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Griffith

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,585
So after reading up on it a bit more, Thoma is indeed disappointing but he can work well with Hu Tao on a double pyro VV shred team.
 
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Tyaren

Tyaren

Character Artist
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
25,659
this is what I usually do for any RPGs but considering the dynamic nature of an online world, I would have assumed there are some prerequisites that I better get accustomed to before starting the game. I haven't started the game yet as it's too late for me to dive deep in but I will be going in head first tomorrow!

as for the wishes we are talking here, is this the gacha system in play? I did play FE Heroes for awhile so are the wishes comparable to Orbs?

This is an online game, but the world exploration and gameplay is mostly like any other offline singleplayer open world RPG, at least at the beginning. You'll see. :) Later on something like a resin system, daily commissions, coo-op or special events will come into play, which I guess is typical for online games.

Yes, the character wishes refer to the gacha system. At a certain point in the story, maybe a couple hours into the game, the gacha opens up to you. You can pretty much ignore it, or do your first wishes if you want to, preferably on the beginner banner. You should have 10 free wishes in your account.
I don't know how that compares to Fire Emblem as I have never played that or any other gacha.
 

Helix

Mayor of Clown Town
Banned
Jun 8, 2019
25,000
Primogems are the equivalent to orbs. In this game there is a pity system where on the character banners you are guaranteed a 5 star at 90 pulls, however there is a soft pity that starts at 75 pulls where you're increasingly likely to get it. There's two character banners (ignore the weapon banner, it's not for beginners), the limited one and the standard banner. Never spend your primogems on the standard banner, you'll get regular Acquaint fates by playing the game to pull on that one. Instead, spend your primos on the limited banner on characters you want. That one rotates every three weeks, though the current one is quite good.

so are these limited banners open from the start for beginners? I'd assume not and it's actually once the whole game opens up.

This is an online game, but the world exploration and gameplay is mostly like any other offline singleplayer open world RPG, at least at the beginning. You'll see. :) Later on something like a resin system, daily commissions, coo-op or special events will come into play, which I guess is typical for online games.

Yes, the character wishes refer to the gacha system. At a certain point in the story, maybe a couple hours into the game, the gacha opens up to you. You can pretty much ignore it, or if you want to do your first wishes, preferably on the beginner banner. You should have 10 free wishes in your account.
I don't know how that compares to Fire Emblem as I have never played it or any other gacha.

I have been seeing a lot of mention about the resin system, are resins required to actually progress through story content? or are they used to access endgame content?
 
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Tyaren

Tyaren

Character Artist
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
25,659
so are these limited banners open from the start for beginners? I'd assume not and it's actually once the whole game opens up.

I have been seeing a lot of mention about the resin system, are resins required to actually progress through story content? or are they used to access endgame content?

Limited banners are open to you right from the start, but first you should focus on the beginner banner as it is on sale and you are guaranteed at least 2 characters from it.

Nah, the story and world exploration is not hampered by resin in any way. You can play that as much and long as you want all day.
Your daily amount of resin is used to earn more mora (the game's money), to earn more experience books (to level up characters) and to obtain loot after a bosses. Most don't like the resin system, because it has you on a bit of a tight leash and lets you level up your character only so much every day. They don't want you to max out your new character in a day. ;)
 

MoonlitBow

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,041
I have been seeing a lot of mention about the resin system, are resins required to actually progress through story content? or are they used to access endgame content?
They are used to farm for materials like experience books, mora, talent books, artifacts, weapon materials, boss materials. There are some advices you'll hear like don't farm artifacts until AR45 and such (and in my experience you'll be using resin for exp books and mora less and less as time goes on)- but for the most part resin is more for building your characters rather than gating content.
 

l2iv6

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,154
ok after months of delaying this, I have finally put this game on download.

Is there any beginner's guide that you all recommend I have glance over to acquainted to this world? feels like I'm walking blind into a massive chasm

one really big thing that I never did at the beginning and wish I did so bad: mark shit you wanna go back to (anemoculi, shrines, flowers, whatever) on the map and label them. I wasted so much time and felt like I was going to go insane trying to find things again sometimes lmao

edit: another good thing about doing this from the beginning means you won't have to follow guides and maps to find things, and you can explore more organically at your own pace
 

blackw0lf48

Member
Jan 2, 2019
3,314
one really big thing that I never did at the beginning and wish I did so bad: mark shit you wanna go back to (anemoculi, shrines, flowers, whatever) on the map and label them. I wasted so much time and felt like I was going to go insane trying to find things again sometimes lmao

edit: another good thing about doing this from the beginning means you won't have to follow guides and maps to find things, and you can explore more organically at your own pace

Yea definitely seconding this. You're going to be spending a lot of time gathering resources for leveling, and marking where everything is will save you tons of time. And even things like flowers are a level resource.
 

Crooked Eye

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,050
The prospect of mono geo is quite exciting to me. We've been building overpowered vape/melt/freeze teams for the past 12 months so it's nice to think that I'll have another (hopefully) viable team composition to try. Hopefully they nail Gorou being a dedicated geo support and we see them refine it overtime with other elements as it's probably going to be the only thing that weens people off Bennet and Xingqui.
 

Busaiku

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,339
If I could ever get Jean than I can go full Anemo too.
Would be better with Xiao too, but I can work without him.
 

esserius

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,440
Wait, you think Ayaka is not good for this Abyss? I mean, apart from the usual supports and shiny new Raiden, she's currently the most used Main DPS for 3 star-ing Abyss according to the abyss data site. 75% of players that owned her, used her. Higher usage rate than Ganyu, Xiangling and Hu Tao.

I dunno why you're having issue with Ayaka's energy. There's plenty of Cyro battery option to choose and there's also Amenoma Kageuchi as well. She can be Cyro battery herself if needed (when paired with Ganyu).
No, that's not what I mean. I mean that she's not as efficient as Hu Tao in the current Abyss. Ayaka is extremely strong and definitely viable, but I don't think she's as easy to build for as Hu Tao, given Hu Tao really only needs Xingqiu. Ayaka needs a team built around funneling energy towards her.

I have 36* cleared with both, I just found the Hu Tao + Xingqiu combination easier to clear than my Ayaka comp (Ayaka comp is Diona / Zhongli / Albedo / Ayaka - I'm using PJC so I don't need extra Crit from Freeze). The differences time-wise are within 5-10 seconds of one another. What I found is that I was often worried about not having enough energy to Ult with Ayaka, whereas I didn't have this issue with Hu Tao.
 
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Tyaren

Tyaren

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Verified
Oct 25, 2017
25,659
An all geo team, and certain characters only shining in there, will just not be feasable for most players.
Sucks I'll have to skip Albedo again to have Itto guaranteed afterwards. :/

Omg, this is so cute! Genshin fluff balls:

FDiBSSsVkAcAovr

By https://twitter.com/Nagi_NanciC

Do you recognize them all? :)
 

Bansai

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,102
Guoba, Azhdaha, Rex Lapis, Qiqi, Toronto, Kokomi (?), Sara, Itto, Yae, aaaand Gorou!

Also, what's up with the shiny new tag Tyar-bo, it's sus af!
 

MoonlitBow

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,041
C6 Thoma is universally useful!
I mean, he is at C0 as well. If you need a shield then you can use him.

And as pointed above Sara can be used universally as well, she doesn't actually become specific to her element until C6. The reason she feels lacking is because other characters like Bennett and Diona do more than just the one thing and her mechanics are awkward to use, rather than because she was designed to support specific characters.

IMO based on leaks Gorou looks like what Sara should've been, where while he is basically locked to certain team setups, he will do a LOT within those teams.
 

esserius

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,440
Sara at C6 is a great support for just about any Electro unit. At C2 she's a workable general support, but C6 is really what you need to see her shine.
 

Deleted member 1594

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,762
You can just use XQ, that's who I use for her except for floor 12.
Figured he was more single target focused. But yeah, Hu Tao steals Xingqiu anyway.
So after reading up on it a bit more, Thoma is indeed disappointing but he can work well with Hu Tao on a double pyro VV shred team.
That's obviously the very narrow niche they designed him for. And yes, I can confirm that once you stack a crap ton of energy recharge on him, he can function in that capacity.

My Hu Tao can hit for 110K charge attacks now if I use Shimenawa. That would be even higher if I had Kazuha. Of course, you could always do this before if you're good enough to play without a shield. I just wish Thoma had some utility outside of just the shield. But you don't get that until C6.

So is Sara but not everybody gets lucky to pull 6 copies especially if you dont spend money on the game.
Sara C6 isn't universally useful. Her C6 is only good for electro characters. Very clearly designed to work with Raiden. That 6 second window is really only long enough for 1 big burst because it doens't snapshot. So Beidou isn't ideal. Keqing maybe if you use electro Keqing. And rumors are that Yae is going to be a bonkers electro DPS, so she could be good there too.

C6 Thoma is universally useful!
Yes. Indeed he is. But Mihoyo's strategy of gimping <C6 supports is a pretty dirty move and I don't really want to support that by spending money to get it.
 
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Tyaren

Tyaren

Character Artist
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
25,659
Guoba, Azhdaha, Rex Lapis, Qiqi, Toronto, Kokomi (?), Sara, Itto, Yae, aaaand Gorou!

I think the ones you thought are QiQi and Kokomi are actually Windspirit Venti and Dvalin. ;)


Also, what's up with the shiny new tag Tyar-bo, it's sus af!

Oh, that old thing?

lgrosrN.gif


I'm working as a character artist/designer for video games for some time now and never bothered or forgot to be verified, but recently a discussion in another topic reminded me again of it.
 
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ekka4shiki

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,952
No, that's not what I mean. I mean that she's not as efficient as Hu Tao in the current Abyss. Ayaka is extremely strong and definitely viable, but I don't think she's as easy to build for as Hu Tao, given Hu Tao really only needs Xingqiu. Ayaka needs a team built around funneling energy towards her.

I have 36* cleared with both, I just found the Hu Tao + Xingqiu combination easier to clear than my Ayaka comp (Ayaka comp is Diona / Zhongli / Albedo / Ayaka - I'm using PJC so I don't need extra Crit from Freeze). The differences time-wise are within 5-10 seconds of one another. What I found is that I was often worried about not having enough energy to Ult with Ayaka, whereas I didn't have this issue with Hu Tao.

That's fair. Ayaka does need proper energy management. However you're comparing a pretty much meta Hu Tao setup (Hu Tao Vape) to an unorthodox Ayaka setup (not Ayaka Freeze). Which, I dunno, may or may not affect her performance? You see, Zhongli and Albedo both have RNG-based energy generation. 50% chance to produce particles each hit. I feel, when you're not lucky this is the potential reason why sometimes you're just off from reaching enough energy for her. I mean, Ayaka Freeze typically utilized anemo units which are one of the better particle contributors for the team (which should help smoothing rotation on top off using dedicated cyro battery). But I guess, this is what you meant by saying she needs a team built around her.
 

Bansai

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,102
I think the ones you thought are QiQi and Kokomi are actually Windspirit Venti and Dvalin. ;)




Oh, that old thing?

lgrosrN.gif


I'm working as a character artist for video games for some time now, lol, and never bothered or forgot to be verified, but recently a discussion in another topic reminded me again of it.

Oh yeah, one is definitely Dvalin, Venti makes sense too.

interesting... :>

if you ever feel like sharing what games you work/worked on, be my guest, even on PM!
 

Liv

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Aug 20, 2019
1,459
What's a good Ayaka team that doesn't include Mona? Because.... I don't have Mona.

I also don't have mistsplitter, and I feel like Jade Cutter is overkill on crit rate for her (since she doesn't really need much).
Ayaka/XQ/Venti/Diona is always one half of my abyss teams. I also don't have Mona.

Jade cutter will surely put you over 100% CR and is kind of a waste of stats, but oh well if you don't have missplitter you might as well go with it.
 

Griffith

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,585
That's obviously the very narrow niche they designed him for. And yes, I can confirm that once you stack a crap ton of energy recharge on him, he can function in that capacity.

My Hu Tao can hit for 110K charge attacks now if I use Shimenawa. That would be even higher if I had Kazuha. Of course, you could always do this before if you're good enough to play without a shield. I just wish Thoma had some utility outside of just the shield. But you don't get that until C6.

Yeah, overall he's quite underwhelming and he seems to fill a similar niche position as Rosaria except, arguably, less effective than her at his niche. At least he has some uses unlike... well, you know... a certain other pyro shielder.
 

esserius

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,440
That's fair. Ayaka does need proper energy management. However you're comparing a pretty much meta Hu Tao setup (Hu Tao Vape) to an unorthodox Ayaka setup (not Ayaka Freeze). Which, I dunno, may or may not affect her performance? You see, Zhongli and Albedo both have RNG-based energy generation. 50% chance to produce particles each hit. I feel, when you're not lucky this is the potential reason why sometimes you're just off from reaching enough energy for her. I mean, Ayaka Freeze typically utilized anemo units which are one of the better particle contributors for the team (which should help smoothing rotation on top off using dedicated cyro battery). But I guess, this is what you meant by saying she needs a team built around her.
Yep

Again, I am not saying that one is better than the other. They are both extremely strong right now. My teams are basically Raiden National on one side (I use C6 Sara instead of Xingqiu because the damage bonus is insane and Raiden is my hypercarry at C3). And Geobros flex (Zhongli + Albedo + Flex + Flex) on the other side.

Realistically though, I think if I had to define my teams it would basically be Bennett Flex (Bennett + Xiangling + Flex + Flex) and Geobros Flex (Zhongli + Albedo + Flex + Flex).
 

Aexact

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,454
I hate that for Hu Tao I have to farm two different bosses for ascension materials.
Technically you don't but it's gonna take some rng to get the right element and more Primo Geovisap battles than you need.

… if you value resin more than time, just wait for him to be red.
genshin-impact.fandom.com

Primo Geovishap

The Primo Geovishap is a Normal Boss challenge found in Minlin, Liyue. Other than Prithiva Topaz , the possible Ascension Gems obtained depend on the Element the Primo Geovishap is infused with. Claiming the Trounce Blossom for Original Resin ×40 after defeating the boss offers the following...
Farming Strategy: The Primo Geovishap drops ascension stones of its elemental infusion, as well as Geo stones, so if you want a particular ascension stone element, you can wait for the boss's element to be the right one.

  • The Boss's element will change at server reset, or when it respawns after being defeated, so you can kill the boss without collecting rewards and repeat until it has the desired infusion.
 

thematic

Fallen Guardian
Member
Oct 31, 2017
943
I pulled 130 times on scam banner
but luckily I got 2 of my most wanted weapon : WGS and Homa

now I need to start saving again for Albedo, Kazuha, Yae :|
 

xendless

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Jan 23, 2019
11,986
I think this is less true now, given that there have been multiple weeks now where Abyss is basically just a handful of targets, rather than lots of enemies, on the later floors. Ayaka and Hu Tao are similar save but for one critical difference, which is reactions. Vaping with Xingqiu does a lot of damage and is very consistent, whereas Ayaka is energy hungry and basically lives around her Ult. I've found that my Ayaka doesn't do nearly as well against the small clumps of enemies in the later Abyss stages because I don't have enough energy to Ult multiple times off cooldown. Hu Tao doesn't have this issue, and Xingqiu is self-sufficient with his energy generation.

What weapon do you have on Ayaka btw?
I have her on R5 Amenoma Kageuchi and she's an ult machine
 

Taruranto

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,112
I never had energy problems with Ayaka but I use her with Sac Bow Diona and Venti. Her ult is always up for me.
 

Aexact

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,454
No, that's not what I mean. I mean that she's not as efficient as Hu Tao in the current Abyss. Ayaka is extremely strong and definitely viable, but I don't think she's as easy to build for as Hu Tao, given Hu Tao really only needs Xingqiu. Ayaka needs a team built around funneling energy towards her.
If anything, despite the current blessing and Hu Tao being the banner character I think this Abyss favors Ayaka. Unless you're so strong you can bulldoze each enemy in seconds (as Hu Tao is apt to do but comparatively), this abyss favors AOE damage. Someone posted the graph for single target and AOE dps check per each patch Abyss and the single target check was a substantial increase this time but the AOE check actually went down.
 
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esserius

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,440
If anything, despite the current blessing and Hu Tao being the banner character I think this Abyss favors Ayaka. Unless you're so strong you can bulldoze each enemy in seconds (as Hu Tao is apt to do but comparatively), this abyss favors AOE damage. Someone posted the graph for single target and AOE dps check per each patch Abyss and the single target check was a substantial increase this time but the AOE check actually went down.
The problem with this is that it assumes you can always get good grouping. Raiden gets to ignore grouping because you control her AoE and can effectively move her Ult around, but Ayaka's is a single direction and if the enemies move or don't clump together in the right direction (which you can't really control due to enemy weight on Floor 12), then you lose a lot of time (and damage) waiting for Ayaka's cooldown.

Hu Tao's skill basically an Ult that works primarily on single-target, which makes it great for this particular Abyss, where it's hard to clump enemies together. Even more helpful in that she's highly mobile due to the nature of her charged attacks. That said, Hu Tao is still harder to play than Ayaka, so there's always that as a consideration as well.
What weapon do you have on Ayaka btw?
I have her on R5 Amenoma Kageuchi and she's an ult machine
I mentioned before, but I use PJC. I do not generally have energy issues, but there are times where it becomes a problem, particularly if Diona's Sac Bow doesn't proc. I like being able to use Ayaka as a standalone unit, and with PJC she can definitely do that. Her other weapons, even Mistsplitter, aren't significantly farther ahead, and she's rather unique in that she can easily get to 100% Crit Rate with PJC.


One other thing - I do like to consider the power level of single units as a single unit. Yes, I'm aware teams are a big consideration for the game, but the reality is that oftentimes players will only be getting single units and that will be the only power unit they have due to pulling. I think it's important to look at units as microcosms before considering them in teams. To that point, both Ayaka and Hu Tao are fantastic. I think a lot of other 5* units have issues being "complete" without other units to boost them. In my opinion, Ganyu, Ayaka, Hu Tao, Venti, and Zhongli (Raiden is also in this list if she's at C2/C3) are the most agnostic units when it comes to their power. Basically, they can work by themselves or with others, but you are not losing power if you pull for them, whereas most other 5* come with significant caveats to their relative power level without unit X or Team Y.
 
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Liv

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Aug 20, 2019
1,459
but Ayaka's is a single direction and if the enemies move or don't clump together in the right direction (which you can't really control due to enemy weight on Floor 12), then you lose a lot of time (and damage) waiting for Ayaka's cooldown
Enemies don't move when they are frozen though. Freeze Ayaka absolutely destroys 12-3.

That's why I think comparing vape Hu Tao with non-freeze Ayaka disingenuous, even if PJC makes up for the CR. Freezing is a huge portion of grouping (Venti can suck them frozen mobs) and making sure her Ult hits from start to finish.
 

Hikari

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,380
Elysium
Why is Hu Tao good with the Inazuma artifact set? I've been using crimson witch the entire time but I have some good Inazuma ones. Should I swap?
 

esserius

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,440
Enemies don't move when they are frozen. Freeze Ayaka absolutely destroys 12-3.

That's why I think comparing vape Hu Tao with non-freeze Ayaka disingenuous, even if PJC makes up for the CR. Freezing is a huge portion of grouping (Venti can suck them frozen mobs) and making sure her Ult hits from start to finish.
This assumes that they clump together naturally. If they don't clump, it doesn't matter if you can freeze them or not. Venti's Ult cannot pull the enemies on 12-3-3, as far as I'm aware.

Why is Hu Tao good with the Inazuma artifact set? I've been using crimson witch the entire time but I have some good Inazuma ones. Should I swap?
Crimson Witch is still her BiS - if you have better substats on SR, then switch to it, but otherwise don't switch.
 

Liv

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Aug 20, 2019
1,459
This assumes that they clump together naturally. If they don't clump, it doesn't matter if you can freeze them or not. Venti's Ult cannot pull the enemies on 12-3, as far as I'm aware.
Huh I honestly thought it did pull them a little when they were frozen. But maybe you are right and I just got lucky with grouping then.. i almost want to do an abyss run to test it, but I'm too lazy to do it now. Does anyone know one way or the other?

But still, regardless of Venti grouping or not, freezing guarantees you won't miss her Ult if enemies move like you said before.
 

Fuu

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,173
Got my 36* on the Abyss today, didn't have time to do it earlier. The Hydro cube is the most annoying thing in this rotation. Makes me want to crown Raiden's burst so it's even more of a delete button against this type of stalling clownery.

100 wishes so far. Albedo could do me a solid and come early + be my first 50/50 win ever. Not counting on it though. I should explore the rest of Watatsumi and Tsurumi soon.
 

esserius

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,440
Huh I honestly thought it did pull them a little when they were frozen. But maybe you are right and I just got lucky with grouping then.. i almost want to do an abyss run to test it, but I'm too lazy to do it now. Does anyone know one way or the other?

But still, regardless of Venti grouping or not, freezing guarantees you won't miss her Ult if enemies move like you said before.
Here's a video


You can see Venti's Ult doesn't pull any of the enemies on 12-3-3
Freezing might change it, I don't know, but I strongly doubt freezing them reduces their weight and allows them to be pulled.

Freezing guarantees the Ult won't miss if you're keeping up hydro application, but it's relatively rare for it to miss when it's already hitting an enemy regardless. If it hits the enemy already, then it's not an issue, whether they are frozen or not, in almost all cases in my experience. It's when the Ult doesn't move in the direction you want, or enemies teleport out of it during the move's start up (which can happen even if they're frozen due the animation's length).
 

Deleted member 1594

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,762
Spend months farming emblem of fate for 3 characters. Get a decent shimenawa set in the process. My set just now got better than my old 2CW/2WT set. I still don't love shimenawa, but for charge attacks it out damages even a 4CW set. You do less bursts though, and they won't hit as hard because shimemawa doesn't have any bonuses that affect your burst damage.

Also triple crown her.

Then give her Thoma, Xingqiu, and Kazuha/Sucrose.
 

esserius

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,440
Here's a showcase of a mid-investment Hu Tao. The Xingqiu in this video is fairly stacked, but the rest look like mid-investment level characters as well. The player does have C1 but is using jump cancels instead, simply to show the effectiveness of jump cancels.



I did learn some things about how the grouping of the enemies in 12-3-3 works, so helpful if you're having trouble there too.
 

Deleted member 36578

Dec 21, 2017
26,561
Spend months farming emblem of fate for 3 characters. Get a decent shimenawa set in the process. My set just now got better than my old 2CW/2WT set. I still don't love shimenawa, but for charge attacks it out damages even a 4CW set. You do less bursts though, and they won't hit as hard because shimemawa doesn't have any bonuses that affect your burst damage.

Also triple crown her.

Then give her Thoma, Xingqiu, and Kazuha/Sucrose.
When you say decent set.... What are we talking here? What stats on artifacts would you consider decent? I ask because I have great stats on my artifacts with her and don't come anywhere near 100k charge attacks. My talents are 7, 8 and 7 though.
 

blackw0lf48

Member
Jan 2, 2019
3,314
Does the energy recharge stat just affect how much energy the character with the stat gains? Or does it affect how much any character would gain from a particle created by the person with the stat?

For example if I've got 175% on Diona, would Ayaka gain more energy from particles created by Diona that Ayaka picks up, or it doesn't make a difference?
 

Shryke

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,795
Yeah the problem of getting a new character is the leveling them up from 0. It's not even the grind that gets me... it's the running out of resin D:
 
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