I like Achievements/Trophies, so I'm having a hard time buying multiplats on Nintendo hardware

[Renteka-Bond]

No offense to OP, but hasn't the "Switch needs trophies" topics been done to death?
I feel like we get one nearly every week.

That said: I personally like it, I can just play the game without some bogus dopamine trigger popping up or people going "YOU PLEBIAN, YOU DIDNT GET THE HARD MORE, PERFECT ENDING TROPHY!?".
If they end up caving, they should pull a Platinum and add a Trophy store to every game they make.

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God, I would hate that. I'm not big into competing with other folks for who has the most trophies, but, for me personally, having a system to buy every trophy would maliciously defeat the point of even having the system to the degree that I would just rather not have it at all if those are the only 2 options. The option in Nier is cheeky/amusing as a one-off, but I think doing it for everything would be an unnecessary piss-take.

It brings to mind the Golden Turd they give you in BOTW for getting all 900 of the Korok seeds that they spammed into the game of their own free will.

Edit: Plus, pretty much everything in a game is already designed to be a dopamine trigger anyway. All the chimes and lights and special animations are designed to do the same thing anyway, what's one more?

 

[corasaur]

halfway through the 360 generation i burned out and started caring less. now they are more likely to annoy me than motivate me and i like having a platform without them. i struggle to tune the noise out and want to continue to not have the option of getting back into them.

 

[Camwi]

No offense to OP, but hasn't the "Switch needs trophies" topics been done to death?
I feel like we get one nearly every week.

That said: I personally like it, I can just play the game without some bogus dopamine trigger popping up or people going "YOU PLEBIAN, YOU DIDNT GET THE HARD MORE, PERFECT ENDING TROPHY!?".
If they end up caving, they should pull a Platinum and add a Trophy store to every game they make.

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You see that a lot, huh?

 

[Amnixia]

God, I would hate that. I'm not big into competing with other folks for who has the most trophies, but, for me personally, having a system to buy every trophy would maliciously defeat the point of even having the system to the degree that I would just rather not have it at all if those are the only 2 options. The option in Nier is cheeky/amusing as a one-off, but I think doing it for everything would be an unnecessary piss-take.

It brings to mind the Golden Turd they give you in BOTW for getting all 900 of the Korok seeds that they spammed into the game of their own free will.

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I personally think the turd was their stab at trophies.

Same with the foto that you can't look at that you get if you get all the creatures etc. on photograph.

 

[TheBeardedOne]

That's understandable. Why buy the worst version of almost every multiplat you're interested in anyways?

 

[mrmickfran]

What the hell at some of those replies

Why the fuck do achievements/trophies bother people so much

 

[Proc]

Achievements and trophies are a nice barometer to know when you've "completed" the game. It can also be a hindrance knowing that you may miss them on your first play through, which adds more focus/anxiety to the achievement instead of focusing on the game itself. I definitely see it both ways. Playing my retro stuff is strangely more relaxing but that could just be the warm comfort of nostalgia.

 

[molnizzle]

What the hell at some of those replies

Why the fuck do achievements/trophies bother people so much

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Because some people (like myself) struggle with being able to ignore them. Their mere existence causes stress in the back of my mind and I have less fun playing. With Switch games, it's such a freeing feeling to know that I can just play however I want without "missing" anything. I'm so much happier playing games on this platform.

I played more games on my Switch this year precisely because there aren't any achievements. And my experience there helped me be more able to ignore them on PS4 and Xbox when I would play other games.

Switch not having achievements is wonderful.

 

[Renteka-Bond]

I personally think the turd was their stab at trophies.

Same with the foto that you can't look at that you get if you get all the creatures etc. on photograph.

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It totally was, which is what I was referring to as not wanting. I think I'd rather get nothing than a gag 'prize' like that for daring to engage in a system that the devs explicitly put in the game in the first place. It's not quite the same issue as being able to just buy the trophies, but the level of contempt for the concept is roughly the same.

 

[Agent 47]

Yeh an extra layer of challenges and goals to work towards is always a welcome edition. How can anyone be against it? If you don't enjoy it, turn off the notifications and you're sorted.

 

[molnizzle]

It totally was, which is what I was referring to as not wanting. I think I'd rather get nothing than a gag 'prize' like that for daring to engage in a system that the devs explicitly put in the game in the first place. It's not quite the same issue as being able to just buy the trophies, but the level of contempt for the concept is roughly the same.

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eh, you're not meant to get them all though. They explicitly put them all over the game so that you always had some around you wherever you were exploring. They weren't meant to be something you hunted down all 900 of. I liked the joke.

Yeh an extra layer of challenges and goals to work towards is always a welcome edition. How can anyone be against it? If you don't enjoy it, turn off the notifications and you're sorted.

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Turning off notifications doesn't turn off achievements. You still know they're there on your profile. You still have a trophy level or GamerScore. That knowledge is always at the back of your mind, stressing you out as you play. Am I going about this wrong? Are there miss-able trophies I should be getting? etc.

 

[Deleted member 43446]

I was fully expecting them to implement a Trophy/Achievement system this time around, especially since they started meddling with them with the WiiU.

 

[Amnixia]

You see that a lot, huh?

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Just look at some of the comments when Miyazaki talked about a possible easy mode for Dark Souls.

It totally was, which is what I was referring to as not wanting. I think I'd rather get nothing than a gag 'prize' like that for daring to engage in a system that the devs explicitly put in the game in the first place. It's not quite the same issue as being able to just buy the trophies, but the level of contempt for the concept is roughly the same.

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Because finding all 900 should be something you do, only if you enjoy doing the puzzles.
It shouldn't be some end goal to get a sticker saying "well done, you're super awesome!".

I'm at about 350 korok seeds, and don't bother anymore.
Did finish all the pictures cause I enjoyed going about and looking for stuff I hadn't taken a picture off yet.

It was fun, and I loved that there was no fake incentive to do it.

 

[Equanimity]

Same. I want to buy indies on my Switch but the lack of a trophy/achievement system means that I'll just buy it on the PS4 or X.

 

[Ocean]

I don't buy multi plats on Switch, but it has nothing to do with trophies and everything to do with its subpar specs.

 

[Agent 47]

Just look at some of the comments when Miyazaki talked about a possible easy mode for Dark Souls.

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The difficulty of Dark Souls and achievements aren't related though.

 

[Spinky]

I've only had my Switch for 10 days, and so far I've already made a decent collection just with first-party stuff and indies. The portability is a big plus, so I'm not turned off buying games for it at all.

With that being said, Switch not having achievements is just silly. I'm not a "Trophy hunter" anymore and usually don't put any effort into getting Trophies/achievements unless it's relatively easy, but I'm still a fan and anybody who's like "just play the game bro, we play games the for the gaaaaaaaameplay not the achievements" is a cock, because games coming with achievements now is practically guaranteed no matter where you play. That's just how it is. Of course it's gonna stick out when someone doesn't do it. There's no reason for the Switch to not have them other than "Nintendo gonna Nintendo", or them just not caring or them living in their own bubble or whatever.

 

[iamandy]

Because finding all 900 should be something you do, only if you enjoy doing the puzzles.

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Trophy is something you should get only if you enjoy the game. It's not mandatory.

 

[Haze]

Being free from achievements >>>>>>

I used to really enjoy them when I only played on Xbox and PS4. I have over 200k gamerscore smh.

When I switched to PC as my primary platform it was kind of liberating. Just playing the game for playing the game's sake.

Switch benefits from that. Also even if I did still care about achievements, portability >>>>>>> everything. Switch is my primary platform for all indie games.

 

[molnizzle]

Trophy is something you should get only if you enjoy the game. It's not mandatory.

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You and I both known that's not how it works most of the time.

People feel compelled to do them even when they're not having fun. Just read any of those achievement hunting forums to see players raging at certain difficult/unattainable achievements. They're miserable, but they keep pressing on to get a digital sticker on their profile.

The entire system feels exploitative, honestly.

 

[PenultimateFantasy]

Thanks for sharing your personal slightly odd way of deciding where to play games

 

[mrmickfran]

Because some people (like myself) struggle with being able to ignore them. Their mere existence causes stress in the back of my mind and I have less fun playing. With Switch games, it's such a freeing feeling to know that I can just play however I want without "missing" anything. I'm so much happier playing games on this platform.

I played more games on my Switch this year precisely because there aren't any achievements. And my experience there helped me be more able to ignore them on PS4 and Xbox when I would play other games.

Switch not having achievements is wonderful.

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You can turn em off completely and ignore them.

There you go, other people can enjoy them and you can go by like it never happened.

 

[Deleted member 30569]

It shouldn't be some end goal to get a sticker saying "well done, you're super awesome!".

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Riiiight... Because Nintendo has never told you that you're awesome?

Having Achievements as a system wide feature allows you to:
1. Chase the Achievements from the get go, as your primary motivator in how and when you play the game;
2. Take a curious look at the Achievements if you've completed the game but enjoy the main gameplay loop enough that you want to extend the game's life, but don't have your own creative ways for how to do that.
3. Enjoy the Achievements when you get them through the natural course of the game, but ignore them afterwards.
4. Ignore them altogether.

Seriously, #4 is not that hard.

The hostility towards Achievements in this thread is very strange.

 

[molnizzle]

You can turn em off completely and ignore them.

There you go, other people can enjoy them and you can go by like it never happened.

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No, you can't.

...and even if you could, you're still playing on a platform that has them. Other people will have them on their profile pages. They're still there. The stress about missing them doesn't go away.

Only way it goes away is for them to not be on the platform at all.

People who want them can play their games on other platforms. People like me have the one. Stop trying to take that shit away.

 

[EdgeXL]

I don't think I could ever understand achievements/trophies dictating game decisions but it's the OP's money so they can spend it however they like.

 

[Deleted member 11421]

That's why I said certain games, meaning ones that you have to go out of your way to platinum. Not at home atm so I can't look at exact percentages, but even if your 10% estimate is accurate, that's still millions of sales that you're talking about.

Like I said, the "it's extra work for the developers" excuse just doesn't make sense in this case when you not only take into account the extra sales, but also the fact that if it's a multiplatform game, chances are they already have the achievements set up anyways (not to say that it wouldn't take extra work, obviously).

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Even if people go out of their way to obtain it, that doesn't mean it necessarily affected their decision to purchase that version, making these attempts at direct correlation with percentages unreliable at best. I already have a ton of "accolades" on multiple platforms so I weigh in things like the technical performance, people I know getting it, etc. before I think about achievements/trophies.

I agree that it doesn't work for multiplatform games as an excuse, and I know that's what the thread was about, but I'm commenting on the whole landscape.

Most popular games don't have difficult platinums (even God of War is relatively simple and can be gotten without looking up a guide or the list itself) yet they still end up with trophy completion rates of 1-5% because of a few rare ones. Spider-Man is basically a 100% reward hence the high (10%) number, and so are most RPG trophy lists...so there's a whole genre that inherently attracts completionists who would attempt to do all of the content regardless.

So how do you know that 10% (or lower in most cases) actually consisted of people who wanted the platinum? Tons of smaller games with platinums or 1000/1000 come out week to week and stay around 1-2% completion. The popularity has diminished overall compared to what it used to be.

 

[Ayirek]

You and I both known that's not how it works most of the time.

People feel compelled to do them even when they're not having fun. Just read any of those achievement hunting forums to see players raging at certain difficult/unattainable achievements. They're miserable, but they keep pressing on to get a digital sticker on their profile.

The entire system feels exploitative, honestly.

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Yeah, I tend to feel compelled to grind for trophies. It's actually why I've quit playing FFX on ps4 and why I'm gonna buy it on Switch. There is just no way I'm grinding to fill everyone's sphere grid, and I know of that was the only trophy left it would drive me bonkers. Maybe if they'd patch the ps4 version to actually have the fast forward features I would. But as it is nah.

 

[Captain of Outer Space]

That is a part of my purchasing decision along with my Switch being docked 99% of the time, so many games being inferior to the other platforms adds to why I tend to stick to exclusives or really cheap games on the Switch.

 

[Amnixia]

The difficulty of Dark Souls and achievements aren't related though.

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IMO it's the same mindset.

Trophy is something you should get only if you enjoy the game. It's not mandatory.

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I know, but why are people trying to make it seem like supporting trophies should be mandatory? Can't they just enjoy the game?

 

[Deleted member 30569]

People feel compelled to do them even when they're not having fun.

The entire system feels exploitative, honestly.

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Whatever happened to exercising self-control?

Thanks for sharing your personal slightly odd way of deciding where to play games

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And thanks for your contribution... whatever your contribution is supposed to be.

I don't think I could ever understand achievements/trophies dictating game decisions but it's the OP's money so they can spend it however they like.

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This is a very fair post. It's the OP's money and time, so they can enjoy games however they see fit. If they want to chase Achievements, so be it. I enjoy Achievements sometimes, but they're far from my primary purpose in playing games, and they play practically no factor in my purchasing decisions. But if other people want Achievements, and I can ignore them, why not?

 

[Deleted member 30544]

I'm with you OP , Achievements/Trophies changed the whole game and made it more fun (or frustating , if you really really take it seriously) but the bottom line is that i love them.

I will never let that a difficult (or uber easy) achievement list to influence my desire to buy a game, specially if i'm interested in it, for example, the Gears of War series which are almost impossible to 1000/1000 and i have them all because i love the series.

Having said that, the switch not having a similar system is one of the biggest (if not, the biggest ) reason on why i haven't bought a Switch yet.

 

[Shortsoptional]

Yes? I wasn't saying achievements were bad to include. Was answering the question.

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My bad

 

[Tavernade]

I'm in 'sort of' the same boat. Being able to compare achievements with friends on Steam, and the general social aspect, is weirdly one of the main reasons I've mainly avoided multiplats on Switch. I have gotten games that I feel would be better on Switch, though, like Hollow Knight, so it's not a 100% thing. It's less about the achievements themselves and more sharing and comparing them, though.

 

[molnizzle]

I know, but why are people trying to make it seem like supporting trophies should be mandatory? Can't they just enjoy the game?

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Many can't, because they're not playing for fun -- they're just playing to seeing their progress bars go up.

Whatever happened to exercising self-control?

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*leads alcoholic into an open bar*
"Just exercize some self-control!"

It doesn't work like that.

 

[DOT_mjo]

I literally just turned off trophy notifications. Being a heavy trophy hunter but also having a high-end gaming PC has made me reevaluate my priorities. On PC, I can play for hours on end without the need to see any trophies pop up. On PS4, I'm constantly waiting for the next trophy to pop in order to validate the time I'm spending.

 

[Deleted member 37928]

I thought the portable mode was the deciding factor for multiplats om Switch. At least that's the reason I got the Switch.

I understand that achievements are a big part of some gamers enjoyment. But at the end of the day it might be easier to just change your approach? It's all in your head after all.

 

[Achtung]

I would buy far more stuff on the Switch if it had a legit achievement system with a good API for third party sites but I have no hope Nintendo will every have anything close to that.

 

[Amnixia]

Most can't, because they're not playing for fun -- they're just playing to seeing their progress bars go up.


*leads alcoholic into an open bar*
"Just exercize some self-control!"

It doesn't work like that.

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Exactly, they made them for the small dopamine trigger you get when the little "achievement unlocked" bleep/window goes up.

 

[Jack Frost]

To each his own. Trophies do nothing for me.

 

[Renteka-Bond]

eh, you're not meant to get them all though. They explicitly put them all over the game so that you always had some around you wherever you were exploring. They weren't meant to be something you hunted down all 900 of. I liked the joke.

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Because finding all 900 should be something you do, only if you enjoy doing the puzzles.

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Of the multitude of exploitative methods used in videogames, achievements don't strike me as any worse than any other reward/feedback system in a game. BOTW didn't need 900 korok seeds and Odyssey didn't need the like 500+ moons in the game, but they put them all in the game to constantly reward you even for trivial stuff in the game to make you feel like you actually did something.

I'm not offended by the joke in BOTW, especially since I probably wouldn't have gone for them if I ever played the game, but it is a little annoying that that's all you get when they could've actually given something cool or at least usable, like infinite stamina or something. That would've been far more productive and fun way to show the "give actual rewards" theme than just a golden turd, which is the same thing as a pointless achievement except mean.

Nintendo's pretty much always given pointless rewards for completing all the stuff in games anyway, what's the issue with having one on a system level, other than that they probably just can't do it?

Trophy is something you should get only if you enjoy the game. It's not mandatory.

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[Weltall Zero]

Whatever happened to exercising self-control?

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Went extinct the second people started caring about how they're doing compared to others... so probably around the stone age.

This is a very fair post. It's the OP's money and time, so they can enjoy games however they see fit. If they want to chase Achievements, so be it. I enjoy Achievements sometimes, but they're far from my primary purpose in playing games, and they play practically no factor in my purchasing decisions. But if other people want Achievements, and I can ignore them, why not?

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That's a peculiar selective empathy, understanding people who want achievements, but not people who dislike them and feel stressed by them. :D

(I'm not speaking for myself here, I frankly pretty much never bother even checking achievement lists, let alone actually getting them. But I can understand people who dislike having incomplete achievement lists).

 

[Footos22]

Achievements/trophies give me replay value. Or something to strive towards. Like I own hollow knight on switch and ps4 and I will only play it properly on ps4 going for all the pantheons cos at least it has some sort of reward for doing so. The in game achievements just aren't the same.

 

[ContraWars]

I won't buy games without them these days. I won't buy Nintendo products ever again.

 

[molnizzle]

I'm not offended by the joke in BOTW, especially since I probably wouldn't have gone for them if I ever played the game, but it is a little annoying that that's all you get when they could've actually given something cool or at least usable, like infinite stamina or something. That would've been far more productive and fun way to show the "give actual rewards" theme than just a golden turd, which is the same thing as a pointless achievement except mean.

Nintendo's pretty much always given pointless rewards for completing all the stuff in games anyway, what's the issue with having one on a system level, other than that they probably just can't do it?

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Having an actual reward would make more people attempt it though. That sends the message that collecting all 900 Koroks is the optimal way to play. That's not the message Nintendo wants to send. They want to send the opposite message, that finding them all is a complete waste of your time and you should try to ignore your compulsion to do it. There are so many in the game because you're meant to poke around for them along the path you've already chosen. They're not meant to dictate that path themselves.

Having the poop in Zelda goes hand-in-hand with not having system-wide achievements. Nintendo wants you to play games for the sake of playing games, just to have fun and enjoy yourself.

That's a peculiar selective empathy, understanding people who want achievements, but not people who dislike them and feel stressed by them.

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It's not really their fault. They're still addicted.

Those who feel that way, I strongly encourage you to try playing more games on Switch. It might just help you detox off the achievement compulsion like it did for me.

 

[Falchion]

Yep I'll never choose Nintendo hardware for my multiplatforms over Sony or Microsoft for this reason.

 

[iamandy]

You and I both known that's not how it works most of the time.

People feel compelled to do them even when they're not having fun. Just read any of those achievement hunting forums to see players raging at certain difficult/unattainable achievements. They're miserable, but they keep pressing on to get a digital sticker on their profile.

The entire system feels exploitative, honestly.

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I know it can be a problem, and it sucks, really. But PSN profiles have 3KK users, it's a small base of the PlayStation userbase.
I totally agree that trophies can trigger bad habbits, but gaming itself is highly adcitive. You can find guides out there teaching how to finish FFVII with 99 itens.

 

[The Real Napsta]

yeah, I would buy more switch games if they had an achievement system

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This is me. I miss them.

 

[iamandy]

Having an actual reward would make more people attempt it though. That sends the message that collecting all 900 Koroks is the optimal way to play. That's not the message Nintendo wants to send. They want to send the opposite message, that finding them all is a complete waste of your time and you should try to ignore your compulsion to do it. There are so many in the game because you're meant to poke around for them along the path you've already chosen. They're not meant to dictate that path themselves.

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Not every trophy list demand 100%. Zelda could have achievmentd that don't demand 900 korok seeds.
There are great games with great trophies that don't demand crazy grind or time consuming tasks. You don't have to Platinum everything.

 

[molnizzle]

I know it can be a problem, and it sucks, really. But PSN profiles have 3KK users, it's a small base of the PlayStation userbase.
I totally agree that trophies can trigger bad habbits, but gaming itself is highly adcitive. You can find guides out there teaching how to finish FFVII with 99 itens.

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Gaming is indeed highly addictive, but achievements make it even more addictive. Nintendo has always tried to mitigate the addictive nature of games (sometimes hilariously with their "take a break" messages). Even if it's just a "small percentage," Nintendo would rather not allow for that negativity to be possible on their platform. Frankly, I'm extremely grateful for that.

Regardless though, I suspect that the percentage of people who have a not-quite-as-severe problem is larger than you might think. Just look at some of the sad posts on the achievement hunting forums, or even in this very thread. Clearly there are a large number of people who just can't help themselves. Nintendo wants to help those people get better, not contribute towards their stress.

 

[Renteka-Bond]

Having an actual reward would make more people attempt it though. That sends the message that collecting all 900 Koroks is the optimal way to play. That's not the message Nintendo wants to send. They want to send the opposite message, that finding them all is a complete waste of your time and you should try to ignore your compulsion to do it. There are so many in the game because you're meant to poke around for them along the path you've already chosen. They're not meant to dictate that path themselves.

Having the poop in Zelda goes hand-in-hand with not having system-wide achievements. Nintendo wants you to play games for the sake of playing games, just to have fun and enjoy yourself.


It's not really their fault. They're still addicted.

Those who feel that way, I strongly encourage you to try playing more games on Switch. It might just help you detox off the achievement compulsion like it did for me.

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I get that, even if I don't really like it. I still think that giving a reward would've been more fun for the people that like the game enough to even bother getting them all in the first place to give them a sort of free-roam sandbox mode but, as someone who also got the platinum in FF13-2, getting a cool reward for getting everything at the end of the game can also be pretty annoying when it's something that could've been given earlier. It's a mixed bag.

I will agree with your second point though, about 'detoxing', except I went the opposite way and just transitioned to PC for the most part, since, along with other actual reasons, Sony has become a less worthwhile place to get trophies after removing the pass system. Pc looks better, plays better, is generally cheaper and loads faster. It's certainly helped ease the transition to not caring as much, though PC still has the option of achievements too, so eh.