Good to see indies thriving on all platforms, but hopefully it doesn't wind up being a "fool me once" situation and the support is actually genuine and not out of need to pad Spartacus.
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[IGN] Sony Wants to Repair its Relationship With its Indie Partners
- Thread starter --R
- Start date
I really wish the console makers took some notes from Steam. Empower indie developers and give them the tools they need to succeed.
Yea....part of me thinks this too, they only need them cuz itll take a while for 3rd parties to ramp up on the PS5 only train
What notes should they take from Steam specifically? There is an inherent lower bar to entry on PC that consoles will never have by virtue of 1. Requiring dev kits, and 2. Requiring a more rigorous certification process so that games don't brick consoles
It is if you agree to the terms and conditions of the storefront I guess? And you don't really have a choice not to if you want to sell on the PlayStation store.
Although I can't think of any other digital storefront I've ever worked with as a distributor that doesn't let you retain control of pricing and sales etc. I feel like it must've been a miscommunication.
I feel like we've had developers say either Xbox/PlayStation are great or bad depending on who you talk to. Hopefully they can be more consistent going forward.
I feel this is the primary reason they are taking action now.
Yeah he joined Sony in 2019. At the end of 2019, a whole bunch of new execs came in and you could tell based on how much Sony is changing.
Both companies are still miles behind Steam and Switch so yeah both got work to do.
That quote is about discoverability. He goes on:
Right now, all the console manufacturers act as gate-keepers. Xbox or Nintendo or PlayStation has to choose you to be included in a Direct or State of Play or as part of Game Pass. Outside of that, they don't seem to provide much help. I want to see them include some of the same discoverability tools as Steam does. There's a reason why Steam gets so much praise.
Then alot of us felt that way too. Especially when Sony flat out depended on them early in the PS4's life to have games for people to buy. PS4 launch was a desert and they didn't have BC to depend on.
Watch all indie games be automatically a part of the Spartacus system from day 1. Any games that come to PS4/PS5 as indie games will automatically be enrolled in it and Sony would then reimburse. Would be nice, but including it all day 1 can be tricky.
I hope they do. PS4's indie output was amazing. It's been disappointing how many good indie games have been Switch / Xbox and not PS5/4 in the last year.
Great point. We need more people commending this level of work.
Let's See one of the head of indies, someone who has been working at an indie, Head of PS Studios someone who has been a game dev. Very good hires lol. People who have been in the trenches.
A platform holder should never reach the point where they are "too busy" to help set up a store page or put a game on sale.
I really hope Sony gives them the ability to choose when their games go on sale ASAP. Having to be invited to a sale in order for your game to be on sale is bullshit.
Also, hopefully with Spartacus we'll be getting a steady stream of day 1 indies on the service.
Also, hopefully with Spartacus we'll be getting a steady stream of day 1 indies on the service.
Does Nintendo have a good reputation? I always thought they were pretty stringent in the way they handled third parties.
And I don't feel steam is comparable. They don't hold the keys to development hardware like the other players do, and they're essentially the Wild West in terms of what they'll list.
That's good to hear. More improvements are needed but sounds like Sony is taking the complaints seriously. They need to get things back to the way they were early in the PS4 gen.
The great Switch eShop where devs can't put their games on sale below $1.99, unless they go through the weird system for discounts to those that already own one of their games. All to protect the sanctity of the top sellers lists.
There's no point in complaining unless it goes to the people who need to hear and that's what happened.
I know a lot of people throw about the "arrogant Sony" nonsense from the transition to PS5, but I don't think it's like they've done something irredeemable, it's just some course correction needed and a public space is the best way to correct it.
I know a lot of people throw about the "arrogant Sony" nonsense from the transition to PS5, but I don't think it's like they've done something irredeemable, it's just some course correction needed and a public space is the best way to correct it.
Interesting this comes out on the day of the Indie world Showcase announcement. I think what sort of messed things up, at least in my world, was that most indie games aren't graphically intensive. I had been buying Indie games on PS4 initially but realized this and starting asking myself why would I intentionally tether myself to a television to play games that run just fine on something like the Switch. Over the last few years I've almost exclusively purchased indie games on Switch. If PlayStation can push more graphically intensive indie games like Kena or Sifu, that are compelling purchases, and release them more frequently, I think we'll see the PlayStation thrive more.
Indies take the chance, once the PS5 library is better established they just forget about you again.
If I were an indie developer, I wouldn't trust Sony as far as I could throw them, what's stopping them from doing this type of shenanigans again? The minute everything is squared away with their supply issues, what's stopping them from putting Indies on the back burner again? Not saying Indie dev's shouldn't work with Sony again but they need to be very careful with how they work with them again, I feel.
Think I'm old enough to now just see how cyclical shit like this is and just shrug, wondering when they'll become a terrible business partner again.
Wow, yeah, imagine. That would be check and mate. Please do this feasible thing, Sony.
Lol it's the corporate indie cycle.
MS, Nintendo, Sony.. they all go through this cycle of supporting indies and then becoming arrogant.. and then regretting it and try to win back their support again and..
Yeah.
MS, Nintendo, Sony.. they all go through this cycle of supporting indies and then becoming arrogant.. and then regretting it and try to win back their support again and..
Yeah.
I noticed that too. And I would be crushed as well if I was making plans for it, but had to get through all this bureaucratic stuff of timing and assessing, and then the article comes out and now I look like a terrible person.
Not criticizing the fact that journalists covered this, as it's essential because you just can't know if they have plans for it or not and that's especially the case if you asked for comment and you were also on the back end, but for those specific people who reached out man, I do kind of sympathize because sometimes I do see construction and discussion of initiatives behind the scenes, and I'll see consumers criticizing what those plans are going to fix, but I can't really say anything yet because I'm not in charge of anything!
To illustrate the point, here's Steamdb's list of the top 250 highest rated releases of 2021 based on both the proportion of positive Steam user reviews and the number of reviews. Observe how this list is dominated by indie games, most of which aren't available for any console (yet).
Ultimately, I do also think that this is going to be stuff that Sony was going to have to do prior to the launch of the premium PlayStation Plus subscriptions, since I would expect indie games would very much be the content backbone for the service, in a similar manner to Game Pass.
'You are required to make your game available for our subscribers' is a fantastic way to scare off most indie developers from your platform, regardless of how they're compensated.
It wouldn't surprise me if there was an explanation for this no more nefarious than the indie relations team at Sony pushing for these changes for a long time, and the greater Playstation organization just not prioritizing it until that article came out (either because they genuinely didn't realize, or because they felt it didn't matter unless it became a PR issue, or because this now ties into some other strategic objective and the timing just happened to line up). It's amazing how quickly things can change when someone high up in the org actually decides to devote time and effort to something.
I think we've heard this from smaller publishers before, both in the context of individual sales and in terms of broader store policies (ex. you can no longer discount PS3/Vita games or earlier because Sony won't let you). Sony doesn't restrict PRICING, which is why some indie publishers were advertising Vita sales recently; they weren't actually sales, they were permanent price drops. But sales do seem to be an issue still.
Complaining works!
Be as loud as you need to be because it's about the only thing that make things change.
I don't think there ever was anything nefarious with Sony having terrible support for indies but it definitely should have been fixed aeons ago before indies started complaining.
Also since you can wishlist and download games you bought, you should be able to score them if only by a system similar to what Netflix offers.
And tags, publisher's self tag and user ones too.
Steam really is ahead of the curve.
Be as loud as you need to be because it's about the only thing that make things change.
I don't think there ever was anything nefarious with Sony having terrible support for indies but it definitely should have been fixed aeons ago before indies started complaining.
Also since you can wishlist and download games you bought, you should be able to score them if only by a system similar to what Netflix offers.
And tags, publisher's self tag and user ones too.
Steam really is ahead of the curve.
Yep this is my guess as well. Organizational reshuffling/restructuring, turnover + new hires, new store front etc., takes time. But add pandemic to that mix? Yeah I can see why they pushed this to the back burner until later. Ideally, they shouldn't have but guessing higher ups wanted to address these issues asap. This is a good ending for all involved.
Yeah, I can see where some communications lines got a bit cut because of the turnover of management in key areas, but its not surprising they had a lot in the works, but I can see why they may want to be secretive about it but I think they could find a better medium which sounds like thats what the case is.
Yeah pretty much thats what it was imo. seems like some of their stuff def prob has taken longer to get going and being set back during the pandemic.
This is good news obviously, but I don't look to Sony for indies anymore anyway.
I think it's more that the Switch store is a fucking nightmare, so if the sales page is clogged up with shovelware it makes it even less usable than it is now.
I think it's more that the Switch store is a fucking nightmare, so if the sales page is clogged up with shovelware it makes it even less usable than it is now.