I am a retro gamer who wishes that they still made games for old systems.

[Mr Jones]

So, I REALLY like Xeno Crisis.

It's an arcade arena style shooter that came out on PC, modern consoles, and... the Sega Genesis / Mega Drive.



The game is great. It also helped me realize something. I want more Mega Drive and SNES games.

Folks have had 25+ years to fully understand the hardware. We have inexpensive FPGAs that could assist in getting these older consoles to do stuff that we'd NEVER dream of them doing back in the day.

It's not hard to get a Super Nintendo or Mega Drive. There's also 3rd Party alternatives like the Retron and Retro-bit that can play multiple systems. And there's plenty of folks who really dig having a physical game, rather than a downloaded one. I'd assume there's a market for it.

Did I mention that I like Xeno Crisis?

 

[oni-link]

It's def cool OP, I just don't think there is a huge market for it, and a lot of people who might want to make SNES style games will probably just make the game for PC and not have to work 100% with the limitations of the original hardware

 

[Mona]

I wish FF7 remake was a ps2 game

 

[eXistor]

Xeno Crisis is pretty cool indeed. I got it in some weeks ago and they nailed the look of the box and such. I haven't put much time in the game yet, but it feels really nice to play from the half hour I put into it.

 

[RedOnePunch]

I wish they'd still re-print old cartridges And CD's. It's so expensive to play original cartridges/CD's nowadays. Prices are bananas


Xeno Crisis Is cool.

 

[Fredrik]

As long as they're made as retro games it would be great. Kinda like GB versions of bigger games.

By the way, Farming Simulator 2019 is supposedly available on Commodore 64. There is a Limbo demo available somewhere as well. Haven't tried any of them to check the quality though.

 

[SoH]

Give Micro Mages a shot. It is NES but it is NROM meaning it would have been possible at launch with no fancy cart mappers but looks and plays incredibly well.



They did a breakdown of how they pulled some things off as well. Worth a watch.

 

[Manmademan]

Why wouldn't devs simply release a retro style game for current hardware rather than go through the process of manufacturing carts for dead platforms?

You can still do a physical release that way, Mega Man 9 did it iirc.

 

[Deleted member 2620]

lol saw the title, thought Xeno Crisis. It's an awesome game.

And I agree. I'd argue that if you're making a game targeting an older aesthetic, it's a potential win-win to develop it against an existing widely-emulated standard (like Genesis or Super Nintendo). Obviously there are development complications that come with making games for old hardware, though.

Why wouldn't devs simply release a retro style game for current hardware rather than go through the process of manufacturing carts for dead platforms?

Click to shrink...

Even if you don't manufacture carts, you're inherently making a game that can be played anywhere when you make an NES game in 2019. Dreamcast, PSP, modern phones, PS4, whatever. There's a value to that, I think, especially if you're interested in your game's aesthetic following the limitations of older hardware in the first place.

 

[Mizeris Lutz Ether Lanai]

There are plenty of retro inspired games like Shovel Knight. Sometimes these games nail it, and get the look & feel right while maybe giving you just an extra bit of parallax or detail or animation the original hardware couldn't pull off, but only those really familiar with the OG hardware would ever notice. Blaster Master Zero does this well.

Sometimes they go too hard for a retro look & end up missing it. Bloodstained: Curse of the Moon is clearly trying to look like Castlevania III, but they made it too gritty & grungy, while also too detailed in places.

Xeno Crisis is rare because if it were released as a regular downloadable indie game, you'd think it was also doing things the original hardware couldn't do. That's really what's special about it. An alternate universe where the 16-bit era never ended would be fascinating; some of those late 90s Brazil-only releases like Mortal Kombat 3 were insane, the hardware got pushed way beyond its limits. It would have melted people's brains if someone had been able to pull off something like that in 1993. It makes you wonder what 32-X CD could have really been capable of in the right hands.

 

[Teh_Lurv]

OP, there is a cottage industry of game programmers still creating new games for old systems. Sites like AtariAge and RetroUSB offer original homebrew games.

Folks have had 25+ years to fully understand the hardware. We have inexpensive FPGAs that could assist in getting these older consoles to do stuff that we'd NEVER dream of them doing back in the day.

Click to shrink...

The biggest hurdle to creating new games on those systems is the lack of SDKs, but that is beginning to change. A couple of years ago Atari VBasic was released and that led to the growth of 2600 homebrews. IIRC the 2600 downports of Sonic and SMB were done using VBasic. Late last year, a WYSIWYG editor called NESMaker was released to make the process of creating NES homebrews faster and simpler.

 

[Manmademan]

Even if you don't manufacture carts, you're inherently making a game that can be played anywhere when you make an NES game in 2019. Dreamcast, PSP, modern phones, PS4, whatever. There's a value to that, I think, especially if you're interested in your game's aesthetic following the limitations of older hardware in the first place.

Click to shrink...

This isn't specific to NES games. the same is true for retro style games on current platforms. Mega Man 9 would presumably run on a toaster if you wanted it to.

 

[Deleted member 2620]

This isn't specific to NES games. the same is true for retro style games on current platforms. Mega Man 9 would presumably run on a toaster if you wanted it to.

Click to shrink...

Making a native port still involves more work than wrapping it in an emulator, I'd imagine. Even with multiplatform libraries you're probably dealing with differences bigger than those found in emulation, and releasing something "native" (like MM9) on hardware dating back to the 90s sounds like a headache to me.

 

[Bony Manifesto]

Making a retro game for original hardware is something the programmers themselves have to find super-interesting, as it's vastly more work than making a retro-styled game for modern hardware.

 

[Nax]

I wish there were more. But I cant blame people for not wanting to code in Assembly.

 

[Deleted member 2620]

Making a retro game for original hardware is something the programmers themselves have to find super-interesting for them to bother with, as it's vastly more work than making a retro-styled game for modern hardware.

Click to shrink...

yeah, there's no doubt about this. I don't think it's a good universal route at all, I just see why some devs would opt for it. It's probably something I'd do if I were to start making a 2D game today.

 

[kubev]

We have inexpensive FPGAs that could assist in getting these older consoles to do stuff that we'd NEVER dream of them doing back in the day.

Click to shrink...

I'm not quite understanding what you're getting at here. If there's a reliance on a separate FPGA as an add-on, then I think that makes something like this even less viable from a financial standpoint.

That said, given the small size of development teams for a lot of older games, I'd love to see a company like Nintendo dedicate resources to creating new games for its old systems for availability on Nintendo Switch Online, along with a limited run of cartridges for people who wanted to play said games on the respective older systems.

 

[nbnt]

nvm

 

[angelgrievous]

Honest question for anyone that might know the answer:

How hard/expensive would it be for an indie developer to put their game on an old system if said game became successful?

Take Cosmic Star Heroine. Would bringing that to the Genesis/Mega Drive be more risk than reward?

 

[Zonnes]

Metal Gear Solid should have continued on NES all the way to Phantom Pain

Honest question for anyone that might know the answer:

How hard/expensive would it be for an indie developer to put their game on an old system if said game became successful?

Take Cosmic Star Heroine. Would bringing that to the Genesis/Mega Drive be more risk than reward?

Click to shrink...

very very hard, near impossible to be honest, the dev kits and the engines are very hard to use, I remember back when Capcom announced Megaman 9 someone asked the producer if they are using the original engine and he said that none of the members of the dev team could use the original engine and developing a game on those engines will take years

 

[Breakdown Robot]

In an ideal world, repro carts would see a resurgence the way vinyl has for music. As someone who isn't fond of flash carts and prefers to play with original hardware whenever possible, it'd be awesome to be able to get stuff like MMX2/3 or Little Samson without paying through the nose.

I think people making new games for old hardware is REALLY cool, too. Big problem I find though is you have to be tuned into these communities to ever have a shot at getting a copy. Like, by the time I find out about something I'd like try is often long sold out.

 

[maximumzero]

I'm 100% in for NES reprints and new games as long as they're not like $100 a pop.

Planning on ordering the Metal Storm repro cart from Retro-Bit soon and I've been eyeballing multiple eBay listings for their Holy Diver release as well recently.

 

[dskzero]

OP, there is a cottage industry of game programmers still creating new games for old systems. Sites like AtariAge and RetroUSB offer original homebrew games.



The biggest hurdle to creating new games on those systems is the lack of SDKs, but that is beginning to change. A couple of years ago Atari VBasic was released and that led to the growth of 2600 homebrews. IIRC the 2600 downports of Sonic and SMB were done using VBasic. Late last year, a WYSIWYG editor called NESMaker was released to make the process of creating NES homebrews faster and simpler.

Click to shrink...

I love the homebrew scene but I wasn't aware they had gone so far.

Last time I checked you had to work bassically with assembly for NES lol. I might be mistaken thought, it's been awhile.

 

[freikugeln]

Honest question for anyone that might know the answer:

How hard/expensive would it be for an indie developer to put their game on an old system if said game became successful?

Take Cosmic Star Heroine. Would bringing that to the Genesis/Mega Drive be more risk than reward?

Click to shrink...

First of all you would have to develop with the old console as the main system then port it elsewhere. The specs gap between an old console and any reasonably modern hardware is so huge that the reverse is nearly impossible.
Generally not worth the hassle for the developer and especially for the consumer as you 'll probably have to pay 2-3 times digital's asking price.

The biggest positive is that you can get more visibility if you advertise as a brand new game for *8bit/16bit console compared to just a another of the myriad retro inspired indie games on Steam.

 

[beelulzebub]

Why wouldn't devs simply release a retro style game for current hardware rather than go through the process of manufacturing carts for dead platforms?

You can still do a physical release that way, Mega Man 9 did it iirc.

Click to shrink...

I own one of these! The cart doesn't have anything in it. Purely decorative.

AFAIK Mega Man 9 is one of those retro style games that is actually more advanced than what the NES can actually run, but is deceptive because it really looks and sounds the part.

 

[lazygecko]

First of all you would have to develop with the old console as the main system then port it elsewhere. The specs gap between an old console and any reasonably modern hardware is so huge that the reverse is nearly impossible.
Generally not worth the hassle for the developer and especially for the consumer as you 'll probably have to pay 2-3 times digital's asking price.

The biggest positive is that you can get more visibility if you advertise as a brand new game for *8bit/16bit console compared to just a another of the myriad retro inspired indie games on Steam.

Click to shrink...

The 68K CPU has just enough juice in it to make development using C feasible instead of having to go full assembly. This is what enabled parallel development of the 16-bit and modern platform versions of Xeno Crisis, and I suspect the same is true for many of the smaller games coming out. Tanglewood is the one exception since they made a point of developing it using truly old school development kits instead of the more accessible modern alternatives.

Genesis/Mega Drive is the most supported machine for aftermarket game development since the hardware architecture is more accessible to programmers, which yields a snowball effect as reliable development tools are created and made available. To this day I wonder just how much Nintendo's draconic hardware lockouts/anti-piracy/bootleg measures ended up hampering the aftermarket prospects of the SNES.

 

[Manmademan]

I own one of these! The cart doesn't have anything in it. Purely decorative.

AFAIK Mega Man 9 is one of those retro style games that is actually more advanced than what the NES can actually run, but is deceptive because it really looks and sounds the part.

Click to shrink...

Yup. Which was the point. Retro styled but not literally a NES game.

Release it on whatever modern hardware that consumers have an interest in, from the PS5 to smart refrigerators if you want.

Making these games for dead systems like the SNES, Genesis, DC, or Jaguar doesn't make a lot of sense. Your audience would be in the dozens and never justify the aggravation.

 

[Sprat]

The dreamcast release scene is pretty active usually 5+ new games a year and most of them are decent

 

[Mr Jones]

lol saw the title, thought Xeno Crisis. It's an awesome game...

...Even if you don't manufacture carts, you're inherently making a game that can be played anywhere when you make an NES game in 2019. Dreamcast, PSP, modern phones, PS4, whatever. There's a value to that, I think, especially if you're interested in your game's aesthetic following the limitations of older hardware in the first place.

Click to shrink...

This is why I would think that it's viable. If you want to play it on old hardware, you got that choice! Otherwise, you'll be able to play it on either modern consoles or PC.

OP, there is a cottage industry of game programmers still creating new games for old systems. Sites like AtariAge and RetroUSB offer original homebrew games.



The biggest hurdle to creating new games on those systems is the lack of SDKs, but that is beginning to change. A couple of years ago Atari VBasic was released and that led to the growth of 2600 homebrews. IIRC the 2600 downports of Sonic and SMB were done using VBasic. Late last year, a WYSIWYG editor called NESMaker was released to make the process of creating NES homebrews faster and simpler.

Click to shrink...

Yup! The Mega Drive has a pretty decent SDK available, as well.

I'm not quite understanding what you're getting at here. If there's a reliance on a separate FPGA as an add-on, then I think that makes something like this even less viable from a financial standpoint...

Click to shrink...

Perhaps. I'm not a software engineer.

I'm going off of the knowledge of the NES having unique hardware mappers for audio in later games, and the SNES having games that used chips that assisted in handling 3d vector calculations. There's a cart out now that acts as a Mega CD, and allows you to play Sega CD games from the cartidge slot. Technology that allows the older consoles to do pretty sweet stuff.

 

[robjoh]

Not really into the 16bit systems but for NES there are plenty of homebrews available from the developers for a decent price if you live in USA.

In Europe Broke Studio has started to act as a publisher for other developers, so there you can get hold of stuff like Micro mages, twin dragons, Nebs and debs and I would guess soon Project Blue (kickstarted in November).

https://www.brokestudio.fr/en/front-page-en/

In USA there are many different outlets for buying homebrews for the NES, two big one is below:

https://www.infiniteneslives.com/index.php

https://retrousb.com/

The nesdev community is quite large and growing.

 

[Phantom]

My problem has more to do with the photorealism carrot on the stick devs/pubs are chasing. A lot of gamers define a game's worth by its looks, unfortunately. I wish we got more NES/SNES-inspired graphics with a lot of content. Fortunately, indies is where it's at. Games like Stardew Valley and CrossCode look like they are from another time, yet have more depth than a lot of so-called AAA productions.

16bits also has a very distinctive look that I love. There's something magical about it that gets lost with realism. I don't mind games that push boundaries and deliver state-of-the-art visuals, but to me it's always been a second thought. Artistic direction is much more important IMO, which is why budget titles can look and feel much better than the latest COD, Halo, etc.

 

[robjoh]

If you are interested in NES homebrews I would also like to recommend the Assembly line: An NES homebrew podcast.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-assembly-line-an-nes-homebrew-podcast/id1247222547

Talk about one homebrew every time they find some time to finish it.

Sadly nintendoage was bought out, so the community lost a good site.

Last year I think there was at least 4 games kickstarted for the NES.

 

[Deleted member 23046]

Give Micro Mages a shot. It is NES but it is NROM meaning it would have been possible at launch with no fancy cart mappers but looks and plays incredibly well.



They did a breakdown of how they pulled some things off as well. Worth a watch.

Click to shrink...

Wow!!!

 

[zma1013]

Seems like retro-styled modern games fit this need pretty perfectly. Unless you have some need to absolutely have to play on original hardware, and even then you can get retro controllers or adapters to fill that need. Mega Man 9? Looks and plays just like the NES games.

 

[robjoh]

The 68K CPU has just enough juice in it to make development using C feasible instead of having to go full assembly. This is what enabled parallel development of the 16-bit and modern platform versions of Xeno Crisis, and I suspect the same is true for many of the smaller games coming out. Tanglewood is the one exception since they made a point of developing it using truly old school development kits instead of the more accessible modern alternatives.

Genesis/Mega Drive is the most supported machine for aftermarket game development since the hardware architecture is more accessible to programmers, which yields a snowball effect as reliable development tools are created and made available. To this day I wonder just how much Nintendo's draconic hardware lockouts/anti-piracy/bootleg measures ended up hampering the aftermarket prospects of the SNES.

Click to shrink...

There is people doing NES games in C. Some people in the community is Assembly all the way others use C. There is also tools today to release NES games written in Assembly as PC games. Just packed into a emulator with a licence that allows for such a work. Micro mages was released on steam in such a way.

Yup. Which was the point. Retro styled but not literally a NES game.

Release it on whatever modern hardware that consumers have an interest in, from the PS5 to smart refrigerators if you want.

Making these games for dead systems like the SNES, Genesis, DC, or Jaguar doesn't make a lot of sense. Your audience would be in the dozens and never justify the aggravation.

Click to shrink...

I don't think NES development is very lucrative if you are not very successful; however Micro Mages raised 209 000 € on kickstarter and indigogo. As far as I know they are still selling copies. One of the involved is a full time NES developer after the success that was Micro Mages.

That guy has however showed that he is not only a good programmer he is very good game designer.

 

[Meatwad]

My problem has more to do with the photorealism carrot on the stick devs/pubs are chasing. A lot of gamers define a game's worth by its looks, unfortunately. I wish we got more NES/SNES-inspired graphics with a lot of content. Fortunately, indies is where it's at. Games like Stardew Valley and CrossCode look like they are from another time, yet have more depth than a lot of so-called AAA productions.

16bits also has a very distinctive look that I love. There's something magical about it that gets lost with realism. I don't mind games that push boundaries and deliver state-of-the-art visuals, but to me it's always been a second thought. Artistic direction is much more important IMO, which is why budget titles can look and feel much better than the latest COD, Halo, etc.

Click to shrink...

It's funny in retrospect looking at reviews for something like Street Fighter III and seeing critics complain that it wasn't some ugly 3D game which was the fashion at the time

 

[Deleted member 2620]

The 68K CPU has just enough juice in it to make development using C feasible instead of having to go full assembly. This is what enabled parallel development of the 16-bit and modern platform versions of Xeno Crisis, and I suspect the same is true for many of the smaller games coming out. Tanglewood is the one exception since they made a point of developing it using truly old school development kits instead of the more accessible modern alternatives.

Click to shrink...

I had no idea the modern platform versions of Xeno Crisis were native and not emulated. That's wild to me! Very cool though.

 

[onpoint]

There are a few devs still making games for old platforms. There is a scene for this for sure. It's a fun one to get into and watch for new games in.

Games like Star Versus and Super Russian Roulette for NES for example are out there and available.

Why wouldn't devs simply release a retro style game for current hardware rather than go through the process of manufacturing carts for dead platforms?

You can still do a physical release that way, Mega Man 9 did it iirc.

Click to shrink...

As mentioned before, this is merely decorative. MM9 does not run on NES hardware.

 

[Deleted member 13148]

Psytronik regularly releases games for older systems. They've got over 100 games in their catalogue.

 

[daninthemix]

Why wouldn't devs simply release a retro style game for current hardware rather than go through the process of manufacturing carts for dead platforms?

You can still do a physical release that way, Mega Man 9 did it iirc.

Click to shrink...

Yeah it's a ridiculous indulgence to release for retro platforms with only a handful of players, vs modern platforms with hundreds of millions of players. You'd have to be indipendently weathly / not care about revenue to do this.

 

[mindatlarge]

I keep forgetting to check out Xeno Crisis. Think I'll download it tonight.

 

[OmegaX]

I've seen some new NES games being crowd funded on Kickstarter from time to time. Other than Micro Mages that was already mentioned, I know of these 2:

Nebs 'n Debs (NES) by Dullahan Software

Run-jump-dashing-platforming-crystal-collecting action!

dullahan-software.itch.io

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/nesgame/project-blue/description

 

[robjoh]

I've seen some new NES games being crowd funded on Kickstarter from time to time. Other than Micro Mages that was already mentioned, I know of these 2:

Nebs 'n Debs (NES) by Dullahan Software

Run-jump-dashing-platforming-crystal-collecting action!

dullahan-software.itch.io

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/nesgame/project-blue/description

Click to shrink...

As a backer of project Blue, I decided to support the game long before the kickstarter was launched as I played the NESdev edition which I really enjoyed, I just want to say that it is possible buy Project Blue even if the kickstarter is over. In update 20 of the kickstarter there is information on how to do so.

I have not played Nebs 'N' Debs but if you are located in Europe that game is also available from Broke Studio. Somewhat cheaper than to import from the USA.

https://www.brokestudio.fr/en/shop/nebs-n-debs-2/

EDIT:
Broke Studio has also developed Twin Dragons. Which I think is a solid 7-8 out of 10. The water level is frustrating however other parts is great.