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IronFalcon1997

One Winged Slayer
Member
Jun 11, 2018
1,799
I know there are some people who say that Breath of the Wild isn't unique to other open-world games, it just does what they did in a Zelda world. I would honestly have to disagree. No other game, open-world or not, has pulled me in and immersed me in itself like that game has. No other game has made me love every second of it, even when I'm frustrated at how hard it is to see in the Hebra region or how many times I've died fighting a Lynel. The week after it came out was spring break at my university, so I played it a lot then. It pulled me in so much that I looked at my phone after what felt like an hour to see that it was 5:00 in the morning! I never do that with games, even if I do get addicted.

Breath of the Wild is special because it knows exactly when to throw things at you and when to let you breath and watch the peaceful nature around you. It makes everything a decision except for the first four shrines and fighting Gabon, so everything is your choice. I loved every bit of it because not only is the world masterfully designed with charming beauty and hidden things everywhere, but also because I wasn't forced to do anything I didn't want to do. Everything was my decision and, because I wasn't forced to go or see anything, my own discovery and personal adventure.

The narrative shines not necessarily in the cutscenes, although those are great, but in the world through carefully placed environmental storytelling. The themes of sorrow and determination to make up for your mistakes is ingrained into the emotional core of the game, making this beautiful and somewhat cheery world more somber and contemplative without sacrificing the joy that is Zelda.

Skyrim can't hook me like this and neither can Assassin's Creed or any other game, even open-world, that I've played. Breath of the Wild is a special game, and the fact that it has received so many accolades and hasn't been already turned on by a relatively fickle fan base is testament to that.
 

kittens

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,237
I was always pretty critical of OOT and never gave it the GOAT crown. I loved the game, but it wasn't really what I wanted from 3D Zelda.
 

PaulloDEC

Visited by Knack
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,433
Australia
The term GOAT is dumb, because it implies that excellence in the gaming world is like a race, where there's always one and only one title in the top spot.

Excellence in gaming is more like a hall of fame; a flat structure where all of the greats are on the same level. Doom is a great. Ocarina is a great. They do different things, so one isn't ahead of the other.

There is no GOAT.
 

RedSwirl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,071
An interesting game to consider in this conversation I think is System Shock 2. It came out just a year after OOT and is arguably also very influential to a lot of more famous first person games being made today. It's the direct spiritual predecessor to BioShock, had pretty much the same brand of environmental storytelling, and was probably an important step in the development of the first-person action RPGs that are popular today. The progenitor of all those was Ultima Underworld, but I picked SS2 because firstly, as I said, it's much closer to OOT time-wise, but secondly because I think it holds up much better today.

The only thing about SS2 that's outdated is its graphics. OOT's gameplay and controls and whatnot have been iterated on multiple times in the 20 years since. SS2 has also had many successors, but all of them are arguably simpler games: BioShock, Dead Space, 2017 Prey, and a bunch of those indie first person horror games may have been inspired by SS2.

Other people said Deus Ex and I guess that also makes sense, coming out just two years after OOT, being another link in the same chain as SS2 and BioShock, and also having gameplay that very much holds up today. The Eidos Montreal Deus Ex games are great but are also still smaller and simpler than the original, which was close to a full-blown RPG.
 

ffvorax

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,855
Honestly, the true GOAT was realeased just a year(?) after it... and it was called Majora's Mask. And it still feel fresh today. (and the 3DS remake make it even better with the new features added)
 

Regulus Tera

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,458
It's a 20 year old game by this point. The people who grew up with it either left the hobby or are entrenched enough in games to move onto Breath of the Wild.
 

Wackamole

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,947
As youngsters will come along who never played the game in the right timeframe, this will happen.
Nothing you can do about it. The game is probably still GOAT for a lot of older people.
 

Edgar

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
7,180
The term GOAT is dumb, because it implies that excellence in the gaming world is like a race, where there's always one and only one title in the top spot.

Excellence in gaming is more like a hall of fame; a flat structure where all of the greats are on the same level. Doom is a great. Ocarina is a great. They do different things, so one isn't ahead of the other.

There is no GOAT.
But there are GOATS
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Oct 28, 2017
3,661
Film with better special effects and better image quality get released all the time, I don't think that means old movies with outdated sfx are bad either.
The better thing about game making with time is that there's a growing vocabulary to convey what works and what doesn't while for movie that literacy is already pretty well covered.
I guess that's what I meant by "gameplay". And Image quality or framerate does matter. I don't think many people watch movies from the 1920s either. But I didn't compare it to movies in the first place.
 

3bdelilah

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
1,615
"Any game that must say 'I am the GOAT' is no true GOAT."

It seems most people have realized this now. Ocarina is still the greatest, but most don't feel the need to point it out anymore.
 

Jedeye Sniv

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,327
I don't think it's possible for a 20 year old game to be the best ever in the current age. Tech and game mechanics move on, means of storytelling and presentation move on. OoT is certainly an excellent game but it has it's share of jank and filler still (water temple and Gerudo stealth sections come to mind). The overworld is tiny, the visuals are crude but decent looking. It's been bettered many times over in every aspect. We can be nostalgic for something but still appreciate that it doesn't hold up to newer experiences. I think this is especially relevant for story based, adventure type games. Pure gameplay arcadey/puzzle experiences tend to age a little better (ie Tetris, Pac Man etc).
 

OldBoyGamer

Member
Dec 11, 2017
525
I always felt that the term GOAT wasn't quite right. It should really be OOTBGOAT. But that's not as catchy....

Maybe if it was pronounced phonetically - OOT-B-GOAT (as in pronounce the B as in Bee)? :D

Could get messy too - OOT Is OOTBGOAT.
:D
 

Gifmaker

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
964
Nothing after it came close to what OoT meant for my childhood. Breath of the Wild came closest, but still a great difference. The wonders that OoT implied in my child mind cannot be replicated, or surpassed. I'm just too old and bitter now.
 

Bushido

Senior Game Designer
Verified
Feb 6, 2018
1,850
OP is right. OoT was my GOAT till BotW came out and now it's that one.
 

Vaibhav

Banned
Apr 29, 2018
340
To be greatest ever, it has to hold up, unsurpassed.

Chrono trigger, super metroid come to mind.

Oot has been surpassed by every zelda game released after it.
 

TwinsUltra64

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,453
Cyberspace, EUROPE
It is all about opinions, for me Ocarina of Time is better than Breath of the wild therefore for me it is the greatest Legend of Zelda of all time.
I don't think others opinions should be considered as facts, everybody has their own "Greatest of All time".
 

Soulsis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,567
I think the debate on "all time greatest" makes little sense because 1) you can't compare cross-generational impact, 2) it's obviously subjective, and 3) comparing a less sophisticated classic to a more sophisticated modern game just doesn't work.

We've also gotten older and therefore more critical of game quality, and I imagine Ocarina of Time wouldn't capture people's hearts today the way it did in the past.
 

Teeny

Member
Oct 26, 2017
687
UK
Ocarina Of Time was so influential that it's status in this medium's pantheon can't really be disputed. Personally, I am of the opinion that it holds up even on original hardware but it has obviously aged and there have been great technical leaps since it's release. Subjectively, games in the same series have outdone it multiple times.

But still, the feeling you get when you first play a game like Ocarina (for the first time, at release) is like nothing else; you can get a sense of a new zeitgeist forming and that you, personally, are on the cusp of a whole new era of experiences in the medium. The leap to 3D has a lot to do with this but Ocarina really laid the foundations and you can sense it's influence in a lot of games that come out even now.
 

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
16,858
I guess that's what I meant by "gameplay". And Image quality or framerate does matter. I don't think many people watch movies from the 1920s either. But I didn't compare it to movies in the first place.
I feel like picture quality is the one that I feel should always be in the most up to date form.
Like an old 1920 movie in grimmy old film is not exactly a super experience while a restored version with just a cleaner image will almost always be more enjoyable.
BUT for some movies, I feel like something is lost by getting a clearer picture.
Like horror movies where a clearer picture means that you have such a clear picture that the grime on the old version added to the atmosphere is lost (cue scene from Alien in VHS that was incredibly scary because protag was looking at an empty corridor and you could nearly see the monster lurking while the bluray version makes it clear it's empty).
So I still think there's a place for movies even in their original griminess.
Incidentally I popped out my old Wii with all the downloaded games on it. Keep in mind that it's a PAL Wii and I'm in the US with a NTSC tv that doesn't have the faintest idea what P A L letters even mean.
the issue? VC releases on Wii were really conversion of old games AND were PAL release when they existed (so SMRPG for example is NTSC).
People have trouble with that but I feel like the point of the service is providing a window back in the past.
My copy of Super Metroid from 94 may have a slow pace but it's great the way it is.
And it also doesn't feel off like the WiiU version.
So the issue is that PAL format has more vertical lines than NTSC so?
I'm missing 100 lines at the bottom of the screen now T.T so the PAL VC games are unplayable (everything else is compatible actually and fit my hdtv just fine, Wayforward should do more stuff like LiT and less Shantae if you ask me btw).

My point is regardless of nostalgia there is value in the games in their original format and some experiences in that way can be very enjoyable despite the old age.
My rambling was longer than I expected... Anyway my point is that like old movies don't get worse with time, so do games.
Actually a game to reliant on spectacle will age as much as a movie too reliant on SFX.
I mean a movie like Jason and the Argonauts has aged about as well as something like Sonic Adventure.
 

Khanimus

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
40,281
Greater Vancouver
OOT is still so extremely well designed and balanced. But its formula has also been run into the ground by the franchise, and not through smart iteration but increased handholding and limitation.

Not only did BotW happen, it lit up peoples' imagination.
 

Premium

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
836
NC
Playing the gold cartridge edition on Christmas was truly special. I would only put Halo CE in the same boat.

Both games rocked my socks back in the day.
 

Deleted member 15125

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
417
These threads always remind me of how different my tastes are now versus 15-20 years ago. When evaluating a game, I could not care less about nostalgic feelings or whatever my opinion about the game was when I was a child.