed on Bruce's nightmare and by Flash).
After his sacrifice to humanity, people start seeing him in a different light. He's not supposed to be adored, he's supposed to inspire people. The monument destroyed by Doomsday (remember him smashing the pillar with the names of the people he failed to save on his head?) is replaced by a simple plate at ground level that reads: If you seek my monument look around you. Final scene: dirt rising from the ground, mirroring the opening sequence of little Bruce being lifted by bats. Batman's faith in moral absolutes is restored too.
"Men are still good. We fight, we kill, we betray one another. But we can rebuild, we can do better. We will, we have to."
A common mistake is assuming that Snyder wants to portray Superman as a God with the religious imagery.
Instead, he uses it to portray how people around him see him, not what the real Superman is really like. The scene of the flood and the fire rescue gain more weight when you think about troubled Clark knowing that people regard him as a deity, and this is a central theme to consider in order to understand his inner struggle, and the huge burden that his powers entail.
This use of religious imagery remains consistent since Man of Steel. Whenever the religious imagery appears, it should be interpreted from Clark's point of view.. A lot of his internal struggle is caused by the fact that he knows he shouldn't be seen as a deity.. The scene where he talks with the priest is a perfect example of this.
The priest calmly tries talks to him like he would anyone looking to confess, even if the whole world's fate is at stake and might depend on what he says to Clark. Yet it's clear by his face how awed, and how this is beyond him. People often forget that this version of Superman is simply a man, and claim that Snyder doesn't understand the character. At this point in his arc, Superman is merely a boy trying to find his place in the world. How his fight with Batman escalated in violence is often criticized.
The point is that they're still "MMM BOYS" "(...) with no natural inclination to share." Only when the maternal figures of Lois and Diana intervene, they learn to cooperate. "Boys share too."
He's flawed, and this time it's personal, his priority is to save his mother.
He sees that Batman isn't willing to listen, plus gets angry after he's attacked with the high-pitched emitter and minigun (he does show pain, he bends down with the sound and visibly covers himself from the gun).
So now think of his frame of mind, he doesn't have much time, and this guy is being a dick, so it's probably the best thing to rough him up a little and then talk to him.
"Not everyone stays good in this world, Lois." "If I wanted it you'd be dead already."
Also remember that Lex has been sending messages to Clark for him to see Batman as a threat (he receives photographs at the Daily Planet with one of the guys Bruce branded, and is visibly angry at him).
So things escalate so quickly that Superman just tries to get over with this thing fast and easy, but he doesn't count on being hit with the Kryptonite, at this point it's just a fight for his life.
It makes sense from a thematic point of view too, Man of Steel was about the (premature) birth of Superman, even the World Engine is akin to the forceps that the Kryptonians used to force him to don the name before it was time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3SLLEzkG8chttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rdc6QjBNOOU
Batman's frantic strings fit perfectly with his state of mind. Zimmer mixes in a hint of Diana's cello in Batman's' theme whenever they share a glance the first time they meet at the charity event. It happens when she looks over her shoulder and when Bruce discovers that she stole his drive.
They are posed in specific ways all the time and flow together and apart as in a dance. Note also that the first time they meet, Diana's wearing a dress with her back exposed, and glances over her shoulder, signaling the need to cooperate between the two and that ultimately they'll have to watch their backs.
The scene where she tells him that she didn't stole her drive is an homage to Eyes Wide Shut too, with music from Shastakovich's Jazz Suite #2..
Diana's theme's time signature is 7/8s. This time signature is often used in Greek folk music, and the electric cello mixed with the drums really gives it a modern/ancient warrior feel.
Clark and Lois' love theme appears in the bath scene, when he saves her from the fall, and when he rushes to save her from drowning even when the whole world's fate is at stake. It goes on par with the progression of both. First they have doubts about how their relationship would work, and he makes her a promise with the rose. He fulfills it when he realizes that she is his world, and is willing to sacrifice himself for her.
For closure, here's an interesting analysis of Lex's character, one of the villains in recent memory worthy of being psychologically analyzed to uncover modern society's failures and triumphs.
He represents the craven millennium, a cynical version of Mark Zuckerberg, even his office has a basketball court to remind us of Google, Apple, or Facebook's headquarters; he's also a faithful representation of a the average Redditor, which makes things even more uncomfortable.
People asking why he made Doomsday, think about the creation scenes -- how he cries when examining Zod. The Greek Icarus flew too close to the sun and fell, Zod and the other Kryptonians came across the universe simply to restore their people. Yet Superman struck them down, in Lex's eyes, to cement his status as a god. He gives the genesis chamber his own DNA and weeps viewing the lethal results of Superman's righteousness. "If God is all-good, then he cannot be all-powerful" Lex manically laments as he remembers the abuses of his father. So if the super man's intentions for humanity are so supremely pure that he would act as destroyer for his own race, then there is no way he will never live up to them.
The largest departure from comic book Lex Luthor is that he is no longer antagonizing Superman out of jealousy, beneath it all is a despair that Superman cannot fulfill the promise he made to this world.
By his interaction with the ship and Zod, Lex is more a bridge between 2 worlds than Superman will ever be. After Zod is reborn, Lex reaches out to embrace him. Mad scientist Lex Luthor is more a spiritualist as the ghost of Krypton arises to meet him. The worlds torn asunder by Superman, rather explicitly or implicitly, are linked by a shared experience of moral objectivism.
Zod's unerring beliefs could not coexist with the Superman the same as tumultuous nature of humanity cannot. "If man won't kill God, then the devil will do it", there's double meaning: first off, Batman failed to end the Superman, but more importantly, Superman refused to give up his goodness - his godliness - viewing the underbelly of mankind. Batman's character arc in this movie is remembering that moral absolutes do still exist, then Lex's arc is attempting to prove to the world that they do as well.
He never thought Superman would kill Batman. A layman would view Lex's catalog of metahuman files as brought on by paranoia. "The oldest lie in America is that power can be innocent" -- think of this of the objectivist scale, not the relativist one. These extraordinary people Lex catalogued cannot simply exist and be complacent, they factually must be like Superman as either savior or destroyer. Remember that despite aiding mankind, Prometheus was no man. Yet Lex's greatest fear is not that Olympus will succeed in stopping Prometheus - Superman has already brought down Olympus -, it's that humanity will. That necessitates the creation of Doomsday, the devil, a being rising against its destroyer. If Superman exists and is godly, then the devil must exist. If life is given to mankind by Prometheus, then anti-life must be given as well. This, of course, perfectly ties together with the coming of Darkseid. In that deleted scene, he prays before Darkseid's church. Zack Snyder's Lex Luthor does not hate Superman. His villainy comes from believing in him the most out of anyone on the planet.
Because in 1 film they wanted to combine the stories of Introducing the new Batman, Making him Fight Superman, Introduce Wonder Woman, create the Trinity, Introduced Lex Luthor, Setup the new Justice League Film, Doomsday kills Superman story line, Introduce the Mother Boxes, Aquaman, Cyborg, The Flash, hint at Darkseid, etc.
ONE FILM?@?!?@!
Like, I love Man of Steel, it's polarizing though
I think BvS is not a good movie
I hate SS more than any movie I have watched
I think Wonder Woman is very very meh
I think JL is bad
The one thing that shocked me through the years is the amount of people saying that BvS was this smart movie that people didn't get, get that shit out of here please
I think BvS is not a good movie
I hate SS more than any movie I have watched
I think Wonder Woman is very very meh
I think JL is bad
The one thing that shocked me through the years is the amount of people saying that BvS was this smart movie that people didn't get, get that shit out of here please
How can someome write this with a straight face? Six key factors that all led to a crisis point in DC fandom?
I remember when the rumor was BvS would be split into two films. Would've fixed many (but not all!) problems with just that.
Also this.
This brings up a bunch of good points but really kinda fails to put them into something coherent by the end. Maybe some people are just assholes and having their favourite funny pages turned into Snyder's self-important bullshit is messing with their heads.
Well now you know where you went wrong in life.
Well now you know where you went wrong in life.
I think TDK's success went to WB's head too. Couple that with Snyder's response to Thor getting a movie (Thor???), I get the feeling they were overconfident in the fame of their 'trinity', of the prestige (heheh) afforded by TDK, and just underestimated the difficulty of replicating Marvel's formula. 'Nahh it'll be easy. Let Snyder handle it' 'Script isn't the best? We'll go ahead anyway.' 'Affleck says it isn't good enough? Fine let him tweak it'