-
If you have been following the news, you should be aware that the people of Lebanon have been under a violent bombardment that has recently escalated. Please consider donating to help them if you can or trying to spread word of the fundraiser.
-
Asheville and Western North Carolina at large are in crisis after Helene, please consider contributing to these local organizations and helping the people whose lives have been destroyed.
Is Tim Burtons decline the steepest for a highly acclaimed director ?
- Thread starter Mr Coopz
- Start date
Post 2000 his filmography is:
Planet of the Apes
Big Fish
Charlie and the Chocolate Factory
Corpse Bride
Sweeney Todd
Alice in Wonderland
Dark Shadows
Frankenweenie
Big Eyes
Miss Peregrine's Home For Peculiar Children
Dumbo
There's a LOT of bad in there, and it certainly didn't start ten years ago. Planet/Charlie/Alice/Dark Shadows are all pretty bad and all are before the last ten years. In that time, only Big Fish is truly "acclaimed". Sweeney Todd has its fans and Frankenweenie was nice... but that's a pretty big fall for someone who in the 80s/90s made a ton of hugely acclaimed films.
I'd actually argue the last ten years might be stronger than the 13 years before. Frankenweenie is nice, and Big Eyes/Dumbo while not great aren't awful. Certainly better than most of what he made in the prior decade.
Tim Burton just hasn't done much over the years. I like Frankenweenie and i'm sure Beetlejuice 2 is going to be good
Given his relatively small output, it's maybe unfair, but Michael Cimino went from a Best Picture winner to pretty much bankrupting a studio and ending the New Hollywood era of filmmaking.
That's Scott's entire career. He's never had an extended hot streak. It's always feast and famine with him. That's what keeps people interested in Napoleon or Gladiator 2. As noted above, The Last Duel was fairly acclaimed.
Your opinion doesn't line up with the general audience and critic consensus. Not a perfect show by any means but it has more going for it than just Jenna Ortega.
As much I'd like to agree with the OP. it's this.
It's up Tim Burton decades before people started doubting his movies.
It took Shyamalan, three movies in three years.
Try Killer Joe, it's an audacious late-period Friedkin firecracker.
But you also have solid films like The Martian and The Last Duel in there. He's just super patchy, not straight terrible.
The thing with Burton is that while his streak with critics has been dead for a long time, for a good while he could be depended on to deliver a big hit at the box office at least every couple of tries. So even in that dire stretch from 2000-2010, he had Apes, Charlie, and Alice all make good money.
True. That said, hot take, but Heaven's Gate is better than The Deer Hunter.
It's crazy the amount of people that aren't self aware enough to know when their opinion differs quite dramatically from the general consensus.
Nah Old is cool. It's definitely best as a lazy Sunday sink into the sofa kind of movie, but I'm always glad for films that fit into that bracket. It's a 6 or 7 out of 10, but 1/10 is completely hyperbolic.
I don't really get the argument for M Night over Coppola, who was the first reply. M Night started with pretty good movies but Coppola in the 70s made 4 of the greatest movies of all time. Including literally the greatest of all time on some lists. Meanwhile most of his output since the 90s has been really bad.
The Visit is one of his best movies. Split and knock at the cabin were ok
Old is a crime. It was like a manifesto against the very notions of symbolism and metaphor. I've never seen an adaptation so thoroughly erase all meaning from the source material.
It was revealing.
Sure, but just because people go watch it doesn't make it good. Beyond that, hard to judge if his appeal to the public has REALLY dipped. In the last movie his only real commercial play was Dumbo, and while it is the rare one of the Disney live action movies to not do well, it also wasn't really marketed at all as a Tim Burton film, the visual style didn't really come through.
Big Eyes was always a weird indie play that was never going to be a big box office success. Maybe I'm underselling Miss Peregrine's but it always felt like a weird fit for the market at the time.
Meanwhile, his look/vibe was all over Wednesday and that was a MASSIVE hit. I'm not convinced the public no longer want Burton things or that he can't still make hits.
This and its now even close.
He went from "The Next Spielberg" to the studio literally trying to hide his involvement in After Earth.
Burton's biggest problem is that he leaned into his anesthetic and forgot about that he heartm
M Night forgot about everything and made it about the twist.
M Night forgot about everything and made it about the twist.
Zemeckis' filmography is insane. How do you make Roger Rabbit, Castaway, Back to the Future, and the Pinocchio remake?
John Carpenter's fall is probably worse than Burton's. I have no idea how he went from In the Mouth of Madness to Children of the Damned within a single year, and since then he made only trash until he quit (and then briefly came back to make one more trash film).
I mean, the movie that's widely regarded as his best movie (Grand Budapest Hotel) came after Darjeeling.
This is like an extremely minority opinion lol.
I mean, the movie that's widely regarded as his best movie (Grand Budapest Hotel) came after Darjeeling.
He's been churning out okay movies in between the shit ones. Hasn't had a banger in a long time though.
Only credit ill give it is it made me laugh my ass off with how bad it was. Lol
This one almost breaks the conversation. It is like you have to graph it on a separate piece of paper compared to the other mentions.
Ridley Scott's career has always been up and down. Dude has never been consistent... but when he makes a good movie, it's really good.
I liked Big Eyes but I agree that he's gone from must watch to like I might watch if I hear good word of mouth.
Robert Zemeckis
dude went from classics to directing disgusting CGI abominations with no redeeming qualities. like even Shyamalan's recent stuff feels like it has passion in it
dude went from classics to directing disgusting CGI abominations with no redeeming qualities. like even Shyamalan's recent stuff feels like it has passion in it
Zemeckis actually had a pretty okay initial bounce back after his stay in CG movie purgatory. Both The Flight and The Walk got a fair bit of acclaim. Flight, in particular, was seen as a bit of reinvigoration for Zemeckis- hard R-rated drama made on a lower(er) budget that managed to make money and get really good reviews. The Walk didn't make money but it didn't cost a lot either.
Then Allied bombed, Marwen was even worse...
Then Allied bombed, Marwen was even worse...
Not at all, OP. The skill is still there. Wednesday had a lot of that same magic. I've nothing to prove it, but seems like he's just been doing the ole "let's go Aerosmith Vegas-style, take the money, sing some ballads, and run" with the Disney films. I feel like anyone doubting Burton's ability to put out a banger is playing themselves.
M. Night is a great choice. Then again, he became a darling too soon, in my opinion.
Any votes for Alex Proyas? I adore the Crow and loved Dark City. I know I, Robot gets shit on a lot but I still think it's a good quality film. I would love to see him do something noisy and grungy again.
M. Night is a great choice. Then again, he became a darling too soon, in my opinion.
Any votes for Alex Proyas? I adore the Crow and loved Dark City. I know I, Robot gets shit on a lot but I still think it's a good quality film. I would love to see him do something noisy and grungy again.
This conversation isn't gonna work if we're just gonna let RT ratings make our argument for us.
I mean, do you want opinions or the general consensus? What's the point of this conversation?
The Pirates of the Carribbean anniversary thread reminded me that Gore Verbinski deserves an honorable mention here. Crazy that someone who could make a trilogy that made that amount of money could be put into seemingly permanent director jail for one flop but it's crazy that he doesn't have studios throwing huge money at him now. Especially because he actually knows how to make visually stunning movies that look like their budgets.
Gotta be Robert Zemeckis. Majority of his work post-Cast Away is awful. Polar Express, Flight, and The Walk are the only good ones since then. Even Polar Express got mixed reception, but I'll give it credit for probably being one of the last modern Christmas movies to come out and become a mainstay for a lot of people to watch during the holidays. It's not a bad movie, it's just a little dry and the animation style felt dated even when it came out.
M. Night Shyamalan's movies never stopped making money. His critical reception tanked but he never stopped being successful and his critical standing is significantly better today following The Visit, where he put his own money behind it and took a "if I don't succeed then it's my butt on the line" stance.
Apparently he only made The Last Airbender due to his children requesting it, not out of any love of the franchise and woof.
Anyway I lived around the corner from him as a child and he always gave out terrible candy at Hallowe'en, just a basket with "take one" that he wouldn't bother to refill when the first person dumped it all into their bag. You'd think that The Sixth Sense fella would be more in on the holiday but nope! I have some good anecdotes from around town before he moved away though (ask me IRL).
Apparently he only made The Last Airbender due to his children requesting it, not out of any love of the franchise and woof.
Anyway I lived around the corner from him as a child and he always gave out terrible candy at Hallowe'en, just a basket with "take one" that he wouldn't bother to refill when the first person dumped it all into their bag. You'd think that The Sixth Sense fella would be more in on the holiday but nope! I have some good anecdotes from around town before he moved away though (ask me IRL).
Bug and Killer Joe are fantastic.
Yes they are 😃
Charlie was okay.
Corpse Bridnwas bad though.
Technically Sweeny Todd was bad too, but only if you compare it to the live show and see how much they cut.
And I say that as a huge Alice in Wonderland fan. Even have 1st printings of the books with the original illustrations.
For me personally, the most devastating downfalls have been Carpenter and Argento. A really strong early career followed by some mediocre and then just some downright bad work.
Lots of acclaimed directors have weak periods in their (late) careers for some reason or other. Some can recover from them and some can't. It's always great when a disgraced veteran director somehow gets his groove back and delivers a Killer Joe/Before the Devil Knows You're Dead caliber work. Most recently at this years Cannes, Wim Wenders delivered his best fiction work in like 30 years. So maybe there is still hope for Tim Burton and Francis Ford Coppola.
Lots of acclaimed directors have weak periods in their (late) careers for some reason or other. Some can recover from them and some can't. It's always great when a disgraced veteran director somehow gets his groove back and delivers a Killer Joe/Before the Devil Knows You're Dead caliber work. Most recently at this years Cannes, Wim Wenders delivered his best fiction work in like 30 years. So maybe there is still hope for Tim Burton and Francis Ford Coppola.
This is a pretty good answer. The Walk was okay but everything after that has been really bad both artistically and financially.
His actual direction is consistent. It's his taste in scripts that's the problem.
I also think Hal Ashby is worth mentioning. Had arguably one of the best runs of a director from the '70s:
Harold and Maude
The Last Detail
Shampoo
Bound for Glory
Coming Home
Being There (Academy Award for Best Director)
Then it flips to the '80s and we got
Lookin' to Get Out
The Slugger's Wife
8 Million Ways to Die
Ashby unfortunately passed away in 1988.
Harold and Maude
The Last Detail
Shampoo
Bound for Glory
Coming Home
Being There (Academy Award for Best Director)
Then it flips to the '80s and we got
Lookin' to Get Out
The Slugger's Wife
8 Million Ways to Die
Ashby unfortunately passed away in 1988.
