German government will push for a European federation

[Teddy]

A couple of sources below, originally from the coalition agreement:

The Social Democrats, Greens and the liberal FDP announced that a 'traffic light' coalition between the three parties would push for the development of a fully-fledged European federation.

According to the coalition agreement presented on Wednesday, the coalition wants to use the ongoing Conference on the Future of Europe as a starting point to reform the EU.

The conference should lead to a constitutional process and ultimately to the "development of a federal European state," the document reads.

"A sovereign Europe is the key for our foreign policy," said Olaf Scholz, who will likely be inaugurated as chancellor in the second week of December.

"As an economically strong and the most populous country in the heart of Europe, it is our mission to enable, foster and advance a sovereign Europe," he added.

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https://www.euractiv.com/section/po...vernment-will-push-for-a-european-federation/

EU federation?

The 177-page agreement also proposes ambitious EU reform. It will push for a Conference on the Future of Europe to turn into a constitutional convention, while supporting "necessary treaty changes" that will "lead developments to a European federal state."

Top of the list is a new system for European elections that allows transnational lists for the European Parliament, which should also get a right of initiative - in other words the right to propose new legislation.

Currently, MEPs in the EU parties represent a national party. This move will start a move to a broader decentralised European voting system.

The coalition also favours the next commission president to be a 'Spitzenkandidat' [German for 'lead candidate'], continuing the disputed system whereby individual EU parties put forward their own top candidate for the presidency.

Germany has in the past sabotaged its own system on this, pushing Ursula von der Leyen ahead of Frans Timmermans, S&D's Spitzenkandidat and initially considered favourite for the top spot.

Finally, the coalition partners call for a stronger EU foreign office by replacing the unanimous voting system requiring all EU ministers to agree, with a qualified majority, overseen by a dedicated EU foreign minister.

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https://euobserver.com/democracy/153624

 

[Carn]

I'm having trouble picking the right GIF for these; either the 'dis gunna be good' or 'ah shit, here we go again'

jokes aside, I think it's a worthwile goal but I'm having a hard time picturing the road getting there.

 

[Koukalaka]

It'll be interesting to see how this impacts the discussion on closer European integration - I know Macron's been a big proponent of that up until now as well.

Also, how does this get reconciled with "backsliding" democracies in the EU like Poland and Hungary?

 

[eonden]

So EU Constitution 2.0?
That is going to go badly again.

They should instead push for easier more achievable goals that have a simialr effect and have a direct effect, such as Eurozone unemployment funds that serve to correct some of the deficiencies generated due to a partial monetary union.

Having the parties have a real candidates for the EU elections and not end up with the shit show that was the election of Ursula (which wasnt the candidate for a party) would help give more democratic legitimacy to the parliament (and its decisions). Same with more "Volt"-like parties that go to all the countries, instead of every party in each country being a complete separate entitty with little tying grounds.

 

[EddyZacianLand]

A European federation, I don't get it; what would that be and how would that be different to the EU?

 

[Gaucho Power]

A European federation, I don't get it; what would that be and how would that be different to the EU?

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For starters we would have central government instead of sovereign states.

 

[EddyZacianLand]

We would have central government instead of sovereign states.

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So similar to the UK then?

 

[eonden]

A European federation, I don't get it; what would that be and how would that be different to the EU?

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For starters, much better integration of military and external policy (as they are controlled by every single country). There is also a large divergance in many aspects in terms of rights in EU, mostly from a social services point of view. From an economic point, better economic redistribution of the wealth, as the current euro situation favours more some countries than others and there is little "payback".

 

[jelly]

Would it really be decentralised if people still vote then in from country parties? More kinda window dressing.

I wonder if they would create a separate tier so you could kick some countries into the long grass like Hungary etc. from grinding things to a halt.

 

[Arilian]

Are they ready to loosen the string of the purse a bit or are they still enamored fans of the Schwarze Null ?

A European federation, I don't get it; what would that be and how would that be different to the EU?

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They want a continental wide federal state, which is a (big) step further that what EU is right now.

 

[eonden]

For starters we would have central government instead of sovereign states.

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The EU already has a central government (we have a EU presidency and a parliament) and their laws have overrulling rights over national governments over specific stuff.
Hell you could say that the EU already has a senate too (represented by the Council which consists of the head of states of each EU country). Which currently has much more power than it should IMHO.

 

[Astandahl]

Lmao

"economically strong" These frauds can't be serious.

 

[FliX]

 

[Schreckstoff]

A European federation, I don't get it; what would that be and how would that be different to the EU?

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the EU boils down to a primarily economic cooperation and for some fundamental rights a political one. There's way too many areas where the EU is lacking cooperation, military, asylum, border control,... way too many issues within the EU fail at an unwillingness of cooperation and a lack of executive and legislative power from the side of the EU.

 

[ChrisP8Three]

So similar to the UK then?

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For the love of god nobody should do anything similar to us!

Is it more like the US? or anywhere else? because this is something i thought should happen and wish the UK had been around for, ever closer integration shouldn't be something we feared

 

[Youngfossil]

I can dig it

 

[Deleted member 9035]

As someone living outside of the EU, I sincerely hope they can make this work. We could use more western leadership.

 

[Couscous]

I hope a European federation can be achieved in the near future. Tax and corporate laws are in dire need for harmonisation.

 

[lunarworks]

So it would be more like Canada than an association of states?

 

[Grouch Douglass]

Is this because Putin is becoming more of a threat?

 

[Pulp]

I don't see this happening anytime soon honestly. A more centralized EU? Maybe, but actually giving up national sovereignty is a huge thing that I don't think most of the members of the EU agree upon.

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

Deeper military integration would be for the best at least. Putin and China showing expansionist tendencies there needs to be a stronger show of force to protect Europe's interests

 

[Gaucho Power]

All in all, I just hope there would be popular vote. I'm not necessarily against federation but I can see too many pitfalls. For example I can't see how simple issue such federal minimum wage could work in EU because already existing wage gap. For some countries it would be win and some countries could theoretically lower their current minimum wage.

But on the other hand, this is all theoretical because not much have been said what actual federation would look like.

 

[McNum]

Even if this was a good idea, Germany should not be the one to propose it. It reeks of obvious power play by the big countries.

 

[Tuppen]

Which countries want a federal Europe? People in Sweden are for the most part very much against such a development. Then again we've stayed out of the Eurozone even though we are obligated to join so I guess we are an outlier.

 

[BasilZero]

United States of Europe

USE

lol jk

 

[Gaucho Power]

Which countries want a federal Europe? People in Sweden are for the most part very much against such a development. Then again we've stayed out of the Eurozone even though we are obligated to join so I guess we are an outlier.

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France and Germany are the most vocal about the closer integration of EU. It's clearly an issue that can be political suicide since I doubt there is much support for it with general population across Europe.

But the political landscape is changing. This will be voting issue at national level within this decade.

 

[-Hyperion-]

Well, I wish you luck with the concept, but given what a slog it was to get the last treaty ratified, the worsened perception that core members benefit at the expense of fringe members, agitators like Poland's and Hungary's governments, and even the fact that a core country like France routinely has the far-right as the runner-ups in their elections and a freak outcome could see their government turn on a dime, I think the work done now will pay-off in about 20-30 years time.

 

[Dekuman]

For the love of god nobody should do anything similar to us!

Is it more like the US? or anywhere else? because this is something i thought should happen and wish the UK had been around for, ever closer integration shouldn't be something we feared

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Yeah this is just nonsense and reflects your own USA= bad thinking.
A Federal Europe has been the dream of many Europeans since WW2. Germany is a federation. Federal governments aren't controversial.

Good for the EU if they can pull it off, they need a stronger central authority to counter the influence of China and Russia who can infiltrate one of the weaker states and stall EU agenda.

 

[Xando]

Eh slowdown a bit i guess.

Should push for deeper integration with france, spain, italy and benelux. Not sure i want the current V4 goverments having a say in my government.

United States of Europe

USE

lol jk

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Would probably be called European federation or something. Doubt they'd name it like the USA.

 

[eonden]

Eh slowdown a bit i guess.

Should push for deeper integration with france, spain, italy and benelux. Not sure i want the current V4 goverments having a say in my government

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We (Spain) made it into the cool group?

 

[Xando]

We (Spain) made it into the cool group?

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Sure trust you guys more than whatever the fuck is happening in eastern europe. Don't have to agree on everything but a basic value for democratic forms is pretty much where i draw the line

 

[Cantaim]

Yeah good luck with that

 

[BasilZero]

Eh slowdown a bit i guess.

Should push for deeper integration with france, spain, italy and benelux. Not sure i want the current V4 goverments having a say in my government.



Would probably be called European federation or something. Doubt they'd name it like the USA.

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i know I was just joking lol

 

[thewienke]

It'll be interesting to see how this impacts the discussion on closer European integration - I know Macron's been a big proponent of that up until now as well.

Also, how does this get reconciled with "backsliding" democracies in the EU like Poland and Hungary?

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Kinda seems like this would have to be a separate thing like an EU within the EU. I don't think everyone will agree to give up their national identity for a true unified state.

 

[slider]

Something I'd support (even as a Brit!) but I honestly can't see it happening any time soon.

I think there might have been a bit around this sort of thing in The Invention of Tradition which I read years ago.

 

[Tremorah]

Good luck

I doubt this would ever actually happen, europe is build on very strong sense of national individualism in each countries

 

[Peru]

Not sure it's even strategically a wise decision. At least if they make the mistake of the United states, giving too much voting power to sparsely populated, right wing regions. Better to have to current system with the biggest players being (relatively speaking) pro-democratic and pro-human rights.

 

[Joni]

I would love more Europe. I feel more European than Belgian. But it is probably not a good time. Better to do some voluntary integration at the moment.

 

[balohna]

If this does happen I wonder if something more like the UK where you have distinct countries within one nation state, vs. other large countries that have provinces/states, makes sense. Keep your national identity, but ultimately there's the EF government sitting at the top. I don't know enough about geopolitics to say if this will be good or bad, I just know right wing nut jobs will hate it.

 

[Waaghals]

The EU cannot get a proper common security policy up and running, the notion that they would be able to function as a federal state is ridiculous.
If it ever happened the system would be completely paralyzed; imagine all the issues of the US, but worse.

 

[Quasi]

No thanks. Stick within your own borders for once Germany, thanks.

 

[sacrament]

Nah, won't happen. Too many competing interests, etc. A shared security pact would be something that's likely doable, common border security, and telecommunication efforts but not a federated super nation.

 

[sir_crocodile]

European Wrestling Federation

 

[mael]

Yeah, wait until the French election is done to push this shit.
We don't need to have the type of Brexit BS to poison that election thank you very much.

 

[Tomasoares]

No way this will work under such plural and different group of countries as UE.

 

[civet]

I would be up for it but I'm pretty sure that the vast majority of europeans want less EU at the moment, not many would be bothered if the whole thing collapsed in fact.

 

[kpaadet]

No thanks, don't want to be apart of some France/German empire.

 

[Teddy]

I would love for this to happen but I think you'd have so many competing parties from each EU member that you'd really struggle to find a concensus.

 

[Davilmar]

I don't see this happening, especially given that Macron is running for re-election next year, and there is a sizeable Euroskeptic crowd in France. Germany might be a player, but I don't see why Scholz is pushing this before he even takes office. The rest of Europe? Too many competing interests, and I can't imagine this will not be a messy and divisive issue. To some, it seems like the words of Margaret Thatcher were vindicated.