Quixzlizx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,591
Why are people so desperate to perceive themselves as victims? People crying over being shamed and "yeah, that's going to convince us" remind me of the Karens who explain that calling racist people racist is the real racism and that's the reason they're going to vote Republican.

If you truly have the strength of your convictions, then the comments of randoms on the internet should bounce right off of you, but so many people think victimhood is a cheat code that unlocks righteousness.

Actual victims of this administration are suffering a lot worse than some disapproving remarks on ERA.
 

Zhengi

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
1,912
I don't like Biden and liked him even less when he came out with that ad that stoked anti-Asian sentiments, but you can bet your ass I'm voting for him against Trump. Not doing so is incredibly irresponsible and dangerous to all minorities.
 

Combo

Banned
Jan 8, 2019
2,437
Because change can't come about by voting for the same old?

Personally I would vote Biden but is that the way to get someone with views like Sanders or AOC in power in the future? I don't know.

How do you dislodge the stranglehold that the right has on your party if you keep them in power? As a Brit, the dems are right wing.
 

TheMango55

Banned
Nov 1, 2017
5,788
Nobody thinks that except people who are secretly trump fans.

Even if they actually hate him and are leftists, they want him to win because they believe the destruction he brings to America over the next 4 years will pave the way for their glorious communist revolution.
 

Luckett_X

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,447
Leeds, UK
"3rd times the charm for an 83 year old Bernie and whats the worst another 4 years of Trump could bring?!" is a bold creed to live by when everything is already on fire.
 
Oct 30, 2017
762
As a Mexican American I was against Trump since the very beginning. His war against Hispanic/Latin drew the most initial eyes when he declared...

"When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending people that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists. And some, I assume, are good people."

That it how my people were largely introduced to the way Trump would view us moving forward. Since then we've had various flash points to Trump's dehumanizing and hateful view of people like me. Calling the Indiana born Judge Curiel a "Mexican Judge" demonstrated that he didn't believe brown people were suited to judge cases against him. Trump would later use the 2018 Midterm Election to declare a national emergency at the Mexican border where thousands of US military troops were used as props to fight off the "migrant caravan" as a demonstration that seeking refuge and asylum wasn't available to people who look like me. The absolute breaking point should have been the humanitarian disaster of separating children from their parents in the border, which was an act that orphaned thousands of children and showcased that his administration was willing to put children in cages in conditions not even fit for dogs. Those events came and went, but people continued to make comments that "X" was just as bad as Trump for reasons that I can only attribute to a total lack of care given to people who look like me.

I have mostly bit my tongue when I see comments here try to draw a false equivalence between Biden and Trump or Democrats and Republicans. I know that it's an exercise in futility as people try to create conflict and blur the lines for a variety of reasons and motivations. The 100,000 deaths was something I thought that a reasonable person would understand as something that didn't need to happen. That this was a slow moving disaster that was made worst with every week that the Trump administration refused to act and take responsibility. This was something that killed without thought of race and political affiliation, but disproportionately killed more poor people through lack of access to medical care. Even while all this happened I would still read comments that claimed Biden or movements adjacent to Democrats were just as bad as Trump.

The killing of George Floyd and Trump's response to the protesters once again illustrates how his racist and dehumanizing presence has only lead to more minority tragedies. What have people felt and what do people continue to feel when comments on this site continue to argue that Trump isn't that bad or that the other guy/institution/movement/etc. is just as bad if not worst?

Viewing them as the same is a special privilege held by white people who do not face the full consequences of having a racist, narcissistic president in the White House.
 

platocplx

2020 Member Elect
Member
Oct 30, 2017
36,086
As someone who thinks Biden is trash... anyone who everseriously tried to make this claim is either a dishonest pos or utterly fucking delusional.
I agree. Biden is flawed in his own right but the choice between someone so unqualified for the position vs one who is qualified its a no brainer. And again I want people who are that mad about Biden to go and run for office themselves instead of the arm chair they both suck.
 

captive

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,102
Houston
pretty much people that think if Biden wins and we don't have M4All, police reform, prosecutions of all of trump admin, all of trumps executive orders overturned, all within the first day of his presidency, "both parties are the same"
 

stump sock

Member
Oct 25, 2017
735
Because change can't come about by voting for the same old?

Personally I would vote Biden but is that the way to get someone with views like Sanders or AOC in power in the future?
Accelerationism is a terrible and extremely dangerous gambit and is all but guaranteed to make things worse
 

Brinbe

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
59,661
Terana
i get their point because of their disillusionment after obama's super majority that failed to deliver meaningful change to millions of young people just entering the work force that got majorly screwed over. they did a good job of shoring up other parts of the economy and the rich, but inequality still ran rampant. and covid has just worsened things for many people already struggling. look at things from their perspectives. even after voting and engaging with the process, they were left by the wayside. it's hard to muster up the strength to support what hasn't worked and trust you won't be screwed over all over again.

but only goes so far. and biden is still about a billion times better even through his imperfections. when given a binary choice between mediocre and historically evil and incompetent, the choice is pretty fucking clear. anyone else protesting that is thinking too much about themselves.

a vote for biden isn't just a vote for biden. it's a vote against white supremacy
 

Deleted member 19533

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,873
I think he'll be just as bad. It seems pretty cut and dry to me. There is no option for progressivism in the coming election.
 
Oct 29, 2017
6,380
It's childish bullshit peddled by people who can't accept that Bernie lost, or bad faith actors.

And I say that as someone who donated monthly to Bernie and planned to vote for him.
 

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,635
Somehow I feel like a Biden presidency wouldn't amount to racism so emboldened and prevalent that it took a multi-day riot for a police officer to be arrested after an extended video of him slowly killing a black man. Just a thought.

...you know tons of this was going on during the Obama years, right?
 

Sagroth

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,957
I actually almost consider folks who equivocate the two publicly as doing a public service: it tells myself (and hopefully others) that their takes on anything and everything should be ignored.
 

Psamtik

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,966
They would've found a way to say this about Warren, or Harris, or Buttigieg, or Beto, or Booker...
 

TreeMePls

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,261
Because change can't come about by voting for the same old?

Personally I would vote Biden but is that the way to get someone with views like Sanders or AOC in power in the future? I don't know.

How do you dislodge the stranglehold that the right has on your party if you keep them in power? As a Brit, the dems are right wing.
Yes because something called the overton window exists, something that you clearly understand in that last sentence of yours
 

Htown

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,364
They both suck, I'm not voting for either they're both shitheels. Just because one peice of shit smells a little less shitty doesnt mean you have to accept either, vote independent.
voting independent is the dumbest thing you can do in a presidential election

state or local election? fine

but the way the electoral college is set up, it's literally just a wasted vote
 

The Albatross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
39,428
Bullying isn't how you get people to change votes chief. Stay classy.

Agreed. Who is bullying you? OP?

I was referencing this attitude in my post. For the most part, I think the majority of Sanders, Warren, or other candidate supporters have decided that they have to support Joe Biden: Their preferred candidates do (like me, I was a Warren supporter), and they've made the case why it's right to support Biden in the general election, and I think most supporters of those candidates have agreed. It's one of the reasons why we've seen Biden's support continue to grow, he's building a coalition of Democratic voices, taking issues that might have been Warren or Sanders' initially, and looking to work with them. In exchange, those candidates have endorse Biden and are asking their supporters -- like me -- to vote for Joe in November.

But there's been a transition among real die-hard anti-Biden or whatever supporters from ... Every criticism of my position, or every appeal to vote for Biden over Trump, or every appeal to rationality is "bullying" or "Shaming" them, or something. It was common at first, "I won't be shamed into voting for Biden!" and, fine, if you feel like people are shaming you then that's your prerogative to sit out. BUt, it's morphed from "I won't be shamed for sitting out in the election" to "any criticism of my point of view is shaming me" or "any criticism of my anti-biden rhetoric is bullying." It isn't. You're not a victim.

The 100,000+ Americans who have unneccessarily died because of Trump's inaction and harmful response to the COVID-19 outbreak; the 40m+ Americans who have lost their jobs; the individuals who are being murdered by police at the encouragement of Trump ... Those are the victims, those are the people being bullied. The millions of proud American who have to go to food pantries and apply for government assistance because of Trump's mishandling of the Coronavirus... Those are the people who are feeling shame, not me, not us. I don't feel any shame for my preferred candidate in the Democratic primary losing, and I'll feel a lot of pride if I can vote this dangerous narcissist out of office in 150 days. If we want to talk about shame, I'll feel far more shame if I sit out and if I encourage other people to sit out, just because my candidate lost in February, and I enabled Trump's re-election in November. That would be shame for me.
 
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Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,839
...you know tons of this was going on during the Obama years, right?
"Systemic racism got worse under the Trump administration especially with the rise of the alt right and Trump's constant dogwhistles after running a campaign where the premise was Make America WHITE Again" = / = "There was no systemic racism before Trump"

People with the both sides nonsense are delusional. Especially given that there are multiple threads on the front page of etc. containing multiple examples of just how bad this administration is. To imply that Trump didn't make things vastly worse, is at the very very best, fucking insulting.
 

LastCaress

Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
1,686
Biden is like a bad flavour of ice scream, Trump is like a 5 foot metal spike driven into your eye socket.
 

LGHT_TRSN

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,294
Denial, ego, fragility...take your pick. I don't really care what the reason is at this point, nor do I care that it hurts their fucking feelings to be called out for it. "Stop bullying us!" or whatever bullshit get's spewed just shows the level of privilege it originates from. The same kind of self-victimization response that causes a white woman to call the police because a black man asks her to leash her dog in a public park.
 

Deleted member 2834

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,620
I'd like to know as well. It's absolute lunacy. I pretty much lose all respect for anyone both-siding Trump/Biden. I legit won't ever take another post of them seriously if I recognize them in other threads, even if they just to drop their hot take on Game of Thrones season 8. Some of them gotta be secret agents, that's how indefensible this position is. If I was American, I'd vote for a literal turd over Trump. It's lives on the line and it's the climate on the line, so just vote Biden please.

This part of the left has to die out yesterday. Beyond worthless.
 
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blue_whale

Member
Nov 1, 2017
608
voters have goldfish memories i know but people both sidesing here. just seriously look at this one fucking week and tell me honestly that a president could be worse.
 

Kayla

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,316
Ill only vote for someone if they support M4A. If joe biden decides to support it before the election he'll have my vote.
 

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,635
"Systemic racism got worse under the Trump administration especially with the rise of the alt right" = / = "There was no systemic racism before Trump"

Eric Garner was literally videotaped being choked to death shouting "I can't breathe" during the Obama years. Minnesota has a Democrat governor and this entire police force festered under it.

Like vote for Biden, whatever, but acting like this shit didn't happen and wouldn't happen under a Democrat is laughable.
 

Koo

Member
Dec 10, 2017
1,863
Some people are tired of the pragmatism that results in candidates like Biden rising to the top. I do not believe people are sincere when they say he is 'as bad as Trump' vs just being disappointed and disillusioned with the system that has lead us here and thus engaging in hyperbole.
 

Deleted member 171

Oct 25, 2017
19,888
It was fucking nonsense the whole time. People that were protected from the influence of government spouting off about things they didn't care about.
 

Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
Member
Oct 24, 2017
34,591
One thing is clear to me, this isn't South Park's satire of choosing between a turd sandwich and a douche anymore. lol
It never was. I honestly shake my head at anyone who actually believed that inane South Park allegory. It's a childish view of politics from people who think they're much smarter than they actually are.
Haven't met a soul who thinks Biden is as bad as Trump and I don't really see this sentiment expressed anywhere.
...You see it in this very thread
 

Alavard

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
5,415
I understand looking at the things Biden is poised to do as President and feel like he's not changing enough of the underlying systems that lead to so many problems, but at the same time, I can't understand how anyone can look at the ways Trump has directly attacked various marginalized peoples and not do the most basic thing to ensure he's not in power any longer.
 

Duane

Unshakable Resolve
The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
6,518
Put it this way: This thread was started 45 minutes ago and it's already outdated because since then Trump has made two more meltdown, long term harm to the world type moves (Hong Kong and WHO).

Biden has no lack of flaws, but the idea is nonsense that he's in any way equivalent to the geyser of human suffering that Trump has been the last 4 years and would be for four more.
 

Darren Lamb

Member
Dec 1, 2017
2,844
I can see how some would be discouraged in that Biden won't solve a lot of important issues to people, but I always think in politics you have to make a choice for the least bad option. There's no way Biden would be as damaging, unhinged, and divisive as Trump is. I donated to Bernie and Warren in the last two primary cycles, so I'm not all about Biden, but there's no way I can live with myself for voting for Trump/not cancelling out a Trump vote.
 

Deleted member 19533

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,873
what makes you think that?
Joe Biden is very much about the status quo. He's literally said boot straps, and doesn't like the younger generations. He has zero interest in correcting the issues we face. I feel on a lot of the points that are relevant to me, he's no different. That, and I believe he's unfit. This isn't to say Trump is, he isn't, but neither one of them are good. He'll make less of an ass of himself on twitter. I guess that's good.
3896.jpg
 

DonNadie

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
887
You're either in a very privileged position, don't care about other people's suffering, or in denial and willing to make everybody pay after your preferred candidate didn't get the nomination to think that Biden would be anywhere as bad as Trump.