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Mass Effect

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 31, 2017
16,921
Eh, it is true though. I didn't care for PCs but I started building one and watched an amazing amount of PC Gaming related YT channels. The only decent one I found that wasn't filled with edgy and completely unnecessary shots at consoles or Apple is Jays2Cents and Optimum, which is amazing.

PC Gaming channels often go after consoles or Apple to pander to their audiences. Even Jays non-RGB video got thousands of dislikes, it's sitting at around 50%. Because he made a PC with no RGBs as a joke. Jays and Optimum is the only channels I found who truly only care about PC Gaming and don't do this.

It's a huge turnoff for me. Especially because I have been using consoles for the past 18 years and also Apple stuff for the past 10. When they take these shots they are often wrong. And I mean really, really wrong. But then again they get up on the high horse about PCs and sprout bullshit about everything else when they are clearly clueless. Linus is probably the worst offender. Some of his takes on Apple are just so bad.

They don't do as much as they used to anymore, but DigitalFoundry was secretly one of the best PC gaming channels on Youtube a few years ago -- and without the whole "PC vs Console" nonsense that's so common among other PC channels.

I mean they're still great, but they don't do the hardware side as much. Obviously Alex's coverage of games on PC is top notch still.
 
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Timu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,745
we just got a stimulus, they're never going to stop the "build a $600 gaming rig today!" videos.

PC gaming YouTube is so obnoxious. Remember when they just harped on a bad Verge PC building guide video for like half a year? Fun times
Ha, I remember that video, I still can't believe it to this day.
 

Terbinator

Member
Oct 29, 2017
10,323
Absolutely not.

This comparison is only running games at 1080p, and is ignoring the 5.5 GB/s custom NVME SSD in the PS5.

A PCIE 4.0 SSD, a better GPU to run games at higher resolution, and an 8 core CPU will absolutely drive the price of a PC well above $500.
TBH going for a PCIe 4 driver over Gen 3 would push the cost up for no appreciable difference.
 

jfkgoblue

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,650
I will never understand why GN make their videos 5x longer than they need to be...

Does this price include the cost of a monitor, mouse, keyboard, speakers, and OS? PC/console price comparisons that don't include those items really annoy me (and I say this as a PC gamer). The average consumer already has a TV, and a console purchase comes with a controller included, so they'd be all set. The average consumer does not have a desktop, but a laptop or tablet, and so the price of desktop parts alone (even if they were savvy enough to build said desktop themselves, which is another matter) is already an argument made in bad faith.
Yeah absolutely nothing beats a console price/performance. My PS5 cost me $500, no extra purchase necessary. My PC(which is granted, high end with an intel 10850k and 3080) cost me $2500 just for the PC. Then I had to buy peripherals and a decent 1440/144 monitor and my total cost was up over 3 grand.

Honestly price comparisons between PC and consoles are always disingenuous because you don't buy PCs to just match or slightly exceed console specs, you buy a PC because you want to have better specs.
 

maximumzero

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,014
New Orleans, LA
This video seems a bit moot considering buying even a 1060 at MSRP is difficult-to-impossible right now and as far as I can tell the 3300x may as well not even exist.

Edit: Holy shit, the cheapest 1060 on PCPartPicker is $411.63, that's somehow even worse than I could have imagined.
 

NaDannMaGoGo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,008
This video seems a bit moot considering buying even a 1060 at MSRP is difficult-to-impossible right now and as far as I can tell the 3300x may as well not even exist.

Edit: Holy shit, the cheapest 1060 on PCPartPicker is $411.63, that's somehow even worse than I could have imagined.

Yeah, that video just doesn't work from so many angles.

When even Steve says that you can't really draw conclusive results from the stuff you really have to ask why he'd even make a video with quite the brazen title and statements at all then.

But it's guaranteed that the follow-up video, which I expect to be coming up rather soon, he'll point that out as his defense. "Y'all ignorant viewers, I said it isn't really conclusive myself! Tsktsk"
 

NoctisLC

Member
Jun 5, 2018
1,401
Yeah absolutely nothing beats a console price/performance. My PS5 cost me $500, no extra purchase necessary. My PC(which is granted, high end with an intel 10850k and 3080) cost me $2500 just for the PC. Then I had to buy peripherals and a decent 1440/144 monitor and my total cost was up over 3 grand.

Honestly price comparisons between PC and consoles are always disingenuous because you don't buy PCs to just match or slightly exceed console specs, you buy a PC because you want to have better specs.

I mean if you're gonna include the monitor then should add in TV cost for the PS5.
 

Plum

Member
May 31, 2018
17,328
I will never understand why GN make their videos 5x longer than they need to be...

Does this price include the cost of a monitor, mouse, keyboard, speakers, and OS? PC/console price comparisons that don't include those items really annoy me (and I say this as a PC gamer). The average consumer already has a TV, and a console purchase comes with a controller included, so they'd be all set. The average consumer does not have a desktop, but a laptop or tablet, and so the price of desktop parts alone (even if they were savvy enough to build said desktop themselves, which is another matter) is already an argument made in bad faith.

I think it's because, when you've owned desktop PCs for a significant chunk of your life, it's hard to recognise that the majority of people literally have no use for them outside of gaming. Whilst that may have changed a bit with work-from-home stuff (even then a lot of professionals use Macs instead of PCs), the days of dedicated PCs monitor, mouse and keyboard within people's homes being the primary method of computing are long since gone.

As such the primary value proposition of gaming-spec PCs for most people is just that: gaming. It's not the fact that a PC can render Vegas Pro files at lightning-fast speeds or render 3D models in blender without crashing too much, and it's definitely not the fact that a PC can do the web-browsing and word processing that a $200 Chromebook can. Saying that a PC's ability to run Word is a bonus in 2020 is like saying that one should consider Super Mario Bros. on the Nintendo Switch a meaningful addition to that console's library.

I mean if you're gonna include the monitor then should add in TV cost for the PS5.

The vast, vast majority of households in most developed nations have some form of television, and if they don't then the likelihood that they'd be able to put down $500 on any gaming device is minimal. That's because, well, they can't even afford a TV to play it on.

Whilst I can't find any concrete data on it, I'm going to bet that the vast majority of households don't just have a monitor lying around, especially one that can even come close to competing with the specifications of a TV at the same price point. Monitors have a significantly lower number of use-cases than TVs within a home environment, so if one wants to buy something that works best with monitors then they're more-than-likely going to have to buy a monitor themselves.
 

hikarutilmitt

"This guy are sick"
Member
Dec 16, 2017
11,520
1) I dunno if these will ever stop. We've been seeing them since the PS360 era lightly, but way more heavily around the PS4/XBO launch, then again at PS4Pro, then AGAIN at XBOX and now with the PS5 (but strangely not XSX?). It's honestly annoying at this point. Thank goodness it's just around system launches and refreshes.

2) It's not a "$500 PC" build, as they only talked about the CPU and GPU (unless I missed it). They gave zero specs for the other components such as amount of RAM, motherboard used or the storage, and these are not nonzero factors when considering building a PC, even with leftover parts. Other videos in the past have at least gone as low as they could to bargain basement the prices on parts from ebay and crap to justify them hitting the price equivalence, but this reeks of agenda/fanboyism/PCMR.

I mean, I'm a relatively recent watcher of GN's videos and they're usually informative or worth discussing, but this one... ehhhhhhhh. His closing statements were kind a middle finger to console gamers, for sure, since what's in the PS5 (and XSX) isn't exactly a low tier PC from 5 years ago...
 

Resident Guru

Member
Oct 28, 2017
919
I think it's because, when you've owned desktop PCs for a significant chunk of your life, it's hard to recognise that the majority of people literally have no use for them outside of gaming. Whilst that may have changed a bit with work-from-home stuff (even then a lot of professionals use Macs instead of PCs), the days of dedicated PCs monitor, mouse and keyboard within people's homes being the primary method of computing are long since gone.

As such the primary value proposition of gaming-spec PCs for most people is just that: gaming. It's not the fact that a PC can render Vegas Pro files at lightning-fast speeds or render 3D models in blender without crashing too much, and it's definitely not the fact that a PC can do the web-browsing and word processing that a $200 Chromebook can. Saying that a PC's ability to run Word is a bonus in 2020 is like saying that one should consider Super Mario Bros. on the Nintendo Switch a meaningful addition to that console's library.



The vast, vast majority of households in most developed nations have some form of television, and if they don't then the likelihood that they'd be able to put down $500 on any gaming device is minimal. That's because, well, they can't even afford a TV to play it on.

Whilst I can't find any concrete data on it, I'm going to bet that the vast majority of households don't just have a monitor lying around, especially one that can even come close to competing with the specifications of a TV at the same price point. Monitors have a significantly lower number of use-cases than TVs within a home environment, so if one wants to buy something that works best with monitors then they're more-than-likely going to have to buy a monitor themselves.
I have my PC connected to my OLED TV. Who said you had to have a monitor to be a PC gamer?
 

Plum

Member
May 31, 2018
17,328
I have my PC connected to my OLED TV. Who said you had to have a monitor to be a PC gamer?

Nobody, but connecting a PC to a TV creates its own set of problems that connecting it to a monitor simply doesn't have. These include:

1) Space concerns. Cheap PCs are not small PCs and even the massive PS5 is going to fit in more people's living room setups than a typical Mid-Tower case
2) Control concerns. Keyboard + Mouse is both uncomfortable and unweildy to use in a typical living room setup; you either need long-ass wires or wireless solutions, both of which come with their own problems and costs
3) Bigger TV = less PPI = lower resolutions are more noticeable., so your $500 "CONSOLE KILLER!!!!" PC will not be able to compete with a PS5 that will likely not be running any major releases below 1440p for its entire run. This is made especially bad on the relatively worse PCs that someone wanting a "CONSOLE KILLER!!!" PC could afford;.

I've just spent most of the last year dealing with these issues in numerous ways when it comes to my own gaming PC on my own OLED TV, and that's with a PC that far exceeds the power of Gamer Nexus'

Of course this is all ignoring the elephant in the room that is how, if you're so price-limited that you can't even get a $100 monitor to go with your gaming PC, it's probably not a financially-wise decision to buy a PC that is outdated on release instead of a console that is guaranteed to work for an entire generation (with backwards compatibility for the entire previous one).
 

Genio88

Banned
Jun 4, 2018
964
I just watched it and even if i am a PC only gamer with rtx 3070 i have to say that it makes no sense, he is saying that a Ps5 is equal to a pc with gtx 1060 6gb and low end Ryzen...and to prove that he uses only 3 last gen games with their 120fps patches, is he for real? Try to run AC Valhalla with PS5 settings on that PC or even Cod, Horizon Zero Dawn, Watch Dog Legion etc...It's true that PS5 can't compete with a rtx 3070 or Ryzen 3600 but not that it's equal to a 1060 or that you can get the same PS5 experience with that PC
 

Rick44-4

Member
Oct 8, 2020
1,324
Damm his conclusion at 32:41 is harsh when you look at the limited amount of games he tested.
"Equivalent to a mid to high end gaming pc from about 5 years ago, that's where this thing is"

Alright, fair enough those 120 fps did not look top tier on PS5 looking at his compairson, but that's just based on 3 games for one specific scenario (high framerate) .

Lol
This guy must be pulling people's leg with that statement lmao, mid range pc from 5 years ago, now that's something lol.
 

Rylen

Member
Feb 5, 2019
472
Nobody, but connecting a PC to a TV creates its own set of problems that connecting it to a monitor simply doesn't have. These include:

1) Space concerns. Cheap PCs are not small PCs and even the massive PS5 is going to fit in more people's living room setups than a typical Mid-Tower case
2) Control concerns. Keyboard + Mouse is both uncomfortable and unweildy to use in a typical living room setup; you either need long-ass wires or wireless solutions, both of which come with their own problems and costs
3) Bigger TV = less PPI = lower resolutions are more noticeable., so your $500 "CONSOLE KILLER!!!!" PC will not be able to compete with a PS5 that will likely not be running any major releases below 1440p for its entire run. This is made especially bad on the relatively worse PCs that someone wanting a "CONSOLE KILLER!!!" PC could afford;.

I've just spent most of the last year dealing with these issues in numerous ways when it comes to my own gaming PC on my own OLED TV, and that's with a PC that far exceeds the power of Gamer Nexus'

Of course this is all ignoring the elephant in the room that is how, if you're so price-limited that you can't even get a $100 monitor to go with your gaming PC, it's probably not a financially-wise decision to buy a PC that is outdated on release instead of a console that is guaranteed to work for an entire generation (with backwards compatibility for the entire previous one).

Space concerns? I have a huge Air540 inside my AV Cabinet, no space concern.

I use a controller

PPI is pointless without taking into account viewing distance. Each pixel can and will appear smaller or larger depending on viewing distance
 

Rylen

Member
Feb 5, 2019
472
I just watched it and even if i am a PC only gamer with rtx 3070 i have to say that it makes no sense, he is saying that a Ps5 is equal to a pc with gtx 1060 6gb and low end Ryzen...and to prove that he uses only 3 last gen games with their 120fps patches, is he for real? Try to run AC Valhalla with PS5 settings on that PC or even Cod, Horizon Zero Dawn, Watch Dog Legion etc...It's true that PS5 can't compete with a rtx 3070 or Ryzen 3600 but not that it's equal to a 1060 or that you can get the same PS5 experience with that PC

he chose the worst mode in DMC5 to use as well. The native 4K mode still averages 80-90 FPS
 

Spoit

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,067
To be fair, while consoles aren't running games at 1080p, they're not really running at 4k either. You'd need to do a deep dive, and probably ini edits, to really get console equivalent settings
 

Aztechnology

Community Resettler
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
14,168
Yeah absolutely nothing beats a console price/performance. My PS5 cost me $500, no extra purchase necessary. My PC(which is granted, high end with an intel 10850k and 3080) cost me $2500 just for the PC. Then I had to buy peripherals and a decent 1440/144 monitor and my total cost was up over 3 grand.

Honestly price comparisons between PC and consoles are always disingenuous because you don't buy PCs to just match or slightly exceed console specs, you buy a PC because you want to have better specs.
Yes you don't need a screen for a console. Also no you're categorically wrong. The vast majority of Pc gamers don't run super expensive systems. They're budget gamers.

This video might not be the best, but people are being very disingenuous.



I agree you need to tack on at least $50 for a decent mouse/keyboard though. But also factor additional costs like online subs, increased cost of games etc. and that's offset quickly.

This video is far from being a good comparison, but people are being very disingenuous about the who and what of Pc gaming.
 
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Scarface

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,124
Canada
Yeah absolutely nothing beats a console price/performance. My PS5 cost me $500, no extra purchase necessary. My PC(which is granted, high end with an intel 10850k and 3080) cost me $2500 just for the PC. Then I had to buy peripherals and a decent 1440/144 monitor and my total cost was up over 3 grand.

Honestly price comparisons between PC and consoles are always disingenuous because you don't buy PCs to just match or slightly exceed console specs, you buy a PC because you want to have better specs.

no one ever accounts for the cost of the TV. a decent tv isnt cheap.
 

Deleted member 14089

Oct 27, 2017
6,264
This guy must be pulling people's leg with that statement lmao, mid range pc from 5 years ago, now that's something lol.

That whole conclusion segment is one rollercoaster 🤣 . He's trolling or something idk.

3 of the games he chose were already extensively discussed by DF, so I guess we didn't learn new things regarding that.

Eitherway it's an endless discussion and a waste of energy :p.
 

JigglesBunny

Prophet of Truth
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
31,276
Chicago
Yeah, this video holds very little water for a lot of reasons. The comparisons are incredibly cherry picked, the PS5 can be had for $400 with the digital edition and you could never build a comparable machine at that price point and the machine that is used in this video is probably not really going to be available for $500 anyways.

Not really a strong case being made here.
 

bubblegumcorp

Member
Jul 29, 2020
63
he chose the worst mode in DMC5 to use as well. The native 4K mode still averages 80-90 FPS
Of course the 4k mode averages that much. In 120 fps mode the game runs at 3840x2160 interlaced, which is still very demanding, and definitely much more demanding than even 1440p. I fully believe GN did this intentional to get clicks, and even if they didn't, there's no excuse whatsoever when you can search on Google at what res these games run so you can cross reference. And I can't wait for the follow-up video in which Steve is undoubtedly gonna say that no one really knows at what res these games run and that they chose a realistic resolution or some shit like that to save face. I really hope I'm wrong, but GN is turning into LTT2 at this point so smugness is all I'm expecting. Which is a damn shame, because that video might mislead someone into buying hardware that they think is capable of the experience that they want, when it's clearly not.
 

shadow2810

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,260
And this post is hilarious for people who actually own that console. I'm pretty sure they manufactured more DEs than Nvidia did with 3xxx FE cards. So they don't exist too, right?

If Sony makes one PS5 console and sells it for $1 then PS5 is now a "$1 console" right? Production number doesn't matter, cheapest console in the world!

This video seems a bit moot considering buying even a 1060 at MSRP is difficult-to-impossible right now and as far as I can tell the 3300x may as well not even exist.

Edit: Holy shit, the cheapest 1060 on PCPartPicker is $411.63, that's somehow even worse than I could have imagined.
the same applies to PS5, as if you can easily buy one at MSRP right now.
 

Plum

Member
May 31, 2018
17,328
Space concerns? I have a huge Air540 inside my AV Cabinet, no space concern.

I use a controller

PPI is pointless without taking into account viewing distance. Each pixel can and will appear smaller or larger depending on viewing distance

"My particular setup is fine," says nothing about everyone else's. My particular setup wasn't fine and removing the massive PC tower from my room helped with space quite a bit; I can imagine a lot of people are in similar situations.

PCs don't come with controllers, so that's an extra expense on top of the $500. Of course there's also the fact that you can't entirely control a PC with a controller, and even if you 100% can (I've tried and it's cumbersome at the absolute best of times) you're fucked in any kind of shooter that doesn't support controller-only lobbies.

As for PPI: Viewing distance does matter, yes, but 1080p is going to look blurry on any 4K set in most typical viewing distances unless your TV is tiny by today's standards. There's a reason that both Sony, Microsoft and seemingly Nintendo now as well (if rumours are true) are going all-in on 4K despite 1080p supposedly being 'just as good.'

no one ever accounts for the cost of the TV. a decent tv isnt cheap.

That's because 95% of households own a TV already. Those that don't either have no need for one, or can't afford one; neither of which exactly put them in the market for $500 gaming machines.
 

Rylen

Member
Feb 5, 2019
472
This right here. My PC sits on my stand behind my TV.
Can't even see mine

wBhukl6.jpg

8xJeRSo.jpg
 

BeI

Member
Dec 9, 2017
6,023
Would a comparison based around viewing distance and visual acuity have been a better idea? This chart comes to mind:

viewing-distance-tv-monitor-hd-4k-2a9cf0725816d6c7-800x450.png


And the calculator on their site gives out the following visual acuity distances (beyond which you likely cannot discern between individual pixels):

24" 1080p monitor: 96cm
55" 4k TV: 114cm
65" 4k TV: 131cm

Perhaps if the majority of pc players with 1080p monitors are playing at a similar distance, the perceived image quality isn't appreciably worse when playing at 1080p on that monitor compared to 4k on a much larger TV due to viewing distance?
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,086
For 4K this is way more accurate than Steve's assessment (Gamer Nexus)


WOzNYTv.jpg

iKg7U9J.jpg

oNJnOVS.jpg
You could probably trim off $150 from this build (3060 Ti should be $400, don't really need extra case fans, and the price of the motherboard shouldn't really be that close the the CPU, probably another $150 off once the 3050 Ti is announced), but the point does still stand. This console gen has really good price-perf for gaming, and that's before considering scarcity in the market.
I feel like PS5s are generally easier to acquire.
As somebody who has gotten multiple Ampere GPUs, PS5s, and a Zen 3 processor, this is most certainly not true. The PS5 is insanely hard to get unless you get lucky in a Direct queue, and the DE may as well not exist.
Isn't the ps5 gddr6?
GDDR is VRAM, the kind a GPU uses, while DDR is DRAM, the sticks you click into your motherboard. IDK what DRAM the PS5 uses, if any, but all Ampere cards use GDDR6 VRAM or better (not that it actually matters that much).
 

Decarb

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,678
If Sony makes one PS5 console and sells it for $1 then PS5 is now a "$1 console" right? Production number doesn't matter, cheapest console in the world!
Sure, if they made 2 million consoles and sold it for $1 then its a $1 console. 2 million is certainly higher than whatever number of 3xxx FE cards Nvidia managed to make. You guys make the DE sound like its some ultra rare single run special edition.
 

shadow2810

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,260
Sure, if they made 2 million consoles and sold it for $1 then its a $1 console. 2 million is certainly higher than whatever number of 3xxx FE cards Nvidia managed to make. You guys make the DE sound like its some ultra rare single run special edition.
You understand you are comparing a product with a variant, selling at lower price point in extremely limited quantity, against a single line product with fixed MSRP right?
 

Decarb

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,678
You understand you are comparing a product with a variant, selling at lower price point in extremely limited quantity, against a single line product with fixed MSRP right?
Hasn't stopped people from calling them a $700 and $500 cards. The fact that they're extremely limited and been perpetually OOS, and yet still quoted at those prices by all the media tells you how absurd it is to deny the $400 price point of PS5.
Lol at people saying that the PS5 price is 500 dollars not 400 dollars. Folks with PS5 DEs just hallucinating.
Its truly bizarre.
 

shadow2810

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,260
Hasn't stopped people from calling them a $700 and $500 cards. The fact that they're extremely limited and been perpetually OOS, and yet still quoted at those prices by all the media tells you how absurd it is to deny the $400 price point of PS5.
Read my post again. Scalper price is irrelevant.
 

Adventureracing

The Fallen
Nov 7, 2017
8,071
Yeah absolutely nothing beats a console price/performance. My PS5 cost me $500, no extra purchase necessary. My PC(which is granted, high end with an intel 10850k and 3080) cost me $2500 just for the PC. Then I had to buy peripherals and a decent 1440/144 monitor and my total cost was up over 3 grand.

Honestly price comparisons between PC and consoles are always disingenuous because you don't buy PCs to just match or slightly exceed console specs, you buy a PC because you want to have better specs.

The opposite is true for me. I have a PC for work as well which means it provides far more utility for me than just games. I'm happy spending a little more on my PC even if it doesn't match consoles.

Also your last statement isn't always true, not all of us play PC for the specs.
 

horkrux

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,788
How bizarre.

I'm reminded of a Linus video where they pitted the PS4 against a GTX 480.