The Walker stuff kind of gets pushed under the rug because of his death.
and im sure your social life compares to a person who's instantly recognized by millions of people.
He did a set recently. The crowd seemed to like him.Whatever happened with that whole Azis Ansari thing anyways? Seems we never got any follow up on that IIRC.
I don't see any other celebrities expressing concern over being called a rapist for approaching women. Or being upset over "no means no".and im sure your social life compares to a person who's instantly recognized by millions of people.
Yeah, reading that whole thing, it doesn't seem so bad ... he's just saying that in the past women would often play hard to get, play cat and mouse, etc and now, once they say no, you just have to stop. As social expectations change, there is some confusion ... that's to be expected. And, anyone here trying to argue that a lot of women don't play hard to get is just being disingenuous. I've had girlfriends complain to me that a guy just dropped her because she didn't want to seem too interested too fast. Men's roles are changing, and they should -- but there is social confusion when that happens for both sides. He just didn't communicate it well -- but, I don't see anything to be upset about.
This is what people don't want to discuss. They don't want to try to see things from a perspective of a woman that might play hard to get and try to understand WHY. For many women it's deeply upsetting when they put themselves out there and after a man has had sex with them, he disappears and only reappears when he wants sex again. This is the whole genesis of the "cat and mouse" type thing that Cavill and other men have expressed. There ARE women who do this and they have a REASON for doing it. Its disingenuous to rob women of their agency and assume that they don't send a signal to a man that is intentionally difficult to understand for the purpose of protecting herself. I'm not saying it's the way things should be or that it's right to do that, just giving more context to this thing that DOES happen regardless of how many people want to act like it doesn't.Yeah, reading that whole thing, it doesn't seem so bad ... he's just saying that in the past women would often play hard to get, play cat and mouse, etc and now, once they say no, you just have to stop. As social expectations change, there is some confusion ... that's to be expected. And, anyone here trying to argue that a lot of women don't play hard to get is just being disingenuous. I've had girlfriends complain to me that a guy just dropped her because she didn't want to seem too interested too fast. Men's roles are changing, and they should -- but there is social confusion when that happens for both sides. He just didn't communicate it well -- but, I don't see anything to be upset about.
And what am I supposed to be helping again?
Well...... that's... disturbing. *checks wiki* yeah um.... he would've been like, 33 at the time..... yikes.
The mental gymnastics in this post are truly a sight to behold.This is what people don't want to discuss. They don't want to try to see things from a perspective of a woman that might play hard to get and try to understand WHY. For many women it's deeply upsetting when they put themselves out there and after a man has had sex with them, he disappears and only reappears when he wants sex again. This is the whole genesis of the "cat and mouse" type thing that Cavill and other men have expressed. There ARE women who do this and they have a REASON for doing it. Its disingenuous to rob women of their agency and assume that they don't send a signal to a man that is intentionally difficult to understand for the purpose of protecting herself. I'm not saying it's the way things should be or that it's right to do that, just giving more context to this thing that DOES happen regardless of how many people want to act like it doesn't.
The rationale being that if the man is able to expend his time and energy into convincing her that he's worth a chance, then he is a good man. The idea is that if he tries to convince her that he's a good man even after she initially said "I'm not sure I want to date right now" or something similar, she'll recognize that he's serious and not just using her.
There's too much dichotomous thinking and a stubborn unwillingness to even consider that A. Some people do certain things and B. They do it for reasons that make sense to them.
The common thread with these men is "things are different from what I used to experience and see" and it's obviously not a rational reaction to assume that every woman you interact with sees you as a potential predator and thus you should avoid them. But it is important to understand that people are complex and often say things that contradict or don't make sense to us. This moment may lead to more earnest communication between men and women.
For the men saying "that's bullshit women should be able to just express sexual interest and not worry about seeming too easy!" There are men who use those exact words to pressure women into sex. I've actually met a woman who told me that she was speaking to a man who tried to convince her that she should send nudes because "I'm a feminist and would not body shame you." And tried to convince her that it is an act of resistance to patriarchal norms if she had sex with him on the first date. People are far more complicated than people here seem to think.
This is what people don't want to discuss. They don't want to try to see things from a perspective of a woman that might play hard to get and try to understand WHY. For many women it's deeply upsetting when they put themselves out there and after a man has had sex with them, he disappears and only reappears when he wants sex again. This is the whole genesis of the "cat and mouse" type thing that Cavill and other men have expressed. There ARE women who do this and they have a REASON for doing it. Its disingenuous to rob women of their agency and assume that they don't send a signal to a man that is intentionally difficult to understand for the purpose of protecting herself. I'm not saying it's the way things should be or that it's right to do that, just giving more context to this thing that DOES happen regardless of how many people want to act like it doesn't.
The rationale being that if the man is able to expend his time and energy into convincing her that he's worth a chance, then he is a good man. The idea is that if he tries to convince her that he's a good man even after she initially said "I'm not sure I want to date right now" or something similar, she'll recognize that he's serious and not just using her.
There's too much dichotomous thinking and a stubborn unwillingness to even consider that A. Some people do certain things and B. They do it for reasons that make sense to them.
The common thread with these men is "things are different from what I used to experience and see" and it's obviously not a rational reaction to assume that every woman you interact with sees you as a potential predator and thus you should avoid them. But it is important to understand that people are complex and often say things that contradict or don't make sense to us. This moment may lead to more earnest communication between men and women.
For the men saying "that's bullshit women should be able to just express sexual interest and not worry about seeming too easy!" There are men who use those exact words to pressure women into sex. I've actually met a woman who told me that she was speaking to a man who tried to convince her that she should send nudes because "I'm a feminist and would not body shame you." And tried to convince her that it is an act of resistance to patriarchal norms if she had sex with him on the first date. People are far more complicated than people here seem to think.
Things are changing and for some people they just aren't as quick on the uptake
I mean it's pretty easy to just accuse me of mental gymnastics(to what end?) Or you can tell me why you disagree with me. Its up to you. My goal is to understand and explain that things aren't as cut and dry as people think and that it's important to try and understand people. Like I said in the post, I don't agree with his overreaction or his choice of words, but I can understand where he and a lot of other men are coming from as well as women who find themselves in certain situations.The mental gymnastics in this post are truly a sight to behold.
Those are still bs. Even if someone consents to sex, they don't consent to every act out the gate.Aren't signed consent forms beforehand the norm for celebrities/musicians to begin with btw?
I did. Thank you for concern though
That's ridiculous if true, and consent can be retroactively revoked anyway.Aren't signed consent forms beforehand the norm for celebrities/musicians to begin with btw?
Par for the course in these threads unfortunatelyWhat a stupid statement. And as usual. People rush in to play the "Oh you know he kinda has a point" shit, then when pressed for examples of it ever happening, they just vanish from the thread.
True true. And they can still change their mind midway.Those are still bs. Even if someone consents to sex, they don't consent to every act out the gate.
Definitely a thing among musicians and their more eager fans. But yea, it's pretty pointless once you think about it.That's ridiculous if true, and consent can be retroactively revoked anyway.
Implying Bieber didn't have a whole section dedicated to what she's willing to doThose are still bs. Even if someone consents to sex, they don't consent to every act out the gate.
Not really, at will employment ... it's terrible on employees. It's scary how tenuous employment is in the US. One person saying something about you without proof, and you're done.
Aren't signed consent forms beforehand the norm for celebrities/musicians to begin with btw?
Dude talks like he was born in the 40's...He was doing alright until the last part, then he went off about things getting too PC, basically, and how he misses the old ways.
You can have expressions of commitment without having to tempt men to cross boundaries of consent. That's kind of what dating is all about, really, it's about building a relationship with someone you like and find interesting through mutually assented social engagements/performances. The cat and mouse thing may have served well in an era where women were considered inferior (more than now, anyway), and thus didn't have the permission from society to arrange dates or set boundaries, but it doesn't really work that way anymore. If you want to test a man's committment, I can think of quite a few date ideas that fit that criteria.This is what people don't want to discuss. They don't want to try to see things from a perspective of a woman that might play hard to get and try to understand WHY. For many women it's deeply upsetting when they put themselves out there and after a man has had sex with them, he disappears and only reappears when he wants sex again. This is the whole genesis of the "cat and mouse" type thing that Cavill and other men have expressed. There ARE women who do this and they have a REASON for doing it. Its disingenuous to rob women of their agency and assume that they don't send a signal to a man that is intentionally difficult to understand for the purpose of protecting herself. I'm not saying it's the way things should be or that it's right to do that, just giving more context to this thing that DOES happen regardless of how many people want to act like it doesn't.
The rationale being that if the man is able to expend his time and energy into convincing her that he's worth a chance, then he is a good man. The idea is that if he tries to convince her that he's a good man even after she initially said "I'm not sure I want to date right now" or something similar, she'll recognize that he's serious and not just using her.
There's too much dichotomous thinking and a stubborn unwillingness to even consider that A. Some people do certain things and B. They do it for reasons that make sense to them.
The common thread with these men is "things are different from what I used to experience and see" and it's obviously not a rational reaction to assume that every woman you interact with sees you as a potential predator and thus you should avoid them. But it is important to understand that people are complex and often say things that contradict or don't make sense to us. This moment may lead to more earnest communication between men and women.
For the men saying "that's bullshit women should be able to just express sexual interest and not worry about seeming too easy!" There are men who use those exact words to pressure women into sex. I've actually met a woman who told me that she was speaking to a man who tried to convince her that she should send nudes because "I'm a feminist and would not body shame you." And tried to convince her that it is an act of resistance to patriarchal norms if she had sex with him on the first date. People are far more complicated than people here seem to think.
Things are changing and for some people they just aren't as quick on the uptake
Legit why would you want to be with someone that goes "well I didn't really mean no."
I agree. It is an easy choice, especially when you look like cavill which makes his statement even more ridiculous. I would say though, there's no way to know if someone is ACTUALLY interested especially when you're famous because they may say yes but only because they feel pressure to not have to explain why they rejected a famous and powerful individual or be mocked for doing so. There is inherently a power imbalance when you're famous and you can never be sure if someone is actually okay with you or if they're just overwhelmed by what the response by their social group or media might be if they had said no to you.Your options are:
1) Accept no means no, potentially leaving a women single if she was actually playing hard to get
2) Don't accept no means no, potentially sexually assaulting or harassing a woman who did not in fact want your dick
It's a pretty easy choice to me!
Couldn't you have sued the woman who accused you for slander/wrongful accusations and tried to tell your employer what kind of person they are still employing?Not really, at will employment ... it's terrible on employees. It's scary how tenuous employment is in the US. One person saying something about you without proof, and you're done.
Definitely. I've heard musicians/DJs talk about it in person but have not seen one of these forms for myself personally.If I'm not mistaken I think some of them might be NDA/gag orders too
Your options are:
1) Accept no means no, potentially leaving a women single if she was actually playing hard to get
2) Don't accept no means no, potentially sexually assaulting or harassing a woman who did not in fact want your dick
It's a pretty easy choice to me!
I ask Cavill what he's learned from the #MeToo moment we're in.
"I've been fortunate enough to not be around the kind of people who behave that way," he says. "To my memory there's been no moments where I look back and think, 'Ooh, OK, maybe someone shouldn't have gone through that'. I know there have been situations with people I've worked with being perhaps overfamiliar with some of the actresses. But, I've always walked up to them and said, 'Hey, are you all right? That's creepy'."
Have the revelations made you reflect on your own behaviour with women? "I like to think that I've never been like that. I think any human being alive today, if someone casts too harsh a light on anything, you could be like, 'Well, OK, yeah, when you say it like that, maybe.'
"But it's such a delicate and careful thing to say because there's flirting which, for example, in a social environment is in context – and is acceptable. And that has been done to me as well, in return."
"Stuff has to change, absolutely," he adds, addressing men's behaviour. "It's important to also retain the good things, which were a quality of the past, and get rid of the bad things
Some people just like the thrill of the chase? Isn't it kind of sad in a way that it only boils down to two choices?
Did people actually read the article because that snip seems abit cherry picked.
I don't know how anyone can read this in a negative his very open with out he sees the Metoo movement and seems like a great supporter of it . But his very self aware of what can go wrong if his signals are interpreted the wrong way so he keeps his distance. For someone of his fame that's a responsible thing to do.
I completely agree, I'm saying that more people than people here seem to think may actually have trouble doing that. I had a partner who dated me for 2 months and we weren't sexually intimate. I respected her boundaries, but on the third month she just broke up with me randomly. I couldn't understand what had happened or why. Sometimes people do things that just don't make sense to us until we try to see things from their perspective. Its much harder than we as men could ever imagine to be a woman navigating the dating scene. Men and women can be exceedingly cruel to women who are perceived to have a "reputation" and that "reputation" attracts men who are vicious predators.You can have expressions of commitment without having to tempt men to cross boundaries of consent. That's kind of what dating is all about, really, it's about building a relationship with someone you like and find interesting through mutually assented social engagements/performances. The cat and mouse thing may have served well in an era where women were considered inferior (more than now, anyway), and thus didn't have the permission from society to arrange dates or set boundaries, but it doesn't really work that way anymore. If you want to test a man's committment, I can think of quite a few date ideas that fit that criteria.
... I posted the full thing earlier as well. Cavill is not a bad guy here. Dude had some word soup, but you can tell he meant well with all the other stuff he said before that. To crucify him over this is mind boggling. He hasn't done anything wrong.Wow thanks for posting to this. So basically we made a story out of/hated on someone taking quotes out of context. What are we ESPN now?
What he said is still problematic no matter if the earlier stuff wasn't.... I posted the full thing earlier as well. Cavill is not a bad guy here. Dude had some word soup, but you can tell he meant well with all the other stuff he said before that. To crucify him over this is mind boggling. He hasn't done anything wrong.