I finished S1 a few months ago and thought....That was okay. I don't need to see anymore. I didn't care what happens or doesn't happen to anyone.
In hindsight, I don't think I liked Succession at all.
- Thread starter Soapbox Killer
- Start date
"the show is about shitbag people" is not an unserious take. it's accurate!
but "i don't like the show because it's about shitbag people" is an unserious take. you should not need to root for people in order to enjoy satire and social commentary.
If this is your only read on the show, then we watched two totally different shows. The show very much grapples with the fact the three kids were all emotionally and physically abused, and the relationship with their abusive as hell father.
This is another thing that was confusing to me. I didn't realize the show was supposed to be a comedy. The first few episodes are giving very much Prestige Drama.
I'm gonna be honest, I really liked the show but I felt the ending was premature. I did not like where they ended the series, it just felt like it really undercut some of the growth they had, and they left an awful lot of story threads on the table.
I do hope they'll do like a one-off movie down the road with these characters. I feel there's still more to be said about them.
I do hope they'll do like a one-off movie down the road with these characters. I feel there's still more to be said about them.
I wouldn't say it's a "comedy" outright. There's moments of dark comedy but there's also some really really heavy shit.
"I don't want to watch a show about assholes and nothing happens" is giving me vibes of when some folks discuss their dislike for Mad Men. There is quite a lot that goes on over the season in Succession and while ultimately the end of it is in the vein of more of the same, the arcs of each character to get to that point is anything but "nothing happens"
Both shows can be seen as dark comedy
Both shows can be seen as dark comedy
There's definitely more to say and explore. I agree they could've pushed one more season. I'm not sure why they ended it as early as they did.
Another season for them 'on their own' after you know what happens to you know who would've been perfect.
i think the show is obviously hilarious from episode one onward. why would you think any of these people were written as competent (other than logan)?
i won't take this Greg slander
The boy grew from a beautiful caterpillar into an absolutely disgusting butterfly
The boy grew from a beautiful caterpillar into an absolutely disgusting butterfly
He really did end up as a piece of shit. I did not want him to but it's amazing how quickly he took to it lmao
Shouts to James Cromwell. Feel like he doesn't get enough credit in this. An immence presence and probably the only truly morally good character if not misguided and tragic.
Some folks don't want to watch shitty people being shitty no matter how well done it is. I know folks who can't stand stuff It's Always Sunny for similar reasons.
I mean...sure? That's "revealed" I suppose but it's clear from the very first episode that he's a toxic and abusive father. When we learn the actual details that didn't really endear me to these characters or make me more forgiving of them at all. What changes when we learn the details of how abusive Logan was? They were repugnant and unlikable before the revelation and then repugnant and unlikable after the revelation.
Honestly I'm giving this conversation way more energy and time that I care about. I don't want to be debating the show-just wanted to stick up for Soapbox Killer and let you know that yes, you're not alone in feeling this about the show.
Thanks, I appreciate the perspective. Maybe I'll give it a fair shake one day, but I've got a backlog of other shows to catch up on already lol.
To expand on my own feelings of disinterest in the show: it's not just the fact that they're all assholes, although that's part of it. It's also the context and setting. Watching assholes be assholes, specifically in the context of some white collar business drama, is just so unappealing to me.
I enjoy plenty of stuff without a likeable or morally correct protagonist. Some of my favorite shows are Sopranos, Breaking Bad, The Wire, stuff like that. But they have the hook of a more "exciting" premise with all the crime stuff that helps maintain the stakes. And while morally bad people from an objective standpoint, many of the criminals in these shows can be pretty likeable at times, and more relatable and sympathetic due to their backgrounds and/or economic class. I'm not going to feel the same sympathy or relatability when it comes to a bunch of trust fund assholes, nor do I find the setting and drama around corporate hijinks at all exciting or engaging.
I also love the ASOIAF books, which largely revolve around privileged, rich nobles, most of whom are various degrees of terrible. But again, the setting and stakes of medieval monarchy geopolitics is inherently much more interesting to me than white collar corporate politics. There are at least a few heavily flawed, but generally good and moral characters. And my favorite chapters of the books are when Arya is traveling Westeros pretending to be someone else and we get good looks at how the nobles' bullshit affects the common folk.
So it's a combination of uninteresting premise and unlikable characters that makes me not interested in it.
That's the point. It would be downright comically disappointing if in the end these assholes became grew on the experience and became "better". It's a dark comedy about the vicious cycle of these ultra rich lineages.
I would also say, most of the characters are not who they started as. They might not have become better, but I wouldn't say their development was flat. Bad people who had chances to improve and become better at different points and then just kept making the wrong choice and really showing their ass. Then you learn more about their background and it's kind of like, damn, they never really stood a chance.
Most of which have a good amount of comedy. Initially it was mostly circumstantial, like watching two adult siblings get into a slap fight while their spouse walks in and quickly walks out. Or watching a broke character get his last $20 taken from him and put into a vending machine where he doesn't get change. The bachelor party episode was probably the first outright comedic episode of Succession tho.
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I have a simple brain. I need heroes and villains clearly defined in my tv. Cold Beer and burnt meat.
okay, but episode 1 involves greg vomiting in a mascot costume, kendall making an obviously ridiculous acquisition bid, and roman and shiv getting tangled up in a daft COO plot in the background of logan trying to get his wife on the board. it is not exactly anna karenina.
the whole premise of the show from the outset is the combination of the most insanely personal corporate drama with the highest stakes imaginable, and what makes it compelling is the frequently hilarious writing and performances of the people involved in it.
Okay but did I say that? All I said was that I thought the show was a drama. I didn't get a lot of comedy from the episodes I watched. I haven't shit on anyone for liking the show so what's with the hostility?
For me, Succession was just ok show. Production quality, writing, acting, directing were all stellar, but for some reason it just wasn't my cup of tea. I guess the setting wasn't of my interest.
But I did like the fact that the characters were awful from start to end. These were awful people and probably incapable of changing theirself . I do enjoy generally these type of shows.
But I did like the fact that the characters were awful from start to end. These were awful people and probably incapable of changing theirself . I do enjoy generally these type of shows.
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I was late to the party and only started watching once S4 started airing, I binged through all 4 seasons in like 3 weeks. Wife dropped out after 2 or 3 episodes, she has no patience or time for shitty people.
I didn't think I would like the show but I did enjoy it, mostly for the funny takes on capitalism and nepotism. Its not my favorite show or even something I'd put in top 50, but I was happy enough to watch all the episodes and now I get references people make about The Roys or Logan or the disgusting brothers. Having worked in similar corporate environments I enjoyed the jibes at how back stabbing, incompetent, and self interested everyone is.
I don't really feel like I got anything out of the show other than what I already knew, rich people are usually assholes and their lives are completely different from everyone elses. The travel porn - private jets, resort islands, limo travel - was ostentatious yet embarrassingly fun to watch.
I didn't think I would like the show but I did enjoy it, mostly for the funny takes on capitalism and nepotism. Its not my favorite show or even something I'd put in top 50, but I was happy enough to watch all the episodes and now I get references people make about The Roys or Logan or the disgusting brothers. Having worked in similar corporate environments I enjoyed the jibes at how back stabbing, incompetent, and self interested everyone is.
I don't really feel like I got anything out of the show other than what I already knew, rich people are usually assholes and their lives are completely different from everyone elses. The travel porn - private jets, resort islands, limo travel - was ostentatious yet embarrassingly fun to watch.
that's fair. what i'd say sets succession apart is the real-world stakes. yeah everyone's a privileged asshole, but each character is extremely well-written in their own right and could potentially have a major impact on the political and cultural landscape if they end up getting their way. no-one could watch this show in good faith and say "oh yeah these rich assholes are all the same".
no hostility intended — sorry that you took it that way. i just really don't understand how anyone could watch the first couple episodes of succession and not think that it was inherently about sending up ridiculous people.
Cash App me $50 and I'll change my opinion on the first four episodes of the show.
well hey now you're making me want to rewatch them. but i don't recall them being a slog
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I didnt get that the show wasn't fully serious for a while, like 5 -6 episodes. I thought it was a show I just didn't get. I don't know that I have watched many dark comedy tv shows, if any.
My viewing experience was similar to yours at first. I was hooked only barely; I could see the show was sharply written and everyone I trusted loved it, so I couldn't QUITE see it but I had enough momentum to keep going until it did hook me, which was the bachelor party episode. That's when the comedy of the show finally snapped into focus and I fell head over heels in love with it.
It's episode 8, so it's a decent time investment to get there, but if ever you feel the pull to give it another shot I'd suggest making it to that episode.
The show is absolutely not trying to be a comedy, it's def a drama. It's just that, like Sopranos, a lot of stuff can be viewed as comedy. And I think it's for the better b/c if the show tried to a keep a 100% serious face the entire time it'd just fall apart. It needed the mix
I binged the show like nothing ever and then I just lost interest and don't see myself going back for the final season. Once they threatened to introduce the tech bro character I think had enough....shit was starting to get a bit too real.
Now my new guilt free rich people show is The Gilded Age.
Now my new guilt free rich people show is The Gilded Age.
obviously the drama is paramount but like, it was written by the creator of peep show. major plot points turn on dick jokes. tom and greg are in it. it was very clearly always intended to be a show that would make you laugh.
The show consisting of shitbags, ending with shitbags doing shitbags things could be used to describe a lot of media actually.
A bunch of highly regarded/popular shows (Breaking Bad, Mad Men, Sopranos, Game of Thrones, etc.) fit this mold.
I think succession is so grounded, with grounded characters doing grounded everyday things, that it becomes more apparent. But, as many have pointed, the overall messaging and moral of the show is not in line with the actual characters themselves. Though I understand that can sometimes be not enough to stomach it.
I've always had the same problem with Always Sunny in Philadelphia.
A bunch of highly regarded/popular shows (Breaking Bad, Mad Men, Sopranos, Game of Thrones, etc.) fit this mold.
I think succession is so grounded, with grounded characters doing grounded everyday things, that it becomes more apparent. But, as many have pointed, the overall messaging and moral of the show is not in line with the actual characters themselves. Though I understand that can sometimes be not enough to stomach it.
I've always had the same problem with Always Sunny in Philadelphia.
It was necessary to help keep these people not looking like total ghouls to the point of people just tuning out. I just don't view it as a "comedy", it's def more dark and satire in it's delivery.
Like Greg eating a giant bowl of noodles before going to that meal with Tom is def a layered on thing and not just a punch line in a sitcom
The finale episode was terrible. Wwell liek the final 3. They just had no idea to do with the show so they just gave up.
all i am saying is that the show was very obviously intended to be funny right from the start. the sense of humour was integral from the very first episode. if people got confused because it looked like an HBO prestige drama then i guess that's their problem, but most viewers and critics seem to have been okay with it
Humor is subjective and it can take time for the viewer to adjust. I'm not sure why you're being as aggressive as you are on this point.
The finale sucked. I'm fine With Tom winning and the brothers getting fucked over but i wanted more after that all went down. Supposedly there's an alternate ending where Kendal jumps off something implying he's killing himself. Search Reddit for more on that. Someone snuck pics on location while that scene was being filmed
humour is indeed subjective, but i think a lot of the criticism ITT is truly asinine — to the point where some people are suggesting the show wasn't even meant to be a comedy in the first place. not trying to be aggressive but this is like, anti-criticism.
each to their own, i just really think the idea that you gotta like the people in the show you're watching is corrosive to critical discourse these days.
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Check out Get Shorty, Fargo (movie and series) if you have any interest in the genre.
Black comedies are my fav genre.
I totally agree with you here. I've actually watched a few episodes of Succession (across several seasons) and for the reasons you listed, I could never get into it.
I'm with you OP, my tolerance for rich shitbags these days is pretty low so I can't imagine that I would spend my free time watching a bunch of rich assholes being shitty people. It's just not for me and I'm ok not investing my time watching it.
can't agree. a big part of the fascination to me was seeing these losers constantly be given off-ramps where they could pack it in, leave with more money they could ever need, and try to become better, happier people and always deciding not to for one excuse or another. watching a character like roman roy develop until he's heckling protestors until they beat him up so that he can feel less pathetic is far more compelling to me than the same character discovering radical self-care