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The Unsent

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,494
I always thought there's a weird inner contradiction in From games' refusal for options. People say that the reason is that From wants to give a specific experience which will be compromised with customized difficulty, but that's missing the point that each person has different attributes that affect his experience like reaction time, hand-eye coordination, experience with action games, ability to focus for long periods, or whatever. If From truly wanted everyone to have the same experience then they would have to tailor the game for people who have a slower reaction time by slowing down animations slightly, allow colorblind options, allow to pause, etc.

Say two people (let's say neither has major disabilities, because that's a different argument) beat Sekiro, one of them had a super difficult time trying every fight over and over and grinding for drops and cheesing everything he could cheese slowly and thoroughly. And the other just breezed through the game by being innately talented with action games. Is it intentional that they had such different experiences? Are both of their experiences "correct Sekiro experiences"? If so why can't the first person access the second person's experience?
You make a great point. I don't want to demand options, but you're right, experiences will always be different as it's never as simple as one director's vision applying to everyone.
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,559
Sounds good. If there was an easy mode, I'd probably play Sekiro, I don't have time to do bosses over and over again.

Some of you guys are funny. I completed Bloodborne and only parried once or twice, some of you would claim a non authentic Bloodborne run as I didn't bother to learn a 'key' mechanic.
 

Fredrik

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,003
Cool! I see no problem with this, it's like using save state functionality in old games, better use of the limited time we have for games, or life in general.
 

kiryyuu

Banned
Dec 23, 2019
63
Good for you OP. You had fun even though the game beat you (imo), and that's all that matters honestly.
 

MegaSackman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,836
Argentina
I always thought there's a weird inner contradiction in From games' refusal for options. People say that the reason is that From wants to give a specific "vision" which will be compromised with customized difficulty, but that's missing the point that each person has different attributes that affect his experience like reaction time, hand-eye coordination, experience with action games, ability to focus for long periods, or whatever. If From truly wanted everyone to have the same experience then they would have to tailor the game for people who have a slower reaction time by slowing down animations slightly, allow colorblind options, allow to pause, etc.

Say two people (let's say neither has major disabilities, because that's a different argument) beat Sekiro, one of them had a super difficult time due to slower cognitive abilities, trying every fight over and over and grinding for drops and cheesing everything he could cheese slowly and thoroughly. And the other just breezed through the game by being innately talented with action games. Is it intentional that they had such different experiences? Are both of their experiences "correct Sekiro experiences" of From's "vision"? If so why can't the first person access the second person's experience?

I can't say for sure what From vision is, they do add some ways to break the game so go figure but what I say is that they should be allowed to do the game the way they want to, they didn't even lie to you while selling it. You could tell them they could get more people, more money, and whatnot but if they don't want to do it it's their right I guess.
 

Farrac

Member
Nov 3, 2017
2,082
Alcalá de Henares, Spain
I always thought there's a weird inner contradiction in From games' refusal for options. People say that the reason is that From wants to give a specific "vision" which will be compromised with customized difficulty, but that's missing the point that each person has different attributes that affect his experience like reaction time, hand-eye coordination, experience with action games, ability to focus for long periods, or whatever. If From truly wanted everyone to have the same experience then they would have to tailor the game for people who have a slower reaction time by slowing down animations slightly, allow colorblind options, allow to pause, etc.

Say two people (let's say neither has major disabilities, because that's a different argument) beat Sekiro, one of them had a super difficult time due to slower cognitive abilities, trying every fight over and over and grinding for drops and cheesing everything he could cheese slowly and thoroughly. And the other just breezed through the game by being innately talented with action games. Is it intentional that they had such different experiences? Are both of their experiences "correct Sekiro experiences" of From's "vision"? If so why can't the first person access the second person's experience?
This is very important and not mentioned enought times. My girlfriend is playing Fallen Order right now in a lower difficulty and she is having a very similar experience to mine precisely because she can play one more suited to her.
The only thing that gets me about mods like these is that it feels like they could be more straightforward.

Like, couldn't you just turn on infinite health instead? Wouldn't that give more or less the same experience? Would that really be less fun, and if so, why? Maybe it's just me, but if I'm going to mess with a game in that way it feels better to just break it the whole way.
I sort of agree with you. I regret how the discussion of difficulty options has revolved around an "easy mode" instead of more interesting ways to allow for an easier experience while inciting challenge.
 
OP
OP
newmoneytrash

newmoneytrash

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,981
Melbourne, Australia
The boss hit you more or less double the time you hit him, and you even allowed some very telegraphed attacks in the third phase.
If you feel you got the experience and you enjoyed the game for what is worth for you that's good and all but I don't think that is how the final boss was meant to be (even in an easier difficulty), I get the easier part, but this honestly seems like Covetous Demon kind of easy.
yeah, i'm not saying i learned it's patterns at all. it was the first time i ever saw it. and it was easy to get through because it is easier in general

there's only so much a mod can do (which is really just altering damage numbers essentially), it's not going to reconfigure specific fights without *a lot* of work

I can't say for sure what From vision is, they do add some ways to break the game so go figure but what I say is that they should be allowed to do the game the way they want to, they didn't even lie to you while selling it. You could tell them they could get more people, more money, and whatnot but if they don't want to do it it's their right I guess.
yeah, and of course they're allowed to do that. i don't think they should be forced to implement an easy mode, just that i don't think the addition of one completely compromises the experience
 

Sarcastico

Member
Oct 27, 2017
774
Good on you, OP. It's your time and your money, you decide how to make the most out of it!

The "you didn't really play x game" brigade are sad.
 
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swnny

Member
Oct 27, 2017
270
Having more options is always better, that's where PC gaming shines the most, and I'm glad you enjoyed your time with the game.
But watching your video of the final encounter, it definitely doesn't look fun, at least not your play style. Thats 4 minutes and a half of blocking (few parries here and there) and spamming attack and thrusts. No legitme parries, no counters, not much of a strategy at all. Completely destroys the progression and flow of the game's combat. Yes, I did die like 20 times at that encounter, but by the time I beat him, I was passing his stages in 20-30 seconds.

Definitely not an "easy mode" I'd be ok with. As back when the game released, I'd rather have a difficulty setting where regular enemies ain't so punishing, so it doesn't frustrate the player even more, but keep the bosses at 75%(give or take) damage output and speed. So it preserves the amazing mechanics and offensive styled combat, while still keeps the player a bit on their toes.
 
OP
OP
newmoneytrash

newmoneytrash

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,981
Melbourne, Australia
Definitely not an "easy mode" I'd be ok with. As back when the game released, I'd rather have a difficulty setting where regular enemies ain't so punishing, so it doesn't frustrate the player even more, but keep the bosses at 75%(give or take) damage output and speed. So it preserves the amazing mechanics and offensive styled combat, while still keeps the player a bit on their toes.
yeah the balance is far from perfect. the bosses skew way too easy while i think that the normal enemies are pretty much fine. but it's still fun and worthwhile if you just want to see the game without too much challenge, which is a valid way to play games imo
 

Mastermind

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
490
People really applied that "unathentic" line to all the wrong things. Modding the difficulty makes it unathentic. Not using a mechanic that the game provides is obviously not the same thing. Yes, I realize that using unathentic makes people defensive but I don't mean it in a way to be inflammatory. It's just not in line with the developer's intent.

At the end of the day we are all free to play the games that we buy in whichever way that allows us to enjoy them to their fullest. That's all that matters in end.
 
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Acinixys

Banned
Nov 15, 2017
913
I feel you OP

I play game to enjoy a story and explore the world and lore

Since the middle of last year I accepted this, and have been playing all games on the easiest difficulty, and its been excellent. Ive been enjoying gaming a lot more since.

I play DotA or Battlefield to get my difficulty fix. Its better that way, because you are playing vs real people, instead of developer controlled fake difficulty like super OP attacks or health bars that take 5 minutes to chip away at.
 

gcwy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,685
Houston, TX
Sounds like a fun mod. I think I'll try it cuz of the infinite puppeteer ninjutsu. I've already finished the game so it's not going to affect my vanilla experience.
 

Wink784

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,208
But of course! I've been so brainwashed by everything being sold nowadays that I forgot once upon a time cheats existed. From Soft, don't put easy modes into your games, but enable cheats. That way you don't compromise your game design, eveyone who wants "the real experience" preserved gets that without being tempted as much by an officially balanced easier playthrough and everyone who just wants to fuck around with the game can break it via cheats.
 

AllMight1

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,748
Sounds good. If there was an easy mode, I'd probably play Sekiro, I don't have time to do bosses over and over again.

Some of you guys are funny. I completed Bloodborne and only parried once or twice, some of you would claim a non authentic Bloodborne run as I didn't bother to learn a 'key' mechanic.

And it's not only Sekiro, I started Kingdom hearts 3 from the beginning because bosses and encounters on proud more weren't difficult, they just ate a lot of time to beat em, and I just don't have the time to deal with that.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,825
So emulating console games (modern or otherwise) on PC is still inauthentic because it's still modding the game, if ever so slightly?

I've been arguing this with software pirates for years!
 

Kain

Unshakable Resolve - One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
7,670
Yeah I don't have time or patience for hours and hours of frustrating grind to learn fights and mechanics in the chance I find some of it fun. Nope. Might try this in the future, sounds fun.
 

MegaSackman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,836
Argentina
yeah, and of course they're allowed to do that. i don't think they should be forced to implement an easy mode, just that i don't think the addition of one completely compromises the experience

It's interesting because when I finished the game I went for the platinum and on NG+ I had the option to make the game harder and I was "no thank you, I got what I wanted now I want trophies and I'll make my way as fast as possible" and so I did, NG+ with maxed out health and potions felt like a normal mode. I mean sure the enemies hit harder but you do too and you have "the knowledge" from beating it the first time.

So in a way I feel there's a normal mode but only after you beat it on... say very hard.

It's like they push you until a certain point and then is your decision.
 

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,415
Trying to think of a reason I'd be mad at OP for doing this.

...nope, got nothing. Glad you had a good time with the game. From is entitled to make the game they want and you're entitled to play it however you want, you bought it, have fun.
 

AlexBasch

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,349
If anything OP, I'm glad you're able to enjoy games that way. And I don't mean it in a sarcastic/cynical way, honest. In stealth games, I must go 100% undetected, or else I feel I'm playing shit wrong and end up frustrated because of how much I end up reloading checkpoints until I get shit right.
 

Sarcastico

Member
Oct 27, 2017
774
The only thing that gets me about mods like these is that it feels like they could be more straightforward.

Like, couldn't you just turn on infinite health instead? Wouldn't that give more or less the same experience? Would that really be less fun, and if so, why? Maybe it's just me, but if I'm going to mess with a game in that way it feels better to just break it the whole way.

Toning down or removing certain game mechanics can add more convenience while still providing an appropriate amount of challenge. It all depends on the individual.
 
OP
OP
newmoneytrash

newmoneytrash

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,981
Melbourne, Australia
I feel you OP

I play game to enjoy a story and explore the world and lore

Since the middle of last year I accepted this, and have been playing all games on the easiest difficulty, and its been excellent. Ive been enjoying gaming a lot more since.

I play DotA or Battlefield to get my difficulty fix. Its better that way, because you are playing vs real people, instead of developer controlled fake difficulty like super OP attacks or health bars that take 5 minutes to chip away at.
i've spent a lot more time playing games on easy lately too just because it's fun and relaxing. i've played all of the arkham games before, but i went back through them again a few months ago and just went through on easy to experience the story and had a super fun time
 

Raiden

Member
Nov 6, 2017
2,923
Good on you man. I wasted 60 EUR on it on Xbox.

I felt it was hard for the sake of being hard. Never had that with the Dark Souls or Bloodborne.
 

Dust

C H A O S
Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,872
I played Sekiro with mods and I liked it
The taste of that cheap tactic
I played Sekiro with mods just to beat it
I hope my gamer boys don't mind it
It felt so wrong
It felt so right
Don't mean I'm good player tonight
I played Sekiro with mods and I liked it
I liked it
 

Deer

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,568
Sweden
That's awesome! I'm glad you could enjoy it 😘

I love how the modding community makes games available to be enjoyed by more people and in different ways 🐒🦍🦧
 

Magicgamer

Member
Oct 28, 2017
455
It's your game you can play it however you want. Personally for a game like Sekiro where the challenge is one of its core aspects, I wouldn't be able to do this, not on my first play through most definitely. And if asked about my play through I would feel compelled to tell others I used mods to make the experience easier.
 

Mendrox

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
9,439
Looking at your video I can see why. You didn't even learn the game. I mean yeah more power to anyone wanting to experience game, but it's really not the same if you haven't learned the basics. After some time Sekiro wasn't that punishing difficult game anymore, but more a dance which I loved to dance. Ain't no other game like this here currently. Play it like you want, but still you miss out.
 

Deleted member 3196

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,280
I always thought there's a weird inner contradiction in From games' refusal for options. People say that the reason is that From wants to give a specific "vision" which will be compromised with customized difficulty, but that's missing the point that each person has different attributes that affect his experience like reaction time, hand-eye coordination, experience with action games, ability to focus for long periods, or whatever. If From truly wanted everyone to have the same experience then they would have to tailor the game for people who have a slower reaction time by slowing down animations slightly, allow colorblind options, allow to pause, etc.

Say two people (let's say neither has major disabilities, because that's a different argument) beat Sekiro, one of them had a super difficult time due to slower cognitive abilities, trying every fight over and over and grinding for drops and cheesing everything he could cheese slowly and thoroughly. And the other just breezed through the game by being innately talented with action games. Is it intentional that they had such different experiences? Are both of their experiences "correct Sekiro experiences" of From's "vision"? If so why can't the first person access the second person's experience?
Well said. One person's challenging difficulty is another person's insurmountable difficulty. A sense of accomplishment can be felt on an easier difficulty by someone who is less skilled or has accessibility issues that make playing a harder game impossible.

I think From Software's logic in regards to difficulty is faulty - don't get me started on the bullshit gatekeepers who demand the game only cater to their own skill level despite the fact that an easier difficulty wouldn't negatively impact their experience in any tangible way.
 

leng jai

Member
Nov 2, 2017
15,135
People really applied that "unathentic" line to all the wrong things. Modding the difficulty makes it unathentic. Not using a mechanic that the game provides is obviously but the same thing. Yes, I realize that using unathentic makes people defensive but I don't mean it in a way to be inflammatory. It's just not in line with the developer's intent.

At the end of the day we are all free to play the games that we buy in whichever way that allows us to enjoy them to their fullest. That's all that matters in end.

I'm pretty sure the "it doesn't sit well with me" line is what people are laughing at.
 

Zed

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,544
As someone who likes to play hard modes on games for a challenge...
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Fuck all the haters. It is a single player game and you can play however you want. Nothing wrong with lowering the difficulty even if it messes with "muh precious creator's vision."
 

sweetmini

Member
Jun 12, 2019
3,921
Your house, your rules. Mod to your heart's content. When streaming has finished taking over and we cannot mod anymore it will be too late. So, enjoy every second of our time while we still can do it.
 

Outlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,113
Texas
Nice, I'd never do this for a souls-type game since I like the difficulty in those but I absolutely did something similar for Resident Evil 2. Downloaded a mod that let you remove Mr. X from the game, still enjoyed it immensely after getting rid of that annoyance.
A friend gifted me a copy of RE2 on Steam the day it came out. Although I'm thoroughly interested in the game, that whole Mr X shit makes me not want to play it.

It's not that I'm "scared" of the character, he actually looks silly af to me (the fedora/raincoat on some giant ogre). It's just the idea of me having a chill, yet ominous investigative sesh being interrupted at random by this dude seems like a big vibe killer.

Hopefully I don't have the concept wrong all along, but he randomly interrupts your session and you have to sprint a couple rooms away until he gives up, correct?
 

The Unsent

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,494
Has no one said ever.
Some guy said in this thread it's not authentic and rubs them the wrong way and someone else says it's not Sekiro, which sounds defensive. I may be exaggerating it because that's part of sarcasm but gatekeeping is the logical extreme... if you can't respect someone got some enjoyment from it and they wouldn't have played it properly other wise.
 
Oct 27, 2017
15,142
For some reason, this does not sit well with me. It's not authentic.

A) what difference does it make to you how someone else plays an offline single-player game?

B) would you rather OP only played a handful of levels then gave up because it was too hard, or actually had the option to make the difficulty more manageable and completed the whole game as a result? Do you think fewer people should be able to finish the game because their experience is 'inauthentic'?!
 
OP
OP
newmoneytrash

newmoneytrash

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,981
Melbourne, Australia
If anything OP, I'm glad you're able to enjoy games that way. And I don't mean it in a sarcastic/cynical way, honest. In stealth games, I must go 100% undetected, or else I feel I'm playing shit wrong and end up frustrated because of how much I end up reloading checkpoints until I get shit right.
i used to feel this way too. i remember how miserable i was playing dishonored because i needed to never be detected and never kill anyone. i got past it, though, and i'm glad i did!
 

DrScissorsMD

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Jan 19, 2019
564
See, I reckon if there were difficulty options when I played Dark Souls 3 and I'd chosen easy then I wouldn't have had anywhere near the same sense of satisfaction I got when I finished the game. But I suppose that's OPs point: he never would've played it to completion without the easy mode. Not fair for me to expect OP or anyone else to have the same experience I got from a game, so long as they get enjoyment out of it and them achieving that enjoyment doesn't impact on others then more power to them.