I'm crushed. Doom Eternal is probably the most disappointed I've ever been in a game
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I was coming to say that the feeling of the OP was my feeling with the jump from The New Order to The New Colossus. TNC has such a fucking weird pace to it. Also New York completely destroyed when it could have looked so good as a level, and choosing
venus in a retreat of ideas from the original game
Really really weird game, and a big dissapointment.
OP
OP
Never said the gameplay is bad or that the game is trash. My OP is pretty respectful and I'd encourage you to try and be the same.
I really appreciate most responses in this thread. It's been a great discussion and as I stated earlier, I do plan on returning to the game at some point with fresh eyes to give it another honest chance.
TNC was my most disappointing game of the generation before Doom Eternal!
I just started it on gamepass and its already not feeling as good as Doom 2016. first of all, you can't punch low level mobs to death like you used to. its super weird.
I loved Eternal. There is no shooter I've played that felt more like a character action game than it does when you are fully in the zone of its combat loop. The game is so fast that after playing through it on Ultra-Violence I felt like I had improved my reaction time when playing other games, almost like they were in slow motion. I especially remember going back to playing Dota 2 and feeling like I had more time to make decisions than I usually did and the only thing I can attribute that to is playing Eternal.
Also, I really have to give credit to id as they could have so easily put out DOOM 2016 part 2, and people would have loved it. It sucks that not everyone enjoys Eternal but I'd rather id do what they did than make a safe boring sequel we see so much of in the industry.
People may not like Eternal's changes but no one could say id played it safe in regards to the design of the game. At times it can feel like a different game than 2016 and a lot harder even on the easier difficulty settings.
Also, I really have to give credit to id as they could have so easily put out DOOM 2016 part 2, and people would have loved it. It sucks that not everyone enjoys Eternal but I'd rather id do what they did than make a safe boring sequel we see so much of in the industry.
People may not like Eternal's changes but no one could say id played it safe in regards to the design of the game. At times it can feel like a different game than 2016 and a lot harder even on the easier difficulty settings.
Playing on game pass, and I can understand how some would hate it, but I'm loving it. The amount of combat options is overwhelming in a fight sometimes. I enjoy how the game forces you to engage in all of its systems. I really can't see how I would ever complete this on higher difficulties though on console. The damage is severe on normal, can't imagine ultra violence and higher.
Doom 2016 is lean thrash metal, Eternal is overwrought and cheesy glam metal. I've made peace with it being a fun game in its own right but still it just feels so much less tight, consistent and confident overall.
Ultra Violence was the sweet-spot for me, but it definitely *demands* that you're leaning harder on the flame-belch ability to constantly replenish armor.
Yea, I think I've only died once, but to me it feels like the game balance is tuned around M/KB.
They're meant to be chainsaw'd. You'll get better meele later on to mass kill those weak enemies, won't be long
sorry but you saying the difficulty of a game makes you not like it, doesn't qualify It being a bad game in my eyes. It just means you should keep practicing. I'm being respectful as well.
I have a similar feeling with the game so I'll try and defend OP here. (For me at least) It's not the difficulty that I don't like it's that Slayer feels weak to me compared to how he was in Doom 2016. Like they took away all his power and made you "Earn it" back when one of the reasons I loved the original was how bad ass Slayer was. This is also coming from someone who played Doom 2016 in it's hardest difficulty my second run because I loved it so much. It's not the difficulty for me, it how weak Slayer feels because of the difficulty tweak.
I started this on the PS4 a couple if days ago and my initial impressions echo that as some others.
I don't know how, but they've made a game that was gloriously uncomplicated and fun rather complicated and stop start. The shooting doesn't feel as fun and bombastic either. It's feels a bit muted.
Having said that, it is starting to seep in and feeling it more and more as I play. When you're left to it it can begin to feel satisfying to play, but it feels a little rough in most departments. That's two betheseda shooters where the second game as felt more like the first and taken a backwards step. In the case of Wolfenstein 2 it's completely turned me of the series. Only halfway through the third mission so it could win me over but really surprised by how many systems they've thrown at me. It's a lot to take in. Im just finding a few of the encounters a little rough. I don't know if it is the same as the first, but the lack of feeling when you're hit seems more noticeable and I've fallen to my death a few times when in combat. It doesn't feel as refined as the first. It feels it needs a couple of Passover's just to iron out some quirks.
I hope I'm proven wrong though the further I get; also it seems like it be a game that rewards you on a second play.
I don't know how, but they've made a game that was gloriously uncomplicated and fun rather complicated and stop start. The shooting doesn't feel as fun and bombastic either. It's feels a bit muted.
Having said that, it is starting to seep in and feeling it more and more as I play. When you're left to it it can begin to feel satisfying to play, but it feels a little rough in most departments. That's two betheseda shooters where the second game as felt more like the first and taken a backwards step. In the case of Wolfenstein 2 it's completely turned me of the series. Only halfway through the third mission so it could win me over but really surprised by how many systems they've thrown at me. It's a lot to take in. Im just finding a few of the encounters a little rough. I don't know if it is the same as the first, but the lack of feeling when you're hit seems more noticeable and I've fallen to my death a few times when in combat. It doesn't feel as refined as the first. It feels it needs a couple of Passover's just to iron out some quirks.
I hope I'm proven wrong though the further I get; also it seems like it be a game that rewards you on a second play.
Whilst i'm not overally keen on the game yet (after loving the first) I tend to think that it's good to have divisive games. It's means that the developers have tried something different. And that's actually okay. I sometimes wish more games were like that, and less derivative. It would need communities to massively mature to even have civil discussions about a games high or low points though as some games do really feel the brunt against unfair backlash
OP
OP
Yeah, this is part of it. I'm a massive fan of challenging games, so difficulty on its own is never a reason for me to dislike a game. My biggest issue with Doom Eternal is the game gives you many tools, but in most situations, one very specific tool is significantly better than all other options. Many users have compared this game to a character action title. I'm currently playing the absolutely FANTASTIC Devil May Cry 5, a game that gives me countless tools to play with and in most cases, all the tools are valid strategies to work with.
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I agree. I wish having level headed discussions about the merits of a game wasn't such a tall task in the gaming community.
OP
OP
It feels like certain guns are waaaaaay better than others, situationally. I need to just start the game over with a fresh perspective though and give it another shake. Someday...
I am with you, doom 1 & 2 and 2016 are all in my top 10 all time favorites, eternal is kinda getting away form what makes doom great, doom 2016 struck a nice balance between an old school run and gun shooter and more modern shooters with upgrades and added depth.
Eternal takes it's gameplay mechanics too far, it has lost the wonderful simplicity of the old games and it really forces you to play the game in a very specific way to stand a chance at the higher difficulty levels, and the added platforming stuff is super lame and very out of place for a doom game.
I understand people who really liked the gameplay but for me it kinda stopped feeling like doom.
And there is way way too much uninteresting story, i much preferred 2016's optional story.
I still kinda enjoyed it but i thought doom 2016 was a 10/10 and eternal felt more like a solid 7.5.
I hope the next game is a back to basics reboot.
Eternal takes it's gameplay mechanics too far, it has lost the wonderful simplicity of the old games and it really forces you to play the game in a very specific way to stand a chance at the higher difficulty levels, and the added platforming stuff is super lame and very out of place for a doom game.
I understand people who really liked the gameplay but for me it kinda stopped feeling like doom.
And there is way way too much uninteresting story, i much preferred 2016's optional story.
I still kinda enjoyed it but i thought doom 2016 was a 10/10 and eternal felt more like a solid 7.5.
I hope the next game is a back to basics reboot.
No, each demon has a preferable way to execute it and this uses the entire weapon load.
The trick to the game is cycling through these options to maintain your killing spree
You do you. I completely understand where you are coming from. I think once you figure out the game flow and you start dictating the action it reaches heights higher than those of Doom 2016. That said, it is perfectly valid not to enjoy something that is popular or well liked by others. You don't need to spend precious time on something that is not bringing you joy.
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I initially felt the same way. Then I eventually realized it's the best FPS i have ever played.
Even Marauders are great!
Could not agree more. Gamers are so fucking boring they always need to be dragged kicking and screaming to something a bit different.
Even Marauders are great!
Could not agree more. Gamers are so fucking boring they always need to be dragged kicking and screaming to something a bit different.
Eternal will likely end up being my 2020 GOTY. Fucking incredible gameplay and combat design that feels incredibly rewarding. In 2016 it was easy to feel like a badass, but in Eternal, you have to earn it through refining your skills and utilizing the combat mechanics effectively. The story was definitely uneven but it worked well enough and it didn't bother me.
As soon as that one fella' showed up for the last act, I was way more on-board with the story.
After Eternal, I can't even go back to Doom 2016. I liked that game but now realize how much of a snooze fest it is after playing Eternal. My experience is on hardest non 1 life difficulties for both and this game has you utilizing almost everything in your arsenal and limit it in a way where you have to think about it, like I felt exhausted after some fights but in a good way. You do have to get into the rythym of it all if you want to actually progress too like making sure you remember you have flame up, both nades, ammo, SSG flame grapple up for ez 15 armor + mobility, etc. It's just really fun juggling it all at the same time compared to 2016's double shot SSG and siege mode railgun taking care of everything.
The Marauder is one of the worst enemies I've faced in an FPS before. It's fucking random, has way too much health, and completely stops the flow of the game to where the only viable weapons to kill it are the Super Shotgun and Ballista.
At first the grenades and especially flame belch were hard to incorporate into combat simply because I kept forgetting them, and it wasn't until near the end of the game where I started to feel comfortable with how Eternal wanted to play.
2016 was a much simpler game and thinking back to it I had much less trouble with that than Eternal. 2016 I think is an easy 10/10 but Eternal is at best an 8 for me.
The Marauder is just so bad it takes off a while point alone.
At first the grenades and especially flame belch were hard to incorporate into combat simply because I kept forgetting them, and it wasn't until near the end of the game where I started to feel comfortable with how Eternal wanted to play.
2016 was a much simpler game and thinking back to it I had much less trouble with that than Eternal. 2016 I think is an easy 10/10 but Eternal is at best an 8 for me.
The Marauder is just so bad it takes off a while point alone.
Are you referring to how certain weapons work best against specific enemies?
I haven't booted up the game in a few weeks, but that is pretty common and sound game design. I don't remember other weapons being invalid in Doom Eternal for specific enemies (but perhaps I'm forgetting something), I just remember there clearly being better weapons for the job, and find that type of design forces on the fly decision making, and can make things more intense. For example, I have one powerful enemy that is best killed X weapon, but 3 weaker enemies that are best killed with Y weapon, and have low health. Changing weapons might give them an opening to kill me, so which weapon do I choose?
A design that makes all weapons flat in effectiveness and equally good for everything spunds kind of...thoughtless. character action games like Devil May Cry and Ninja Gaiden tend to have much more choices within each weapon though. For example, perhaps specific combos work with one weapon for an enemy, but a jump attack is more effective with a different weapon.
Comparing Devil May Cry to Doom doesn't really work in that sense. In Doom, you only have two or three choices per weapon. I assume you are trying to say that the gulf in effectiveness for weapons in Doom Eternal is so great though, that any weapin outside of the ideal weapon is completely unusable, or so ineffective it's not worth using? I think that would be an interesting thing to test, and perhaps to even compare to other shooter games.
I think Eternal is the better game, but it also has a higher skill floor. A lot of people seem to struggle with the difficulty of the game.
The gameplay loop is still fun, but a lot of the new additions subtract from the experience:
- The extended platforming is ok, but can be buggy. The detection is anything but spot on, and you'll miss jumps becuase of it.
- The levels are overly long, and could easily be divided in two in most cases.
- The story is not very good in any way, and feels off tone a lot of the time.
- The marauder stops the gameplay loop flat on it's face, and is really poorly implemented.
- The new slowdown goop is another stopper, that just dosn't work well for the loop.
I'll say that the meathook is a really nice addition to the game. Personally I prefer Doom 2016, but can see the merrits of Eternal.
- The extended platforming is ok, but can be buggy. The detection is anything but spot on, and you'll miss jumps becuase of it.
- The levels are overly long, and could easily be divided in two in most cases.
- The story is not very good in any way, and feels off tone a lot of the time.
- The marauder stops the gameplay loop flat on it's face, and is really poorly implemented.
- The new slowdown goop is another stopper, that just dosn't work well for the loop.
I'll say that the meathook is a really nice addition to the game. Personally I prefer Doom 2016, but can see the merrits of Eternal.
I feel like Doom: Eternal is what Quake would have been if it continued
Too much Quake in my Doom. I dont like it.
Too much Quake in my Doom. I dont like it.
I died a little inside when the game teleported me into the chainsaw tutorial room. I only played through the first level but I'm not enjoying it like I did with 2016. I understand the combat loop, but in 2016 it felt like I was able to keep range more and only had to engage with the glory kill/chainsaw loop if I fucked something up. Being forced to engage with this loop sucks a lot of the fun out of the combat for me, and the platforming sections do absolutely nothing for me.
And god, the Hell Priests cutscene... ooof.
And god, the Hell Priests cutscene... ooof.
I wasn't a big fan of the story but i really liked the cutscenes where people were freaking out/being starstruck buy seeing doomguy, that stuff was pretty great.
Yup, it was fully possible to play doom 2016 as a classic doom game without the chainsaw ammo refills and the glory kills, in eternal you are very much forced to use all of the new tools to stand a chance on any higher difficulty levels, even though i "got" the gameplay loop of eternal pretty quickly i never found it particularly fun, i very much prefer the classic run and gun style of old doom.
Yup, it was fully possible to play doom 2016 as a classic doom game without the chainsaw ammo refills and the glory kills, in eternal you are very much forced to use all of the new tools to stand a chance on any higher difficulty levels, even though i "got" the gameplay loop of eternal pretty quickly i never found it particularly fun, i very much prefer the classic run and gun style of old doom.
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Easily one of the best games this generation and an absolutely incredible experience. It is so much better than DOOM 2016 and the best FPS this generation.
I feel ya op. The gunplay was fun and challenging but the platforming sucked the fun out of it for me. Felt like I was playing a platformer with shooting elements rather than vice versa. Played up until the cultist base and then quit and went back to resident evil 3
My experience on the PS4 Pro was another game that caused another super loud fan, but with much better load times, too many combat mechanics, and too many enemies spawning in and moving so quickly that more often then not I was taking damage from being enclosed by enemies and unable to freely move. The pace of the game and its movement seems designed for mouse and keyboard, not gamepad, so I was often enveloped and clusterfucked in close quarters by enemies, short of ammo, flailing rather than dominating. The polar opposite of the Doom 2016 experience.
Doom Eternal is over-tuned towards PC pacing, or towards having intrinsic muscle-memory for every action and cooldown fully integrated to enjoy, neither of which is satisfying for a casual player on the console, an audience this game was certainly not made for, and the game suffers for it. I'm sure I could mitigate these issues by playing so much that each mechanic becomes instinctive through repetition, but I'm just not inclined to set aside that time for Doom. Its not what I look for in Doom.
And yeah, part of the charm of Doom 2016 was putting the story and lore to the side and focusing on exploring and fighting. For the love of all things gaming I don't understand why they made the choice to put the story and lore to the forefront to the extent that they do. Its a mindboggling step back and an unwelcome one.
Never finished it, and doubt I ever will.
Doom Eternal is over-tuned towards PC pacing, or towards having intrinsic muscle-memory for every action and cooldown fully integrated to enjoy, neither of which is satisfying for a casual player on the console, an audience this game was certainly not made for, and the game suffers for it. I'm sure I could mitigate these issues by playing so much that each mechanic becomes instinctive through repetition, but I'm just not inclined to set aside that time for Doom. Its not what I look for in Doom.
And yeah, part of the charm of Doom 2016 was putting the story and lore to the side and focusing on exploring and fighting. For the love of all things gaming I don't understand why they made the choice to put the story and lore to the forefront to the extent that they do. Its a mindboggling step back and an unwelcome one.
Never finished it, and doubt I ever will.
I loved 2016, agree with your points on Eternal. I just couldn't wait for it to end, the final boss was awful and the game gets worse as it goes on. Forcing a boring story was dumb and to lost the subtly and direction of the first. Absolutely hated the platforming, awful addition.
Removing Marauders, removing The platforming, remove The shitty boss fights( especially The last one).. tune The damage you take on normal difficulty, increase ammo count. all would make this so much better. But instead those things knocked down the game to a 6.5- weak 7 / 10 for me.
If shooting demons didnt feel so satisfying and exploring levels for secrets apart from platformering parts weren't so fun I wouldn't have stuck with it. Also the soundtrack and presentation elevates it.
I booted this up on my X1X and gave it a shot, after originally playing it on mp PC and a 2080ti.
First thought: Gawd damn this game still looks incredible on X1X. Easily one of the best looking console games I've ever played, and at a buttery smooth 60fps no less.
2nd thought: I can totally see why cobsole players feel a bit hobbled here. Playing with a controller, while possible, and I was getting used to it, is just slower, and the game was definitely designed as a high percision KB&M shooter. I still loved my time with it though.
ID owes it to console players to patch in KB&M support if they haven't already.
First thought: Gawd damn this game still looks incredible on X1X. Easily one of the best looking console games I've ever played, and at a buttery smooth 60fps no less.
2nd thought: I can totally see why cobsole players feel a bit hobbled here. Playing with a controller, while possible, and I was getting used to it, is just slower, and the game was definitely designed as a high percision KB&M shooter. I still loved my time with it though.
ID owes it to console players to patch in KB&M support if they haven't already.
Everyday i see this thread and think "i cannot say anything, i didn't played the game", well, now i can, and well ... i loved the game, it's a upgrade in every sense over doom 2016, wich is one of my favorite games of all times, so, i'm happy to discover that this thread does not apply to me
I actually love the platforming because it does break up the level design.
But yeah, the boss fights were bad, and Normal difficulty was absurdly difficult. I replayed the game on ITYTD and I realized the problem is that every enemy is just naturally super aggressive.
Ammo should have been doubled across the board and heavy enemies should only take 2 energy from the chainsaw. It being either 1 or 3 just makes me not use the chainsaw as much.
Doom Eternal is a bit too bloated and tries to do a lot more than Doom 2016 and I think that is why the balance is off.
Also the game is designed around KB+M. Playing on Xbox and the first level it was easy to feel.
Yeah it's definitely not designed with controller in mind, too fast paced movement and you need to be accurate with your shots to hit vital parts of some enemies.
What I liked most with Eternal is that there are some elements and such that are clear callbacks and nostalgia to Doom 2.
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I think they could afford to loosen up ammo restrictions and the rock, paper, scissors nature of the moment-to-moment combat just a little. Doom Eternal is an incredible achievement, but it's just a little too mechanical and stiff for me. It forces you into certain "optimal" moment-to-moment approaches that make it feel extremely "gamey" in a way I don't enjoy. But I think it would take some pretty minor tweaks to get it there, and the combat in general, on Nightmare, is just sublime.
I actually agree with you somewhat. It's strange. I like the gameplay of Eternal. I enjoy having to think about how I use all of my options and not just a few specific mechanics.
I don't even dislike the story either, I actually kinda like what I played of it.
I don't know, something just felt, off, about the game. Not sure if maybe I wasn't in the right mood/mindset to play it, but it felt like a chore, which is weird since I can't put my finger on any one issue. I LOVED 2016, which is what makes this disappointing.
I don't even dislike the story either, I actually kinda like what I played of it.
I don't know, something just felt, off, about the game. Not sure if maybe I wasn't in the right mood/mindset to play it, but it felt like a chore, which is weird since I can't put my finger on any one issue. I LOVED 2016, which is what makes this disappointing.
Something felt off about eternal to me, It was good just missing the magic of the first one. Like I feel that with more options paradoxically created less options. I guess I'm saying instead of different fight arenas with different feels like in Doom 2016. Eternal was the Same fight feel repeated but continually scaled up. Fire -> grenade -> shotgun -> all explosives-> fire -> grenade if no fire/grenade wait with laser was my optimal strategy. The Slayer dudes did switch it up but then you figure out it's a good strat is dodge -> laser.
Also, those little voice logs and the demonic PA announcer (I guess) was kind of not tonally congruent with my idea of the series since DOOM 2016.
Also, those little voice logs and the demonic PA announcer (I guess) was kind of not tonally congruent with my idea of the series since DOOM 2016.
It's a gameplay loop that unfortunately focuses too much on resource management instead of letting you enjoy the resources you have and combat. Combat is secondary to resource management.
