Jodorowsky thinks very little of Nicolas Winding Refn's current output, so no.
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Is Damon Lindelof the Hideo Kojima of television?
- Thread starter Blue Skies
- Start date
I'm not a big fan of Lindelof but, if I'm being honest, Kojima is not even in the same ballpark.
except the ending which I actually think is more plausible or interesting. Though I like the squid rain in the tv show.
I absolutely love Lost and The Leftovers (as you could probably tell). I've only watched the first 2 episodes of Watchmen, it's not that I don't like it I'd just prefer to watch the whole thing in 1 sitting. I've been a Lindelof stan for a long time now, he definitely shits on Kojima.
Both are propped up by putting out a bunch of nonsense and others shouting "you just dont get it!". Lindelof is very much of the mindset that what your writing doesn't necessarily need a destination or purpose/explanation whatsoever, as long as it's fun as it happens. While not every little detail needs and explanation, he leverages the "unknown" just so much that it eventually gets tired and cheapens the whole thing. Lost is obviously by far the best example of this, prometheus had some of this in it as well, where you ask yourself "ok that looked cool i guess... but why?". Kojima is like a mashup of lindelof and lynch, except he clearly isn't as talented as those 2.
I'm looking at it in terms of how this direct sequel to Watchmen completely scrambles up one of the more important themes of watchmen.
Is this Hooded Justice still a supporter of the Third Reich like he was in the book? It's a disturbing thing to try to place in context.
The episode on its own was very good.
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Nope Jodorowsky is beyond Kojima.
Kojima wishes he had an ounce of Jodorowsky in him
I don't recall if we ever have proof Hooded Justice was a supporter of the Third Reich in the comic, just that The Comedian killed him because he suspected he was and Hollis Mason mentioning it in his book
Damn I wish people wouldn't spoil leftovers in here I haven't watched it yet 😭
on topic as someone who has only played death stranding and seen watchman from this respectable artist I have to said lindolof is blowing my mind with the writing. Watchman is just so fucking good it's unbelievable. It's easily the second best season this year behind succession season 2. While deathstranding has some of the best cinematography and atmosphere I have seen in any game this last decade. Yet, the writing is not that good in deathstranding. If Kojima does make a movie he needs a writing room. He can direct the fuck out of it, but man geta writers room please!
on topic as someone who has only played death stranding and seen watchman from this respectable artist I have to said lindolof is blowing my mind with the writing. Watchman is just so fucking good it's unbelievable. It's easily the second best season this year behind succession season 2. While deathstranding has some of the best cinematography and atmosphere I have seen in any game this last decade. Yet, the writing is not that good in deathstranding. If Kojima does make a movie he needs a writing room. He can direct the fuck out of it, but man geta writers room please!
Hollis Mason claims he heard it first hand. And it lines up with the themes of the book, and especially Hooded Justice's iconography.
Lindelof made a good episode of television but it's downright creepy if you take seriously his stated aim of following up the universe portrayed in the book.
Both of them have others to lean on (which is very good), but Kojima is more like the Lars Ulrich of writers. It's like he's literally choosing not to improve his craft.
To answer that question, we must use machine learning...
Is Damon Lindelof the Hideo Kojima of television?
Many theorize that Damon Lindelof is the true creator of the show, given that Kojima began as a traditional game designer and was originally hired to work on the next Silent Hill.
With Kojima now gone, the long-rumored concept for the next Silent Hill was quickly put on hold. And when the Silent Hill reboot was announced, Lindelof was one of the few producers who seemed willing to talk about it. Now that the series is being rebooted with
Is Damon Lindelof the Hideo Kojima of television?
Many theorize that Damon Lindelof is the true creator of the show, given that Kojima began as a traditional game designer and was originally hired to work on the next Silent Hill.
With Kojima now gone, the long-rumored concept for the next Silent Hill was quickly put on hold. And when the Silent Hill reboot was announced, Lindelof was one of the few producers who seemed willing to talk about it. Now that the series is being rebooted with
Lost was a 'fun ride', The Leftovers was probably one of my favorite series ever, and Watchmen is blowing my mind right now. I feel like Lindelof is a collaborator and second guesses himself a lot, then just sort of went for it with Leftovers and hit it out of the park.
I adore Kojimas games but his stories are like sprawling streams of consciousness, not tightly honed narratives. But he dreams big and tackles relevant issues.
Honestly if I could only keep the memory of the experiences of one it would be Kojima, no competition, but I *wish* he'd learn that so often less is more.
I adore Kojimas games but his stories are like sprawling streams of consciousness, not tightly honed narratives. But he dreams big and tackles relevant issues.
Honestly if I could only keep the memory of the experiences of one it would be Kojima, no competition, but I *wish* he'd learn that so often less is more.
There is something in my brain that recognizes the talent of Lindelof, but I can't deal with constant mysteries his material showcases with seemingly no explanation or payoff. I tapped out halfway through S2 of The Leftovers, the LOST shenanigans, and after Ep1 of Watchmen when it started raining squids. Just cant do it with him anymore.
Both were responsible for some of the shittiest writing i have ever witnessed. Lost Seasons 5 & 6 and MGS 4.
no, but Watchmen the TV series is better written than anything by Kojima and I love Snatcher and Policenauts (which are his most narrative heavy games).
So you didn't finish or continue with 2 great series because without seeing the full story it confused you? The Leftovers is one of the best series in the last decade, and Watchmen is on pace to be the same--although Watchmen requires some prior knowledge of the Graphic Novel or Animated Novel at least to fully understand, but that was made pretty clear in the leadup to the show.
I guess I did. I can't make myself enjoy the IPs he is attached to. What pains me is that The Leftovers was a great concept, and Season 1 was some of the most pointless television I have endured. Being that I wasn't "enjoying the ride" enough to continue enduring Season 2, I dropped it. Watchmen's first episode was like a Lindelof PTSD session for me again, and I decided the juice was not worth the squeeze again.
Season 1 of the Leftovers is basically following the book from A to Z. A lot of people have issues with the first season but that is entirely the books fault. Season 2 and 3 are so much better once Lindelof had the opportunity to do what he wanted with the characters.
Also complaining about mysteries when it comes to The Leftovers is kind of silly, everything gets resolved by the end.
Leftovers and Watchmen have made a huge fan of Lindelof. I like Kojima but in terms of writing he is just not in the same league.
Also this was a fun thread to read.
Also this was a fun thread to read.
Someone in an earlier thread compared Kojima to Zack Snyder, and I thought that was pretty spot on.
Snyder's pet project Sucker Punch is exactly the type of pretentious, tone deaf, misogynistic bullshit Kojima would come up with if given the chance to direct a movie.
Snyder's pet project Sucker Punch is exactly the type of pretentious, tone deaf, misogynistic bullshit Kojima would come up with if given the chance to direct a movie.
Uh, Lindelof is a good writer who had a few big misses that still haunt him, happens to everyone, just look at the guy who created Peaky Blinders and Taboo while also making two turds just this year.
Kojima had a few neat things tied to the gameplay back in the MGS1-3 days, but his writing has never been a strong point of his games, it was a playground for his batshit crazy underedited cutscenes.
Kojima had a few neat things tied to the gameplay back in the MGS1-3 days, but his writing has never been a strong point of his games, it was a playground for his batshit crazy underedited cutscenes.
and so does Lindelof's. The love for his Watchman is something else.
Kojima is a complicated (ie stupid and amazing) genius while Lindelof is a standard lib peak TV writer.
I think others have said that they included the letter from the German dude about letting people of color join the Reich in an earlier episode to square that circle.
Just saying, the squid scene actually isn't a mystery. With prior knowledge of the graphic novel (which you really need for the show), it's totally obvious why it happens and who's doing it.
Just out of curiosity, why do you think it misses the point of the novel? Because of what I've seen of the show, it feels like a natural follow-up to the novel, with the same ideas, themes and political background only put in a modern perspective.
Lindelof clearly understands what the novel was going for and Alan Moore's deeper feeling about politics and heroics. Snyder on the other hand saw Rorschach as a hero and deliberately removed all critique on him and other heroes in his adaptation.
The Watchmen movie wasn't "great", it jettisoned the more contentious themes and deconstructionist narrative for favour of an action movie where Rorschach is idolised. The TV show is more in line with the themes of the comic and is pretty great so far. Also, unexpectedly funny.
You need to play better games if you believe this. Kojima is the smallest notch above hacks like David Cage, he's just more stylish. Everything he's written since Fukushima left has been awful, even for videogames.
I don't disagree that games could up their ante on the writing front, but Kojima is far from the best writer in games. Kojima is nothing compared to people like Chris Avellone or really most writers working in the (c)RPG space.
And when we're not just talking traditional ways of storytelling, Kojima comes off even worse. Games like Papers, Please, What Remains of Edith Finch, Pathologic or Return of the Obra Dinn are far more interesting than any Kojima game narratively.
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