To add to this... those Senate Dems then did an about face and supported her in the following days, probably because Pelosi is a boss.
GOP leadership: There aren't 51 votes in U.S. Senate to dismiss Trump articles of impeachment
- Thread starter Deleted member 3812
- Start date
Yeah, they did the right thing and publicly came back in line. But... this is when I think it went from public signalling to private to move things along. At least, as of Tuesday Pelosi had said she was waiting for committments from McConnell, in the ensuing days a number of Democrats broke from that, then publicly came back in, McConnell never acquiesced, and Pelosi ended up signalling that she'd be sending it to the Senate by the end of the week.
Their comments were always very measured, too, obviously nothing salacious or incendiary, they supported Pelosi and her decisions but also signaled it was time to move them to the senate.
I wouldn't trust them at all, how many times have they said one thing and then done something for their own benefit knowing the Dems will give in or try to do the right thing only for them to take advantage of it.
If Mitch doesn't have the votes to dismiss or get a no-witness trial, he will not hold a vote for either. Can't have it seen as a "win" for Dems, he'll just say he was being reasonable all along when they have a normal trial and fail to remove the president anyway.
Despite the Senate Dems motivations to get their colleagues back into the campaign field ASAP, Pelosi has been pretty canny with her wait and bait strategy. We've got Lev's documents tossing a hand grenade into the House investigations and McConnell has his own moderate darlings to contend with. Now the conversation is about why witnesses can't be heard from, and nobody cares that Nancy is still waiving Impeachment in Trump's face as he rages and makes rash, unpopular decisions.
I really hope when they say witnesses they actually mean witnesses plural and not just John Bolton because I'm convinced that he's a trap.
McConnell never wanted to skip the trial entirely. Sham trial sure, but he never pushed for summary dismissal.
Before they withheld it, that's exactly what would have happened. Now it will be a sham trial because Bolton will never show up, even though he said he will. I still think the best course of action is to hold it. Repubs are trying to bait them into a trial, Bolton saying hell "show up" and some supposed bipartisan repubs won't vote for dismissal. It's all a trap.
He was quite adamant in public about holding the trial even before Pelosi held onto the Articles. Sure, he could have been posturing, but it makes more sense for them to hold a quick sham trial and acquit over no trial at all.
After all McConnell still wants to be the majority leader in 2021 and does sometimes run into tangible disagreements with the more moderate Senate Rs. An outright dismissal or refusal to even have a trial would not play well for vulnerable Senators in swing states, especially with the polling on this issue being what it was at the time.
Mittens has come out publicly saying he will vote for witnesses, which doesn't seem like something he'd do if it wasn't going to happen.
rombot has been poking at trump for a while, i think he knows that once trump is eventually gone people might want bland oatmeal to take his place to go "well, what a wild few years that was, huh"
Bolton already denied appearing in the impeachment hearings, not sure why this would be any different. Most of the subpoenas have been ignored, no reason for him to comply when there is no consequences.
Bolton's said he'll show for the Senate, though Trump said he would declare privilege.
Democrats should really explore if there is a means to get the republicans making these statements to commit to it before hand, because if there's one thing the past several decades should have taught us, it's to never trust the modern republican party.
Ok. Holding a trial is expected, but I wasn't at all sure they'd agree to call witnesses.
They would probably prefer the trial into the acquittal no? Dismissal at least in terms of optics makes it sound like they were scared of a trial.
Privilege can't be declared to stop someone who doesn't work for the admin from speaking, it can only be claimed by someone in the executive to stop themselves from speaking. In other words, there is no law on earth that could stop Bolton from testifying if he wanted to.
This is missing the GOP context, which is the 3 weeks of "so what are your thoughts on witnesses?" aimed at vulnerable senators like Collins, who* just signaled this past weekend that she would now support witness testimony.
Pelosi's entire move was for witnesses (and various other rules, but that was the big one), and she's going to get them.
*for clarity, not just Collins has budged on this in the past few days. More GOP senators are now on record saying they won't block the concept of witness testimony.
In general, if X causes the GOP to rant for weeks nonstop to get you to not do X, then X was the right move. Holding the articles pissed off the entire GOP (not just the Senate). Their plan was to rush the trial in like 5 business days and acquit two weekends ago.
Or the real witnesses, aka Mulvaney, Bolton, Pompeo, etc not "ZOMG JOE AND HUNTER BIDEN LOLZ".
Putin's still fucking that chicken rn:
By "looking for" they mean "make up some projected horseshit about their plan to leech off of US-UKR natural gas trade they ALSO got caught doing".
We had to have a fucking vote on whether to allow witnesses at a trial. A trial for a guy who's been complaining for months that he wouldn't be allowed to call witnesses. This is fucking dumb shit.
R-Money is for sure looking in to running again. Especially if we have a one-term Dem president.
Good. He'd lose the general again for the same reasons.
She was never going to get McConnell to agree to allow witnesses and evidence in the Senate trial. Instead, she made it a major news story for a few weeks in order to make it so that Republican senators in competitive states can't vote to block witnesses and evidence without looking like they're complicit in a coverup. If it worked, we'll get an actual trial. If it failed, we'll have a new line of attacks to flip those seats.
At this point I'd bet Collins, Romney, and Murkowski vote for removal, with or without witnesses in the Senate portion. Romney and Murkowski are safe, Collins is trying to save her job at the last minute. Ben Sasse will cluck loudly and still vote to acquit.
He wants vindication, and that's what he'll get in the end.
It doesn't matter if they vote to allow some witnesses.
It doesn't matter if somehow we get all the witnesses and documents that the Democrats want.
It doesn't matter that the evidence is obvious and overwhelming.
The Republicans are not going to convict Trump no matter what.
He's going to get the vindication he wants.
It's happening...this coward wouldn't be sticking his neck out like this unless he was sure it had enough support.
right, 67. No way they will collect that much. The Republicans who might bend may be an handful, bu they won't vote if they are not certain of having the removal.
I dunno, if 51+ senators vote to remove after testimony from Bolton and text messages from Parnas are revealed at trial, I don't think "45-47 Republican Senators let by majority leader McConnell save president from consequences for obvious criminal activity" has quite the ring that the GOP is hoping for.
this, also Roberts will be presiding over the whole thing. Mconnell won't have complete control over the trial.That's why he wanted to to dismiss outright.
once this shit starts, who knows what can come out. No gop senator wants to deal with this during an ejection year.
Majority votes from the Senate can also override whatever input Roberts has. So it's not that cut and dry.
..and we all know if he retains office by 1 vote, PRESIDENT VINDICATED is exactly what the headlines will read and most aren't reading passed that.
It takes two thirds of the senators present.
You aren't getting that many Republicans.
At best you'll get the ones for whom an acquittal vote could be used against them in the election but that's it, and it's not enough.
99% of the people in the US are too fucking stupid to care beyond the inevitable acquittal vote. Republicans will cheer vindication, the news will report vindication.
Total vindication will be the reality we live in.
Best case scenario, as if god itself intervened, which 18 senators would most likely vote for removal?
I don't think even an omnipotent god can muster a list of 10 senators.
but i do thibk if 3-5 end up voting for removal, even if politically it was pointless, symbolically it will be a loss for trump
I don't think even an omnipotent god can muster a list of 10 senators.
but i do thibk if 3-5 end up voting for removal, even if politically it was pointless, symbolically it will be a loss for trump
Sure, it looks better. They can say they actually cleared the President.
Burgess Everett @burgessevhttps://twitter.com/burgessev/status/1217147241422606342
Murkowski says she'd oppose a motion to dismiss, joining Collins, Romney and Alexander: "if it was immediately and before we had a chance to ask questions, yeah I would" https://twitter.com/burgessev/status/1217145225652645888 …
1:11 PM - Jan 14, 2020
Katherine Faulders @KFauldershttps://twitter.com/KFaulders/status/1217144062484066304
On motion to dismiss, Sen. Graham says "I just think that's not practical. You're not gonna get get the Senate to not hear from the House." Trump has urged Republicans to dismiss the charges against him, but the votes aren't there.
12:58 PM - Jan 14, 2020
Which is why not even that will happen unless Trump pulls another Iran on the day of the vote.
It's not really "sticking his neck out". He pretty much has a lifetime appointment as senator of Utah so something like this is very low risk.
I have my doubts even that would move the scales. Heck, I'm wondering if he's dumb enough that there is some written/digital documentation of him ordering the Soleimani for the express purpose of distracting from the impeachment, because I think even that would just be dismissed by most GOP turds.