Greg Miller and Andrea Rene handwave Notch and PewDiePie racist, transphobic and anti-semitic behaviour (UP: GM and AR respond; see threadmarks)

[TheGhost]

Relistening now.

It's fascinating that Andrea summed up the Minecraft stuff to essentially
"this is Microsoft just trying to look good"

When this is something on any other day you would get it!!
That's what's frustrating, it's out of character for her.

But oh boy that "sometimes we realize we could have said that better"

Umm yeah no shit lol.

 

[Turkoop]

I don't think I fully understand the whole story. I was listening to the video and just had read the first post. I think Greg is okay but a huge thing is, that Andrea cannot admit her mistake/fault. Or her statements. That's such a shitty character trait.

 

[Bear]

Jeeeez, she is very hard to listen to. Just comes off as completely ignorant.

Greg did a decent job in criticizing Notch, as he should have. She was just not letting him get the final word in.

 

[jimtothehum]

I think podcasters and personalities have a responsibility when they wade into subjects like this to actually do the homework and really have an understanding of the issues at stake. "Well, I kinda have been following this but don't know the whole story.." just doesn't really fly when it comes to stories that have larger cultural impact. You will always get yourself in hot water. Do your homework!

 

[MilesQ]

Racism has never completely died in Europe, its just that the huge majority of people knew exactly what it lead to the last time it went overboard, and no one wants his neighborhood to be a Battlefield again.
The ones using variations of the n-word are mostly old people but even among them, most are aware of the negative connotation it has (based on last week where I spent the entire week being hospitalized).
In the meantime however racism has been on the rise again, and it became painfully obvious after the 2016 US presidential election. The election of Trump gave far-right wingers as well as racist enough ammo to be a little more loose, to actually say what they mean. With all that said, it's still not like there's two groups of people living in the same country, there's still a sense of community.


There are Black communities all over Europe, but the biggest Hotspot for Black communities is definitely France. I myself have family over in France, and from my visits I would say it's not far fetched to say that , based on skin color, black people are the second largest group in France. That's without lokking it up tho.

As for seeing a difference in how people treat me: Generally no. I do say of myself that I'm a nice guy who is respectful towards others, so this might play a role in as why I am able to get along with so many people, but I would be lying if I said that there aren't a couple of small things I occasionally notice that rub me the wrong way. It's small stuff like suggesting mostly black woman for me as dating options based on nothing but skin color, or asking me about weird things other African people did because "it might be a thing in Africa".

But that's really just miniscule stuff.

Click to shrink...

This feels so disconnected from the reality that many people of colour face in Europe. Just a cursory search will reveal article after article of how PoC are treated, not just by 'old people', but by police and others who hold positions of authority.

Hell, the UN is concerned about the levels of racism in Sweden.

https://www.thelocal.se/20180511/un-concerned-about-level-of-racism-in-sweden

Not to mention this...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46369046

I could honestly post dozens of links to videos, articles, etc highlighting just how bad racism is in Europe and how it's growing among all age groups, but I won't derail the thread.

 

[Jebusman]

Like it's okay not to know every single bit of minutia about all of this with notch and PDP if you genuinely just did not have the free time to catch up on this (I mean it's sort of lazy given Greg works in this industry but whatever).

Just understand that "maybe" the time for hot uninformed takes is not when the subject is about people being racist/sexist/transphobic. Or at least give a boilerplate "Fuck all bigots" and then maybe come back to it at some point when you've actually done a little bit of research.

And also to realize that you are not nearly famous enough that your reputation/stance/views precedes you, especially when that reputation isn't entirely in your favor in the first place.

 

[Turkoop]

Jeeeez, she is very hard to listen to. Just comes off as completely ignorant.

Greg did a decent job in criticizing Notch, as he should have. She was just not letting him get the final word in.

Click to shrink...

Yup, my thoughts, too.

 

[NoKisum]

Is there a black alternative to the amount of content people like Kinda Funny, EZA, and Giant Bomb put out?

 

[Extra Sauce]

I'm shocked that a close friend of Colin Moriarty is an idiot about social issues.

 

[Dhuggs_]

Look up Kinda Funny on twitter or their reddit. You got fans who don't care, saying it's a mistake and people are being too mean to them. You have some who are rightfully pissed and going, "what the fuck?" They'll lean towards their fans laying down to defend them any second they can. Everyone else is just a hateful internet mob.

That non apology by Greg might as well say, "Sorry but all this money makes it hard to take a stand. SORRY! Let's all be nice to each other"

 

[Karlinel]

While I understand that for a lot of you, these people don't deserve some of the scorn they are receiving in this thread, The fact is, this is Bigger then just Videogames.

You can be upset at how aggressive the rhetoric towards them is, just as much as Others can be upset about how little they care about normalizing dangerous people.

If you really are fans of their content, and fans of them as people, you owe it to yourselves and to them to Stop defending their Ambivalent behaviour, and hold them to a higher standard. People in their position set a Dangerous Precedent treating people enabling shootings like PewDiePie with kids gloves, and they should be politely and consistently held responsible until they are aware of the Responsibility they hold in their position.

Also, recognize why people get so mad they stop being polite when talking about this issue as For many people now, Especially after the things these two have said or done, this is much more then two videogame entertainers being uncritical about newsworthy individuals in their industry. Most people, Hell, ALL PEOPLE have a lot to lose letting these kinds of hateful people off the hook, and most are treating this the right way, as Unacceptable.

Please be more critical of people you enjoy watching or listening to on the internet. If you truly love and respect them as people, Be willing to Recognize when they've done wrong, and be supportive of them for trying to correct it. Playing Defense for internet celebrities isn't going to convince anybody that doesn't care about them, and it's sure as shit isn't going to help them improve and recognize their mistakes.

If they Double Down, and are unwilling to see their behaviour as unacceptable, You only owe it to yourself for providing a tiny piece of the shield that lets them think that way. If they have nothing to lose being uncritical of Massive Issues, they will Continue to be uncritical of Massive Issues, Period. Nobody should be thought to be above this kind of deflection, because for all intents and purposes, the most powerful or influential people never have to.

If you care about Kinda Funny, Please let them know responsibly how this isn't okay. And try not to get too bent out of shape when people are understandably Angry about downplaying some of the most influential people in Games being Massively Problematic.

Click to shrink...

+1. Very eloquently put.

 

[fargodog]

There wasn't any missing context to what Notch said. The content is the context. The only way you could believe otherwise is if you thought there was some truth to his tweets and that he was onto something that should be elaborated upon.

Which ain't a great look.

 

[Redfox088]

Is there a black alternative to the amount of content people like Kinda Funny, EZA, and Giant Bomb put out?

Click to shrink...

Not to my knowledge but there is the Gaming Illuminaughty, weapon wheel, iron lords podcast, press start podcast.

 

[Mugman]

I saw a few other people mention this before, but for anyone who was paying attention this isn't a surprise at all. The association with and defending of Colin Moriarty should've already been an indication of where this guy stands years ago. It's super easy to give a blanket statement of "fuck bigots" on a forum where most of your audience won't see it. The right thing to do, if he actually believed the things he was saying, would be to do a follow-up statement on the podcast and his social media. And not the same toothless, vague one he gave on here. He won't because he either doesn't care or doesn't want to tarnish his brand image of "likable loaf of inoffensive white bread"

 

[kyle mechlachlan]

Did Greg actually start and frame his entire "response" with the same tired "Sorry you were offended" nonsense? Be more self aware ffs.

 

[StealthieOne]

Damn, never wouldve expected Greg and Andrea to defend both of those pricks. Really disappointing...

Click to shrink...

Extremely disappointing

 

[KingKong]

Is there a black alternative to the amount of content people like Kinda Funny, EZA, and Giant Bomb put out?

Click to shrink...

https://www.youtube.com/c/WoolieVersus

 

[Vic Damone Jr.]

The gaming community these days is like a zombie horror movie. Every week another person turns around with the yellow glow in their eyes, and we can only impotently wail, "No, not you too!"

I grow very exhausted by all the hatred in this world. It really does infect people like a disease...

Click to shrink...

You should assume majority of people that's of a certain persuasion has shitty views on race, sex, and religion.

To everyone offended, the question now is will you stop watching and supporting these people? I know the answer for most will be no.

 

[bill crystals]

How can you be a pseudo-famous person who watches all these "I'm sorry if you were offended" style apologies day in day out....and then write one yourself? Like you literally have the template for what NOT to do and you just...did it.

 

[Buzzman]

This is horseshit. My job isn't to educate adults who should be able to learn all they need on this with an internet search. I'm sick of this nonsense of how I've got to be the one to teach everyone else. When I don't know something, I educate myself. Greg and his cohost should have done the same. If all you've got is some nonsense that puts the onus to change on the person not normalizing racist behavior, then save your response. I've heard it before.

Click to shrink...

Of course it's our onus to educate people. White people did not suddenly one day wake up and realize that genocide/slavery/segregation was wrong. They had to be taught and shown, repeatedly, for YEARS. I will never expect white people to give us something out of the kindness of their hearts. Every step will have to be fought for.
Minorities have had to struggle more and act better than whites for the last two hundred years, there is nothing intrinsically different today.

The comical thing about all of this is I'm one of the more moderate posters on the forum and unabashedly so. You want to go educate the ignorant masses, have at it, but it's not my responsibility and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. Crazy how the story is these two people normalizing racist behavior, but somehow you're still finding a way to handwave it away and make everyone else seem like they're in the wrong. I'm fine if people want to educate others and I wouldn't put them down, but it's unrealistic to expect everyone to do that.

Click to shrink...

It's not your personal responsibility to fix this, just like any other individual poster on era. I just want people to know that the rage and anger they show towards people who make mistakes can sometimes be counterproductive.
Do with that knowledge what you want.

I honestly don't give a shit about the two involved in this shitshow, I'm just worried that if ResetERA spurns every single media outlet (justified or not), nobody will listen to them anymore and the entire gaming community will go hard right. That is what I'm most afraid of.

 

[Budi]

Did Greg actually start and frame his entire "response" with the same tired "Sorry you were offended" nonsense? Be more self aware ffs.

Click to shrink...

Eh, not really I think. "If that wasn't clear, I missed the mark and failed at being the man I want to be. End of story." I think this is clearly taking the responsibility for how the discussion went down.

 

[Kurdel]

Did Greg actually start and frame his entire "response" with the same tired "Sorry you were offended" nonsense? Be more self aware ffs.

Click to shrink...

He is also "always listening" so he can be "part of the conversation" 🙄

 

[chirt]

Click to shrink...

Is that Kermit?

 

[louiedog]

I no longer remember what it was, but I unfollowed Andrea on twitter years ago after I noticed a pattern of her saying some things I found a little distasteful. I think they were all fairly benign until I read them together and then I decided she wasn't someone I wanted to listen to.

 

[bill crystals]

Eh, not really I think. "If that wasn't clear, I missed the mark and failed at being the man I want to be. End of story." I think this is clearly taking the responsibility for how the discussion went down.

Click to shrink...

This is LITERALLY how his apology starts

Hey, LebGuns--

I'm sorry that you walked away from this episode thinking that I didn't take a stand on this.

Click to shrink...

 

[Deleted member 12352]

Yikes almighty at that Notch defense forcing from Andrea.

 

[Budi]

This is LITERALLY how his apology starts

Click to shrink...

So it does, but it doesn't end there.

 

[TheRuralJuror]

Like it's okay not to know every single bit of minutia about all of this with notch and PDP if you genuinely just did not have the free time to catch up on this (I mean it's sort of lazy given Greg works in this industry but whatever).

Just understand that "maybe" the time for hot uninformed takes is not when the subject is about people being racist/sexist/transphobic. Or at least give a boilerplate "Fuck all bigots" and then maybe come back to it at some point when you've actually done a little bit of research.

And that you are not nearly famous enough that your reputation precedes you, especially when that reputation isn't entirely in your favor in the first place.

Click to shrink...

Exactly, if you don't know what the topic is, maybe stay away from ones like these.

Of course it's our onus to educate people. White people did not suddenly one day wake up and realize that genocide/slavery/segregation was wrong. They had to be taught and shown, repeatedly, for YEARS. I will never expect white people to give us something out of the kindness of their hearts. Every step will have to be fought for.
Minorities have had to struggle more and act better than whites for the last two hundred years, there is nothing intrinsically different today.


It's not your personal responsibility to fix this, just like any other individual poster on era. I just want people to know that the rage and anger they show towards people who make mistakes can sometimes be counterproductive.
Do with that knowledge what you want.

I honestly don't give a shit about the two involved in this shitshow, I'm just worried that if ResetERA spurns every single media outlet (justified or not), nobody will listen to them anymore and the entire gaming community will go hard right. That is what I'm most afraid of.

Click to shrink...

Then have at it, but realize that's not for everyone and you don't know anyone's experiences or personalities to be in a position where you can dictate something like this. Not everyone is a teacher nor should anyone be expected to continually wade through trolls and bad faith arguments in an effort to turn things around, which is kind of a pie in the sky mindset to begin with and definitely not the only way to fight against injustice. Greg isn't an ignorant dude, he knows he was uninformed and indicated as such in the vid, yet that didn't stop him or his cohost from giving their two cents.

Ignoring that and trying to turn it around on others is some straight clown behavior. Probably not much else to say on the matter.

 

[Deleted member 18161]

Nobody should be surprised that a couple of hacks and shills would behave like hacks and shills, especially considering the company they keep.

Click to shrink...

This.

 

[BlackJace]

Every day it becomes clearer that a lot of "centrists", and "both sides" people wear that hat because they think it absolves them of having to actually inform themselves about issues.

I mean, why be informed about anything? If you're informed about something, that means you care about it -- and that makes you an SJW!
Can't have that. No, because having a spine about something is tantamount to "rocking the boat", and we can't have that either.

But seriously, people like that...just come off as hopelessly...idk, dumb? Am I allowed to say that? I'm just so tired of these slack-jawed hacks across entertainment mediums using their platform to maintain the status-quo and profit off of reveling in their ignorance. I grew up around Asians, Jews, Muslims, etc. and was never taught in school or whatever to refrain from using slurs against them...I just grew up and experienced that that was not an acceptable thing to do. No one explicitly taught me, or lectured me not to do that.

These are grown-ass adults trying to make excuses for not having a modicum of understanding as to why hate speech is hate speech. It's just as ridiculous as our European friends on this very forum trying to justify their fellow countrymen and women not being aware of the connotation of blackface or the fucking N-word...IN 2019.

I simply don't have, nor to expect, to have any excuse for being woefully ignorant about well-documented, still-present social issues that go back hundreds and hundreds of years...so why do we make excuses for people like this?

 

[Porky]

Y'all should stop putting so much stock in people just cause they like the same games you like.

 

[bill crystals]

So it does, but it doesn't end there.

Click to shrink...

Maybe take a couple editing passes on your "could possibly be seen as defending known white supremacist idiot" apology is all I'm saying lol. Many people will rightly write him off after that sheepish opening line because that is the bog standard signal for "I haven't really done much honest introspective thinking about this, but it sure feels bad when people are mad at me."

 

[Wolfgunblood]

We're so desperate for heroes in these troubling times that we expect everyone who has a voice and who seems perceptibly decent to step up and be courageous, even though it's not entirely fair to expect that.

 

[TheRuralJuror]

Every day it becomes clearer that a lot of "centrists", and "both sides" people wear that hat because they think it absolves them of having to actually inform themselves about issues.

I mean, why be informed about anything? If you're informed about something, that means you care about it -- and that makes you an SJW!
Can't have that. No, because having a spine about something is tantamount to "rocking the boat", and we can't have that either.

But seriously, people like that...just come off as hopelessly...idk, dumb? Am I allowed to say that? I'm just so tired of these slack-jawed hacks across entertainment mediums using their platform to maintain the status-quo and profit off of reveling in their ignorance. I grew up around Asians, Jews, Muslims, etc. and was never taught in school or whatever to refrain from using slurs against them...I just grew up and experienced that that was not an acceptable thing to do. No one explicitly taught me, or lectured me not to do that.

These are grown-ass adults trying to make excuses for not having a modicum of understanding as to why hate speech is hate speech. It's just as ridiculous as our European friends on this very forum trying to justify their fellow countrymen and women not being aware of the connotation of blackface or the fucking N-word...IN 2019.

I simply don't have, nor to expect, to have any excuse for being woefully ignorant about well-documented, still-present social issues that go back hundreds and hundreds of years...so why do we make excuses for people like this?

Click to shrink...

Then the people criticizing them get blamed because it's our sole goal in life to repeatedly educate ignorant people according to some.

 

[marrec]

I mean... it's all relative isn't it? They're discussing something they clearly know very little about which makes them come off as ignorant at best. I'm not ready to crucify either of them but it is disappointing that Greg doesn't seem to actually know the roots of the Notch controversy. In the end, I think some people here are overstating the influence that they have. I definitely understand wanting your favorite personality to do better (tm) but let's reign in the hyperbole, as usual with these types of things, it's important to work on a sliding scale in order to not get lost in the weeds of outrage.

 

[Another Castle]

Maybe video games were just a mistake.

 

[Shola Akinnuso]

Is there a black alternative to the amount of content people like Kinda Funny, EZA, and Giant Bomb put out?

Click to shrink...

Absolutely not. There is NO alternative and the reason is, frankly, the gaming community.

 

[saenima]

I concur. This is getting way blown out of proportion. I don't always agree with Greg and Andrea, but they didn't come off as being racists/bigots. People need to seriously calm down. Threads like this only tend to cause more strife in the gaming community.

Click to shrink...

Oh noes we're the real racists! We are the ones sowing dissent on the loving, peaceful, totally not problematic gaming community! We literally created nazishitpie with our harsh criticism of bigots! What have we done?!

 

[labx]

So i notice that most of the people who are trying to downplay this are using the phrase "out for blood". Is that the new hot phrase for racists this season or what?

Click to shrink...

Yes it is very lame how people try to resolve their cognitive dissonances by making alternative narratives making new mantras like "out for blood". Many people just CAN'T have enough empathy to examine and think about what is to be a minority and why shit like that in that video is vile. The KF staff having a platform decided consciously not making an stand and make the lamest of excuses. 'out of context" is the new racist and trans/homophobic mantra.

 

[Jebusman]

I mean... it's all relative isn't it? They're discussing something they clearly know very little about which makes them come off as ignorant at best. I'm not ready to crucify either of them but it is disappointing that Greg doesn't seem to actually know the roots of the Notch controversy. In the end, I think some people here are overstating the influence that they have. I definitely understand wanting your favorite personality to do better (tm) but let's reign in the hyperbole, as usual with these types of things, it's important to work on a sliding scale in order to not get lost in the weeds of outrage.

Click to shrink...

Is this post supposed to be sarcastic or did you just jump in after 1000+ posts to do nothing but handwave away criticism?

Arguing Andrea knew "little" is a stretch considering what she said.

Greg continuing to not be able to stand up to people when on-air continues to make his claims of being against bigotry ring hollow.

We're so desperate for heroes in these troubling times that we expect everyone who has a voice and who seems perceptibly decent to step up and be courageous, even though it's not entirely fair to expect that.

Click to shrink...

What? It's not fair to expect people to not dismiss racists? It's not fair to not expect people to try and excuse racist/sexist garbage with "out of context" deflections?

 

[Kurdel]

We're so desperate for heroes in these troubling times that we expect everyone who has a voice and who seems perceptibly decent to step up and be courageous, even though it's not entirely fair to expect that.

Click to shrink...

It's not hard to read up on MAJOR figures in your industry and figure out how much they are shit.

Repudiating white supremacy and bigotry isn't some heroic or brave act, it is the fucking baseline.

 

[StalinTheCat]

I mean... it's all relative isn't it? They're discussing something they clearly know very little about which makes them come off as ignorant at best. I'm not ready to crucify either of them but it is disappointing that Greg doesn't seem to actually know the roots of the Notch controversy. In the end, I think some people here are overstating the influence that they have. I definitely understand wanting your favorite personality to do better (tm) but let's reign in the hyperbole, as usual with these types of things, it's important to work on a sliding scale in order to not get lost in the weeds of outrage.

Click to shrink...

Wat.

What weeds of outrage? I am so confused.
This has nothing to do with "favourite personality", this has to do with two "public" people not being able to take a stand and handwaving (yes, Andrea more than Greg) really bad shit.

 

[Alucrid]

We're so desperate for heroes in these troubling times that we expect everyone who has a voice and who seems perceptibly decent to step up and be courageous, even though it's not entirely fair to expect that.

Click to shrink...

i would also take not being an idiot and talking about things you know nothing about but perhaps it's not entirely fair to expect that

 

[saenima]

While I understand that for a lot of you, these people don't deserve some of the scorn they are receiving in this thread, The fact is, this is Bigger then just Videogames.

You can be upset at how aggressive the rhetoric towards them is, just as much as Others can be upset about how little they care about normalizing dangerous people.

If you really are fans of their content, and fans of them as people, you owe it to yourselves and to them to Stop defending their Ambivalent behaviour, and hold them to a higher standard. People in their position set a Dangerous Precedent treating people enabling shootings like PewDiePie with kids gloves, and they should be politely and consistently held responsible until they are aware of the Responsibility they hold in their position.

Also, recognize why people get so mad they stop being polite when talking about this issue as For many people now, Especially after the things these two have said or done, this is much more then two videogame entertainers being uncritical about newsworthy individuals in their industry. Most people, Hell, ALL PEOPLE have a lot to lose letting these kinds of hateful people off the hook, and most are treating this the right way, as Unacceptable.

Please be more critical of people you enjoy watching or listening to on the internet. If you truly love and respect them as people, Be willing to Recognize when they've done wrong, and be supportive of them for trying to correct it. Playing Defense for internet celebrities isn't going to convince anybody that doesn't care about them, and it's sure as shit isn't going to help them improve and recognize their mistakes.

If they Double Down, and are unwilling to see their behaviour as unacceptable, You only owe it to yourself for providing a tiny piece of the shield that lets them think that way. If they have nothing to lose being uncritical of Massive Issues, they will Continue to be uncritical of Massive Issues, Period. Nobody should be thought to be above this kind of deflection, because for all intents and purposes, the most powerful or influential people never have to.

If you care about Kinda Funny, Please let them know responsibly how this isn't okay. And try not to get too bent out of shape when people are understandably Angry about downplaying some of the most influential people in Games being Massively Problematic.

Click to shrink...

Very well said.

 

[G_O]

This.

Click to shrink...

Which company do they keep these days that are unsavory? If it is Colin Moriarty, just be aware they severed ties with him a couple of years ago

Just like Kinda Funny should do more research on stories they report on, perhaps posters here should do the same before commenting. By all means they deserve critisism for how they handled the news story on their show yesterday but there have been a few other shots fired that at Greg in particular that have been quite unfair

 

[Igniz12]

It's not hard to read up on MAJOR figures in your industry and figure out how much they are shit.

Repudiating white supremacy and bigotry isn't some heroic or brave act, it is the fucking baseline.

Click to shrink...

Alternatively, just stfu and dont add to the shit out there.

 

[Parenegade]

Maybe take a couple editing passes on your "could possibly be seen as defending known white supremacist idiot" apology is all I'm saying lol. Many people will rightly write him off after that sheepish opening line because that is the bog standard signal for "I haven't really done much honest introspective thinking about this, but it sure feels bad when people are mad at me."

Click to shrink...

If you write someone off after a single sentence you were never really interested in a dialogue in the first place.

 

[Budi]

Maybe take a couple editing passes on your "could possibly be seen as defending known white supremacist idiot" apology is all I'm saying lol. Many people will rightly write him off after that sheepish opening line because that is the bog standard signal for "I haven't really done much honest introspective thinking about this, but it sure feels bad when people are mad at me."

Click to shrink...

Oh sure I kinda get why people might stop reading right there, but they shouldn't. The point shouldn't be to manufacture a perfect apology with no holes to poke, but to be sincere. Atleast I think so. The problem with "sorry you're offended" apology is passing the blame to another person, the person hurt has a problem, they were the ones choosing to be offended, they mispresented you. But Greg seems to take the responsibility and blame himself and wants to improve, so I really see no issues with that. Knowing how to apologize is of course a good skill to have, or the ability to apologize to begin with which too many people lack.

They should also adress this in the show though, not just in ResetEra post.

 

[Kurdel]

Alternatively, just stfu and dont add to the shit out there.

Click to shrink...

Ah yes, the tried and true method of ignoring white supremacists with millions of followers until it just goes away by itself.

 

[Roygbiv95]

Is there a black alternative to the amount of content people like Kinda Funny, EZA, and Giant Bomb put out?

Click to shrink...

The amount of content? Not sure, but Spawn on Me is a very insightful podcast with a similar format. Its from a black perspective and centers on news and reviews/impressions and often interviews with game designers and more industry professionals.