Australia seems to be doing fine. Why can't other countries? I have the option to return a game within a week or two, even after opening the plastic wrap and finishing the game.
I’d like to discuss the PlayStation Store’s not great refund policy
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OP
OP
Sheepinator said:
Your most recent post as opposed to one of your first posts in this thread shows kind of a remarkable turnaround. Not one person in this thread has made anything close to the argument you're starting off with in that first quoted post. Me included. So that's silly. Nobody in this thread has made the argument that doing what you're talking about in that post is the only possible standard for my own interest. There's certainly got to be some kind of line drawn somewhere, but I'll say it again, the line shouldn't be what it is right now. That's the point of the thread. If it's three hours, two hours, a day, whatever, cool. "I didn't get a refund when I asked, and so you shouldn't expect one either" is a weak, weak point of discussion when this literally affects all customers of the store.
This. I never hear shit like this for any other medium but gaming and it really comes off entitled. Like some people should just be able to get back everything just because they don't like it, and at any time too. If I buy an album and only liked 3 songs, I'm not about to go and ask for a refund. That's fucked up. I committed to buying the album and I'm committed to keeping it even if it wasn't the greatest. It's so scummy to request your money back for something like that.
However I do believe you can't put a price on anyone's happiness so if they do, then they absolutely should be able to....
....Doesn't make the rest of the world not look at you like an asshole or a brat for not wanting to suck it up for your irresponsiblity. Ugh, it just reminds me of that lady who was fighting those workers at red lobster for her refund because she had to wait 3 hours for her meal on the busiest day of the year, in a crisis, on the first day of opening for the restaurant, KNOWING that they are low staffed, to make a fit and cause a scene.
You should read the post again, if that's the take you somehow came away with.
OP
OP
I read it perfectly fine. You're making some real bad faith arguments in here, and have been doing so. If that's all you want to do, I can't really stop you, but I don't think I'm going to entertain the discussion anymore.
What bad faith argument? Do go on.
I said they won't drop the price on pre-orders that drop their price. True? With me clearly saying that's bad. I expressed outrage at their customer support doing a stealth ban.
Where is the bad faith? Where did I say that if I didn't get a refund that one time that nobody should, as you claimed? I did not, that was you posting in bad faith.
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I feel you on this OP.
I have tried exactly once to refund anything through Sony over all these years.
I called them the day I got No Mans Sky.
I was so pissed and disappointed.
When I said the name of the game they stopped me and said they had been getting calls all day and I could get a 1 time refund if I choose to use it on this. And they would NEVER issue one again, ever. I was shocked by that.
I got the refund but that left a bitter taste in my mouth to this day.
I have probably spent 50,000+ on Sony since the PS1, no joke, and they're gonna play like that? Bullshit
I have tried exactly once to refund anything through Sony over all these years.
I called them the day I got No Mans Sky.
I was so pissed and disappointed.
When I said the name of the game they stopped me and said they had been getting calls all day and I could get a 1 time refund if I choose to use it on this. And they would NEVER issue one again, ever. I was shocked by that.
I got the refund but that left a bitter taste in my mouth to this day.
I have probably spent 50,000+ on Sony since the PS1, no joke, and they're gonna play like that? Bullshit
Why should I think it's wrong? Games sells very well here, and people don't return games just because we feel like it. People keep their games or sell them here
OP
OP
God damn, dude. I've spent a fair bit myself, but I don't think it's $50,000.
I mean maybe it's less. I've owned every console and handheld about bought hundreds of games on each pretty much. Adding in controllers, PS Plus, PSVR etc it's got to be shocking number that I probably don't want to know lol. Point being I spend an absolute shit-ton of money with your company over 20 years - like, the most loyal customer ever - and you tell me like i'm a child "you are getting this ONE REFUND and never, ever will receive another no matter what"
It's a slap in the face to say the least and soured me on Sony a bit when it happened. But here I am, still buying tons of games and getting the PS5 and continuing the cycle so I guess I'm part of the problem. But this stance of theirs is complete and utter anti consumer bullshit taken to level 11. It's embarassing.
I've always thought it slightly weird that people want to get their money back for a game just because they don't like it. Is the game bugged to shit and nearly unplayable? (No Man's Sky) then sure, get your money back. But just because you don't like the game? That seems entitled as shit to me.
I feel that is like going to a restaurant and asking for a refund because you ordered something and it turns out you don't like it. Nothing wrong with the food, turns out you just don't like indian food or something...
I feel that is like going to a restaurant and asking for a refund because you ordered something and it turns out you don't like it. Nothing wrong with the food, turns out you just don't like indian food or something...
Why is it entitled? A digital game isn't consumed upon use. Many things, when you buy them, have a return policy that still allows you to use the product, and you can get some kind of resale value out of physical goods. Most software at least has a trial. With games, you can only rely on external sources of information rather than getting some hands-on time. For digital goods and games in particular, the advantages are tipped heavily in favor of the the distributor/developer. It's completely off balance.
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Why are all defence forcers bring up irrelevant shit to the discussion?
I go buy a game from EB Games tomorrow, and in two days i just say "i want to retrun this". That's all, zero issues. We've been doing fine since forever
I don't know, I just feel at some point part of the purchasing process is my responsibility. Defective or misleading products should always be able to be refunded, I wouldnt argue against that.
But if I go to see a movie and half way through it I hate it, I don't go up to the AMC counter and demand my money back. If I buy a book and 8 chapters in I think it's shit, I don't go to Barnes and Noble and get pissed if they won't let me return it. If I buy a new car and 900 miles later decide I would have preffered it in red I wouldn't expect the dealership to let me switch.
If I buy a game and play it for 3 hours I don't think I should expect a refund just because I didn't like it. There are countless review sites, let's plays, video overviews and sometimes even demos available for games. You should never go into a game purchase blind. If a company wants to offer no question asked refunds as a benefit to using their service I'm not against it. But I think acting like I somehow am entitled to it is...well entitled.
I understand some of you will take great insult to this opinion but honestly I just think people should just be a little bit more responsible for their own choices at times.
OP
OP
I recognize this isn't the case for everyone doing so, but it really feels like for a lot of them it's Stockholm syndrome almost. They haven't had a good experience, so they think that's the way it should be and that anyone advocating for a better system is entitled somehow, lol.
I bought Superhot on sale, and thought it was Superhot VR. I checked for the VR version to see if it was on sale and it wasn't.
I explained and they refunded me without hassle. The hardest part was getting through to the support line because they "laughably" close for lunch.
I explained and they refunded me without hassle. The hardest part was getting through to the support line because they "laughably" close for lunch.
OP
OP
*buys hundreds and hundreds of games from a store over a decade*
*Dislikes a game and explores options for refunds for the first time ever with that store, makes a thread about it*
*Gets called entitled*
Kind of amazing.
You could probably get your money back for that book unless you scuffed it up. The ticket to a movie is part service (projection, seating, etc.), part the movie itself. In addition, trailers of movies are more representative of the experience than trailers of games are. Demos are the equivalent for games -- which most games don't have. It's like if a movie made you only go by stills beforehand. It's not really comparable. And the car loses value by driving it. It's a mechanical device. You can get a test drive with cars. Also not comparable.
Digital purchases (and rentals) in general are heavily skewed in the favor of the distributors. Watching or reading a review is just not the same as hands on time. Sometimes, you just don't like a thing. And the distributor loses almost nothing by letting you return it while gaining goodwill. That money will probably be spent on another game. Reducing risk aversion with proper satisfaction/return policies is good. People will end up buying more stuff in all likelihood.
It's not a matter of entitlement; it's just good business and being consumer-friendly. And, hey, maybe there will be less shovelware on digital stores if people can easily refund that stuff. Or games will be more technically sound. Reviews don't always (read: rarely, if ever) cover poor frame pacing or intermittent stutters or a whole heap of niche issues that can nonetheless be dealbreakers.
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I think the opinion of the user you quoted is completely right. People need to be more responsible. If the games are broke or defective then refunding is totally understandable.
Too bad their opinion doesn't mean anything in my country. I can return a game any time I feel within the given time which is 1-2 weeks. Maybe try having better consumer laws
Maybe try asking for a refund. I've bought multiple games from the Playstation store that they refunded me even though their policy says they don't.
Then you're fortunate your country has such favorable laws for the consumers then.
This begs the question, if this is indeed the case why doesn't every digital store allow this? Business's are greedy, not stupid. Clearly allowing people to refund anything they want has to cost them something they feel is worth more than goodwill. Even Steam and Xbox don't let you return a game you've played for very long. And Sony has the same policy (minus the playing part). Nintendo has an even tighter digital return policy than Sony if I'm not mistaken.
If it was a simple matter of just allowing people to return any game they want without losing anything and in return gaining some "intangible" goodwill, don't you think SOMEONE would have done it by now?
Yeah, GOG does it. 30 days no questions asked. And at least being able to try a game like on Steam should be the minimum. I've filed a plenty of refunds under the "didn't meet my expectations" header without issue. Then spent that money on another game.
So how does GOG counter people just buying a game, beating it in a week and returning it over and over and over? Shorting themselves and developers out of money they rightfully earned.
They can refuse the refund request if they deem it suspect. If you abuse the system or obviously finished a game or something, you probably won't get that refund.
It's a recent change and the small print makes it sound like they're aware of the potential for abuse.
Steam's refund policy should be standard across all digital stores.
It's baffling that people would defend Sony on this.
It's baffling that people would defend Sony on this.
Steam wouldn't refund him either playing as much as he did especially because it wasn't technical issues. That's the issue he played the game and decided a few hours in I don 't like it, every gaming store has similar rules for refund. Should Sony, Microsoft and other digital storefronts make it easier to get a refund? yes but I don't see any reason why OP should get a refund in this instance.
The first refund experience was after purchasing digital Fallout 4 on sale last year. I had a physical copy, that I gave to a friend as I hadn't played for 2 years. I fought about getting back into it but, for some reason, your physical saves don't transfer on the PS4 for some games. (Despite not being the case on PS3/360 and XB1) There is nothing advertising this. It also refused to run properly. Like it was a five minutes then inta crash situation. So I asked for a refund a day later, explaining the issue and showing the receipt I had of purchase.
They responded saying I had trophies on the game and therefore would only consider the refund If I could provide evidence:
"If you own the game on disc we will need to see dated images of the copy of the disc, box, and proof of purchase." [From the Email]
I purchased it online at launch, didn't have access to the email address anymore and the site I used was defunct. I managed to get my game, took pictures of the box and disc...jesus...and explained the site was gone, sending links to the now closed site and showing their last tweets/facebook updateswere from 2017. I even managed to find a trustpilot review I gave the site (which included me referring to Fallout conveniently...god it was a pretentious review) I took screens of the first trophy I got (back in 2015) and the last one I got (in 2017) as well as a receipt for buying the season pass in 2016.
This was evidently not enough and my refund was refused. I had to contest it twice and they begrudingly returned the funds to my wallet and stated this was a one time discretionary thing. Eat my butt Sony.
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They responded saying I had trophies on the game and therefore would only consider the refund If I could provide evidence:
"If you own the game on disc we will need to see dated images of the copy of the disc, box, and proof of purchase." [From the Email]
I purchased it online at launch, didn't have access to the email address anymore and the site I used was defunct. I managed to get my game, took pictures of the box and disc...jesus...and explained the site was gone, sending links to the now closed site and showing their last tweets/facebook updateswere from 2017. I even managed to find a trustpilot review I gave the site (which included me referring to Fallout conveniently...god it was a pretentious review) I took screens of the first trophy I got (back in 2015) and the last one I got (in 2017) as well as a receipt for buying the season pass in 2016.
This was evidently not enough and my refund was refused. I had to contest it twice and they begrudingly returned the funds to my wallet and stated this was a one time discretionary thing. Eat my butt Sony.
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I had awful experiences with Sony customer service over a refund due to their own error so I'm not surprised they're not generous with goodwill refunds ProfessionalBastard.
Frankly, it was one of the final straws that led me to switching platforms it was so tiresome. Incompetent account management is unforgivable on a store from a company the size of Sony and a division with the pull of Playstation.
That said, at three hours I think only GOG would process this no questions asked though I suspect Steam would also process it if you had a normal history without questionable refunds in the past.
Good luck in the future and sorry to hear you aren't digging Control.
Frankly, it was one of the final straws that led me to switching platforms it was so tiresome. Incompetent account management is unforgivable on a store from a company the size of Sony and a division with the pull of Playstation.
That said, at three hours I think only GOG would process this no questions asked though I suspect Steam would also process it if you had a normal history without questionable refunds in the past.
Good luck in the future and sorry to hear you aren't digging Control.
Pretty much how I feel. Refunds should be for broken games and misleading marketing, not because you didn't like it. Do the smallest amount of research first.
That being said, Sony should just adapt the 2 hour refund policy and call it a day, customer service would be so much easier to deal with.
OP
OP
Thanks dude. And yeah, I realize that not everyone would be able to assist me, but it doesn't preclude doing better than essentially telling long-term customers to fuck themselves with any and all requests. Like, if it didn't assist me that's okay, but it could assist someone else in the future.
And yeah, I thought I'd like Control from what I did see of it, and it was well-reviewed. But it's just not clicking at all for me, and I had to mess with the lighting settings a ton. I'm still not totally happy with it. That game seems to have nothing but extremes with the lighting on it. It's either way too dark in darker environments and the brighter parts are okay or it's so bright it gives me a headache, but the darker areas are better defined.
I'm on a PS4 Pro with an OLED TV. This is literally the only game I have the lighting issue with, too. I thought I had gone crazy for a second and booted up another game to check - it was fine. Just Control.
I do agree the refund policy could be far better. Even something like Steam would be a vast improvement over what Sony currently has.
I do think consumers need to realize though that the employees answering your calls/helping you with issues don't care how much money/time you've spent on their platform. It's their job to assist you as best they can, not to make decisions based on how much you love Playstation. I know that stinks, but it's just the nature of the beast, consumers create a loyalty for companies, not the other way around.
When I was a kid I worked at Toys R Us(it wasn't great), and I would always do my best to help people out if something wasn't working right/they wanted a return/etc. and heard several times how they've had a Toys R Us Card for years and if I don't help them they'll never come back again. That literally had zero bearing on how well I could help or not. Sometimes the employees can't help you due to the policies of the company they work for. (Which is what this post is about I know, but still). While some CSRs could use better attitudes, there are a lot of them that are good at their jobs and understand where you're coming from, but it's just not in their power to help.
Edit: I don't think you're really arguing against this point, but I've seen it come up a few times in the thread and just wanted to post about it.
I still think their opinion is fine. We don't have those laws here and even if we did, I wouldn't change my practice of refunding every game that I find not up to my taste. I typically do my due diligence and research a game to make sure it's something I would like to invest in. If I don't like it, I just keep it and try it again later. I don't think any game I've ever purchased has been objectively bad. If something is broken, I wouldn't buy it to begin with.
And yes, I still think the tone/way in which you are responding to me is very entitled as "matter of fact" and you would like to be right. It's fine, if your country allows you to refund games with no questions asked, then that's beneficial to you. You can totally do what is given to you as a right to do so.
My perspective also comes from a business point of view since I do business with e-commerce platforms. It's frustrating when you sell something and customers on Amazon or any other platform files a complaint and says it's defective when in actuality, you know it's not defective after looking at pictures and realize it's just either not liked by the customer or misused instead of defective due to craftsmanship. It's fine, you learn to deal with it since it's part of the business, you just try your best not to refund every single complaint that comes your way otherwise you lose more money than you make since many customers do take advantage of the return policy, so you forecast the cost of returns and move on with the business. Doing business has changed my perspective so that my own customer practices has been to research what I would like to buy before making the jump. Unless something is substantially wrong or mis-marketed then I return it.
Just my two cents, we have different opinions.
No problem at all and i think that second paragraph (along with the fact digital goods are infinitely reproducible and suffer no degradation by way of use) is key to why games refunds after limited use seem perfectly fair. Watching a game is fundamentally different to playing a game and even on consoles there will be differences in user experience across different living rooms.
But why should you be entitled to your money back just because you made a bad purchase? I get it if a game is outright faulty OR maybe I could understand if a game was purchased by mistake and wasn't played then perhaps a refund could be an option. But playing a couple of hours and deciding you don't like it and wanting all your money back? That's a bit self entitled in my eyes but each to their own opinion I guess.
I mean, I like football, but if I pay money to get through the gates and decide I want to leave after ten minutes because my team is playing garbage and I'm not entertained I can leave sure, but I don't get money back. It's my choice.
There are plenty of ways to try games beforehand. Demos, renting, gameshare or whatever it's called on ps4 etc.
I just don't understand why people think you should be entitled to a full refund after playing something for a few hours. You can't watch half an hour of a film and take it back to the shops, nor listen to a cd and decide the album is rubbish.
You can argue that pc stores or whatever they are called do it ( I don't own a pc) but that's neither here nor there. Just because they do it, doesn't mean everyone should morally follow suit.
I have a family and am married and have a busy job etc. But the fact is, if I'm going to lay down £40 on a game, you can bet I'm gonna spend ten minutes here and there making sure I'm not buying a piece of trash. A review takes 2 minutes to read. A walkthrough maybe 5 minutes to decide if you like the look. An OT forum on here maybe needs a couple of pages of reading to gauge the general consensus on a game.
Basically, if your chucking a load of money at a game and you don't like it, youre not entitled to get your money back.
Yeah, playstation customer service is a joke.
Do they still have that trash ass one time only policy?
Do they still have that trash ass one time only policy?