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How is it difficult for Sony to have full BC with PS1 & PS2 games, yet Microsoft can have BC with OG Xbox & Xbox 360 games?
- Thread starter SpaceCrystal
- Start date
Let's try to ignore the "easy" description used in the OP.
The fact of the matter is that it's disappointing as fuck that Sony did absolutely nothing with BC this gen. Not being able to play my PS1 Classics sucked.
The fact of the matter is that it's disappointing as fuck that Sony did absolutely nothing with BC this gen. Not being able to play my PS1 Classics sucked.
Haha oh man. You're serious aren't you? I guess you just pulled an almost exact quotation, which Jim Ryan said about this very topic, out of your butt then? What a coincidence. Quit the insincerity, it's lame.
It's called a reference/paraphrasing (barely). I did not quote him.
I'm sorry I criticized Sony.
This is what I'm talking about. This insincerity is maddening. You knew exactly what I meant and instead of having an actual conversation, you decided to play "well actually" like a child.
I don't care that you criticized Sony, I care that you treated me like a fucking idiot.
Here's a picture of Oscar Martinez, a fellow "well actually" member:
This is what I'm talking about. This insincerity is maddening. You knew exactly what I meant and instead of having an actual conversation, you decided to play "well actually" like a child.
I don't care that you criticized Sony, I care that you treated me like a fucking idiot.
Here's a picture of Oscar Martinez, a fellow "well actually" member:
What are you on about?
Backwards compatibility was the number one requested feature for xbox customers.
I've seen this sentiment expressed before about BC and also about MS efforts to push crossplay. 99% of the time, it's made in bad faith. Stop.
I think I also read something about they being forward thinking and adding a particular difficult thing in hardware to help the software side?
It was the number one most requested feature on Xbox uservoice surveys.
The Crash PS2 games topped the PSN digital charts.
only about 5% of PS4 owners own PSVR. Should Sony stop VR efforts, too? Afterall, it's a 'small group' too.
Nearly 600 360 games, with more likely once XSX launches. It's certainly much better than the feature not existing at all.
Yup they aren't ports. This is a legitimate wrapper around the actual games. The discs just a generic key to download the wrapped version of the game.
The fact that the One was planned to have bc because the hardware has native support for 360 in certain ways shows you that this was not an afterthought.
Lol, of course it is. Tell us how easy it is to make an emulator, I'm eagerly waiting.
The way they tried to resell the PS2 games was never going to be successful. That doesn't mean there isn't money to make. Look how sales increased for some games that became bc on Xbox One.
To me it all comes down to getting rid of old hardware which also tends to break when getting older. Being able to play a PlayStation game, no matter from which generation, on the most recent PlayStation hardware iteration sounds great and actually would be great. It would tell confidence in what you are buying now you can play on PS8.
This is where I come at it from as well. People don't get these older CD systems break easily, and are only going to get worst as they age. I cross my fingers every time I start up my Sega CD and Saturn.
Most games aren't available digitally either so I really don't want to lose a lot of these games to time.
PS1 would be low hanging fruit and could probably be achieved by a small development team that was making use of existing open source emulators. I think the biggest challenges would be licensing old games to download, testing for compatibility across the whole library and ensuring that you could play CDs on a modern console.
PS2 would be achievable but would require more specialised staff and more time. Sony have already put a lot of work into supporting PS2 games on PS3 and PS4. Ensuring compatibility with a wide range of games across the library would require a lot of fine tuning and testing. I would say that Sony would be able to provide support for PS2 to a similar level as MS have provided for Xbox and 360 games.
PS3 would need to be done on a per-game basis. Remakes, remasters or ports would probably be a better option. RPCS3 has support for a good range of games on PC but the performance and requirements are highly variable across each game. Certain games require individual fixes, compatibility settings or even custom builds of the emulator to work at a playable state. Their compatibility list states that 54% of games are playable, meaning that the performance is acceptable on recommended hardware and there are no game breaking glitches. This is the highest level of compatibility that they state and comes far below what would be needed on a commercial platform.
PS2 would be achievable but would require more specialised staff and more time. Sony have already put a lot of work into supporting PS2 games on PS3 and PS4. Ensuring compatibility with a wide range of games across the library would require a lot of fine tuning and testing. I would say that Sony would be able to provide support for PS2 to a similar level as MS have provided for Xbox and 360 games.
PS3 would need to be done on a per-game basis. Remakes, remasters or ports would probably be a better option. RPCS3 has support for a good range of games on PC but the performance and requirements are highly variable across each game. Certain games require individual fixes, compatibility settings or even custom builds of the emulator to work at a playable state. Their compatibility list states that 54% of games are playable, meaning that the performance is acceptable on recommended hardware and there are no game breaking glitches. This is the highest level of compatibility that they state and comes far below what would be needed on a commercial platform.
My understanding is it was a huge undertaking for MS, and really the sort of investment they only made because their market position was so weak and they needed goodwill gestures towards the fans. That said, my hope would be that Sony could approach major publishers and offer to match whatever deal MS made to get BC licensed for PS5.
It wasn't "easy" for Microsoft. Or cheap.
What the BC team has done with BC has been nothing short of miraculous.
Elements of 360 hardware were put in the Xbox One APU. Which would suggest it most certainly was planned prior to release.
Also, they haven't wrapped on BC support. They've wrapped on BC support for Xbox One. The BC efforts will continue with the next generation consoles.
What the BC team has done with BC has been nothing short of miraculous.
Elements of 360 hardware were put in the Xbox One APU. Which would suggest it most certainly was planned prior to release.
Also, they haven't wrapped on BC support. They've wrapped on BC support for Xbox One. The BC efforts will continue with the next generation consoles.
Sony is a billion dollar company. They could easily assemble a small team to create an emulator. The only reason they´re not doing it is that they don´t want to. And a few thousand sales for one or two BC games are not going to change that.
Sony didn't really care about BC, reselling "enhanced" versions is much more profitable (and it seems like the Sony customers had no issue with this).
MS invested a lot of time and money in it, it will be a BIG effort for Sony to follow this. Nothing easy about it. Also MS uses their own OS and they are a software company, they are just much better positioned to deliver BC.
MS invested a lot of time and money in it, it will be a BIG effort for Sony to follow this. Nothing easy about it. Also MS uses their own OS and they are a software company, they are just much better positioned to deliver BC.
Well there are few things:
1) Microsoft invested heavily on their Xbox One emulator during 360 era and Xbox 360 emulator this gen. This paid off. Their emulator is essentially good enough to pretty much be plug and play without much fiddling around and in case of One X, it can simply increase the pixel count. And now they have the capacity to keep taking all of this forward.
2) Sony didn't invest in their emulator as well. And instead went all in on selling remasters.
3) PS3 is harder to emulate, especially with the terrible jaguar cores as emulation is more about CPU. And I doubt Sony is ever going to bother with it even with PS5.
4) Sony wanted every game to have trophy support, this by default makes whatever emulator they have the opposite of plug and play.
So it's basically because Sony had a series of bad or backwards thinking decision whereas Microsoft was always forward thinking wrt. emulation which has led us to here today.
1) Microsoft invested heavily on their Xbox One emulator during 360 era and Xbox 360 emulator this gen. This paid off. Their emulator is essentially good enough to pretty much be plug and play without much fiddling around and in case of One X, it can simply increase the pixel count. And now they have the capacity to keep taking all of this forward.
2) Sony didn't invest in their emulator as well. And instead went all in on selling remasters.
3) PS3 is harder to emulate, especially with the terrible jaguar cores as emulation is more about CPU. And I doubt Sony is ever going to bother with it even with PS5.
4) Sony wanted every game to have trophy support, this by default makes whatever emulator they have the opposite of plug and play.
So it's basically because Sony had a series of bad or backwards thinking decision whereas Microsoft was always forward thinking wrt. emulation which has led us to here today.
This is why I like the emulation scene, since more than 20 years now. I know that there is a problem regarding piracy in that topic but on the positive side, games are actually preserved by passionists all over the world to save these pieces of art and emulators make sure these games can be played in 100 years still.
We have yet to reach that state with current generation games (Xbox One and PS4) as both are not fully hacked and the patches I think are also not available to the public but I hope we will get there with these systems, too.
Microsoft dedicated the resources needed to get 360 Support onto XB1, Sony didn't, MS also designed the XB1 to support 360 Audio and texture formats in the hardware. It's clear that MS thought about future compatibility early on and designed the XB1 and the XB1 OS around this future. Hence why Xbox Series is able to easily support Xbox One with the BC program games. Sony couldn't with the PS5 because of they are using hardware BC to emulate the PS4 and Pro and the hardware they have now is a result of trying to maintain compatibility.
Yep exactly, you're going to be very disappointed if you think you can stick any og Xbox and 360 disc in it and it will work.
I'd be happy just to even be able to access all the old games via streaming or whatever, I own all legacy systems, but it's a pain in the hole to set them up every time you want to stick on something. Even swapping out for a modded PSX Classic/SNES/Megadrive etc is an annoyance.
I'd actually just be happy with a CD Player included on the PS5, the lack of CD audio playback on the PS4 is baffling.
I'd actually just be happy with a CD Player included on the PS5, the lack of CD audio playback on the PS4 is baffling.
Yeah Microsoft pulling off 360 on Xbox one Emulation is unreal. Just like og Xbox on 360 emulation was. I don't think anyone else can pull off what they've done with BC. Facts.
of course. But at this point the talkign point has become 'MS has full bc, you can play all previous games - why can't Sony do that?'
MS only have 39 OG Xbox games available on xb1. Sony have 54 ps2 games playable on PS4. Difference being commercial - you have to rebuy on PlayStation. But there is access to those games.
the big difference is 360 (And equiv lack of ps3 BC). And that shows 560 titles out of over 2000 released, so about25% are BC - still nowhere near full BC but enough doverage of the big titles.
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Sure, a small team would suffice to build an emulator because what's so special about it, right? I think you are heavily underestimating the effort you need to make a proper emulator.
If you haven't replaced the capacitors yet you're on borrowed time, they are notorious for spewing their guts all over the board and corroding everything.
Is this an inverse dick waving contest? "Look, they have even less titles than the other one." Every title that is bc is great and there is no way to put this as bad at all. We know that there is no full bc right now on Xbox and a few people stating otherwise a hardly a good starting point for an argumentation just to make a point that doesn't even exist.
Also, sorry, but using a dead platform, the Vita, in this discussion is also misleading as the Vita solution is essentially only a proxy of the bc of another dead platform, the psp.
Well the PS2 had PS1 BC, and the original PS3 had PS1 and PS2 (Limited) BC. It's only the PS4 that bucked that trend because of how complicated emulation is for the PS3, but it should of had PS1 BC at least.
The PS5, going by reports, has PS4 BC so going forward Sony shouldn't have any problems.
Anytime Xbox introduces a feature, please just comment "Panic response" and resume your daily business, as it is after all, just a panic response. Nothing to be alarmed about.
Thing is that PS2 had a PS1 in it so that's not really emulation while still being bc. PS3 also had PS2 hardware in it and only later used an emulator with limited reach. PS1 nowadays can run on a toaster or an even less capable device like the PSC, if you change the default emulator.
MS have spent years making BC so damn good. The fact they have a dedicated team for BC stuff is very telling. I expect them to do some amazing stuff for Nextgen.
As for Sony, they have loads of catching up to do but I am sure they will have something in the pipeline it might not be as expansive as what MS has, mainly due to not having the time but I am sure PS5 with have BC. Exactly how much and how it works is to be seen. I presume they cannot use the same MS method, so they would have to do their own thing.
As for Sony, they have loads of catching up to do but I am sure they will have something in the pipeline it might not be as expansive as what MS has, mainly due to not having the time but I am sure PS5 with have BC. Exactly how much and how it works is to be seen. I presume they cannot use the same MS method, so they would have to do their own thing.
Well they did it for 2 generations and when they got rid of it mid PS3 gen it seems to not have impacted sales, sales actually increased without it. So from the business side why waste the time and money.
As a consumer i would prefer a remake of PS1-PS3 games, updated visuals and gameplay is more appealing to me than being able to play my old library on current gen consoles.
For me i hung on to all my old consoles. All that being said i totally get why folks want their legacy games brought with them onto current platform.
As a consumer i would prefer a remake of PS1-PS3 games, updated visuals and gameplay is more appealing to me than being able to play my old library on current gen consoles.
For me i hung on to all my old consoles. All that being said i totally get why folks want their legacy games brought with them onto current platform.
Emulation isn't easy by any stretch. Specification wise, I'd say the base PS4 is plenty powerful enough to emulate PS1/2 era games with enhancements to resolution, loading etc. The PS3 is another beast entirely. I don't truly believe what MS have done is backwards compatibility, they've had to add games to a supported list. Indicating that there are either compatibility issues which require patching on a per game basis or that there is licencing issues, most likely both.
IMO backwards compatibility is being able to put my original disc in, or use a PS1 classic that I bought for use on my PS3/PSP and be able to start playing the game.
I'd expect the reason is purely a business decision. Sony and MS have both tried to publish previous era games either by faux backwards compatibility or porting PS2 games to work on the PS4. MS fared better in this regard but still left more games unsupported than supported.
I think the old days of huge generational leaps purely in graphics and power are mostly gone. People want backwards compatibility, forward compatibility, cross-play, cross-buy. These are the things that people want, and these are the things that people will pay for.
IMO backwards compatibility is being able to put my original disc in, or use a PS1 classic that I bought for use on my PS3/PSP and be able to start playing the game.
I'd expect the reason is purely a business decision. Sony and MS have both tried to publish previous era games either by faux backwards compatibility or porting PS2 games to work on the PS4. MS fared better in this regard but still left more games unsupported than supported.
I think the old days of huge generational leaps purely in graphics and power are mostly gone. People want backwards compatibility, forward compatibility, cross-play, cross-buy. These are the things that people want, and these are the things that people will pay for.
Yes. People here are saying "it was not easy for MS, they invested time and money". Well, I might not know how hard or easy it was, but both Sony and MS achieved the technicalities.
The issue might be with licensing, trophies and business model.
Ah, I'm sure you didn't write the title to this thread with a bad intent, but I'm sure it can be hurtful to many devs. Especially those who work for companies where their higher ups have that same kind of attitude - I've seen this functionality/ app/ whatever somewhere else, so it must be easy to replicate, right?
It's not, as stated by others in this thread of course!
You sound like someone who would praise Sony for hiding cloud saves behind a paywall.