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Guardian: Majority of Europeans fear Biden unable to fix 'broken' US
- Thread starter SilentPanda
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Get back to me after the conservative supreme court looks at that bill if it gets passed. The damage of McConnel packing the courts the last four years is only just beginning.
Also politically it's not going to happen because they barely are able to get any true allies or build any strong coalitions. All of their neighbors are trying to contain them vs. working with them.
Soft power / culturally they are getting stronger due to the size of their media/entertainment market and foreign companies not wanting to upset their citizens. But the US companies still control most of the worlds social media and we see recently what political and cultural power that exerts, whereas China's companies tend to be too inward facing for that, other than Tiktok.
China's authoritarian and restrictive government which, to its credit, has been effective in bringing economic power for the country is literally holding them back from getting any other types of powers and basically stopping them from being #1.
The US certainly has a lot of work to do and it's understandable the rest of the world sees it as such. I'm personally optimistic about the next 4 years.
Talk about sweeping generalizations. What's with the holier-than-thou attitudes? Makes it hard to have productive discussion, honestly.
Mate, you waltz in to a topic about Europeans look on the US (which has considerable geopolitical power which very much hurts us) with a meme about not asking us about our opinions and then others have an attitude?
Point is, we shouldn't see the Europeans as any help when it comes to confronting the Chinese on a myriad of issues. The Europeans are useless.
Please tell me more about how in Europe they teach us on hating the US from a young age.
I will be here, waiting for receipts.
Because the "Americans" instead (using your own language) have been a great and reliable partner in the last few years eh.
The US certainly has a lot of work to do and it's understandable the rest of the world sees it as such. I'm personally optimistic about the next 4 years.
Talk about sweeping generalizations. What's with the holier-than-thou attitudes? Makes it hard to have productive discussion, honestly.
Agree 100%. This doomposting shit here has been obnoxious, from those saying that Biden would lose, Trump would steal the election, Dems would lose the Georgia runoffs, etc.
The courts have really did a good job in their rulings supporting the Trump admin, right? /s. Yes, the GOP packing the courts sucks, but the Supreme Court has shown that they have their own agenda and do not always rule on partisan lines.
I wouldn't trust us as a partner either. It's clear that our checks and balances aren't enough to keep continuity of international agreements.
Maybe I am not understanding the use of the gif, but are you saying that Europeans should not have opinions or share opinions about the US situation?
The US certainly has a lot of work to do and it's understandable the rest of the world sees it as such. I'm personally optimistic about the next 4 years.
Talk about sweeping generalizations. What's with the holier-than-thou attitudes? Makes it hard to have productive discussion, honestly.
Kindly step out of the way of the people who will put in the effort while you doompost.
Is fear really the right word? I, for one, welcome our new multipolar world.
Trump undermining America's image worldwide and thereby hurting American hegemony is one of the few positives to his presidency. That and the possible damage he may have done to the Republican Party.
Trump undermining America's image worldwide and thereby hurting American hegemony is one of the few positives to his presidency. That and the possible damage he may have done to the Republican Party.
I don't speak about that far in the past but a major theme of the French Fifth Republic was (and is still) being not fully aligned with the US: de Gaulle left the OTAN, Chirac was against the second Irak war, etc.
To badly summarising it, France's relationship with the USA is more a love-hate relationship than a 'Please notice me senpai' relationship: we will be the US oldest ally one day, and the next day, someone (even from the government) will use the US as a boogeyman in an argument (and like I said before, I'm only speaking about France here, I don't know enough about of how those other countries view themselves and their own relationship with the USA).
It's rarely used in French media and most of the time, when they spoke about it, they explain that it used as way to mock France (today it's more a friendly mockery 🙂 but it wasn't always like that).
Looking far in the past of our countries, it's a miracle they were able (with the help of other countries of course, like the other 4 founding members: Italy, Belgium, Luxembourg and the Netherlands 🙂) to build something like the EU after killing so much of the each other citizens during multiples wars.
At the same time, I think Germany is still taking the Second World War into account in a lot of what it's doing today … so, maybe Germans know a thing or two about voting in a fascist. (as an example, I don't think France would have the most powerful army in the EU if Germany was not thinking about WW2).
All depends on the reforms Biden puts in, and unfortunately it's not a priority with all the other fucking fires happening.
The US will be a very reliable partner once they get voter disenfranchisement, gerrymandering, more black and white guardrails for presidential power, and something done about 'citizens united' which makes the US even more blatantly a corporatocracy.
Until then, you've got a opposition party focused on a good day...being cruel to the poor and focused strictly on nationwide disenfranchisement...and on a bad day actively trying to destroy the United States.
But, like I said, I don't know if he's got the juice or the time to wage war with so many pressing domestic matters
The US will be a very reliable partner once they get voter disenfranchisement, gerrymandering, more black and white guardrails for presidential power, and something done about 'citizens united' which makes the US even more blatantly a corporatocracy.
Until then, you've got a opposition party focused on a good day...being cruel to the poor and focused strictly on nationwide disenfranchisement...and on a bad day actively trying to destroy the United States.
But, like I said, I don't know if he's got the juice or the time to wage war with so many pressing domestic matters
This isn't about the Trump admin. Are you denying reality? Have you seen some of the rulings SCOTUS has made over the past, say, 2 decades? Do you know what they did to voting rights less than a decade ago? And now it's more extreme right-wing than ever at 6-3 with at least one legitimate lunatic. You aren't living in reality if don't you think the GOP are going to utilize this. The GOP stacked courts/SCOTUS are going to me a major hurdle for progressive legislation over the next generation.
What effort are people putting in here? It's a fucking internet discussion forum, not Capitol Hill. And enough of the "doom posting" shit, naive optimism about one election going well and fixing decades/centuries of problems is what's really dangerous. Again - 2008.
Why?
When Germany voted a fascist in it only got freed from it by outside forces and most fascist were imprisoned and/or hanged. The US didn't get rid of their fascists, they are still there and in popular and/or powerful positions.
Why should we now trust the US again? There is no political will to get rid of fascism and white supremacy in the US. On the contrary, the old mantra of "We must heal and forgive" that worked sooooooo well after the Civil war, is getting parroted again.
HUH?
So 2010-2016 doesn't count? Those years were immeasurably destructive. But yeah, thanks for proving the whole "pendulum keeps swinging back and forth" argument for me.
What kind of receipts are you looking for? Peer reviewed scientific study?
You really haven't been paying attention to Biden's announced policy and picks for his administration if you're tossing out this tired hot take.
Bernie is becoming chair if the Senate budget committee. Read up on why that's significant.
Also, Biden has clearly shown he's willing to listen to the more progressive side of the party.
Is a multipolar world really that positive though? The worst wars in history have all been fought because there were multiple competing powers of roughly equal powers.
The international angle is fairly straightforward from where I'm looking. Of course people are distrustful towards the US after Trump ran away from several international agreements. And the problem isn't even Trump specifically, sure we're happy to see him go, don't get me wrong there, but on the matter of American trustworthiness, it can be boiled down to a simple question:
"Is there any guarantee that an agreement made with the US still be honored in four years and two days?"
Since, apparently, a President can just cancel whatever they want, the answer to that question is no. You can't make a five year deal with the US and be sure it'll be honored no matter who's in the White House anymore.
"Is there any guarantee that an agreement made with the US still be honored in four years and two days?"
Since, apparently, a President can just cancel whatever they want, the answer to that question is no. You can't make a five year deal with the US and be sure it'll be honored no matter who's in the White House anymore.
European skepticism and disillusionment is clear from the surveys in the OP. We shouldn't be looking to the Europeans as reliable allies as well.
We can't be an example for others with our constant yo-yoing. We have to turn things around for the long haul this time. Nobody should blame Europe for how they feel about us. (Slightly more than) Half of America is right there beside them in frustration.
America, we got this in the bag if we can continue to mobilize people to vote, particularly those who are disenfranchised or being voter suppressed. The numbers are on our side.
America, we got this in the bag if we can continue to mobilize people to vote, particularly those who are disenfranchised or being voter suppressed. The numbers are on our side.
The horse has bolted on trusting America to not elect anyone as laughably unqualified and dangerously deranged as Donald Trump.
Much like us in the UK proving we can have a mature outlook on rejoining the union, truly moving on from Trump - or what's left behind via what he stood for and what this 4 years has let out of the box - may be a multi-decade process.
Much like us in the UK proving we can have a mature outlook on rejoining the union, truly moving on from Trump - or what's left behind via what he stood for and what this 4 years has let out of the box - may be a multi-decade process.
I don't think the relationship is forever broken but it's going to take a while to build trust again. If Biden's successor also has an interstest in building international cooperation, i'm optimistic.
That said, the days of the US as the sole major super power seems over regardless of it's relationship with the EU. It has lost significant influence, for one, the deals and treaties established in the last 4 years, especiall in the pacific, will limit it's leverage. But also, whatever moral high ground, even if only in appearence, it used to be able to project, is gone.
That said, the days of the US as the sole major super power seems over regardless of it's relationship with the EU. It has lost significant influence, for one, the deals and treaties established in the last 4 years, especiall in the pacific, will limit it's leverage. But also, whatever moral high ground, even if only in appearence, it used to be able to project, is gone.
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Lots of people donated their time and money here.
And you're not just trashing the people on this forum, but everyone who fought hard for wins in places like Georgia and Arizona where the margins were tight and we barely scrapped together a working coalition, which will have a big impact on what happens in the next few years.
I am so, so tired of takes that make Bernie out to be some savior.
Read up on the US government. Congress is hugely important, and Bernie is becoming chair of the Senate budget committee. This alone is considered a nightmare scenario for Republicans.
He and Biden are friends, anyway.
Would require congress ratification for big stuff, and even then another president could try to executive order out. Now congress would need to challenge this, which would make it go to the supreme court to finally lay out congressional and presidential powers in these instances. The closest was with Carter and Taiwan, but Congress didn't really push. And tried to get the supreme court to deal with it instead of them.
Now if it's just executive orders. Those afaik can just be overturned by new presidents. Which would make more sense long term to go the congress route, but that takes time and divided congress makes it harder.
It's not a doompost, it's how I view America as an European.
And trust me I really hope I'm wrong and can be fixed, but there's so much to do, and some of it I'm not sure the two current parties are going to want to fix it. At the end, fixing everything Trump broke is just a small step of all the changes America needs IMO.
Sorry but the US has broken so many multilateral agreements in the last 4 years, from climate change to peacekeeping efforts, imposing tarifs on goods etc.
that anything but disillusionment seems silly. And consider that the US hast treated Europe well compared to other allies in Asia, the middle east or Africa.
Whatever the foreign policy focus of Biden will be. I don't think there's any region aside from Taiwan and maybe Israel (unless the US suddenly cares about palestinians) that are waititing for the US with open arms.
Of course, relationships can be rebuilt. But building will need to be done. With the EU or whoever else.
I have 100% been paying attention to his cabinet picks. A lot of them are super safe establishment picks. Things like Merrick garland as AG is pretty disappointing even if it could be seen as a fuck you to McConnell. I think Biden will be a safe pair of hands but he isn't going to push a progressive agenda and is spending a lot of time and effort in reaching across the aisle. He's clearly an improvement but prepare for a disappointing 4 years
From a France perspective, yeah the US is in full decline and China is the more reliable partner going forward.
The decline of the US is something that was expected and I think it's been a talking point for a decade or so.
The rise of China is fully anticipated now.
On a more micro level, no one wants to live in the US outside of the most neoliberal of French people. Shit healthcare, shit food, shit environment, shit retirement.
You wouldn't believe the shit image the US currently have.
Most can't even believe that you guys elected a reality tv star, the most racists of us actually really like him and want more like him but after the insurrection they're in "I don't know her" mode.
I kinda wish the US would have a better image, it's insane the length I have to go through to get someone to consider visiting.
The decline of the US is something that was expected and I think it's been a talking point for a decade or so.
The rise of China is fully anticipated now.
On a more micro level, no one wants to live in the US outside of the most neoliberal of French people. Shit healthcare, shit food, shit environment, shit retirement.
You wouldn't believe the shit image the US currently have.
Most can't even believe that you guys elected a reality tv star, the most racists of us actually really like him and want more like him but after the insurrection they're in "I don't know her" mode.
I kinda wish the US would have a better image, it's insane the length I have to go through to get someone to consider visiting.
The only reason you want to "confront the Chinese" is to further your own economic wellbeing, so why the fuck should Europeans "band together" to prop up the newest flavour of America First when the Chinese are at least not fomenting refugee crises at Europe's doorstep a couple of times a decade?
This thread is exhibit A of American liberals expecting to be lauded for simply not being Republicans and instead becoming indignant at any attack from their left. None of us out here in the world voted for Joe Biden to escalate with China on our behalf.
Caveat: have not yet read the full study.
To me the two most interesting graphs posted on the first page are the "who do you choose in a conflict between the U.S. and China" and "who do you choose in a conflict between the U.S. and Russia" that I think underscores just what a loss it would be if the United States simply cedes hegemonic status to China/Russia. The various countries in the poll don't side with the U.S. in great numbers, but they side with Russia and China even less. For all of America's problems, and there are many, it's still seen as a better partner than the other countries most consider to be superpowers.
I'm not super aware of EU/European politics, so I don't know all the issues with the EU as a governing/regulatory power--I do know that there are people who blame the EU technocrats for Greece's financial woes, for example, but not much more than that (and to be honest I'm not sure if that view is a prevailing view or not). But all of this seems to point to a really obvious need for something like the EU, even if it's not specifically the EU itself. Most of Europe seems to understand that a fate balanced between the whims of a fickle America and the autocratic leanings of Russia and China is no kind of fate at all, and that the way out is to maintain its own source of economic and sociopolitical power.
To me the two most interesting graphs posted on the first page are the "who do you choose in a conflict between the U.S. and China" and "who do you choose in a conflict between the U.S. and Russia" that I think underscores just what a loss it would be if the United States simply cedes hegemonic status to China/Russia. The various countries in the poll don't side with the U.S. in great numbers, but they side with Russia and China even less. For all of America's problems, and there are many, it's still seen as a better partner than the other countries most consider to be superpowers.
I'm not super aware of EU/European politics, so I don't know all the issues with the EU as a governing/regulatory power--I do know that there are people who blame the EU technocrats for Greece's financial woes, for example, but not much more than that (and to be honest I'm not sure if that view is a prevailing view or not). But all of this seems to point to a really obvious need for something like the EU, even if it's not specifically the EU itself. Most of Europe seems to understand that a fate balanced between the whims of a fickle America and the autocratic leanings of Russia and China is no kind of fate at all, and that the way out is to maintain its own source of economic and sociopolitical power.
Unless you think that Pakistan or Iran are in Europe, I would also like to see the receipts about teaching young kids on hating the US at school...
I don't even get that talking point.
The US has spent the last few years bullying and shredding as much alliances as it could.
Like why would EU member side with the US when they'll make unreasonable demands as soon as its convenient?
Can't really side with China for obvious reasons but really staying out of it is the safer option, heck the message about the US not wanting to protect its allies with NATO was pretty clear too.
I wanna see that too, if anything young kids are taught to love the US at a very young age.
Pretty much the point of the Hollywood machine too.
I disagree, I don't think there is anything China or any other nation can do to overtake the US as a cultural powerhouse. This alone is why the US will always be relevant on a global stage. The world consumes US media, sports, music and products on a level that no other nation can hope to match.
I was honestly surprised Trump could just do that. If I understand it right, entering an international agreement requires Congress approval of some kind, but leaving one can be done at any time at the President's discretion.
That's at least what it seemed like with Trump. I'm not saying there shouldn't be a way to leave an agreement, sometimes that's just necessary. But the whole lopsided nature of entering versus leaving made me do a doubletake.
I do hope Biden can fix some of this mess that Trump left behind, and maybe make the government slightly less prone to fascist takeovers, but that might be harder than it looks.
I wish I could say I was optimistic or admiring towards the US, but honestly... I worry. What's happening does not seem entirely unfamiliar, and that's terrifying at times.
Well, I can't blame them. I'd say that the US has finally managed to dethrone Japan as the most dysfunctional democracy in the developed world, so it's hard put much faith in the country turning things around. Just look at how many people have effectively disavowed any pretense towards caring about democratic institutions in favor of tribalism. The American system is broken right now and it will take a lot more than one presidency to fix it.
True. But we can all quit pretending that the Europeans give a fuck about human rights vis-à-vis China. Merkel is fine with turning a blind eye as long as she gets her trade deals honored.
Europeans are fucking inconsequential for us if we are looking to curb Chinese influence. Any united stand with them is not going to happen
Well, the far-right extremism the US faces is also present in Europe, although to a lesser extent, yet its debatable whether that's due to the voting system of the US just being more encouraging for developments like these or simply because Americans are just more fond of fascist ideas nowadays compared to Europeans.
Either way, the problem is acute here and there and we should work together to fight it.
For the time being, the US hasn't acted as a liberal democratic force in the world in 4 years and now has to prove that it is willing to stand up for these values again under Biden.
This means confronting China over the grotesque violation of human rights and liberal values with concern to the Uygurs, as well as confronting them over Hong Kong and the undoing of its democracy and rule of law.
It means pushing for value-based climate policy and forming alliances of the willing.
But first and foremost it means confronting the undemocratic system and its illiberal elements at home.
Only then can the US win back some goodwill with the rest of the western world.
Either way, the problem is acute here and there and we should work together to fight it.
For the time being, the US hasn't acted as a liberal democratic force in the world in 4 years and now has to prove that it is willing to stand up for these values again under Biden.
This means confronting China over the grotesque violation of human rights and liberal values with concern to the Uygurs, as well as confronting them over Hong Kong and the undoing of its democracy and rule of law.
It means pushing for value-based climate policy and forming alliances of the willing.
But first and foremost it means confronting the undemocratic system and its illiberal elements at home.
Only then can the US win back some goodwill with the rest of the western world.