How about how those stores were protected by the police when poor minorites can't get a cop to investigate a burglary in their neighborhood? It's a systemic problem. Racism is as American as apple pie. How many times must the oppressed beg the oppressors for justice before it becomes right to sieze it? The social heirarchy exists so a few can have everything, some can have a little, and the rest nothing. When business owners have more political capital to affect change and do not, they are part of the problem. Just as idle cops that do not stand against the bad apples are.
imagine not being able to grasp that human lives of dark skin people actually is more valuable than mass produced material items
of course they'd think those business owners are only supporting protestors to protect their personal interests
I think the murder of Latasha Harlins by a convince store worker had something to do with that
it's fucked up that you needed to be enlightened about that while talking about those riots like some kinda gotcha
Source article detailing the damage done and other important historical detailsA year prior, a Korean-American shopkeeper named Soon Ja Du had fatally shot a 15-year-old black girl named Latasha Harlins. Du received a sentence of five years probation and 400 hours of community service.
Another incident happened in June that same year, when shopkeeper Tae Sam Park killed 42-year-old Lee Arthur Mitchell. Park refused to sell Mitchell a wine cooler he allegedly wanted for 25 cents less than it was priced, according to the Los Angeles Times.
A struggle ensued after Mitchell went behind the counter of Park's liquor store to take money, and Park pulled a pistol and shot the unarmed Mitchell five times. Park was cleared in the incident.
And just a month earlier, two recent Korean immigrants working at another liquor store were shot to death after complying with demands from a robber whom police identified as black, the LA Times reported.
For me, there is a huge difference between looting and breaking a few windows versus burning down a building and taking livelihoods with it, particularly small business. I also fail to see how burning down buildings like the Migizi Communications building, losing irreplaceable Native American archives, photos and historic materials in the process, supports the cause.
You want to make a mark, burn down the police precincts, burn down government buildings. Hell, burn down the news outlets who care more about their ratings than they do black lives, while profiting off of their misery.
All that is being accomplished right now is assuring that large corporations like Target, Walmart, Wendy's, Arby's, etc. will come back to even less competition as small business will be unable to reopen, while the rich CEOs/owners continue to become richer.
This I don't get. SO if white people burn down a police station, they're not the kind of allies black people need? In a thread arguing for looting, its pro black people looting for justice and anti white people looting for justice? Ultimately I think you want everyone and every color fighting for justice. YOu say white people cant comprehend systemic racism, and its true we dont suffer from it. But you want to be heard by SOME white people in order to help push forward change, because unfortunately there's a lot of whites in power. If the white people are also out there protesting for Black Lives Matter, you're being heard.
This one right here. If you have a problem with looting but are doing nothing about the unjust systems that have led to this point then shut the fuck up. It's just property. As a black man I can be killed with impunity just because of the color of my skin. I have no sympathy for billion dollar corps that underpay their workers and contribute to the massive income inequality in this country.I know one thing, white folks who sit there and want to quote Malcolm X, MLK, or any other civil rights leader to us black folks about the "right" way to protest and in defense of "those poor businesses" can get fucked. I can't honestly say that if someone didn't do that to my face that I wouldn't have a strong urge to knock them the fuck out. Walk a mile in my shoes as a black man and go through my experiences with corrupt police forces before you get to say shit to me.
I imagine this has been shared around here somewhere already, but I just stumbled upon Trevor Noah's video talking about all of this and he touches on looting specifically towards the latter half. He frames it really, really well on why looting is always gonna be a natural response to this kind of societal issue because it's symptomatic of failing to uphold societal contracts. In the sense that: those in power agreed to treat those they govern fairly and equally when assuming that position, and so those they govern in return readily agree and conform to the placed upon rules. But as it is now (and has been for basically ever in this country), when black people are systematically treated unfairly, brutalized, and killed it signals that those in power are not upholding their end of the societal bargain, and so, after so much, a person is naturally gonna eventually stop and think, 'well then why should I?' When those who set the law refuse to fairly apply it to themselves and conversely unfairly apply it to black people/minorities and systematically murder them in the process, literally what reason do these folks have to show care for orderly conduct and property in return. Clearly it's not making a difference either way.
He says it all much more profoundly than I could ever begin to summarize his words, so I really recommend giving it a watch:
Essentially, when literally nothing else is working as a solution, escalation is gonna be the inevitable conclusion. If we want to coexist in a society where protest looting isn't a thing that happens, then we need to step up and hold those in power accountable--as they are the real source of the problem here, instead of pointing at black folks and telling them to be calm and peaceful in the face of all the shit they deal with. Like, shit, I'm just a simple white girl and I imagine I'm ignorant as fuck about a lot of things surrounding race and racism (and desperately hope I'm not stepping out of line anywhere here by saying all this), but it still seems clear as freaking day to me that looting is not the real problem nor should it be the focus at hand here. Anyone who is forced to live day in and day out in oppression is going to eventually have a breaking point, and, frankly, that it's primarily just a smattering of theft and property damage in the face of generations of utterly violating injustice is kind of extraordinary.
Yeah I'm not sure how the Korean immigrants shopkeepers who had their livelihood burned down in the Rodney king riots had much to do with the systematic wealth gap in America
Please see my post above that hopefully my addresses my points on this, I apologize for the condescension, I was momentarily upset that your response seemed to think I was posting a low effort gotcha when I had explained part of my position in a longer post aboveCheck the condescension.
But you don't see a systemic involvement in immigrants being able to build businesses in predominantly black neighborhoods and make money off them? Which remains an issue today.
Good for them for making a living, nothing to hate on, but that's always been an issue between those communities for years. Immigrants move in, build, then the conversation becomes "well why are you people always complaining, we were able to come in and build our own thing, we just worked really hard."
And then shit like this happens a year before the riots
Killing of Latasha Harlins - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org
Not saying anyone deserved it, but its not like some random unrelated bystander shit.
The unrest between the communities existed.
Do The Right Thing came out in 1989 and touched on this.
Sometimes the only way to fix things is to burn this shit down and rebuild.I'm not pro-looting but I'm pro-fucking shit up.
It's the only way anyone will pay attention.
Verbally is preferred but that's not what you get from the tough guy corrupt cops.
It was only when the Suffragettes started militant and violent activity that their protest started having any impact. And in case you've forgotten, let me remind you of the infamous Boston Tea Party, an event celebrated in the United States as the first major protest of independence.They broke laws, so in that way they were criminals. I really can't see how some random criminal looters and raiders are on par with suffragettes or slaves.
All capitalistic businesses are part of the system.Immigrants who came over with nothing and tried to build a life in America are not the problem, comparing them to cops is ridiculous as they are not gatekeepers of the hierarchical oppression that black folks feel. Explain to me how much political power a mom and pop store run by immigrants who barely scrapes a living by can exercise? Many of them didn't even have the power to vote as permanent residents.
Yeah, white peeps appropriating the protest as a means to carry out large scale loot, pillage and arson and then put the blame on the protesters are the worst fucking people.This is my relative. Fuck this clown and fuck those who defended him! What did he do to deserve this?
Video
www.facebook.com
Please do not think I am using that as a way to drive a wedge between asian americans (which I am a part of) and African american groups. I have made longer posts in this previously explaining that I understand the many factors leading to the burning of Korean town
You can't use it to drive a wedge between minority groups. We know why only korean owned shops burned down.
We immigrants do not have a choice in participation in this capitalist system.
You do have the choice to stand up against oppression and make it known. A business standing together with the protestors gives more power to the oppressed.We immigrants do not have a choice in participation in this capitalist system.
You have to remember that this stuff is a mixture of tensions boiling over, bad actors riling people up, opportunism, people getting caught up in the emotions of the crowd, and so much more. I don't think a lot of looters are going to give you a thoughtful reason why they did it, or a reason related to changing the system. Trying to analyze it like this is disregarding basically everything we know about how gatherings can boil over into chaos, by trying to ascribe rational intent to it. I think the only real logic being applied is gonna come from the inciters who knew what they were doing, and anyone who is poor af and saw an opportunity to furnish their life a bit.Has anyone here ever looted? Are there any interviews I can read about looters giving an explanation for why they did it?
Otherwise it seems like there are a lot of people putting their own philosophy on why they think looters do it and why it's justified, when we don't Actually know any of this.
What's a more "justified" looting target if they are side by side - Trumps golf course/hotel or a Best Buy? Which one has the oppurtunity to elicit the change one wants to cause by looting?
How in this case would that happen? They have no voting power, they can't go protest because they are the only ones running their business and again, are barely scraping by so it's not like they can just close up shop for the day. Not like there was social media back then so they couldn't even put out a message there either.You do have the choice to stand up against oppression and make it known. A business standing together with the protestors gives more power to the oppressed.
This is my relative. Fuck this clown and fuck those who defended him! What did he do to deserve this?
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So is that your perception of the protests that are going on now? You don´t think it´s on par with previous movements therefore they are just random criminal looters and raiders?They broke laws, so in that way they were criminals. I really can't see how some random criminal looters and raiders are on par with suffragettes or slaves.
You have to remember that this stuff is a mixture of tensions boiling over, bad actors riling people up, opportunism, people getting caught up in the emotions of the crowd, and so much more. I don't think a lot of looters are going to give you a thoughtful reason why they did it, or a reason related to changing the system. Trying to analyze it like this is disregarding basically everything we know about how gatherings can boil over into chaos, by trying to ascribe rational intent to it. I think the only real logic being applied is gonna come from the inciters who knew what they were doing, and anyone who is poor af and saw an opportunity to furnish their life a bit.
It's cuz people in America tend to view race issues as black vs white and forget that every shade in between also gets affected. Whether good or badSo everybody just going to gloss over this post I guess... smh
This is my relative. Fuck this clown and fuck those who defended him! What did he do to deserve this?
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www.facebook.com
So everybody just going to gloss over this post I guess... smh
I understand your frustration. Sorry if my opinion on the subject upset you. I hope change occurs as well.
Certainly adds a bit of irony if people were accidentally defending the looting and violence of foreign forces or even white supremacists.
This is my relative. Fuck this clown and fuck those who defended him! What did he do to deserve this?
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www.facebook.com
This is a 2014 Ferguson era article but I think the critiques and defenses are mostly unchanged.
In Defense of Looting
For most of America’s history, one of the most righteous anti-white supremacist tactics available was looting.thenewinquiry.com
And posted this in another thread yesterday but:
Is this a serious post? Large businesses like LV and Target are gonna be fine. This guy's livelihood is fucked, GoFundMe or not.He should set up a gofundme. A lot of these businesses are. It's a shame what's happening, but else can be expected when the peaceful calls for justice went unanswered
This is why I'm against looting.This is my relative. Fuck this clown and fuck those who defended him! What did he do to deserve this?
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www.facebook.com
And the blame for that lies with those killing citizens on the streets and getting away with it. None of this would be happening otherwise.Is this a serious post? Large businesses like LV are gonna be fine. This guy's livelihood is fucked, GoFundMe or not.
I doubt any revolution has started by burning your own neighborhood down and looting booze, cigarettes, electrical devices and other valuables. That's a way to drive a society into anarchy. No sovereign state will tolerate it and eventually there's army on the streets shooting live ammo.It was only when the Suffragettes started militant and violent activity that their protest started having any impact. And in case you've forgotten, let me remind you of the infamous Boston Tea Party, an event celebrated in the United States as the first major protest of independence.
That's more of an academic reading of the situation from how I understood it. To me it's laying out that the concept of property is a tenuous one, only held together by societal agreement and the State's ability to uphold that agreement. Therefore, on an abstract level (the author admits to this line of thought being abstract in the next quote), the looting is a shock to the system, a reminder that it can all be rendered moot if justice is not upheld. I don't think it's ascribing that as an actual intent on the part of the people looting though?I agree. And what you posted is the most likely reason why (besides in what we are seeing in the other thread about potential bad actors/white supremacists inciting the looting and violence) this occurs.
Not because the ""idea of private property is just that: an idea, a tenuous and contingent structure of consent, backed up by the lethal force of the state.""" as proposed in the OP.
You're saying this like the perpetrators had no choice but to trash the dude's shop, alrighty then!And the blame for that lies with those killing citizens on the streets and getting away with it. None of this would be happening otherwise.
I doubt any revolution has started by burning your own neighborhood down and looting booze, cigarettes, electrical devices and other valuables. That's a way to drive a society into anarchy. No sovereign state will tolerate it and eventually there's army on the streets shooting live ammo.
And the blame for that lies with those killing citizens on the streets and getting away with it. None of this would be happening otherwise.
"justice went unanswered".He should set up a gofundme. A lot of these businesses are. It's a shame what's happening, but else can be expected when the peaceful calls for justice went unanswered
Yes, I think most people are there to loot, cause mayhem and fuck it all. I believe Floyd's sister wants everybody to stay calm and have a peaceful protest. The cop has already been arrested and the investigation has been started. Isn't that what the protestors want? To have justice for Floyd. It's happening. Why the fuck still burn everything down? By now they're just criminals causing havok and looting valuables.So is that your perception of the protests that are going on now? You don´t think it´s on par with previous movements therefore they are just random criminal looters and raiders?
it's really telling how you give zero fuck about the dude who's business is completely fucked and is getting mocked about it by some jackass.
by the way, the killer was arrested.
I doubt any revolution has started by burning your own neighborhood down and looting booze, cigarettes, electrical devices and other valuables. That's a way to drive a society into anarchy. No sovereign state will tolerate it and eventually there's army on the streets shooting live ammo.
Yes, I call them criminals. There's peaceful protestors as well, but I doubt they loot and pillage. It's other forces in play that cause the idiotic havok.To summarize your talking points so far in this thread: It's pillagers and raiders looting smokes and booze, and that theft deserves capital punishment. With each new post you seem to be escalating the terminology and descriptors you use in order to maximize a negative connotation. You should just come out and call them thugs like you really want to.