Deleted member 59955

User requested account closure
Banned
Sep 14, 2019
2,004
I've always held this opinion that Rocksteady did a poor job with Batman as a character in Arkham Knight. I thought they did a fine job with him in the previous 2 games, but then in Arkham Knight he's just alot worse.

The main reason why I didn't like Rocksteady's version of Batman in Arkham Knight is mainly because he lacks character and personality. Throughout the whole story even when emotional events happens, he always has the same monotone voice and personality. It's like watching a dead robot talk. He's never emotionally different in the story. He's just so wooden. In the other games, he had some actual personality to him to make him likable. In Arkham Knight, he has 0. I don't know if this was Kevin Conroy's voice acting or just the writing.

Another reason is that he acts like a douchebag to all of his family and friends throughout the whole game. He's always telling them that he doesn't need their help even though he clearly does. And this one might be a nitpick, but he's always constaly saying that "tonight's the end" and this doesn't make any sense. How could Batman possibly know that this is final night and that he won't go on? He doesn't know. It didn't feel natural.

Oh another thing I should mention. Batman acts like an idiot a few times. Like when he uses a batarang to locate Ace Chemicals to find chemicals despite being next to a chemical factory. Or when he lets Scarecrow capture him just because and doesn't resist.

I think WB Montreal portrayed Batman much better as a character with Arkham Origins. In that game he has some character and personality to him. He's arrogant, emotional, brutal. He ignores Alfred. But then throughout the story he actually changes and learns. He learns how to treat his friends/family better. He learns that he can't do it all on his own. I enjoyed Roger Craig Smith's voice acting more aswell. Batman just felt more like a real person in Arkham Origins.

Batman was awesome in Arkham Asylum and City too. He had some personality in those games.

I don't know if this is an unpopular or popular opinion or not. Anyone agree?
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,033
Milwaukee, WI
Let's talk about writers.

Batman The Animated Series : Paul Dini
Superman: The Animated Series: Paul Dini
Batman Beyond: Paul Dini
Justice League: Paul Dini
Justice League Unlimited: Paul Dini

Arkham Asylum: Paul Dini
Arkham City: Paul Dini

Arkham Knight: NOT Paul Dini
 

Hugare

Banned
Aug 31, 2018
1,853
Let's talk about writers.

Batman The Animated Series : Paul Dini
Superman: The Animated Series: Paul Dini
Batman Beyond: Paul Dini
Justice League: Paul Dini
Justice League Unlimited: Paul Dini

Arkham Asylum: Paul Dini
Arkham City: Paul Dini

Arkham Knight: NOT Paul Dini
First post hit the nail on its head

I don't think that the story was bad, but yeah, Batman as a character was very lacking
 

Spinluck

▲ Legend ▲
Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
28,756
Chicago
I can't remember all of the game's story but I remember thinking Batman was kind of incompetent and flat in it.
 

Betty

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,604
The part where near the start he's putting in those missile looking things to stop a bomb or whatever, that was a really great Batman moment.
 

Baccus

Banned
Dec 4, 2018
5,307
Let's talk about writers.

Batman The Animated Series : Paul Dini
Superman: The Animated Series: Paul Dini
Batman Beyond: Paul Dini
Justice League: Paul Dini
Justice League Unlimited: Paul Dini

Arkham Asylum: Paul Dini
Arkham City: Paul Dini

Arkham Knight: NOT Paul Dini
Arkham Origins: Not Paul Dini. Still the best written Batman video game by far.

Not really an excuse.
 

Rackham

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,532
Having just played through the story, I understand what you're saying. I honestly felt like he was acting like that because he was just tired. I had other issues with the game.
 
Jul 24, 2018
10,423
I've always enjoyed how Paul Dini writes Batman, while the story in the first two Arkham games weren't all that great, Batman was pretty great I agree.
 

Stooge

Member
Oct 29, 2017
11,423
Let's talk about writers.

Batman The Animated Series : Paul Dini
Superman: The Animated Series: Paul Dini
Batman Beyond: Paul Dini
Justice League: Paul Dini
Justice League Unlimited: Paul Dini

Arkham Asylum: Paul Dini
Arkham City: Paul Dini

Arkham Knight: NOT Paul Dini

Yeah, the plot stayed really flat and had no arch. By the end of AA and AC Batman felt like he had just had the living shit knocked out of him and it felt epic AF.

AK was fine, but never felt like it escalated well.
 

Keldroc

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,064
Let's talk about writers.

Batman The Animated Series : Paul Dini
Superman: The Animated Series: Paul Dini
Batman Beyond: Paul Dini
Justice League: Paul Dini
Justice League Unlimited: Paul Dini

Arkham Asylum: Paul Dini
Arkham City: Paul Dini

Arkham Knight: NOT Paul Dini

Bingo. Knight is all kinds of weird in a number of bad ways. Biggest disappointment of the generation for me.
 

Fisty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,465
It felt like Kevin was recording his lines while stopping off at the vending machine between other projects. Maybe it was the direction but he felt almost absent
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 59955

User requested account closure
Banned
Sep 14, 2019
2,004
It felt like Kevin was recording his lines while stopping off at the vending machine between other projects. Maybe it was the direction but he felt almost absent

I think it was the direction. Kevin came back in Injustice 2 and did a good job as Batman there. It's like the opposite of how he is in AK. Tho there were a few times where his line delivery in AK kinda fell flat. Like when he did the Vengeance line.
 

Asbsand

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,901
Denmark
Arkham Knight: NOT Paul Dini
Instead we got Martin Lancaster. The freelance guy who wrote Crysis. His writing is just decent.

But yeah moreso it felt like the depiction in AK suffered from the team at WB and Rocksteady going full on dudebro about the game they were making.
It felt like Kevin was recording his lines while stopping off at the vending machine between other projects. Maybe it was the direction but he felt almost absent
That's the writing. Paul Dini writes in a way that's way more shortform. Martin Lancaster tends to drone on and his script clearly lacks editing. I find good writers know to be succinct and bad writers let their ideas run off.
 
Oct 24, 2019
6,560
I've always held this opinion that Rocksteady did a poor job with Batman as a character in Arkham Knight. I thought they did a fine job with him in the previous 2 games, but then in Arkham Knight he's just alot worse.

The main reason why I didn't like Rocksteady's version of Batman in Arkham Knight is mainly because he lacks character and personality. Throughout the whole story even when emotional events happens, he always has the same monotone voice and personality. It's like watching a dead robot talk. He's never emotionally different in the story. He's just so wooden. In the other games, he had some actual personality to him to make him likable. In Arkham Knight, he has 0. I don't know if this was Kevin Conroy's voice acting or just the writing.

Another reason is that he acts like a douchebag to all of his family and friends throughout the whole game. He's always telling them that he doesn't need their help even though he clearly does. And this one might be a nitpick, but he's always constaly saying that "tonight's the end" and this doesn't make any sense. How could Batman possibly know that this is final night and that he won't go on? He doesn't know. It didn't feel natural.

Oh another thing I should mention. Batman acts like an idiot a few times. Like when he uses a batarang to locate Ace Chemicals to find chemicals despite being next to a chemical factory. Or when he lets Scarecrow capture him just because and doesn't resist.

I think WB Montreal portrayed Batman much better as a character with Arkham Origins. In that game he has some character and personality to him. He's arrogant, emotional, brutal. He ignores Alfred. But then throughout the story he actually changes and learns. He learns how to treat his friends/family better. He learns that he can't do it all on his own. I enjoyed Roger Craig Smith's voice acting more aswell. Batman just felt more like a real person in Arkham Origins.

Batman was awesome in Arkham Asylum and City too. He had some personality in those games.

I don't know if this is an unpopular or popular opinion or not. Anyone agree?

I just replayed Arkham Asylum recently and he's completely wooden in that too. I think I just don't like Conroy's take on Batman much
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 59955

User requested account closure
Banned
Sep 14, 2019
2,004
I just replayed Arkham Asylum recently and he's completely wooden in that too. I think I just don't like Conroy's take on Batman much

There's a decent amount of times where his voice changes tune throughout the game. He even has some sarcastic lines. Plus he had emotion in his voice when he was angry. Like when he talks to Ivy.
 

Deleted member 23212

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
11,225
I've been playing Arkham Asylum and he seems pretty one-dimensional to me. He's always just "I'll handle, I'll do it, don't come along because I can do it".
 

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
43,289
I've always held this opinion that Rocksteady did a poor job with Batman as a character in Arkham Knight. I thought they did a fine job with him in the previous 2 games, but then in Arkham Knight he's just alot worse.

The main reason why I didn't like Rocksteady's version of Batman in Arkham Knight is mainly because he lacks character and personality. Throughout the whole story even when emotional events happens, he always has the same monotone voice and personality. It's like watching a dead robot talk. He's never emotionally different in the story. He's just so wooden. In the other games, he had some actual personality to him to make him likable. In Arkham Knight, he has 0. I don't know if this was Kevin Conroy's voice acting or just the writing.

Another reason is that he acts like a douchebag to all of his family and friends throughout the whole game. He's always telling them that he doesn't need their help even though he clearly does.

In other words, he's acting like Batman a known reclusive dickhead whom all Batfamily eventually leave because they get fed up with his bullshit.

And this one might be a nitpick, but he's always constaly saying that "tonight's the end" and this doesn't make any sense. How could Batman possibly know that this is final night and that he won't go on? He doesn't know. It didn't feel natural.

Did you miss the part where Batman was injected with Joker's poisoned blood in AC which ended up turning people mad and thus secretly knew the whole time that he would go insane? Then we eventually learn that there is no crew since Henry was faking it the whole time. Batman knew this would be hist last night even before Scarecrow forced his hand.

Oh another thing I should mention. Batman acts like an idiot a few times. Like when he uses a batarang to locate Ace Chemicals to find chemicals despite being next to a chemical factory. Or when he lets Scarecrow capture him just because and doesn't resist.

He didn't know where exactly Scarecrow was manufacturing his chemicals, there is more than one plant in Gotham to manufacture chemical.

I think WB Montreal portrayed Batman much better as a character with Arkham Origins. In that game he has some character and personality to him. He's arrogant, emotional, brutal. He ignores Alfred. But then throughout the story he actually changes and learns. He learns how to treat his friends/family better. He learns that he can't do it all on his own. I enjoyed Roger Craig Smith's voice acting more aswell. Batman just felt more like a real person in Arkham Origins.

Lastly, the whole point of AK is that Batman has slowly become more reserved and isolated following the events of AC and Talia's death. This is mentioned a number of times, he's purposefully more robotic and withdrawn. You may not like it, but it was intentional.

Was flabbergasted that he never figured out who the Knight was and that it had to be revealed to him.

Eh, Jason Todd being beaten to death by the Joker was pretty traumatic for Batman, it's understandable he'd have a large blindspot there.
 

Garlador

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
14,131
My friend and I were talking about this the other day.

The Batman in Arkham Knight is one resigned to a bad end and the villains are just game obstacles to overcome.

It misunderstood Batman as the dark, brooding dark knight that is all about the fear and violence - an emotionally detached stoic robot - and it missed one of his DEFINING traits: his kindness and compassion.
Du5S6dNWoAA7jRm.jpg

EQlDPme.jpg

tumblr_inline_pqg2hwY8Xa1vigdcn_1280.jpg

a6555316d1d8cd021f0732f4e59513db.jpg


A Batman without compassion, kindness, empathy, and the belief that there is good in even his worst villains is not a genuine Batman.
 

Fisty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,465
I think it was the direction. Kevin came back in Injustice 2 and did a good job as Batman there. It's like the opposite of how he is in AK. Tho there were a few times where his line delivery in AK kinda fell flat. Like when he did the Vengeance line.

Yeah I hesitate to pin it on him, since you can tell in the previous ones he maybe wasnt given great dialogue but he still had the presence and command in the scenes where he needed it. In AK he was kinda like a Venom Snake in MGSV lol
 
Oct 26, 2017
16,433
Mushroom Kingdom
Let's talk about writers.

Batman The Animated Series : Paul Dini
Superman: The Animated Series: Paul Dini
Batman Beyond: Paul Dini
Justice League: Paul Dini
Justice League Unlimited: Paul Dini

Arkham Asylum: Paul Dini
Arkham City: Paul Dini

Arkham Knight: NOT Paul Dini

FPOTY contender.

OP had a good write up and you just chase down blocked his layup lol
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,033
Milwaukee, WI
A Batman without compassion, kindness, empathy, and the belief that there is good in even his worst villains is not a genuine Batman.

He meets Mr. Freeze and tells him he's sorry for what happened to his wife.
He begs Two Face to think of his family.
He reminds clayface of how much he loved acting

Batman wants to help everyone. If he didn't, he'd be the punisher.
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,760
Eh, Jason Todd being beaten to death by the Joker was pretty traumatic for Batman, it's understandable he'd have a large blindspot there.
I mean yea but still it's Batman. After everything, it should've been that he had figured it out and was in denial about it instead of "Whaaaaaaa it's you?"

My friend and I were talking about this the other day.

The Batman in Arkham Knight is one resigned to a bad end and the villains are just game obstacles to overcome.

It misunderstood Batman as the dark, brooding dark knight that is all about the fear and violence - an emotionally detached stoic robot - and it missed one of his DEFINING traits: his kindness and compassion.
Du5S6dNWoAA7jRm.jpg

EQlDPme.jpg

tumblr_inline_pqg2hwY8Xa1vigdcn_1280.jpg

a6555316d1d8cd021f0732f4e59513db.jpg


A Batman without compassion, kindness, empathy, and the belief that there is good in even his worst villains is not a genuine Batman.
I wouldn't say he lacked compassion or empathy entirely. In the intro of the game he was acting brutal and doing shit like this:
b18fs0nnucnk0gyjemu5.gif


But his first reaction to Jason Todd wasn't violence, he tried his damndest to bring his son back.
 

Kupo Kupopo

Member
Jul 6, 2019
2,959
imo, the hero/star of arkham knight was gotham city itself, a truly stunning dystopia, & one of my favorite open worlds of the generation. &, other than the batmobile, the gameplay is great. everything else? story, reveals, major villain? pretty trashy...
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,033
Milwaukee, WI
Have you never read any Batman comics before? This is the most Batman-like thing in the whole game.

I see where you're coming from but it just doesn't work in Arkham Knight. Batman, even at his most sociopathic, has motivation. In Knight, he just has circumstances. It feels like Batman isn't thinking, he's already read the script and can see the future. So the conflict has no back and forth, it's all argument for show without a philosophy behind it.
 

Keym

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
9,246
Yeah but considering one of Batman's lessons learned in Arkham Origins is how to work with others and treat them better, this doesn't make much sense in the Arkhamverse.
He's being overprotective of his family, just like he's always been, even more so now that the stakes are higher than ever and that he feels extremely guilty about Jason's death.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 59955

User requested account closure
Banned
Sep 14, 2019
2,004
My friend and I were talking about this the other day.

The Batman in Arkham Knight is one resigned to a bad end and the villains are just game obstacles to overcome.

It misunderstood Batman as the dark, brooding dark knight that is all about the fear and violence - an emotionally detached stoic robot - and it missed one of his DEFINING traits: his kindness and compassion.
Du5S6dNWoAA7jRm.jpg

EQlDPme.jpg

tumblr_inline_pqg2hwY8Xa1vigdcn_1280.jpg

a6555316d1d8cd021f0732f4e59513db.jpg


A Batman without compassion, kindness, empathy, and the belief that there is good in even his worst villains is not a genuine Batman.

I want to see this side of Batman's character more in the new game. In the Killing Joke he even offers to help The Joker out and to help fix him.
 

Chaos2Frozen

Member
Nov 3, 2017
28,167
My friend and I were talking about this the other day.

The Batman in Arkham Knight is one resigned to a bad end and the villains are just game obstacles to overcome.

It misunderstood Batman as the dark, brooding dark knight that is all about the fear and violence - an emotionally detached stoic robot - and it missed one of his DEFINING traits: his kindness and compassion.
Du5S6dNWoAA7jRm.jpg

EQlDPme.jpg

tumblr_inline_pqg2hwY8Xa1vigdcn_1280.jpg

a6555316d1d8cd021f0732f4e59513db.jpg


A Batman without compassion, kindness, empathy, and the belief that there is good in even his worst villains is not a genuine Batman.

I think ever since Christopher Nolan's movie everyone wants to take Batman down that dark direction.

To be fair, even I forgot this side of him and I absolutely loved the cartoon as a kid.
 

Deleted member 34949

Account closed at user request
Banned
Nov 30, 2017
19,101
Yeah, I'm not the biggest fan of how he's written in Knight. On one hand, the events of City definitely fucked with his head a bit, and his mind state in Knight is a logical extension of that, but... c'mon. Stoic and standoffish is one thing, but having the personality of a sock puppet is another.

Don't even get me started on how they wasted a really good potential Jason story but decided to go with a lamer version of Under the Hood. Jason reemerging in a world where Joker is actually dead and Batman is (publicly) believed to have killed him could've made for some interesting stuff.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 59955

User requested account closure
Banned
Sep 14, 2019
2,004
Yeah, I'm not the biggest fan of how he's written in Knight. On one hand, the events of City definitely fucked with his head a bit, and his mind state in Knight is a logical extension of that, but... c'mon. Stoic and standoffish is one thing, but having the personality of a sock puppet is another.

Don't even get me started on how they wasted a really good potential Jason story but decided to go with a lamer version of Under the Hood. Jason reemerging in a world where Joker is actually dead and Batman is (publicly) believed to have killed him could've made for some interesting stuff.

Most of the story elements were wasted. Like everything with Scarecrow.
 

Asbsand

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,901
Denmark
I mean yea but still it's Batman. After everything, it should've been that he had figured it out and was in denial about it instead of "Whaaaaaaa it's you?"


I wouldn't say he lacked compassion or empathy entirely. In the intro of the game he was acting brutal and doing shit like this:
b18fs0nnucnk0gyjemu5.gif


But his first reaction to Jason Todd wasn't violence, he tried his damndest to bring his son back.
And then they ruined it with one liners.
 

NinjaBoiX

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
718
I just didn't like the game full stop, played it for an hour or so and just gave up trying to have fun with it.

Just a dull environment where everything is dark wet and shiny, didn't vibe off the batmobile gameplay and aside from that you've got the combat which is ok I guess.

Playing Spiderman now and it's far more appealing to me, I'm having a blast with it!