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His Dark Materials TV Series |OT| UK - BBC One, Sundays; RoW - HBO, Mondays [See spoiler guide in OP]
- Thread starter CeeCee
- Start date
Well, she is still a villain in the sense that she's willing to murder people (children) to achieve her goal, even if that goal is for the legitimate benefit of Humanity. Also, I was under the impression that it wasn't a false god, but that it was the god, but he had become old, senile and mad and was now redundant in the grand scheme of things. It has been some time since I read the books though so I could be remembering it incorrectly.
IIRC it wasn't the original God who had become old and decrepit, but an angel who had stepped up when God was too old to do the job any more? Or something like that. I recall them leaping on him when he tries to get away at the end and the three of them falling to their deaths, I think.
I may be misremembering though. Might give the summary on Wikipedia a once over.
That sounds about right, since the guy's name was Metaton and not "God" or whatever. I shall leave the finer details to be revealed by the show I think
Last episode of the season finally aired on the Beeb! It was very emotional with some powerful performances.
We're finally beyond what the movie put out, the sad bit after Lyra and Roger arrived on Asreal's doorstep.
Ruth Wilson continues to be the strongest actress there as Coulter, though we finally see James McAvoy's acting chops in full action during his impassioned plea for her to come with him, mere moments after killing Roger to open the gate. A touching moment as well for Lyra too, definitely Dafne Keen's strongest episode.
It's interesting that they've timed the "start" of Will's story to what would've been the end of the first book. I suppose it means we can jump straight into other world shenanigans, and with a bit more context for the viewers.
Overall I was immensely satisfied with the series. I always found the first book to be the setup for the rest of the trilogy, so I'm guessing the next season or so will continue to bring viewers higher and higher. Looking forward to next year!
Ruth Wilson continues to be the strongest actress there as Coulter, though we finally see James McAvoy's acting chops in full action during his impassioned plea for her to come with him, mere moments after killing Roger to open the gate. A touching moment as well for Lyra too, definitely Dafne Keen's strongest episode.
It's interesting that they've timed the "start" of Will's story to what would've been the end of the first book. I suppose it means we can jump straight into other world shenanigans, and with a bit more context for the viewers.
Overall I was immensely satisfied with the series. I always found the first book to be the setup for the rest of the trilogy, so I'm guessing the next season or so will continue to bring viewers higher and higher. Looking forward to next year!
Between this and GOT HBO needs to stop doing close up shots of people riding animals because it always looks like goofy trash.
Honestly didn't care for the series that much. It was OK. Just felt a bit dull despite the strong visuals (mostly) and cast.
Honestly didn't care for the series that much. It was OK. Just felt a bit dull despite the strong visuals (mostly) and cast.
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This is all prefaced with the fact that I read these books a long time ago and I was a child, but I genuinely can't remember how The Subtle Knife Started. The earliest I can remember is Will finding the tower with all the ghouls/ghasts hanging around. I also remember thinking "Why doesn't this book have anything to do with the first book" for quite some time.
How much of Will's story in this television series has been created for the series? I don't remember him being the son of anyone of note and thought he just randomly stumbled into a portal/window thing.
Also I think in terms of TV adaptation its quite hard to believe that there was a portal sitting in the middle of a park surrounded by houses that nobody came across prior to this, but whatever, I'll let it slide.
How much of Will's story in this television series has been created for the series? I don't remember him being the son of anyone of note and thought he just randomly stumbled into a portal/window thing.
Also I think in terms of TV adaptation its quite hard to believe that there was a portal sitting in the middle of a park surrounded by houses that nobody came across prior to this, but whatever, I'll let it slide.
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Also, very good final episode! Can't wait to see how they visualise some of the stuff to come in book two!
yeah "golden compass" is a compass as in a drawing compass. not a compass that detects magnetic north. this is the golden compass as it refers to (from the his dark materials wikipedia page)
Also thank you for posting this, as it was totally lost on me. Having seen this, I noticed some pretty cool imagery in this final episode!
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I read the French translation and it was better for my taste. Tho it's been a while and i should read it again
That's more on the BBC than HBO. Think HBO just put some money in/handling global distribution.
No, this is basically the beginning of Will's story. Subtle Knife begins with Will and his mom, his mom getting more paranoid over a few pages, then people sneaking into their home and Will accidentally kills one of them, which is why he runs off and finds the door to Cittagaze (the place with the ghasts). And he is the son of John Parry, who is Grumman in Lyra's world.
I have mixed feelings about this show. I haven't read the books or watched the movie so I only expected some armoured bear to appear at some point, I knew nothing else.
I watched the whole season and somehow I felt the same I felt when watching the Mortal Empires movie: kinda dull, too much stuff going on but somehow still bored me at moments, arcs going too fast to care about some characters, some nonsensical actions (you have an object that tells the truth, why are you not using it all the time?) and the world building seems all over the place.
The mixed part comes from me still wanting to watch more, somehow the mistery is keeping me hooked. I really hope it pays off in the next season because the finale added more questions than answers.
P.S.: worst parents ever.
I watched the whole season and somehow I felt the same I felt when watching the Mortal Empires movie: kinda dull, too much stuff going on but somehow still bored me at moments, arcs going too fast to care about some characters, some nonsensical actions (you have an object that tells the truth, why are you not using it all the time?) and the world building seems all over the place.
The mixed part comes from me still wanting to watch more, somehow the mistery is keeping me hooked. I really hope it pays off in the next season because the finale added more questions than answers.
P.S.: worst parents ever.
Alright, I've caught up with the show. Last episode tomorrow.
On the negative side, I agree that the character development isn't as good as it should be. It's lacking. I get that the CGI cost a lot and that affects Lyra and Pan's development, but that's not the only place where the issue lies.
It's also true that the editing is weird in this show. Some scenes don't flow into each other as well as they should. There was also that bit in an earlier episode where Lyra escaped from Coulter's condo; Lyra was going for the elevator, then turned around when she realized she had forgotten the alethiometer... and then we next see her going outside the window to escape Coulter, without shower Lyra seeing Coulter at the elevator. It's really weird.
Also, I'm still of the opinion that showing Will's first chapter of book two throughout the whole show was a mistake. That shit should have been the entire first episode of the second season. The opening of the second book in our universe was a really cool twist, and it's just a shame that it won't be realized in the show. And it's not just for the sake of the twist; I don't get what the show gains from showing Will this soon. Only so little happens to him and his mom; their scenes are just hurting the pacing. The first season, just like the first book, should have been all about Lyra vs Coulter. We've already established that the show is having an issue in the character development part; keeping Will and other villain guy for the second season would have helped matters.
That said, I like the show. Wilson and McAvoy are great, and the production values overall are pretty high. I have to say that the last scene of the episode, they really, really fucking nailed Asriel's reaction to seeing Roger. Christ, I think it's even better than in the book lol. McAvoy looked like he was salivating.
Can't wait for the last episode tomorrow.
edit: I also agree that Manuel-Miranda is miscast. They should have gotten Sam Elliot back; I don't care that "he was already in the movie". That was some god-tier casting that the movie did and the show should have stuck to it because there was simply no topping it ever.
On the negative side, I agree that the character development isn't as good as it should be. It's lacking. I get that the CGI cost a lot and that affects Lyra and Pan's development, but that's not the only place where the issue lies.
It's also true that the editing is weird in this show. Some scenes don't flow into each other as well as they should. There was also that bit in an earlier episode where Lyra escaped from Coulter's condo; Lyra was going for the elevator, then turned around when she realized she had forgotten the alethiometer... and then we next see her going outside the window to escape Coulter, without shower Lyra seeing Coulter at the elevator. It's really weird.
Also, I'm still of the opinion that showing Will's first chapter of book two throughout the whole show was a mistake. That shit should have been the entire first episode of the second season. The opening of the second book in our universe was a really cool twist, and it's just a shame that it won't be realized in the show. And it's not just for the sake of the twist; I don't get what the show gains from showing Will this soon. Only so little happens to him and his mom; their scenes are just hurting the pacing. The first season, just like the first book, should have been all about Lyra vs Coulter. We've already established that the show is having an issue in the character development part; keeping Will and other villain guy for the second season would have helped matters.
That said, I like the show. Wilson and McAvoy are great, and the production values overall are pretty high. I have to say that the last scene of the episode, they really, really fucking nailed Asriel's reaction to seeing Roger. Christ, I think it's even better than in the book lol. McAvoy looked like he was salivating.
Can't wait for the last episode tomorrow.
edit: I also agree that Manuel-Miranda is miscast. They should have gotten Sam Elliot back; I don't care that "he was already in the movie". That was some god-tier casting that the movie did and the show should have stuck to it because there was simply no topping it ever.
The mystery does not pay off. This story goes to completely ridiculous (and not in the good way) places.
Very strong finale. Slowed down the pace for more character interaction, and felt a lot more weighty and emotional as a result. I assumed as soon as they started showing Will's story earlier that the season would end with both crossing worlds at the same time, no surprise there. It gets pretty crazy from here on out so looking forward to the return.
Was getting big time death flags from the end of last episode and bummed to see that Lyra wasn't able to save Roger in time which is obviously the intended effect (I liked the kid actor they got to play him and thought he did a good job).
Loved, loved, loved the finale. Geeking out that they did pretty much exactly what I was hoping they would do:
enjoyed it, but wish lyra wasnt so timid and had to have so many ideas given to her by adults. honestly dont think lee is necessarily miscast just badly written in this. kinda disappointed at no mary showing up too.
I thought that was the strongest episode of the season. Lots of strongly acted conversation scenes and beautiful lighting.
Happy with the season overall except that everything with Will could have been held over to Season 2 (although I did like the visual symmetry of Lyra and Will both stepping through portals at the end). They could have revealed Boreal in the other world as a finale twist and started the next season with him tracking down Will.
Happy with the season overall except that everything with Will could have been held over to Season 2 (although I did like the visual symmetry of Lyra and Will both stepping through portals at the end). They could have revealed Boreal in the other world as a finale twist and started the next season with him tracking down Will.
The last episode was wonderful. They finally gave the scenes some time to breath. As a book reader who knew what was coming, the last look between Lyra and Roger through the cage wires hit me hard. I liked the talk about original sin and the beautiful visuals, Lyra going through the portal with little Pan looking around in her arms was beautiful. This was the first episode I thought was actually good, everything that came before was very disappointing to me.
The cast is mostly great, Ruth Wilson in particular is amazing. In fact I think the main three (Lyra, Coulter, Asriel) are all better than in the film. Serafina and Scoresby were much, much better in the film, though.
Still, I wish this had been a HBO production instead. The BBC is clearly struggling with budget, and even more afraid of showing violence than the film. This hurts both the story and the spectacle. Disappearing and non-existent daemons, no interaction between them and their humans, and the poor excuses for battle scenes are pretty disappointing. The scripts aren't exactly great either. Characters just deliver expositions dumps, the back and forth with Will's scenes was jarring (his story should have been the entire episode of season 2), and the editing and directing before episode 8 was just off. It feels weirdly like a stage production at times. I don't understand how they expect to adapt book three if they're already struggling so hard with budget with the first one, which requires the least budget and effects out of the three.
I hope season 2 will be more like episode 8 than 1-7. And seeing how powerful the ending can be on screen, I'd love to see the original cut of the film with the ending and all the scenes they cut included. It's probably never going to happen, though.
The cast is mostly great, Ruth Wilson in particular is amazing. In fact I think the main three (Lyra, Coulter, Asriel) are all better than in the film. Serafina and Scoresby were much, much better in the film, though.
Still, I wish this had been a HBO production instead. The BBC is clearly struggling with budget, and even more afraid of showing violence than the film. This hurts both the story and the spectacle. Disappearing and non-existent daemons, no interaction between them and their humans, and the poor excuses for battle scenes are pretty disappointing. The scripts aren't exactly great either. Characters just deliver expositions dumps, the back and forth with Will's scenes was jarring (his story should have been the entire episode of season 2), and the editing and directing before episode 8 was just off. It feels weirdly like a stage production at times. I don't understand how they expect to adapt book three if they're already struggling so hard with budget with the first one, which requires the least budget and effects out of the three.
I hope season 2 will be more like episode 8 than 1-7. And seeing how powerful the ending can be on screen, I'd love to see the original cut of the film with the ending and all the scenes they cut included. It's probably never going to happen, though.
I really enjoyed it, but I really do feel like they have totally missed all ofnthe important details about the daemons.
The show just treats them as fluffy companions that are magically tied to you, it never/Barely touched on them being a physical manifestation of your soul.
The taboo about never touching someone else's daemon. Never mentioned. Even when evil characters frequently do it, which makes them seem even more evil because of how wrong it is in the world.
Seeing Mrs Coulter's Daemon able to be separated from her is mentioned, but barely portrayed as anything beyond a little unusual. This in itself would have been be very unsettling.
The areas where they really missed a trick was with the kids in the facility. To see a human without a demon is an unspeakably disturbing , supernatural and upsetting concept. Something that is considered so implausible and horrifying , that just the sight of these children or the signs that this was happening would have been traumatic.
The show just treats them as fluffy companions that are magically tied to you, it never/Barely touched on them being a physical manifestation of your soul.
The taboo about never touching someone else's daemon. Never mentioned. Even when evil characters frequently do it, which makes them seem even more evil because of how wrong it is in the world.
Seeing Mrs Coulter's Daemon able to be separated from her is mentioned, but barely portrayed as anything beyond a little unusual. This in itself would have been be very unsettling.
The areas where they really missed a trick was with the kids in the facility. To see a human without a demon is an unspeakably disturbing , supernatural and upsetting concept. Something that is considered so implausible and horrifying , that just the sight of these children or the signs that this was happening would have been traumatic.
Billy's Death wasn't treated as anything beyond a dead child, whereas the thought of a human without a soul/daemon is actually far more traumatic than the thought of death
Yeah, Daemons were handled poorly in my opinion.
They just didn't appear in the world enough to seem that important, and several scenes I was left wondering where the dameons were. They shouldn't have been afraid to use puppets for the Daemons if they couldn't afford to do CG for all scenes.
Maybe it was the voice they used, but I hated Pan. All his dialog just seemed to be nagging and complaining to Lyra.
They just didn't appear in the world enough to seem that important, and several scenes I was left wondering where the dameons were. They shouldn't have been afraid to use puppets for the Daemons if they couldn't afford to do CG for all scenes.
Maybe it was the voice they used, but I hated Pan. All his dialog just seemed to be nagging and complaining to Lyra.
Considering what GoT did with the direwolves, I really doubt being an HBO production would have helped the daemon situation in the slightest.
I loved the entire series, way more than I enjoyed the film. I agree there were times when I wondered where the daemons were and I guess to someone who hasn't read the books it underplayed their value. Still thought it was well made. Looking forward to season 2 then super looking forward to the complete outrage from the religious institutions when season 3 launched.
I still remember when da Vinci code launched and these stories are way way worse for Christianity than anything in the Da Vinci code. Proper meltdowns are incoming.
I still remember when da Vinci code launched and these stories are way way worse for Christianity than anything in the Da Vinci code. Proper meltdowns are incoming.
loved this series and i remember liking the books to, well i own them and i bought them after originally reading them so must of liked them. I even quite liked the golden compass movie and that had one thing the series didnt, a polar bear punching anothers jaw off.
Just as a side ive just started reading la belle sauvage, liking it so far but didnt know it was a prequel when i bought it.
Just as a side ive just started reading la belle sauvage, liking it so far but didnt know it was a prequel when i bought it.
Ugh I forgot this was on yesterday because my mind being occupied with holiday stuff!
I have a regular HBO sub through my cable. What are my options for watching this on demand there? Otherwise I see it airing again Thursday morning which, while not ideal, at least guarantees me a way to watch it.
I have a regular HBO sub through my cable. What are my options for watching this on demand there? Otherwise I see it airing again Thursday morning which, while not ideal, at least guarantees me a way to watch it.
Not having read the books in 15 years (and not remembering the movie at all), I quite enjoyed this first season. Are the more recent books Pullman wrote in the series worth checking out?
Overall found the series a disappointment, as I expected to like the show much more than I did. Some solid performances, but the execution of the story and writing never really grabbed me. It seems like they were playing at big stakes, but we never really got a sense of the world, why Azrael was rebelling so hard against it, what exactly the snake guy was doing, etc. The allusions to what Dust were and some higher authority besides the Magesterium weren't enough to hook me.
Ms. Coulter had the best daemon though.
Ms. Coulter had the best daemon though.
I think the hopes were dashed from the start because season 2 will be based on book 2.
You only need to say "I don't like the books" once.
Finished! I really enjoyed this adaptation. Other people have pointed out some flaws in it--and it's not perfect--but it does a good job with what it has, and the actors deliver some amazing performances. My family who have never read the books also quite liked it, and my dad isn't typically into this kind of fantasy stuff.
Just finished episode 8 (been stuck at my parents for Christmas for too long, clearly... lol) and like others I thought it was the best episode of the season. Overall as a book reader I think season 1 was decent enough but I think it suffered from bad pacing due to bad writing. Even in episode 8, which I enjoyed, I thought the writing was really poor in the scene where the Magisterium was attacking the bears from their airships, then Iorek takes Lyra off to the mountain. When they get there, there's seemingly no desire by Iorek to return to the battle; he basically just abandons the rest of his bears. The bad writing ends (I am 99% sure that battle doesn't happen in the book, Iorek just takes Lyra straight to the bridge he can't cross) makes the pacing seem really off because you're not really sure just how urgent things are - they did just scape a battle where clearly things seemed urgent, but now Iorek doesn't seem to care to rush back. As a viewer, you're left wondering if the battle is even still going on. I also thought Will's storyline was just plain boringly written as they tried to make it much bigger than it should have been at this point.
Also, I know I criticized her earlier in the thread, but Ruth Wilson did grow on me. Still don't love her in that role but I also struggle to think of who they could have (realistically) cast who would have been better. Lin-Manuel Miranda was horribly miscast, but everyone else was fine (even Asriel grew on me; he was great in episode 8).
Looking forward to season 2, which I think will be fine based on CGI/budget concerns. Having just finished rereading book 2,
That said, season 3 will really, really need an upgrade in the CGI budget..
Also, I know I criticized her earlier in the thread, but Ruth Wilson did grow on me. Still don't love her in that role but I also struggle to think of who they could have (realistically) cast who would have been better. Lin-Manuel Miranda was horribly miscast, but everyone else was fine (even Asriel grew on me; he was great in episode 8).
Looking forward to season 2, which I think will be fine based on CGI/budget concerns. Having just finished rereading book 2,
so much of book 2 happens in either Will's world (besides chapter 1, which is of course irrelevant for season 2 purposes) or Cittagazze, where there are no daemons, so hopefully the lack of daemons won't really be an issue. Extremely curious to see their take on Cittzgazze generally, and the tower. They will of course still need plenty of CGI at times, but I don't think it will be as much of an issue. I mean, no one was really complaining about the lack of CGI in any of Will's scenes, for example.
Yes.
It's the name for the original angel who is effectively their version of god. I forget if they use the term in the first book (or at least I'm pretty sure they don't explicitly explain who he is) but he's in the second and third pretty heavily.
Just finished and I'm really lost. I just figured the fantasy people lived in the same world as the random people using cell phones. But apparently this is a two reality thing and they're swapping for the next season / book
I also don't understand what happened with Roger at all. Looked like he was pulling down a guillotine between them in the cage but it wasn't hitting the kid or the daemon. And why need that when you could easily kill a daemon as previously shown? And why did this particular one open a portal?
I also don't understand what happened with Roger at all. Looked like he was pulling down a guillotine between them in the cage but it wasn't hitting the kid or the daemon. And why need that when you could easily kill a daemon as previously shown? And why did this particular one open a portal?
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Yeah kinda same here. Also completely missed where MAM's character went.
You couldn't tell the differences in worlds the entire season or the talk of different worlds?
Think back to the episode where they were splitting kids form their daemoins. That is what happened to Roger. Asriel didn't want to kill Roger really. He just wanted the energy (dust?) from splitting a human and their dameon. It opened a portal b/c in the north the distance between worlds is thin according to the witches. It opened a portal b/c that's what Asriel has been trying to do for years.
I probably couldn't tell the difference because I was so bored and wasn't following it very closely. Randomly a phone would show up and I thought they were just a different part of the world going on at the same time.
The splitting didn't make sense. Putting a piece of metal between them splits them?
I mean there's your answer. You just missed the story cause your werent paying attention. Why even continue if the show bores you? We live in a golden age of TV why waste that time on something you are barely watching?
It's obviously more than just a piece of metal, they show blueprints for the machine several times, it's a complex contraption and the guillotine is just part of it.