If you are referring to the cutscene I wrote about then I was talking about TR Reboot of 2013. As aforementioned, I have never played the OG titles, as in any TR title prior to the 2013 reboot.
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I hope Lara Croft's personality is more in line with the classic games in the future and not as whiny as the Crystal Dynamics latest trilogy
- Thread starter Tiago Rodrigues
- Start date
If you are referring to the cutscene I wrote about then I was talking about TR Reboot of 2013. As aforementioned, I have never played the OG titles, as in any TR title prior to the 2013 reboot.
Completely unrelated, but this video is basically a summary of why I could never get into these games.
I didn't make it through the entire video, but this is a dream sequence, right? It has to be, otherwise, when did they make Lara Croft a superhero?
Maybe I just haven't played Uncharted recently enough, but was Nathan Drake ever doing any of the insane shit Lara's doing in that video?
I'll happily take a more confident Lara but if they turn her back into a blow-up doll designed for little boys' pleasure I'm out.
"Jonahhhhhhhhh!!!! Jonnnnnahhhhh!!!! I'm haaaiiirr!!"
I'm not sure I agree with whining (Shadow selfish Lara aside), but I wish they'd stop kicking her ass so much. She's a badass but it always takes an entire game for her to get to that level and it all seems stripped away by the next. She deserves better.
I'm not sure I agree with whining (Shadow selfish Lara aside), but I wish they'd stop kicking her ass so much. She's a badass but it always takes an entire game for her to get to that level and it all seems stripped away by the next. She deserves better.
This really wasn't the case outside of some really dog shit PR/Marketing.
Lara in 2013 powered through, choosing to because she had someone to protect and she wasn't going to fail her.
Sure it wasn't perfect but Lara absolutely had purpose and drive that was her's and her desire to help/save someone because she loved them.
The reboot trilogy has plenty of supernatural enemies. Seriously. In the first game the literal big bad is a 1000 year old queen trapped in a decaying body trying to use a mystical ritual to move her soul to another body. It's got an entire nation hidden in a never ending storm that is being controlled by said big bad. Not to mention the Oni and other ghoulish enemies.
In Rise, you literally meet another 1000 year old prophet from Biblical times whose home has supernatural undead beings protecting the remnants of their decayed capital.
Don't get me wrong, I'd say the original games had some more "out there" concepts and shit, but the reboot is filled with supernatural shit.
I think in Kratos' case, it becomes a narrative of growth, grief, and maturity. It's the old warrior confronting his violent past and coming to terms with what will be passed on to his kin. GoW isn't a perfect version of that story - but it's working off of very well-worn tropes. However, you can't really do that in reverse.
I do not disagree, I'm just pointing out the sexism from marketing and the fact that Lara should have been(i'm refering to rise and shadow here) doing this for her own reasons and not her dad's.
Oh right. Well there's a similar one in Anniversary and it was far more out of place imo.
Every collectible artifact you find in all 3 games you can hear Lara talk about them, their history and personal thoughts.
TR13 doesnt really have much else but given the structure of the game, it makes sense.
Rise and Shadow are filled with moments where Lara admires architecture/location/contraption/whatever.
OP
OP
No...it's not a dream sequence. It looks like a parody though.
On the other hand...it's the same game that could give you this great scene:
Now THAT is an amazingly choreographed fight scene. and her going "Don't try me" was actually well delivered.
If you think about it...both scenes are actually similar in tone. Her falling in the water, coming out and having to fight an enemy. Except in one she's Rambo...in the other one she's human.
I will say this, 50% of that is Camilla Luddington's awful voice acting. I could give this script to any other Lara Croft actress and while they most definitely would not save it - nothing can -, at least the acting would be good.
The cheesy action pieces aren't really the biggest problem with Tomb Raider.
I mean, all of that seems pretty in line with the stuff that happens in Uncharted? Nathan Drake literally climbed an entire train that was hanging on a cliff at the top of a mountain with a stab wound on his side.
The cheesy action pieces aren't really the biggest problem with Tomb Raider.
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Yeah I know but I want them to focus more on them instead of another mercenary bunch for most of the game. Mummies, dinosaurs, demons, aliens from atlantis etc etc. I want the games to be less of a character study and more of an Indiana Jones type of affair like the classic games. Less grounded and more weird would be the best.
The current trilogy felt too focused on having a character study and whatever supernatural were not that important it felt.
To be fair though, the original series had it's fair share of human enemies but it still had a lot of focus on the supernatural.
He jumps impossible gaps every 10 minutes, slides down and grabs hold of ledges without breaking every finger in his body, technically "dodges" thousands of bullets through out the games, gets pulled behind a jeep going 60 miles an hour an rarely comes away with a scrape. He literally gets shot in the second game and is up running, jumping, and climbing less than a week later.
This I absolutely disagree with.
Her take was different, and very much a different Lara but I felt her voice work was brilliant and I loved her portrayal in 2013.
I admit to ditching the sequels due to how they fridged Sam, so I only have brief experience and maybe she got way worse...but I will Stan her performance in 2013 forever.
I love PS1 Lara, she's just a total boss - sure, there's no character development there whatsoever but for a game that's not story-based in the slightest her few quips during cutscenes made playing as her all the more enjoyable.
Damn, the difference is crazy. These don't even seem like scenes from the same game.
Like I said, it's been awhile since I've touched Uncharted 1 or 2, and I didn't like the 3rd enough to continue it. I just remember it all being a bit more human and somewhat realistic than actually being shot at by a tank, helicopter, and several enemies while just kind of climbing around on exploding objects. Or literally being in a cutscene where several enemies are shooting at you while you're just standing there looking angry.
It's possible that Uncharted 1 and 2 where like that as well. I just recall kind of enjoying the first new Tomb Raider, and then immediately being turned off from the opening of the 2nd one where it seems like she was a main character in a Fast & Furious movie.
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I love how we still have people willfully ignoring the reasons people could possibly enjoy the classic Lara and pretending it all comes down to boobs. It's embarrassing at this point
LOL some of the optional tombs for better gear had incredibly hard puzzles
It's not the same. That's not at all what I'm talking about. She's a geek for all that stuff, and that's fine, but she never seems excited about the actual adventure of it all. Nothing about it is thrilling for her.
Didn't think I was supposed to like Lara. She's a character built around rich people doing crazy fucked up shit because they're bored.
I feel like they tried to give reboot Lara more of an interest in history to justify her actions but...yeah, you can't make a game like this and place your character's profession as 100% legitimate. Indy was making seedy black market deals. Nate's straight up a thief. Evie's from that time period where it was okay for British people to just steal all your shit, and yet is more interested in exploration than actually taking stuff.
I feel like they tried to give reboot Lara more of an interest in history to justify her actions but...yeah, you can't make a game like this and place your character's profession as 100% legitimate. Indy was making seedy black market deals. Nate's straight up a thief. Evie's from that time period where it was okay for British people to just steal all your shit, and yet is more interested in exploration than actually taking stuff.
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Actually, I didn't think it was that bad in 2013. It was different, for sure, but I could believe it because it was a completely inexperienced Lara Croft going through traumatic events. Her voice acting fit then, and while I couldn't recognize much of the traces of Lara Croft we're used to, I could see how she could grow to be a more bad ass protagonist without being emotionally shallow. I was legit excited for her future back then.
But throughout both sequels, her acting is very much the same. She speaks as if she just ran five miles, she always sounds like she's desperate, she sounds unprepared throughout the whole trilogy, there's very little resolve in her attitude and voice. It's like she never grew.
And having seen Camilla Luddington in Grey's Anatomy, I can say she really doesn't have a lot of range.
I can only speak for myself but I feel like the problem is that they didn't have to introduce a damsel for Lara to save in order to motivate her in her own origin story in the first place. If I remember correctly, her origin story in the classics was that she survived a plane crash and had to survive on her own before being found which was essentially the 'spark' for her. Yet in the reboot, it feels like a lot of the major aspects of her origins or even her iconic imagery is tied to characters we don't have a reason to care about: from her dad being the reason she's even an archeologist (even though her parents disowned her doing it in the classics), to Roth being the source of her iconic dual pistols, etc. I personally liked the early concepts of TR13 aka Ascension where it seemed to be more of a solo adventure on the island personally.
RIP this Lara.
While I do adore that Lara, and some of what you say I agree with the simple fact is Sam added to Lara's character as it showed her human side, the desire to protect people she loved instead of constantly doing it because her past (father) or because she was told.I can only speak for myself but I feel like the problem is that they didn't have to introduce a damsel for Lara to save in order to motivate her in her own origin story in the first place. If I remember correctly, her origin story in the classics was that she survived a plane crash and had to survive on her own before being found which was essentially the 'spark' for her. Yet in the reboot, it feels like a lot of the major aspects of her origins or even her iconic imagery is tied to characters we don't have a reason to care about: from her dad being the reason she's even an archeologist (even though her parents disowned her doing it in the classics), to Roth being the source of her iconic dual pistols, etc. I personally liked the early concepts of TR13 aka Ascension where it seemed to be more of a solo adventure on the island personally.
RIP this Lara.
Take Sam have her be an offsite so you don't see her, but keep all the banter and emotions that Lara has and Sam still absolutely helps Lara be Lara.
I personally don't mind the love interest being saved, millions of people love Drake and Elena, and I don't see any reason that it can't work for Lara/Sam.
While I don't really like modern Lara, I do have to give Crystal Dynamics credit for not Rambo-ing her. The first reboot Tomb Raider is basically First Blood -- someone is driven by extreme trauma and circumstances to become a killer. But while the Rambo sequels basically just turned the character into a generic action hero, Lara basically stayed fucked up. That doesn't make for a likable hero, but I give them points to sticking to their guns.
That said, yeah, it's time for something different. I'd like to see one that maybe takes notes from the Thief games -- have a confident adult Lara living in a European inspired city. Lots of costume changes, fun missions where she attends fancy parties ect. Maybe a romance! Have the titular tomb raiding involve her going down into the equivalent of the Paris catacombs (avoid the whole uncomfortable "stealing artifacts from indigenous people" thing).
That said, yeah, it's time for something different. I'd like to see one that maybe takes notes from the Thief games -- have a confident adult Lara living in a European inspired city. Lots of costume changes, fun missions where she attends fancy parties ect. Maybe a romance! Have the titular tomb raiding involve her going down into the equivalent of the Paris catacombs (avoid the whole uncomfortable "stealing artifacts from indigenous people" thing).
Jonahhhhhhhhh!!!!
*falls down a waterfall*
Oh gawd.
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
*gets out of the river*
Got to figure out where I am.
These markings... has someone been through here recently?
Jonahhhhhhhhh!!!!
(I do really like the games, just funny to make fun of :P)
OP
OP
You didn't play the latest game i see. The second video i posted in the OP is exactly about that. How she could go from crying to Rambo in a second.
From that perspective, completely, and I think it works pretty well.
That's the dad and son part that I found terrible.
I only liked her new personality in the first game of the reboot trilogy... I couldn't bring myself to finish part 2 nor 3, they felt like bad Uncharted games.
Here is the game for you @OP:
But yeah, while I've never liked the old Tomb Raider games her character was much better than in the reboot trilogy. A more light-hearted, fantasy/adventerous approach is what they should aim for.
But yeah, while I've never liked the old Tomb Raider games her character was much better than in the reboot trilogy. A more light-hearted, fantasy/adventerous approach is what they should aim for.
I don't know OP.
Going back to the old Core design where literally the only thing defining Lara as characters are a bunch of sex jokes, James Bond one liners and dubious camera angles doesn't seem to be the way to go.
I'm not gonna say that the new trilogy was really well written or anything, but people screaming "JUST GO BACK TO TR AND TR2! THEY WERE GREAT! LARA ROCKS!" Seem to have forgotten that her personality in those games was just the polar opposite but was similarly uninteresting.
I think there was a good mix forged with the TR: Legend/Underworld stuff as it actually puts weight on the lore of her family without her being some weird wanderlust focused maniac. But I'm also not going to pretend that those two games and the trio of horrible games that game before them were little more than absolutely piss poor action movie scripts.
Going back to the old Core design where literally the only thing defining Lara as characters are a bunch of sex jokes, James Bond one liners and dubious camera angles doesn't seem to be the way to go.
I'm not gonna say that the new trilogy was really well written or anything, but people screaming "JUST GO BACK TO TR AND TR2! THEY WERE GREAT! LARA ROCKS!" Seem to have forgotten that her personality in those games was just the polar opposite but was similarly uninteresting.
I think there was a good mix forged with the TR: Legend/Underworld stuff as it actually puts weight on the lore of her family without her being some weird wanderlust focused maniac. But I'm also not going to pretend that those two games and the trio of horrible games that game before them were little more than absolutely piss poor action movie scripts.
for me, the 'let's make lara croft 'vulnerable' ' re-imagining is basically equivalent to 'let's make lara croft not lara croft, but continue to refer to the games themselves as 'tomb raider' ' - pure 'have your cake & eat it' level incoherence, & an insult to a great character...
The same way she could go from shaking her tits for the camera to then shooting it two seconds later. Both are indicative of toxic extremes pushed by the writers to try to give their characters edge or depth and both fail miserably. The camera being shot by Lara as she's starting to undress in TR1 is just as cringy as those weird rapey moments in TR Reboot 1. They're both unnecessary and tript, but the writers absolutely consider them defining aspects of the character.
I really liked the first Tomb Raider reboot as an origin story for her, but then the second and third games felt like they kept dragging that out with that stupid Trinity storyline.
Also a minor issue, but it was really annoying that they ended the first game with Lara getting the dual pistols, but then they completely ignore that in both the sequels.
I guess they were so proud of the bow that they wanted that to be her new "thing".
Also a minor issue, but it was really annoying that they ended the first game with Lara getting the dual pistols, but then they completely ignore that in both the sequels.
I guess they were so proud of the bow that they wanted that to be her new "thing".
I don't think extremely superhuman confident uber-sexualized Lara is the goal. We were already mocking that trope back in 1993:
It's ok to not like the new personality (I don't like it either), but we can go to a new perspective updated to modern standards.
It's ok to not like the new personality (I don't like it either), but we can go to a new perspective updated to modern standards.
I just can't stand this character (never played the original games). They desperately need to get new (competent) writers and also a new voice actress if they ever go back to this franchise.
The gap in quality between TR games and something like Lost Legacy in terms of writing/enjoyable characters is just massive. There's a lot of room for improvement.
The gap in quality between TR games and something like Lost Legacy in terms of writing/enjoyable characters is just massive. There's a lot of room for improvement.
I feel like this first cutscene (where she is a ruthless terminator) is in line with gameplay.
But in the cutscene at the end of the video she is like a different person.
I think there needs to be a middle ground. The depiction of Lara in the older games was somewhat limited in depth, in line with late 90s standards. Technical limitations prevented any meaningful facial expressions being conveyed to the player, for example. I'm not sure that format would translate well to the gaming standards of today. That being said, I'd love for the next entry to channel some of the 90s 'tude the original games surfed on.
I think old and new Lara fuckin suck. Give someone else 1 more shot at a reboot that actually makes her great.