Grudy

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,718

crazy how well trained they are to deflect and stick to their genocide-supporting messaging while keeping in the "but i dont children to die :(". Just cartoonishly evil at this point, it's unreal.

And I'll just say to Iztoc, that was one of the most disgusting series of posts I've seen on this forum. In your bullish defense of your candidate you forgot some of us here have family that we don't even know if they're alive or dead right now.

Just vote for your candidate and leave people to protest.
 

Nola

Member
Oct 29, 2017
9,292
What the hell is this, seriously, explain yourself.

Supporting and being excited for the best possible candidate is not "holding the bag for murderers".
It's possible to do this *and* encourage protests, pressure and activism in support of stopping genocide - of fucking course it is.

And by the way, while doing anything and everything we can to stop this atrocity, at the same time, we will never back down from shitting on that society for being homophobic, transphobic and misogynistic shitheads that desperately need a culture change.

This is all possible at the same time. It *IS* happening at the same time. All the god damned time.

I know you are banned, but I just have to chime in to say this is perhaps some of the most nakedly expressed example of internalized colonial supremacist thinking that I have seen since that literal IDF defender was also pinkwashing the genocide a month or so ago.

I sometimes wonder if most of the people I call allies are actual allies or just happened to exist in an environment where their allegiance to broad identities and ideologies I share just happened to align?

I mean one of the core ideological differences between right-wing colonial supremacists and social justice supporters is the belief that colonialism and supremacy are at the root of social ills like the situation in Palestine. That we prescribe assimilation and tolerance to immigrants over isolation and vilification because it does in fact work. That we stand against colonialism cause the idea of a white man's burden is a racist and counter-productive notion that is used to justify exploitation and feeds supremacist ideologies that have brought to humanity it's worst evils.

Because we understand that white supremacy and colonialism often imposes conditions that make social liberalization not just hard, but often impossible, as it rooted in a peace through injustice and control through domination and manipulation. That in such environments extremism often prevails and the sort of backbones needed to produce social liberalization are snuffed out. Iran twice had independently established democracies that were leading toward liberalization and twice they were snuffed out by imperialists seeking self-serving peace through unjust domination and control. So who then is to blame for Iran's current far right extremist government? A brutish culture as racists like yourself are quick to try and claim? Or is the conditions that have been imposed upon a culture that have snuffed out any chance of liberalization?

Because you have to ask yourself a simple question when you make these racist assertions, why is it that Palestinean Americans who have assimilated in places like Chicago are more liberal than the average American? It's almost as if the age old adage that people you claim to be a part of is in fact true, that we are not different and that when you provide stability, safety, inclusion, peace, and the tools of liberalization, people tend to liberalize.

If you truly cared about those issue in Palestine, if you truly arent just another Islamaphobe masquerading as a progressive, using LGBTQ people as your shield for making racist generalizations, you would be out there on the protest lines with Palestineans or standing in solidarity because the only way to both end the slaughter of all Palestineans, including countless LGBTQ people, and providing a better life long term for LGBTQ people and women in Palestine is to end this colonial nightmare that has been imposed on Palestineans for a century and provide commensurate restitution and support for a new Palestinean state or a unified Israel/Palestine under one secular government.
 

Nola

Member
Oct 29, 2017
9,292
Since Israel is involved U.S. courts and institutions will just overlook it like how Biden's billions of dollars of continued funding and arming of Israel while they do a genocide is a blatant Leahy law violation*** but no one cares.

*** The trick here(and it speaks to moral bankruptcy of the Biden Admin) is that it's not a violation if the executive simply refuses to acknowledge human rights abuses have occurred.

It's why we constantly deflect allegations of human rights abuses to Israel and talk about how they assure us they are investigating(which the IDF have every incentive to not do because of the downstream implications with allies)

It's why when the State Dept internal investigations we did do were pointing to rampant human rights violations Blinken and Biden stepped in and took control and labeled them as inconclusive and still ongoing.

It's why we have stopped the application of sanctions on known IDF and Israeli police platoons that have been found credibly accused of gross human abuses.

It's why we repeat so often that Israel cares about civilian casualties and echo the most moral army garbage.

Because if we haven't admitted they violated any sort of human rights abuses, we don't have any obligation or reason to withhold weapons under the Leahy Law
 

mbpm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,202
What the hell is this, seriously, explain yourself.

Supporting and being excited for the best possible candidate is not "holding the bag for murderers".
It's possible to do this *and* encourage protests, pressure and activism in support of stopping genocide - of fucking course it is.

And by the way, while doing anything and everything we can to stop this atrocity, at the same time, we will never back down from shitting on that society for being homophobic, transphobic and misogynistic shitheads that desperately need a culture change.

This is all possible at the same time. It *IS* happening at the same time. All the god damned time.
So what you're looking for is that we should shit on everyone involved, and support everyone involved at the same time.

My friend, when you figure out a path of action for that which can be reasonably implemented in a way that respects all parties and interacts with all aspects of the situation I will bow down and accept you as the messiah you think you are, but until then you're nothing but a fairweather friend. And in being one of those, there's no real point in discussing anything with someone who might flip his opinions on a whole people depending on who's in the room at the time.
 

effingvic

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,297
That poster is just saying out loud what some liberals feel. Progressivism in some aspects have never prevented people from holding extremely bigoted views towards Muslims and others. When you can't defend your teams complicity in atrocities, the masks come off.
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,928

Israeli strikes kill dozens in Gaza after Blinken ends visit with truce deal still elusive

Israeli airstrikes across Gaza killed at least 50 Palestinians in the past 24 hours, Palestinian health authorities said on Wednesday, as the military said troops continued to target militants and seize weapons and ammunition.

The military issued new evacuation orders in the heavily overcrowded area of Deir Al-Balah, in central Gaza, where hundreds of thousands of Palestinians displaced by the fighting have sought shelter.

The evacuation orders, which the military said were needed to clear civilians from what had become "a dangerous combat zone", were soon followed by tank fire with at least one person killed and several wounded by machine gun fire, medics and residents said.

The conflict churned on as U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken ended his latest visit to the Middle East with no clear sign over whether a deal to end the fighting is in sight.
For the displaced left exposed in Deir Al-Balah, the lack of progress towards a ceasefire compounded the misery as they searched for space away from the fighting.

"Where will we go? Where will we go?" said Aburakan, 55, a displaced person from Gaza City in the territory's north who has had to change refuge five times since October.

"We feel they are closing in. I live a few hundred meters from the threatened areas, and I have been searching since the early morning in vain for a space in western Deir Al-Balah, Khan Younis, or Nuseirat," he told Reuters via a chat app.

"Unfortunately, we may die before we see an end to this war. All ceasefire talk is a lie."
 

Booshka

Member
May 8, 2018
5,043
Amherst, MA
That poster is just saying out loud what some liberals feel. Progressivism in some aspects have never prevented people from holding extremely bigoted views towards Muslims and others. When you can't defend your teams complicity in atrocities, the masks come off.
Their progressivism is conditional-once they're fearful enough they end up with reactionary takes. Proscriptions on progress and a timeline for justice are always red flags during any protest movement.
 

effingvic

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,297

DNC Protesters Hospitalized Due to Injuries From Police, Denied Attorney Contact for Hours


National Lawyers Guild observers allege police are chilling First Amendment rights of protesters by cracking down on peaceful protests.

While Snelling praised his officers for having "showed great restraint," two protesters were hospitalized due to injuries from arrests. In both cases, officers used force on protesters, said Matthew McLoughlin, who coordinates defense attorneys with the National Lawyers Guild.

A third demonstrator was hospitalized after suffering a panic attack during an arrest. When officers brought her back to jail, McLoughlin said she was cuffed to a wall by her ankles with tight restraints, causing severe swelling to her joints. Attorneys had to intervene and request officers loosen the cuffs.

Another protester had told officers about a medical condition and that they needed access to medications. Police initially denied their requests to be transferred to a hospital to receive their medications, McLoughlin said. Officers allowed for the hospitalization only after multiple complaints by attorneys.

theintercept.com

DNC Protesters Hospitalized Due to Injuries From Police, Denied Attorney Contact for Hours

National Lawyers Guild observers allege police are chilling First Amendment rights of DNC protesters by cracking down on peaceful protests.
 

yogurt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,506
Considering that a group of protestors breached a police fence the fact that only two people were notably injured is actually surprising to me. I would have expected more violence from the cops.
 

hanshen

Banned
Jun 24, 2018
4,040
Chicago, IL
Considering that a group of protestors breached a police fence the fact that only two people were notably injured is actually surprising to me. I would have expected more violence from the cops.

I was at the fence when it happened. Several agitators were breaking down the fence and running away from it. It seems very suspicious to me that a few people who broke the fence never actually crossed it. There were also a lot of press around, at one time more photographers on the other side of the fence than actual protestors. Maybe that deterred the cops from being too rough on the protestors. The march organizers were also in the crowd telling people to move on with the march.

eZJlQGs.jpeg

dqI8AD9.jpeg

uY58cBg.jpeg

(the two people in black on the left broke the fence but always stayed behind)
 

yogurt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,506
I was at the fence when it happened. Several agitators were breaking down the fence and running away from it. It seems very suspicious to me that a few people who broke the fence never actually crossed it. There were also a lot of press around, at one time more photographers on the other side of the fence than actual protestors. Maybe that deterred the cops from being too rough on the protestors. The march organizers were also in the crowd telling people to move on with the march.

eZJlQGs.jpeg

dqI8AD9.jpeg

uY58cBg.jpeg

(the two people in black on the left broke the fence but always stayed behind)
Nice photos - I'm glad you stayed safe.

Both Reuters and AP reported that a few dozen people breached the fence and got quickly swarmed and arrested. I would guess they were some sort of splinter group of instigators or anarchist agitators, as often shows up at these things. I'm just surprised only a few of them ended up injured. Good on the march organizers for just keeping moving, those sorts of situations can spiral quickly...
 

GifGafJef

Member
Dec 19, 2022
1,607
Their progressivism is conditional-once they're fearful enough they end up with reactionary takes. Proscriptions on progress and a timeline for justice are always red flags during any protest movement.
I mean the simple fact of the matter is Americans will care more about domestic matters than foreign affairs.if I were American I would have no issues voting for Kamala. It's the only choice. Does that mean a moral tradeoff? Yea it does.

I have seen people posting here and twitter about Bidens moral character and respecting him etc and it is pretty laughable but I am not surprised and I suppose I understand it too.
 

mbpm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,202
I mean the simple fact of the matter is Americans will care more about domestic matters than foreign affairs.if I were American I would have no issues voting for Kamala. It's the only choice. Does that mean a moral tradeoff? Yea it does.

I have seen people posting here and twitter about Bidens moral character and respecting him etc and it is pretty laughable but I am not surprised and I suppose I understand it too.
Oh it's certainly not surprising, but some are definitely deluding themselves and should be made aware of that.

The main difference being this: those that aren't deluding themselves have a better sense of when to shut the fuck up when their concerns aren't the object of the conversation.

Of course, one must look to their own otherwise.
 

Tsuyu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,387
The "concerns" for LGBTQ in Palestinian society ring hollow when the only certainty for every Palestinian in Gaza right now is death and suffering. It's even more distasteful when your country is the one complicit in sustaining this genocide because Israel is perceived as a strategic geopolitical asset in the Middle East.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,110
A group of American doctors who treated patients in Gaza held a press conference in Chicago on Tuesday to describe the suffering they saw among Palestinians injured and killed in Israel's war on the territory. The press conference, taking place during the Democratic National Convention, was organized by the Uncommitted National Movement, which is pressuring Democrats for an end to blanket U.S. support for Israel. Among those who spoke was Dr. Ahmed Yousaf, who returned from Gaza just weeks earlier: "When we got to the hospital—everything I saw on TikTok and Instagram, all the stuff from alternative media because you can't be there—it was 100 times worse than I could have ever imagined."



View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tywixc3GLDk

"I'm not a politician, and I'm not a military strategist, but the moment we drove through Rafah with a UN convoy towards the middle area where we were going to be stationed, it became clear to me that what I was seeing was unfathomable. At the same time, I had a small hope that when the doors are open and the ceasefire is had—that when you all are allowed back in there—that it doesn't require a military strategist to realize what they're doing. They're making Gaza unlivable."

"They've destroyed the water infrastructure, and so we were seeing kids die of diarrheal illness. They prevented all medical supplies from coming in—and I can tell you that from firsthand experience, not by hearsay. They refused me the medical supplies that I was able to gather over months from wonderful people in Arkansas: things like endotracheal tubes, Foley catheters, antibiotics, and sedative medications. These were denied at the border. Firsthand experience: they do not allow medical supplies in to and children are dying."

"When we got to the hospital—everything I saw on TikTok and Instagram, all the stuff from alternative media because you can't be there—it was 100 times worse than I could have ever imagined. I have no ties to Gaza; I'm not from there, I have no blood there, but those people treated me better than I deserved as a member of the international community."

"With no food, they tried to feed me. And they'll tell you the same: with no food, they tried to feed me. When I asked them what we could do—because there was so little we could do as doctors they said, 'Just make sure people know we're here.'"
"I'm going to mention the names of some of the girls who were in medical school with me. There was Lena; she was a fifth-year medical student. There was Rahaf and Rehab; they were sixth-year medical students. There was Faten, who had just graduated from medical school. These young women were displaced four or five times before I met them. They lived in tents, sometimes in areas in the Red Zone, which meant they were free target practice if they crossed the roads. And they came every day to the hospital to learn because their schools had been completely stopped. They would take that trek every day, knowing they could lose their lives, knowing that the value they presented to their familiesas medical peoplecould be lost, because they wanted to come and help in whatever way they could."

"On the first day I was there at Al-Aqsa Hospital, we were in a small trauma bay in the ER. When the first mass casualty—one of, almost one every day I was there—occurred, we could hear the bombs in the distance. And we knew that about 45 minutes later, people would come in pieces. That children would be carried in pieces by their loved ones, on donkey carts and in ambulances, with four or five people in one ambulance."

"There was a young woman who got laid up right next to the young boy I was treating. She was 22 or 23 years old, with full-body surface area burns. She was unable to speak because she likely had inhalational injury—because the same burns that burned her skin likely burned her airway. A woman screamed from outside the door, 'She's pregnant!' So, we turned her over quickly because she had come in laid down on her belly, and somebody put an ultrasound probe on her belly. She had a viable 18- to 20-week pregnancy."

"But when we did our secondary survey and tried to understand what other injuries she had, she had a shattered [tibia and fibula] from an explosive injury. She had burns that covered over 70% of her surface area, which is a death sentence in an environment where you can't find gauze, and there isn't clean water, and there aren't antibiotics."

"We all knew what this meant on the ground in the trauma bay in the first minutes we met her—she was going to die there, and her baby would die there, and there was nothing we were going to be able to do about it because the Israeli government, the IDF, had made it impossible to care for people, to the extent they deserve. Every human being deserves the right to medical aid in that situation. She was no fighter; she was a pregnant woman sitting in her home when a bomb dropped on her head."

"She eventually moved to the ICU. Every day she lived until she died, she was in pain because we didn't have the kind of medicine we needed to care for her pain. When wound care came, in America I'd give her two doses of Dilaudid before changing her wound dressings. There, I could give her nothing."

"Every morning when we'd round, we'd stop by her bed first. Every one of us—and the Gaza medical professionals who are heroes that one day will get to be here and tell you their stories themselves so I don't have to tell it for them—we'd all keep our mouths shut and hold back the tears because we knew we couldn't do anything, and we knew the inevitable was coming. Until one day, I walked in, and the bed was empty."

"And her story is just one of tens of thousands. And her family mourned for her just like we would mourn for our own family members. And she and every single person in Gaza deserves the dignity and support that humanity as a whole is burdened and has an obligation to provide."
"I stand here, and I'll conclude with this last thought: the reason I lose sleep, and the reason we cry tears, isn't sadness anymore—it's the feeling that we have no ability, despite being from the most powerful country in the world providing the bombs that drop on these innocent people, that we have no power to stop the bleeding. So we call for a ceasefire and a stopping of the bleeding by stopping the sales of bombs. There's no reason that the bomb that dropped on that young woman's head had to be made in America."

That was Dr. Ahmed Yusef, who just returned from Gaza three weeks ago. The news conference he was a part of was organized by the Uncommitted National Movement.

www.democracynow.org

What I Saw Was “Unfathomable”: Doctor Who Worked in Gaza Speaks Out Against U.S. Arming of Israel

A group of American doctors who treated patients in Gaza held a press conference in Chicago on Tuesday to describe the suffering they saw among Palestinians injured and killed in Israel’s war on the territory. The press conference, taking place during the Democratic National Convention, was...

And from yesterday:

The 14 witness statements covering more than 100 pages come from Palestinian and western medical doctors working in Gaza's hospitals, as well as from ambulance drivers, civil defence department workers and aid workers. The graphic evidence is designed to support a request for a court order that the UK government has acted irrationally in refusing to ban the sale of arms.
Dr. Ben Thomson, a Canadian kidney specialist: "Every part of the healthcare system has been targeted and destroyed and is now completely incapable of providing care. So many people are dying from issues that are completely treatable." He said he had personally treated three children whom he could have saved if he had any access to the appropriate medicines.
Dr. Khaled Dawas, a surgeon at University College hospital London: "I understand that Israel justifies its attacks on hospitals by reference to its claim that the hospitals are overrun by militants but in my four weeks in al-Aqsa hospital I personally did not see a single one." He said he met many patients who had clearly been beaten in detention camps, and one patient who had been dragged along the ground by the external fixator holding his broken limb together.
Another consultant, based in Britain but not being named, detailed how he and a group of doctors were bombed at a so-called safe house on 18 January. He said that "the episode acted as an impetus for NGOs to stop sending humanitarian workers" and despite assurances given by British diplomats in Cairo that the attack would be taken up at the highest level in the UK, he claims nobody in government in London contacted the medical team. Charlotte Andrews-Briscoe, a barrister acting for GLAN, who has compiled and submitted the evidence, said her only limiting factor in compiling the witness statements was the sheer number of cases of mistreatment and abuse.
 

Nola

Member
Oct 29, 2017
9,292
I mean the simple fact of the matter is Americans will care more about domestic matters than foreign affairs.if I were American I would have no issues voting for Kamala. It's the only choice. Does that mean a moral tradeoff? Yea it does.

I have seen people posting here and twitter about Bidens moral character and respecting him etc and it is pretty laughable but I am not surprised and I suppose I understand it too.
Listen, I'm voting for her too for all the reasons you said

However, at least for me, what is very depressing and disillusioning is that protestors aren't asking for the party to make this their #1 issue, to build an all or nothing commitment to their cause.

They just want actual allyship. You know, like how Democrat voters and party influencers showed in 2020 around BLM and helped move that issue in a positive direction and forced candidates like Biden to be less ghoulish.

Put criminal justice reform on the map and got it into the mainstream of the party to this day.

To put a stop to the natural instinct of Democrats to vilify and discredit protestors to appease the right.

Make it beyond the pale to not support at least a permanent ceasefire and respect the Leahy Law around restricting offensive weapons exports for gross human rights violations or until Bibi stops sabotaging negotiations.

We literally just saw a month ago the level of power this core part of the party has to move mountains in record time.

We saw what harm it could do in ending an unjust slaughter in 1968 where the backbone of the party stood with Johnson on the Vietnam war and kept Humphries boxed in until it was too late. Thankfully it does not seem like that cowardice will hand Republicans the presidency for sure, but it does unnecessarily continue a genocide that could be more sufficiently curbed right now.

And especially when you see the YouGov poll that seems to indicate that calling for these things as a party not only wouldn't hurt their chances, but would marginally improve them.

Rep. Ilhan Omar is seemingly calling out AOC for her "tirelessly working on a ceasefire" line at the DNC.

View: https://x.com/akela_lacy/status/1826302251113349500?t=1D9ht_GYT-NQ4gDIG3sRRQ&s=19

Not gonna lie, every time I have heard a Democrat run that line out or something similar, all I see in my head is Biden chilling on the beach last week.

To my point above, it is such a shame that Democrats are continuing to allow something so obviously morally indefensible prevent a more strongly united party going into November.
 

Deleted member 109591

Feb 21, 2022
484
The most charitable view of Harris is that she can't really say anything different from Biden while she is his VP. So, at best, if she is somehow more willing to stop the genocide, she is powerless to even express it until her inauguration (or at least post election).

The most realistic view is that she is not really a person with strong opinions or morals on anything and will just continue the Biden policy of paying lip service to the genocide while giving Netanyahu the full service.
 

cameron

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
24,581

Over the past several months, U.S. officials have repeatedly sought to drum up momentum in the negotiations mediated by Egypt and Qatar. In May, President Biden endorsed an Israeli-backed cease-fire proposal, saying both sides had reached a "decisive moment." The talks crept along for months until the Hamas counterproposal in July, and then stalled.

The talks now appear to be at risk of reaching yet another dead end.

The United States, alongside Egypt and Qatar, have called for another summit in Cairo before the end of the week. Two Israeli officials, who also spoke on condition of anonymity, said that a date for the meeting had yet to be set and that it was unclear where it might be held. Hamas did not participate in the last round of talks, and it has not said whether it will agree to join this time.

The roller-coaster of alternating hope and anguish has tormented millions of Palestinian civilians in Gaza, who have endured 10 months of war and privation and are desperate for a cease-fire. At least 40,000 people have been killed in military operations, a majority of them civilians, Gaza health officials say.

The lack of progress in talks has also tortured relatives of the roughly 109 hostages still held in Gaza. Some have asked why the Biden administration has not put more pressure on Mr. Netanyahu, whose nickname is Bibi, to compromise.


"He's hiding behind the Americans," said Gilad Korngold, 63, whose son Tal Shoham is one of the hostages. "I don't understand the Americans. They really need to tell Bibi: Look, we're your friends and protectors, but you're going to go free the hostages. This is the time."
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,928

As more details emerge, key mediator Egypt expresses skepticism about the Gaza cease-fire proposal

apnews.com

Key mediator Egypt expresses skepticism about the Gaza cease-fire proposal as more details emerge

Key mediator Egypt is expressing skepticism as more details emerge of the proposal meant to bridge gaps in cease-fire talks between Israel and Hamas.
Key mediator Egypt expressed skepticism Wednesday as more details emerged of the proposal meant to bridge gaps in cease-fire talks between Israel and Hamas, a day before negotiations were expected to resume in Cairo.

The challenges around the so-called bridging proposal appear to undermine the optimism for an imminent agreement that U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken carried into his latest Mideast visit this week.

Officials in Egypt, in its unique role as both a mediator and affected party since it borders Gaza, told The Associated Press that Hamas won't agree to the bridging proposal for a number of reasons — ones in addition to the long-held wariness over whether a deal would truly remove Israel forces from Gaza and end the war.
"The Americans are offering promises, not guarantees," the official said. "Hamas won't accept this, because it virtually means Hamas will release the civilian hostages in return for a six-week pause of fighting with no guarantees for a negotiated permanent cease-fire."

He also said the proposal doesn't clearly say Israel will withdraw its forces from two strategic corridors in Gaza, the Philadelphi corridor alongside Gaza's border with Egypt and the Netzarim east-west corridor across the territory. Israel offers to downsize its forces in the Philadelphi corridor, with "promises" to withdraw from the area, he said.

"This is not acceptable for us and of course for Hamas," the Egyptian official said.
A second Egyptian official, briefed on the latest developments in negotiations, said there were few chances for a breakthrough since Israel refuses to commit to a complete withdrawal from Gaza in the deal's second phase. The official said Israel also insists on keeping its forces in the Philadelphi corridor and having full control of the Netzarim corridor.

He also said Egypt told the United States and Israel that it won't reopen the Rafah crossing into Gaza, a crucial entry point for humanitarian aid, without the complete withdrawal of Israeli forces from the Palestinian side and from the Philadelphi corridor — where Israel wants to prevent Hamas from replenishing its arsenal through smuggling tunnels.
 

Dekim

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,510
Goddamn, the level of disappointment I've experienced from supposed leftists on Israel-Palestine these past 9-10 months is depressing. It really drilled into me that "allyship" from many on the left is a mile wide but only an inch deep. Even here on ResetERA I've read some stuff these past several months that I'd expect to read from right-wingers. I really kills my motivation to continue associating with many left-wing circles.
 
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Zeliard

Member
Jun 21, 2019
11,470
User warned: cross-thread sniping
That poster is just saying out loud what some liberals feel. Progressivism in some aspects have never prevented people from holding extremely bigoted views towards Muslims and others. When you can't defend your teams complicity in atrocities, the masks come off.

It's here too. We shouldn't be afraid to say it, despite a potential ban. The DNC thread in all of its patriotic fervor had a poster who said the ol' "innocents on both sides always die in war" and went completely unchallenged. mod edit: link removed, if you have an issue with a poster don't take it to other threads

I don't tend to expect much here, they're even back to the Dark Brandon meme nonsense after larping for the past several months as people who care about Palestinians. That poster in this thread was banned for 3 months for saying out loud what all too many here think, and it's not as subtle as they seem to believe.

We once had an Iraq War thread here where veterans on Era were compelled to defend their service as somehow beneficial to the Iraqi people, and in the face of some going "what the fuck? it destabilized the region and a million civilians were murdered," posters here just did drive-bys with "thank you for your service," like sheep, and openly dismissive of what others were saying. That's when I knew where I really was. There's a general contempt for Arabs and Muslims that again is not very subtle. That poster just happened to say it out loud.
 
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Scuffed

Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,541
Goddamn, the level of disappointing I've experienced from supposed leftists on Israel-Palestine these past 9-10 months is depressing. It really drilled into me that "allyship" from many on the left is a mile wide but only an inch deep. Even here on ResetERA I've read some stuff these past several months that I'd expect to read from rightwingers. I really kills my motivation to continue associating with many leftwing circles.

You have to keep in mind before this all started NO ONE talked about Palestinians anywhere. Advocates were very fringe and categorically called antisemitic. So the level of awareness that has occured in the past year is remarkably accelerated and there is no going back. With that consideration I think progressives have been pretty good on this issue. AOC has called it a genocide, Bibi a criminal and called for restricting military shipments to Israel which is more than most but she has also said more milquetoast things. Omar has done the same but even she got flack for meeting with the families of Hostages. Bernie has not called it a Genocide like AOC but he has called Netanyahu a war criminal.

The only person that who has really gone all in is Rashida Talib and that makes sense. Cori Bush and Bowman went hard and well they got primaried and faced record funding from AIPAC to defeat them. So out of all the people to be mad at, the "left" aren't the ones. It's liberals who have checked their morality for the time being and also good ole "moderates." The usual suspects of AIPAC recipients that are terrified of being primaried if they speak out of turn. There is a habit though of Dem supporters going to sleep on murderous foreign policy if a Dem is President.

As for Era, the real progressives here have been great, it's the libs that fear that if they go to hard on this issue it helps Trump. I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt until the election because it is so close but if they are still ignoring this issue AFTER Trump is defeated then I'm at a loss. My skin does crawl though seeing adoration of Biden. People that do that get super side eye'd by me.
 

effingvic

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,297

View: https://x.com/akela_lacy/status/1826068189354283026


View: https://x.com/akela_lacy/status/1825746033416028355

"They hit us on the head with 'We Love Joe' signs," said Nadia Ahmad, a Florida delegate who snuck the sign into the convention under her clothing. Illinois Gov. "JB Pritzker was close by and they did nothing. Even the ushers did nothing. They just let other people hit us and grab the sign away from us."

Ahmad said the box behind her, where people were seen leaning over to hit her and the banner, was designated for the Laborers' International Union of North America. (Spokespersons for the labor union, Pritzker, and the DNC did not immediately respond to requests for comment.)

Though mainstream Democrats have derided pro-Palestine demonstrators as outsiders who would hurt Democrats' chances, Ahmad is a Muslim delegate from Florida who is committed to Harris. She is not part of the "Uncommitted" movement.

The fact that Democrats physically attacked another member of the party who is pushing to elect Harris shows just how far members of the party will go to shut down debate on Israel policy, said Minneapolis City Council member and uncommitted delegate Jeremiah Ellison.

It's just insane how normalized Islamophobia and anti Arab sentiments are in this party who apparently stand for progressive values.

These are the same people who cry about encroaching fascism in the US and trying to draw contrast with maga while thinking violence to silence criticism is acceptable. More of the same shit we've seen with how student protestors were treated and the abuse they faced.
 

Daphne

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
4,047
It's here too. We shouldn't be afraid to say it, despite a potential ban. The DNC thread in all of its patriotic fervor had a poster who said the ol' "innocents on both sides always die in war" and went completely unchallenged. mod edit: link removed, if you have an issue with a poster don't take it to other threads

I don't tend to expect much here, they're even back to the Dark Brandon meme nonsense after larping for the past several months as people who care about Palestinians. That poster in this thread was banned for 3 months for saying out loud what all too many here think, and it's not as subtle as they seem to believe.

We once had an Iraq War thread here where veterans on Era were compelled to defend their service as somehow beneficial to the Iraqi people, and in the face of some going "what the fuck? it destabilized the region and a million civilians were murdered," posters here just did drive-bys with "thank you for your service," like sheep, and openly dismissive of what others were saying. That's when I knew where I really was. There's a general contempt for Arabs and Muslims that again is not very subtle. That poster just happened to say it out loud.
I've completely avoided that thread for my own mental health. I knew exactly what it would be like. The only ban I ever got here was for losing my temper at exactly the attitude you are describing in the last State of the Union thread. It's sobering to see these blithe attitudes, to put it mildly.
 
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Nola

Member
Oct 29, 2017
9,292

View: https://x.com/akela_lacy/status/1826068189354283026


View: https://x.com/akela_lacy/status/1825746033416028355







It's just insane how normalized Islamophobia and anti Arab sentiments are in this party who apparently stand for progressive values.

These are the same people who cry about encroaching fascism in the US and trying to draw contrast with maga while thinking violence to silence criticism is acceptable. More of the same shit we've seen with how student protestors were treated and the abuse they faced.

I dont think there is a more fitting image to sum up the political dynamics at work around this genocide than party loyalist Democrats attempting to erase awareness of Palestinean genocide by hiding their message and assaulting their advocates with "We Love Joe Biden" signs.
 

noodlesoup

Member
Feb 21, 2018
2,869
Chicago, IL

DNC Protesters Hospitalized Due to Injuries From Police, Denied Attorney Contact for Hours


National Lawyers Guild observers allege police are chilling First Amendment rights of protesters by cracking down on peaceful protests.



theintercept.com

DNC Protesters Hospitalized Due to Injuries From Police, Denied Attorney Contact for Hours

National Lawyers Guild observers allege police are chilling First Amendment rights of DNC protesters by cracking down on peaceful protests.
Classic CPD being complete assholes as usual.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,110
Dr. Ahmed Yousaf, who spoke at the above-mentioned press conference at the DNC, was stationed at Al-Aqsa Hospital in Deir Al-Balah until just a few weeks ago. Deir Al-Balah is apparently the last city standing in Gaza.

But one has to wonder about the fate of the hospital and its patients, at this point:


View: https://x.com/JehadAbusalim/status/1826227988981219500

The recent "evacuation" orders in and around Deir el-Balah, (for example, orders were issued today for blocks 129 and 130 west of Salah Al-Din Street). Israel is literally pushing over a million people towards the sea. It seems that Israel's targeting of Deir el-Balah is gradually intensifying. For your information, Deir el-Balah is the only remaining standing city in the entire Gaza Strip. With an area of 14 km², it's currently hosting more than a million residents and refugees. If Israel proceeds with destroying Deir el-Balah, there won't be a single city or town left standing in the Gaza Strip. This would leave two million people without homes, shelters, or any semblance of civilization, leading to the complete destruction of society and a large-scale expulsion campaign. So, yes, please take your sweet time reaching a ceasefire, while Israel continues to destroy every single city, town, and refugee camp in the Gaza Strip, creating yet another massive refugee crisis for the region, and igniting the spark for many many wars to come.

Jehad Abusalim is from the city of Deir el-Balah in the Gaza Strip, where he grew up and lived for most of his life. Jehad is currently the Executive Director of the Institute for Palestine Studies-USA in Washington, DC. Prior to joining IPS-USA, Jehad served as the Executive Director of The Jerusalem Fund for Education and Community Development. He is currently a PhD candidate in the Hebrew and Judaic Studies and History joint program at New York University. His research focuses on Palestinian and Arab writings and perceptions of the Zionist project before 1948.


View: https://x.com/MSF_USA/status/1826374217903878521
AUG 21: Thousands of people in Gaza are fleeing to different areas in Al-Mawasi after Israeli forces issued evacuation orders for Deir Al-Balah and Khan Younis today. Among those fleeing are Doctors Without Borders/Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF) staff.

"The continuous forced displacement of people is inhumane," says MSF project coordinator Jacob Granger. "People have no belongings left, nowhere left to go. There is no room to put tents up. The overcrowding, severe lack of water, and minimal sanitation services are fueling the spread of diseases. We are unable to keep up with the overwhelming needs."

Diseases are thriving due to shrinking living space and lack of water and hygiene products. "We are seeing an increase in skin conditions such as scabies—most linked to the lack of water and hygiene products like soap," says Julie Faucon, MSF medical coordinator. "With the constant bombardments forcing people to seek shelter in a shrinking space, conditions are worsening and diseases will continue to spread, impacting the most vulnerable, such as children."

Between July 1 and August 21, at least 16 evacuation orders have been issued by Israeli forces in Gaza. Nearly 2 million people—over 85% of the entire population of Gaza—has been displaced by this war, often multiple times.

"My family and I are dismantling the tent and packing our things [to move]," says Khamis Amir, an MSF radio operator who was displaced by the August 21 evacuation order. "My children are gathering their toys and belongings so they don't get lost. We don't know where to go. When will this war end?"

Palestinians in Gaza need an immediate and sustained ceasefire. All parties must ensure unhindered humanitarian aid to meet the immediate and urgent medical needs of people.

www.doctorswithoutborders.org

MSF staff in Gaza describe “inhumane” new evacuation orders

Palestinians in Gaza continue to face overwhelming needs, including a lack of water and sanitation—with nowhere left to go.
...Several hundred thousand people have packed into al-Mawasi since the beginning of the conflict despite minimal provision there of even basic services. Water supply is inadequate, there is almost no sanitation, healthcare is rudimentary and infectious diseases are on the rise. Aid groups fear the outbreak of diseases such as polio...

...A UN bulletin published on Monday said that since the start of August the Israeli military had issued nine evacuation orders that were affecting an estimated 213,000 people across Gaza. The bulletin said the population of Gaza, which was 2.3 million before the war, was "increasingly concentrated" within the Israeli-designated zone in al-Mawasi, with 30,000 to 34,000 people crammed into each square kilometre, compared with an estimated 1,200 people per square kilometre before October 2023...

...A series of airstrikes within the humanitarian zone have also convinced many people in Gaza who receive evacuation orders that they are better off remaining where they are. One airstrike in al-Mawasi in July may have killed Mohammed Deif, the most senior Hamas military commander in Gaza and one of the architects of the attacks into southern Israel that triggered the conflict, but also caused at least 92 deaths and wounded more than 300, according to figures from the health ministry in the Hamas-run territory....

www.theguardian.com

People in Gaza forced to stay in areas at risk of Israeli attack as ‘safe zone’ full

Overcrowding in humanitarian zone dissuading those given evacuation orders by IDF from leaving, say UN officials


View: https://x.com/ReliefAid_NZ/status/1826414095404597675


View: https://x.com/rohantalbot/status/1826297322659074514
 
Oct 26, 2017
20,390

View: https://x.com/akela_lacy/status/1826068189354283026


View: https://x.com/akela_lacy/status/1825746033416028355
It's just insane how normalized Islamophobia and anti Arab sentiments are in this party who apparently stand for progressive values.

These are the same people who cry about encroaching fascism in the US and trying to draw contrast with maga while thinking violence to silence criticism is acceptable. More of the same shit we've seen with how student protestors were treated and the abuse they faced.

The same people who cry about the importance of free speech, but every damn time someone protests you get five million tut-tuts and, "not like that!" responses. I swear if I turn on NPR tomorrow morning and listen to another university president talking about how hard it is to run a college in relation to student protests, I'm gonna lose what is left of my mind.
 

Booshka

Member
May 8, 2018
5,043
Amherst, MA
The same people who cry about the importance of free speech, but every damn time someone protests you get five million tut-tuts and, "not like that!" responses. I swear if I turn on NPR tomorrow morning and listen to another university president talking about how hard it is to run a college in relation to student protests, I'm gonna lose what is left of my mind.
That's already happening. Universities are clamping down on dissent for this upcoming semester.

 
Dec 9, 2018
25,095
New Jersey
I'm going back to Rutgers for a MPP certificate program, so I'm curious to see how my college carries out the protests. I'll probably hang out by the encampments since one of my close friends have been there at the time.
 

Scuffed

Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,541


Truly pathetic cowardice. Anything and everything they can do to not humanize Palestinians. The decades of propaganda is under threat of unravelling. Israel is a colonial project to exert American hegemony in the region and it must be preserved at all costs. It's been a supreme annoyance that there just happens to be another community there that just won't go away. Resilient Palestinians living in an open air prison and belligerent occupation for decades never gave up and have survived long enough for the world to see the cruelty they live under. No one can suppress them anymore. The DNC NOT allowing this makes the Palestinian cause stronger. It's anti-Palestinian racism in full effect and although America is driven by military interests in protecting this apartheid state I truly believe the rest of the world will eventually bring Israel to task.
 

Daphne

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
4,047
Unbelievable cowardice from the Dems if they don't allow any Palestinian voice at the DNC. And it's not as though they are trying to ignore the entire issue itself since they are allowing Israeli voices there to speak on it; they are specifically suppressing Palestinians. Just incredibly aggravating.
 

effingvic

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,297
Their progressivism is conditional-once they're fearful enough they end up with reactionary takes. Proscriptions on progress and a timeline for justice are always red flags during any protest movement.

Conditional and transactional.

It's here too. We shouldn't be afraid to say it, despite a potential ban. The DNC thread in all of its patriotic fervor had a poster who said the ol' "innocents on both sides always die in war" and went completely unchallenged. mod edit: link removed, if you have an issue with a poster don't take it to other threads

I don't tend to expect much here, they're even back to the Dark Brandon meme nonsense after larping for the past several months as people who care about Palestinians. That poster in this thread was banned for 3 months for saying out loud what all too many here think, and it's not as subtle as they seem to believe.

We once had an Iraq War thread here where veterans on Era were compelled to defend their service as somehow beneficial to the Iraqi people, and in the face of some going "what the fuck? it destabilized the region and a million civilians were murdered," posters here just did drive-bys with "thank you for your service," like sheep, and openly dismissive of what others were saying. That's when I knew where I really was. There's a general contempt for Arabs and Muslims that again is not very subtle. That poster just happened to say it out loud.

I was trying to be diplomatic by saying only "some liberals" but I agree with you 100% and the truth is that this behavior is exhibited by a non-insignificant portion of liberals, especially online.

I cant help but roll my eyes as people try their best to pretend Biden did some heroic sacrifice, when this stupid old fuck had to be forced into a corner by his donors and majority of democratic leadership to finally call it quits. That 3 week period with all of the conspiracy dabbling was an eye opening period in time.

There are Kamala partisans Im seeing online that are trying to downplay the incident of the Muslim delegate getting whacked in the head repeatedly by the WE LOVE BIDEN banner, arguing she wasn't attacked because these are just small taps. Really now. We're going to do this shit?

These are the people who are supposed to protect us, and safe guard democracy.

The same people who cry about the importance of free speech, but every damn time someone protests you get five million tut-tuts and, "not like that!" responses. I swear if I turn on NPR tomorrow morning and listen to another university president talking about how hard it is to run a college in relation to student protests, I'm gonna lose what is left of my mind.

I'm surprised Kamala's campaign doesnt have "Its not the right time or place" or "greater good" t shirts or hats ready for people to buy. These same free speech warriors would help raise another 100M overnight on these sales alone.

The downfall of NPR over the past few years has truly been something to behold.

Rep. Ilhan Omar is seemingly calling out AOC for her "tirelessly working on a ceasefire" line at the DNC.

View: https://x.com/akela_lacy/status/1826302251113349500?t=1D9ht_GYT-NQ4gDIG3sRRQ&s=19


Good. Fuck AOC for this honestly. It would be better to not even mention this so called deal, but AOC had go on and pretend Kamala was actually doing some shit about it when she and the rest of us knows neither Kamala nor Biden has done anything of consequence in actually getting a deal.

I get shes desperate to ensure Dems win because of the horrific alternative but the people that fucking put her there in the first place aren't a bunch of dumbasses that are gonna drink this kool aid. If this kind of normie dem politician speak is going to continue from her then Im really disappointed.
 
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spineduke

On Break
Oct 25, 2017
8,957


Not surprised. How can they allow it, when the man responsible for funding and proliferating this crisis is currently sitting in the White House? It's a giant glass house for the Democrats. Harris has to undo what Biden has done, and I don't expect her to speak out or act against him while serving as his VP. It's cowardice but it seems thats the base expectation coming from the political class. They want the Palestinians to wait for a couple more months under the rain of unconditional American bombs being dropped on their heads. This unwavering mentality of Biden, unmoved by the inhumanity has shaken me to my core. What a monster. I can't even listen to anyone talking about what a 'fantastic' president he is. You don't get to be a hero by enabling war criminals and ignoring the suffering of millions while you bypass your own institutions to send weapons.
 

rzks21

Member
Aug 17, 2023
2,652
These last few news are so fucking infuriating. Stuff like this just confirms what a hopeless and disgusting country the US is. There is barely anything redeemable to it.
 

etiira

Member
Oct 25, 2017
513
The calculus to ignore or downplay Palestine because of fear of Trump both feels extremely convenient for dems and both shortsighted + sabotaging to any sort of progressive movement in the future. When else do we have a better time to push back than an election season, and Israel sure as fuck isn't going to put a pause on killing Palestinians while we stop Trump. We're doing right wing work supposedly to beat republicans, just well and truly fucked.

The whataboutism I've seen re:the fear of trans genocide as a reason to put aside Palestine is especially sickening to me as a trans person. Even from the most cynical and calculating standpoint, we can't afford to throw other vulnerable groups into the colonialist grinder to save our own skin, and even if you've decided to focus on other queer or trans folks as an issue, you have to ignore the queer communities in Palestine to even make this argument work.

I'm not going to tell people to not vote for Harris (and I'm definitely not shaming anyone who won't this election), but cheerleading dems right now sickens me.
 

BarcaTheGreat

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
4,166
In a few decades from now, books will be written and taught in schools on how the USA allowed a genocide to happen in the years 2020s. Fuck this is so depressing.... 40k killed.. Fuck you DNC. Maybe usa deserve Trump... It will be worse for Palestinians people say, well how much worse?


Fuckkkkkkkkk
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,110
AUG 21: "...Deir el-Balah is the only remaining standing city in the entire Gaza Strip. With an area of 14 km², it's currently hosting more than a million residents and refugees. If Israel proceeds with destroying Deir el-Balah, there won't be a single city or town left standing in the Gaza Strip. This would leave two million people without homes, shelters, or any semblance of civilization, leading to the complete destruction of society and a large-scale expulsion campaign..."
ActionAid News Release - ActionAid's Partner Under Siege Amid Serious Escalation In Gaza: "..In a severe escalation, the MAAN community centre, a vital resource for internally displaced persons (IDPs), is currently under siege by tanks in Deir Al Balah. This centre has been crucial in providing support and information to displaced families, and its compromised status severely hinders aid efforts. Forcible evacuations can be deemed a war crime if they are carried out without regard for the safety and well-being of the evacuated persons, or if they are part of a broader pattern of behaviour intended to cause harm to civilians or undermine their rights.

Under International Humanitarian Law, particularly the Fourth Geneva Convention, parties to a conflict are prohibited from forcibly transferring or evacuating civilians from occupied territories unless it is for their safety and temporary in nature. Such evacuations should not result in the displacement of civilians to areas where they are at risk or deprived of basic necessities.

ActionAid demands an immediate ceasefire, an end to the blockade on Gaza, and the full protection of all humanitarian personnel. We call for unimpeded access to the Gaza Strip to fully support our colleagues in their critical work. The international community must hold the Israeli government accountable for its actions and ensure that humanitarian aid reaches those suffering without delay.

The already starving, diseased, and beleaguered population faces an even greater humanitarian crisis. Immediate and decisive action is essential to address the escalating emergency and prevent further suffering."
Statement from Mercy Corps Regional Policy and Advocacy Senior Advisor: "New evacuation orders for an area in Deir el-Balah are impacting thousands of people including Mercy Corps' office, shelter, staff, and other local and international NGOs operating in Gaza. As of today, 89% of Gaza is now under evacuation orders.

"More than 15,000 people in Deir el-Balah – including more than 30 Mercy Corps staff and their families – are once again packing what little they can carry and don't know where they can go. Palestinian families, who have already been forced to flee five or more times, are once again left without any safe place to seek refuge. Some are attempting to move west toward the coast, but it is already overwhelmed with displaced families and there is no guarantee of safe passage across the approximately 30-kilometer journey.

"This new evacuation order could be a final blow to NGOs already working to overcome massive hurdles to delivering aid in Gaza. Since the Rafah incursion, essential goods have barely trickled into Gaza. Now, with humanitarian workers forced to relocate, they won't be able to provide any assistance while displaced from this hub of humanitarian operations. We are working tirelessly to identify new shelter locations for our staff and providing fuel and tents where available, but the situation is increasingly untenable.

"We urgently call for an end to the expansion of these evacuation orders and to allow people to return to locations they had to flee this morning. An immediate ceasefire is the only way to prevent further humanitarian catastrophe and to allow aid organizations to continue their work."

"If Israel proceeds with destroying Deir el-Balah, there won't be a single city or town left standing in the Gaza Strip." So possibly the entirety of the strip reduced to rubble. To recall:


View: https://x.com/philippa_bear/status/1818358022890025416


View: https://x.com/philippa_bear/status/1798449294833492286


View: https://x.com/philippa_bear/status/1811491830451577113


View: https://x.com/UNHumanRights/status/1803355490325283280
 

noodlesoup

Member
Feb 21, 2018
2,869
Chicago, IL
"If Israel proceeds with destroying Deir el-Balah, there won't be a single city or town left standing in the Gaza Strip." So possibly the entirety of the strip reduced to rubble. To recall:


View: https://x.com/philippa_bear/status/1818358022890025416


View: https://x.com/philippa_bear/status/1798449294833492286


View: https://x.com/philippa_bear/status/1811491830451577113


View: https://x.com/UNHumanRights/status/1803355490325283280

How can any liberal look at this and continue to cheer on the Democrats at the DNC as if all is well is sickening and — fuck it — outright evil.

Everything about this is depressing. The world won't forget about this.